![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 31 to 55 of 55. Go back in thread:
Posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 23:29:59
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by ryanz on January 17, 2007, at 22:20:42
> > Yes I have read what he had to say; I think it best that I stop posting on this topic as it is starting to upset me that everyone seems to want to convince me that I should not do ECT. I have read a lot more than you realize - I have talked to people on the etc.org boards, and frankly some of them have been more supportive than anyone here in spite of their difficulties. Some are vehemently opposed to ECT and were significantly damaged. Some have problems but are supportive. Some have had only minor or insignificant memory impairments. I have read all sorts of things, and as I said, I have also critically evaluated lots of journal articles on the subject. I know the risks, and it is up to me what I should do. I am trying other things. You have to live with yourself and your decisions, and I have to live with mine. I am truely sorry I ever posted on the subject as it hurts me that I may do something that is so disapproved of by most everyone here.
> >
> > I wish you all well with your decisions, and please let me now make mine. Thank you.
> >
> > Karen44
> >
>
> Hey: you posted "publicly" not only here but elsewhere such as ect.org asking people's opinions about ECT and their experiences with ECT. You've been soliciting this information while at times often lecturing to others about ECT. You've made it very clear in multiple postings now that you've been trying to quote "educate yourself" and read as much as you can about ECT before making your decision.
>
> All I did was post a simple link to a scientific paper that many people do not know about, including psychiatrists who conduct ECT.
>
> I never made any personal comments at all regarding my opinion or my own experience with ECT on this board, nor did I ever say that you should or should not have ECT. I posted the link because you've been posting your questions and concerns about ECT all over the web. If you don't want people posting links to scientific papers, etc, then by all means do not solicit opinions in the future by posting all over the web.
>
> And, btw, you are not the only one here having serious difficulties with life-threatening depression, and contrary to your comments, I think people 'have' been supportive of you here. Apparently, your idea of support is not to hear other struggling persons' honest opinions and experiences as to your type of concerns and questions, but rather I guess you just wanted responses that amount to, "don't worry, be happy!"
>
> Whatever route you choose in addressing your depression, I wish you the best.Yes I did initially ask for opinions but not for over and over and over and over. I find your post very nasty and cruel. You do not know me at all,and for you to assume I want responses that indicate "don't worry, be happy" is the height of insult. I view your whole post as accusatory and hostile, and then you end with "I wish you the best." How passive-aggressive is that.
Karen44
Posted by ryanz on January 18, 2007, at 0:12:58
In reply to PLEASE tell me we have not resorted to this., posted by halcyondaze on January 17, 2007, at 22:04:57
> Quoting Peter Breggin on THIS board?
I did not "quote" anyone, nor did I post any of my own thoughts and comments pertaining to it. And just who are you to decide what information is mentioned on this board, particularly when it pertains to a published scientific paper in a medical journal?
>
> Come on.That's your own personal opinion of Breggin which some share and some do not. One of the reasons why this paper is relevant is because he lists a lot of negative findings by other ECT researchers that's been swept under the rug or forgotten about. Even if one does not like Breggin himself, the mere listing of references to negative studies on ECT is by itself enough to make the paper valuable.
The same goes with Sackeim and colleagues whom some respect and some hate. Sackeim admitted in video testimony to receiving money from the manufacturer of shock devices and providing advice to them at the same time he was receiving grant money from the government to investigate potential damage from ECT, while not publicly disclosing this in violation of the law and in violation of the honor code followed by researchers who submit entries to medical journals. Nevertheless, I posted a link to information from him as well recently. Sackeim's studies are referenced by the APA.
> Let's consider the source here.
People can read and decide for themselves whether a particular article is of value or not and compare it with other information on their own. They do not need you to do it for them. And that's the idea. There will be no consensus here or anywhere where else when it comes to papers by well-known major ECT opponents like Breggin, or to historical proponents like Fink and Sackeim. People should be able to read the controversial positions by well-known voices from both sides along with other information.
> I guess you're prepared to stop all of your > psychiatric medication, as he advocates?
All I did was post a URL linking to a published scientific paper that he authored. That's it. The only thing in my posting was a URL. I served neither as a an advocate or as an opponent to his views. Stop misrepresenting.
And if Breggin feels that antidepressant medications are overmarketed, overprescribed and often inappropriate for many of the millions of people taking these drugs, then people have a right to know about the position he is taking and his reasons for this regardless of whether you or I or anyone else disagrees with position. He did, afterall, write a book about it which was talked about on major news networks and he is a very well-known and experienced psychiatrist and researcher who is entitled to his opinion and the right to share his opinion and reasoning with others.
>I am truly ashamed to be posting here if this is >the kind of standard we are now holding >ourselves to
Well, feel free to stop posting. I won't argue with you on that, especially if you're going to be incredibly rude along with misrepresenting the actions and intentions of others. I did absolutely nothing to deserve being treated this way in thread. All I did was post a simple URL to a published medical study for purposes of sharing information after which I was personally attacked by you and Karen. I never even wrote about my personal opinion on ECT or my personal experience with it on this board.
The people who behaved inappropriately in this thread are you and Karen, and I offer no apology to her or to you for posting posting a simple html link to a published medical paper.
Posted by mindevolution on January 18, 2007, at 3:29:01
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » ryanz, posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 23:29:59
Yes I did initially ask for opinions but not for over and over and over and over. I find your post very nasty and cruel. You do not know me at all,and for you to assume I want responses that indicate "don't worry, be happy" is the height of insult. I view your whole post as accusatory and hostile, and then you end with "I wish you the best." How passive-aggressive is that.
Karen44I think you were supported by many of the people here, and got some of the highest quality responses that i have seen. i am sorry you didn't hear exactly what you wanted, but people here do often have decades of experience with all manner of mental health treatments.
most importantly you indicated the level of your intellectual accomplishments was of a very high standard, and quite rightly many people warned you of the impact that passing electricity through your brain can have on all aspects of intellectual performance (it is after all essentiallly random brain damage)
that said, it may be that imparing one's brain so much that one no longer notices one's symptoms might be a feasible option of last resort, but that is what it is, a brain damaging treatment of last resort, unless you also wish to consider lobotomy, which is still available for a consenting adult in distress.
i think the general consensus was to exhaust all other less damaging alternatives first.
although i understand it may well be difficult to rate each treatment in terms of its potential to cause damage, and I personally think that a register may help consumers consider the risks of various treatment, but that's another story.
i wish you well and bonne chance in making a decision that is suitable for you. btw have you tried the dopamine agonists? perhaps you may enjoy this reference to consider some further alternatives? [xxx]
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 8:23:41
In reply to Re: PLEASE tell me we have not resorted to this., posted by ryanz on January 18, 2007, at 0:12:58
> > Quoting Peter Breggin on THIS board?
>
> I did not "quote" anyone, nor did I post any of my own thoughts and comments pertaining to it. And just who are you to decide what information is mentioned on this board, particularly when it pertains to a published scientific paper in a medical journal?
>
> >
> > Come on.
>
> That's your own personal opinion of Breggin which some share and some do not. One of the reasons why this paper is relevant is because he lists a lot of negative findings by other ECT researchers that's been swept under the rug or forgotten about. Even if one does not like Breggin himself, the mere listing of references to negative studies on ECT is by itself enough to make the paper valuable.
>
> The same goes with Sackeim and colleagues whom some respect and some hate. Sackeim admitted in video testimony to receiving money from the manufacturer of shock devices and providing advice to them at the same time he was receiving grant money from the government to investigate potential damage from ECT, while not publicly disclosing this in violation of the law and in violation of the honor code followed by researchers who submit entries to medical journals. Nevertheless, I posted a link to information from him as well recently. Sackeim's studies are referenced by the APA.
>
> > Let's consider the source here.
>
> People can read and decide for themselves whether a particular article is of value or not and compare it with other information on their own. They do not need you to do it for them. And that's the idea. There will be no consensus here or anywhere where else when it comes to papers by well-known major ECT opponents like Breggin, or to historical proponents like Fink and Sackeim. People should be able to read the controversial positions by well-known voices from both sides along with other information.
>
> > I guess you're prepared to stop all of your > psychiatric medication, as he advocates?
>
> All I did was post a URL linking to a published scientific paper that he authored. That's it. The only thing in my posting was a URL. I served neither as a an advocate or as an opponent to his views. Stop misrepresenting.
>
> And if Breggin feels that antidepressant medications are overmarketed, overprescribed and often inappropriate for many of the millions of people taking these drugs, then people have a right to know about the position he is taking and his reasons for this regardless of whether you or I or anyone else disagrees with position. He did, afterall, write a book about it which was talked about on major news networks and he is a very well-known and experienced psychiatrist and researcher who is entitled to his opinion and the right to share his opinion and reasoning with others.
>
> >I am truly ashamed to be posting here if this is >the kind of standard we are now holding >ourselves to
>
> Well, feel free to stop posting. I won't argue with you on that, especially if you're going to be incredibly rude along with misrepresenting the actions and intentions of others. I did absolutely nothing to deserve being treated this way in thread. All I did was post a simple URL to a published medical study for purposes of sharing information after which I was personally attacked by you and Karen. I never even wrote about my personal opinion on ECT or my personal experience with it on this board.
>
> The people who behaved inappropriately in this thread are you and Karen, and I offer no apology to her or to you for posting posting a simple html link to a published medical paper.DR. BOB; WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU; FIRST IN RESPONSE TO MY POST AND NOW THIS!!
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 8:34:33
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by mindevolution on January 18, 2007, at 3:29:01
I did not mean to say people have not been supportive; many have. In the past couple of days it has seemed that more people have started to be negative and no postives. I could be wrong as my depression is much worse now. I think if I go back for the last few days, I will find more negatives. Blueberry's case I have known about for some time, and I am truely sorry about what happened to him. He should not have gotten bilateral, and they should not have continued beyond the 4 or 6. He apparently had some doctor who has a protocol that he follows with most everyone, and I have just said that if I do ECT, I don't want someone like that.
I suppose now that one or two people are going to post and say I thought you were leaving the list. I am not the only one now who has felt pressured to leave and now a direct suggestion to someone else to just leave. This is not negative; it is plain destructive. I wish Dr. Bob would weigh in on this.
My initial requests were for feedback and to share what I had learned from the literature and elsewher. Ihave been very ambivalent about ECT. So, it was good to hear both sides. I am still ambivalent and yet also more depressed. I will go and talk to the two ECT docs and hopefully I will learn one or both can be flexible with what they do. Do I know the risks? Unfortunately, yes, all too well. I had not seen the article you sent, and so I very much appreciate it. I guess that is it for now. Must stop responding to anyone as I am at work and will get into trouble if I do much of this during work hours.
Karen44
Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 12:57:15
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by ryanz on January 17, 2007, at 22:20:42
>
> You've been soliciting this information while at times often lecturing to others about ECT.
>
>
> And, btw, you are not the only one here having serious difficulties with life-threatening depression, and contrary to your comments, I think people 'have' been supportive of you here. Apparently, your idea of support is not to hear other struggling persons' honest opinions and experiences as to your type of concerns and questions, but rather I guess you just wanted responses that amount to, "don't worry, be happy!"
>Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Thank you,
ClearSkies, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 13:04:06
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » ryanz, posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 23:29:59
> Yes I did initially ask for opinions but not for over and over and over and over. I find your post very nasty and cruel. You do not know me at all,and for you to assume I want responses that indicate "don't worry, be happy" is the height of insult. I view your whole post as accusatory and hostile, and then you end with "I wish you the best." How passive-aggressive is that.
>
> Karen44Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Thanks,
ClearSkies, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by danr49 on January 18, 2007, at 13:32:20
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by Karen44 on January 17, 2007, at 21:31:31
> > Karen, here's something you might want to read if you have not already:
> >
> > http://www.breggin.com/Electroshockscientific.pdf
> >
> >
>
> Yes I have read what he had to say; I think it best that I stop posting on this topic as it is starting to upset me that everyone seems to want to convince me that I should not do ECT. I have read a lot more than you realize - I have talked to people on the etc.org boards, and frankly some of them have been more supportive than anyone here in spite of their difficulties. Some are vehemently opposed to ECT and were significantly damaged. Some have problems but are supportive. Some have had only minor or insignificant memory impairments. I have read all sorts of things, and as I said, I have also critically evaluated lots of journal articles on the subject. I know the risks, and it is up to me what I should do. I am trying other things. You have to live with yourself and your decisions, and I have to live with mine. I am truely sorry I ever posted on the subject as it hurts me that I may do something that is so disapproved of by most everyone here.
>
> I wish you all well with your decisions, and please let me now make mine. Thank you.
>
> Karen44
>
Honestly, Karen. Could you be anymore offensive?-Dan
Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 14:03:51
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by danr49 on January 18, 2007, at 13:32:20
>
> Honestly, Karen. Could you be anymore offensive?
>
> -Dan
Welcome to Psycho Babble, Dan. The idea of this site is support and education. To that end, we ask that you please don't post anything that would lead someone to feel accused or put down.Please take a moment to read the FAQ section of this site. The guidelines for civility can be found there.
Thanks,
ClearSkies, acting as a friendly neighbourhood poster.
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 18:57:00
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by mindevolution on January 18, 2007, at 3:29:01
If you read on another thread you will see that I have thanked others for their support. I have not attacked anyone personally. I have, however, responded to personal attacks. I don't understand the over-the-board hostility.
Karen44
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 19:01:37
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » danr49, posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 14:03:51
I guess I can't respond when people send me nasty posts, Clearskies. So I will not say anything anymore even if someone attacks me. To respond to attacks is obviously not okay I guess.
Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 19:54:52
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 19:01:37
> I guess I can't respond when people send me nasty posts, Clearskies. So I will not say anything anymore even if someone attacks me. To respond to attacks is obviously not okay I guess.
It's fine to respond to posts that upset us, but we have to civil ourselves. That's why I issued the "please be civil" to you. It was not a personal attack on my part; and, as you can see, I posted to you in the capacity of deputy for Dr. Bob.
Thank you,
ClearSkies
Posted by halcyondaze on January 18, 2007, at 20:09:04
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » Karen44, posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 19:54:52
... with the exception of a few of us, the people who post here do not work in psychiatry. The majority of the posters are not medical students, psychiatrists, or pharmacists. And the majority of the posters here are mentally ill themselves, and have had extensive experience as psychiatric patients. However, just like being a parent does not make one an expert on child development, being a psychiatric patient does not make one an expert in psychiatry.
I hope to see you post here and let us know how you're doing, Karen. I can tell that you are a very sensitive, caring soul and I wish you all the best in your journey out of hell.
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 20:12:20
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » Karen44, posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 19:54:52
> > I guess I can't respond when people send me nasty posts, Clearskies. So I will not say anything anymore even if someone attacks me. To respond to attacks is obviously not okay I guess.
>
> It's fine to respond to posts that upset us, but we have to civil ourselves. That's why I issued the "please be civil" to you. It was not a personal attack on my part; and, as you can see, I posted to you in the capacity of deputy for Dr. Bob.
>
> Thank you,
> ClearSkies
>
>
I wish you would have intervened sooner then, and I would not have felt the need to defend myself.Karen
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 20:30:47
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by mindevolution on January 18, 2007, at 3:29:01
> perhaps you may enjoy this reference to consider some further alternatives? [xxx]
FYI, that page links to online pharmacies that could be used to import into the US prescription medication without a prescription, and the idea here is not to exchange information like that.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by linkadge on January 18, 2007, at 20:34:47
In reply to Let's keep in mind ..., posted by halcyondaze on January 18, 2007, at 20:09:04
>The majority of the posters are not medical >students, psychiatrists, or pharmacists.
I would consider that *of advanage* if you are attempting to determine the validity of a particular treatment modality.
There a lot of health professionals that I believe are just *doing their jobs*. I'm sure if you got some of these health professionals a little tipsy, they'd tell you their true opinions on some of these drugs and treaments.
Could you imagine a pharmacist. "What, another ritalin prescription, don't these patients know they are essentially doing cocaine". They'd loose their job on the spot.
The "Professionals" simply state what they are taught.
There are various reasons why these people just "go with the flow" in order to reduce dissonance.
Just because doctors hand out drugs, doesn't mean they believe in them, or think they are safe, or effective etc.
I guess they figured with the SSRI's that they were safe enought that who cares if they don't work.
But, I am sure, for instance, that even such an experince as this board, has changed or moved Dr. Bob in a deep and profound way. I highly doubt he thinks of things the same as before he started this board.
That being said, he may (or may not) feel he has the freedom to express his 100% opinion on certain treatments.
There are probably doctors that give the go ahead for ECT, and then feel horrable inside for not saying or doing anything.
But the medical opinion on ECT is not unanimous. My uncle was a candidate and asked about 10 different doctors what they they thought. He said there was a huge devide.
Linkadge
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 20:35:44
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » ClearSkies, posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 20:12:20
> I wish you would have intervened sooner then, and I would not have felt the need to defend myself.
Sorry about not being here before. But it's offense, not defense, that's the issue...
Bob
Posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 20:54:35
In reply to Re: defending oneself, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2007, at 20:35:44
> > I wish you would have intervened sooner then, and I would not have felt the need to defend myself.
>
> Sorry about not being here before. But it's offense, not defense, that's the issue...
>
> BobAnd what about the "offense" of others????
Posted by ClearSkies on January 18, 2007, at 21:07:05
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » ClearSkies, posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 20:12:20
> > > I guess I can't respond when people send me nasty posts, Clearskies. So I will not say anything anymore even if someone attacks me. To respond to attacks is obviously not okay I guess.
> >
> > It's fine to respond to posts that upset us, but we have to civil ourselves. That's why I issued the "please be civil" to you. It was not a personal attack on my part; and, as you can see, I posted to you in the capacity of deputy for Dr. Bob.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > ClearSkies
> >
> >
> I wish you would have intervened sooner then, and I would not have felt the need to defend myself.
>
> Karen
>
>Karen I'm not on the boards at all times - there is a "notify the administrators" button that sends us immediate notification if you believe there is incivility going on.
That way one of us deputies can try to intervene more quickly.CS
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 19, 2007, at 10:49:46
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left?, posted by Karen44 on January 13, 2007, at 17:58:28
What about rTMS? At the moment, you can only get it "off-label" from Dr. Steven Best, near Chicago or Dr Mark Hutto of Atlanta, but FDA approval is expected very soon. I feel I am a veteran in a sense, having had it ten times from Dr. Hutto since 2003. I haven't had any side-effects at all, and although it hurts, one codeine helps enough. All of my depressive feelings disappear for several weeks, and then begin gradually returning. You drive in, have it, and drive out 20 minutes later- no cognitive side effects whatsoever. I took an initial course of it once daily for three weeks; for maintenance, I have 2-4 treatments (two a day, so it goes faster) every few months. It really helps! Because I had such a good response, my pdoc sent two other treatment-resistant patients to Dr. Hutto; they both had equally good responses. We all take medication, too, but not a lot: for me it's 600 mg. of Lithium and Cytomel. I think I am walking proof-four years worth of it anyway, that this is a very safe, effective treatment.
Posted by headcheese01 on January 19, 2007, at 12:50:36
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? Try VNS instead! » Karen44, posted by juanantoniod on January 16, 2007, at 17:16:43
JuanAntonio,
May I ask what your present VNS amps are at, and how fast did you titrate up to that?
Thanks, Headcheese
> Have you considered VNS Therapy for depression? I had the implant in January of 2006 and I seem to have a little bit of improvement, and I've only been at the therapeutic dose for 6 months. I think that ECT is great for acute, can't get out of bed, depression. But for chronic, low grade, treatment resistant depression, VNS Therapy can work better.
>
> If you've really tried all medications and combos and medication adjuncts, such as stims, then I would say give VNS a look. After you view the Cyberonics Website, vnstherapy.com, if you are still interested, then get the book, "Out of the Black Hole". It's all about VNS for treatment of depression. Also fill out the IVEA form for Cyberonics so that you can start finding a doc in your area to do it, and get started on insurance approval. Let me know if you have any questions.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Antonio
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2007, at 20:32:00
In reply to Re: defending oneself » Dr. Bob, posted by Karen44 on January 18, 2007, at 20:54:35
> And what about the "offense" of others????
I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding defending oneself to Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link to my reply:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061228/msgs/724203.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Jedi on January 23, 2007, at 2:14:17
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » blueberry1, posted by Karen44 on January 13, 2007, at 20:49:08
> Okay; here is the list, and I expect I am forgetting some. Just to preface, my diagnosis is Major Depressive Disorder, Recurrent, Severe - has been my diagnosis per many different doc's, and I would agree with the diagnosis. I am not bipolar, and no one has thought so. I have, however, taken med's that bipolar folks take and have taken them to stabilize mood. Also, I have taken low doses of antipsychotics to help with sleep. So, that having been said, here is the list though I am probably forgetting some.
>
> Abilify, BuSpar, Celexa, Cymbalta, Effexor, Elavil, Haldol, Lexapro, Lithium, Ludiamil, Luvox, Mellaril, Norpramin, Pamelor, Paxil, Prolixin, Parnate, Remeron, Risperdal, Stelazine, Thorazine, Tofranil, Trazadone, Valium, Wellbutrin, Zoloft.
>
> Currently, I take Emsam, 9 mg., Lamictal, 100 mg, Neurontin, 900 mg, and Seroquel, 25 mg.
>
> I also take meds for COPD, GERD, hypertension, and hormone replacement therapy. I think I am probably forgetting some.
>
> Yes, I have tried other things includingthe light box and herbs and vitamins. Currently taking fish oil, calcium, and multivitamin.
>
>
> Karen44
Hi Karen,
There are quite a few medication strategies that could be attempted before ECT. I'm saving that one for the final chapter. Fake it til you make it was my motto for many years, before the really major depression hit. Then there was no hiding it, I was down.Is your depression atypical with an anxiety component? If so, even though you have tried Parnate and EMSAM, nothing worked for me until I discovered Nardil with clonazepam. After about five weeks, the Nardil kicked in and just slammed the depression. I have not felt anything like it in my lifetime. It was really just like turning on a light. Unlike the MAOIs that you have tried, Nardil is a hydrazine derivitve with an effect on GABA in the brain. Clonazepam also works on GABA.
Many people won't use Nardil because of the chance of weight gain. But it sure beats being rolled up on the floor in a fetal position with no hope left.
Good Luck,
Jedi
Posted by stargazer on January 24, 2007, at 19:02:56
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » Karen44, posted by Jedi on January 23, 2007, at 2:14:17
I would welcome weight gain if I had my mind back. I don't get that excuse when you are knocking on death's door. My theory is that level of depression determines what you will try because you have nothing to lose. Weight gain for me at this point would be a relief if I had my life back.
Currently on Emsam with no improvement at 9 mg, getting desparate. May try nardil, told my pdoc I wanted to try Nardil and he wanted me to try Cymbalta first, which made me worse, followed by Emsam. Was on 6 mg for 2 mos, just increased to 9 mg. I don't know. Nardil worked for a year or two in 1987 before my pdoc kept trying to get me off of it, dumb doctor. Got rid of her and her ideas. I had to fight with her to let me stay on it and eventually it stopped working on it's own anyway. I remember a good response, rather quickly too.
Worth a try soon before I give up...just too much suffering and I'm too afraid to try ECT myself...
Stargazer
Posted by Deniseuk190466 on February 12, 2007, at 7:31:53
In reply to Re: Is ECT all that is left? » blueberry1, posted by Karen44 on January 13, 2007, at 20:49:08
Karen,
I see from these threads that you are only on a very low dose of Seroquel. Have you ever tried higher doses of the antipsychotics?
Bye the way, how are you feeling?
Denise
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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