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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by med_empowered on January 10, 2007, at 3:31:27
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by notfred on January 9, 2007, at 22:41:24
now and then on babble someone talks about a doc rx-ing them miltown. And it seems like some docs are still using it--its readily available, both in brand and generic forms, all over. If this were just for patients who had been on it since the 50s/60s, it would have been phased out, at least in brand-name form.
From what I've read, it seems like Miltown has some drawbacks, but it really isn't too addictive, although it can cause barbiturate-type intoxication that's easier to avoid with benzos. Miltown addiction, much like Valium addiction, became sensationalized by the media with books like The Road to Miltown, and stories of Miltown Parties in the suburbs, and with celebrities admitting their use/love of it.
Posted by halcyondaze on January 10, 2007, at 9:40:48
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by med_empowered on January 10, 2007, at 3:31:27
I find Xanax SO much more addictive than Miltown. Have taken both in high doses. It was Xanax (16 mg/day - unprescribed) that forced me into detox and gave me an anxiety disorder I never had before taking it. But Miltown? Took half a bottle once and didn't feel any profound euphoria.
Posted by laima on January 10, 2007, at 9:42:02
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by notfred on January 9, 2007, at 22:41:24
I don't think that necessarily means they are the same. Ie, selegeline (oral) metabolizes into amphetamine by-products, but it's not an amphetamine and doesn't feel like one.> "Miltown is old as the hills and I have never heard of any MD's prescribing it today."
>
>
> Soma metabolizes into Miltown.
Posted by fca on January 10, 2007, at 10:57:14
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by halcyondaze on January 10, 2007, at 9:40:48
Your message does not bode well for finding a reputable doc who will prescribe any
anxiolytic for you that has the potential tolerance, dependence or abuse. Detoxing does not give you an anxiety disorder--detoxing may lead to severe anxiety or you may have had a pre-existing anxiety disorder. I've got to believe you have significant abuse or addiction problems (e.g., 16 mg of xanax daily unprescribed). I am not minimizing your discomfort or anxiety and I hope you find effective relief--believe it or not mid dose seroquel has worked wonders for my daughter who has has concurrent anxiety, bulimia and alcoholism. Very effective in stabilizing mood and anxiety. Best wishes
Posted by fca on January 10, 2007, at 10:59:54
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by fca on January 10, 2007, at 10:57:14
Posted by halcyondaze on January 10, 2007, at 11:14:35
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by fca on January 10, 2007, at 10:57:14
I've been done w/ detox for three months. I have never had anxiety problems before this. My psychiatrist said that some people develop lifetime anxiety disorders as a result of the damage of benzos to their CNS. I am no longer in active withdrawal and have not been for three months. What I am in now is known as "protracted withdrawal" - could last a year or a lifetime.
> Your message does not bode well for finding a reputable doc who will prescribe any
> anxiolytic for you that has the potential tolerance, dependence or abuse. Detoxing does not give you an anxiety disorder--detoxing may lead to severe anxiety or you may have had a pre-existing anxiety disorder. I've got to believe you have significant abuse or addiction problems (e.g., 16 mg of xanax daily unprescribed). I am not minimizing your discomfort or anxiety and I hope you find effective relief--believe it or not mid dose seroquel has worked wonders for my daughter who has has concurrent anxiety, bulimia and alcoholism. Very effective in stabilizing mood and anxiety. Best wishes
Posted by med_empowered on January 10, 2007, at 12:50:42
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by halcyondaze on January 10, 2007, at 11:14:35
sorry about your situation :-( That sucks about your new anxiety. Is there anything that could possibly help? It seems like tramadol might help, or certain MAOIs, since they act on GABA (and selegeline is antioxidant, so it could help your brain out).
Anyway..if you do end up w/anxiety b/c of it...could you take low-dose benzos long-term to cope? It seems like that'd be another option.
Posted by notfred on January 10, 2007, at 14:12:01
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by laima on January 10, 2007, at 9:42:02
>
> I don't think that necessarily means they are the same. Ie, selegeline (oral) metabolizes into amphetamine by-products, but it's not an amphetamine and doesn't feel like one.
>Some has only one metabolite.
Posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2007, at 14:20:03
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by harry_in_philly on January 9, 2007, at 20:55:33
Hi Harry
But what have you tried for your anxiety apart from benzos/sedatives?
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2007, at 14:22:55
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by stargazer on January 9, 2007, at 22:31:21
>I watched a woman try and detox off of it and it was quite horrific.
Withdrawing from sedatives is very unpleasant, but this applies equally to benzodiazepines, especially short-acting potent drugs such as Xanax.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2007, at 14:25:03
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by laima on January 10, 2007, at 9:42:02
Hi Laima
>Ie, selegeline (oral) metabolizes into amphetamine by-products, but it's not an amphetamine and doesn't feel like one.
.......but selegiline metabolises to l-amphetamine derivatives which lack the strong CNS stimulant properties of the d-amphetamine found in Adderall and Dexedrine.
Regards
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2007, at 14:30:33
In reply to Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated) MD, posted by harry_in_philly on January 9, 2007, at 19:11:58
>Meprobamate....very old drug.......
Whether or not a drug is old is not important. Some extremely old drugs are still widely used in medicine today......think nitroglycerine. We should avoid the tendency to assume that 'new' always = 'better'. On the other hand, there is very little evidence to support the efficacy of meprobamate as an anxiolytic. It's efficacy seems to be relatively poor.
Ed
Posted by FredPotter on January 10, 2007, at 14:35:02
In reply to Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated) MD, posted by harry_in_philly on January 9, 2007, at 19:11:58
depends what you mean by foreign, it being a relative term. Presumably you mean not US
Posted by laima on January 10, 2007, at 16:40:15
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated » laima, posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2007, at 14:25:03
yes.> Hi Laima
>
> >Ie, selegeline (oral) metabolizes into amphetamine by-products, but it's not an amphetamine and doesn't feel like one.
>
> .......but selegiline metabolises to l-amphetamine derivatives which lack the strong CNS stimulant properties of the d-amphetamine found in Adderall and Dexedrine.
>
> Regards
>
> Ed
Posted by notfred on January 10, 2007, at 16:53:24
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated) MD, posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2007, at 14:30:33
" On the other hand, there is very little evidence to support the efficacy of meprobamate as an anxiolytic. It's efficacy seems to be relatively poor.
>
> Ed"Yep, I am taking Soma right now for back problems
but ativan is really far better as an anxiolytic.
Posted by harry_in_philly on January 10, 2007, at 18:11:53
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated » harry_in_philly, posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2007, at 14:20:03
> Hi Harry
>
> But what have you tried for your anxiety apart from benzos/sedatives?
>
> Edtranxene, klonopin, librium, serax, ativan, xanax, aterax/vistaril, compazine, buspar, wellbutrin, paxil, lexapro, and trazadone.
Posted by Phillipa on January 10, 2007, at 18:21:46
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by harry_in_philly on January 10, 2007, at 18:11:53
Still think miltown was the key to stopping panic attacks in my 20's and just stopped it cold turkey. No side effects at all. Even the doc couldn't believe it when I told him. I did continue on 5mg of valium three times a day. Love Phillipa
Posted by dbc on January 11, 2007, at 12:27:55
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated » laima, posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2007, at 14:25:03
Hahahah i've detoxed from high doses of ativan, klonopin xanax and none were even close to the horrors of effexor. I went near cold turkey on two of the benzos but even after an entire month of titeration i still went completely nuts from the effexor withdrawal.
Posted by halcyondaze on January 11, 2007, at 18:12:19
In reply to To halcyondaze..., posted by med_empowered on January 10, 2007, at 12:50:42
I'm on Parnate. It doesn't help.
I was almost raped/assaulted last night and have been having panic attacks. My psychiatrist won't prescribe anything for me.
Once you have a "history," that's it for you. I hate it. One of my relatives is giving me low-dose Xanax to get through the weekend; I'm having a friend hold it for me.
> sorry about your situation :-( That sucks about your new anxiety. Is there anything that could possibly help? It seems like tramadol might help, or certain MAOIs, since they act on GABA (and selegeline is antioxidant, so it could help your brain out).
>
> Anyway..if you do end up w/anxiety b/c of it...could you take low-dose benzos long-term to cope? It seems like that'd be another option.
Posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2007, at 16:29:03
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by notfred on January 10, 2007, at 16:53:24
NF,
I would imagine that meprobamate is more effective as a hypnotic than as an anxiolytic.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2007, at 16:30:45
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by harry_in_philly on January 10, 2007, at 18:11:53
Hi
Do you have a diagnosis of a specific anxiety disorder? eg. panic disorder, GAD etc. What are the worst symptoms of your anxiety?
Ed
Posted by harry_in_philly on January 12, 2007, at 19:23:11
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated » harry_in_philly, posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2007, at 16:30:45
GAD
Posted by notfred on January 12, 2007, at 20:51:17
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated » notfred, posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2007, at 16:29:03
> NF,
>
> I would imagine that meprobamate is more effective as a hypnotic than as an anxiolytic.
>
> Edyup.
Posted by ed_uk on January 13, 2007, at 14:48:14
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated, posted by notfred on January 12, 2007, at 20:51:17
Hi NF
I think the same may be true of barbiturates such as amobarbital. Although an effective hypnotic, I have read that amobarbital is not as effective as benzos for anxiety.
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 13, 2007, at 21:12:32
In reply to Re: Old Doctor vs. Young Doc vs. Foreign (educated » notfred, posted by ed_uk on January 13, 2007, at 14:48:14
>I think the same may be true of barbiturates such as amobarbital. Although an effective hypnotic, I have read that amobarbital is not as effective as benzos for anxiety.
I think that's true. I used phenobarbital during benzo withdrawal and it didn't seem to touch my anxiety at all. Just sedated me and blunted all my emotions like Seroquel.Q
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