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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 109 to 133 of 135. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2007, at 20:39:16
In reply to Re: Big Pharma Bribes/Freebies/Propoganda/Brainwas, posted by notfred on January 7, 2007, at 19:31:49
If they worked meanwhile I sit with a box of many meds what I were to feel sucidal or couldn't take it anymore no one would even know I had taken meds. See what I mean? If they don't work the doc should want them back to get rid of the extra samples. I did also get synthroid well that was a good thing. Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on January 7, 2007, at 20:43:10
In reply to Re: Big Pharma Bribes/Freebies/Propoganda/Brainwas » notfred, posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2007, at 20:39:16
> If they worked meanwhile I sit with a box of many meds what I were to feel sucidal or couldn't take it anymore no one would even know I had taken meds. See what I mean?
No I do not. What keeps you from throwing them away ? So you are going to blame any sucide attempts on samples ? How about household cleaners ?
Posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2007, at 20:50:27
In reply to Re: Big Pharma Bribes/Freebies/Propoganda/Brainwas, posted by notfred on January 7, 2007, at 20:43:10
Oh Notfred it was just an example. And I hate cleaning so no worries there and I've never tried to committ suicide too big a chicken Love Phillipa ps plus I want to get better
Posted by laima on January 7, 2007, at 22:35:47
In reply to Re: zyprexa pens, posted by notfred on January 7, 2007, at 19:04:10
Yes- a whole mess of problems with pharmaceuticals: their development and distribution.> Kinda hard, too, when the majority of drug research is funded via big pharma. OTH my HMO makes sure I can't take almost anything new, so I find this argument pointless. If a doc wrote more scripts just to get a perk, then the problem is with the doc.
>
> I think the real issue is research. How can it become unbiased ? Arguing about perks seems like one is missing the big issue and concentrating
> on after effects. All these issues mentioned here come way after the drug is researched and developed. In a biased manner.
Posted by laima on January 7, 2007, at 22:38:23
In reply to Re: zyprexa pens, posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2007, at 19:24:28
>And if they had to give them back to the rep wouldn't look like they were doing their job.
That's amazing! Is that what they told you? So your doctor essentially admitted to being obligated to hand out a certain number of samples??
Posted by laima on January 7, 2007, at 22:42:49
In reply to Re: Big Pharma Bribes/Freebies/Propoganda/Brainwas » notfred, posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2007, at 20:39:16
So, you're not saying your doctor gave you a smorgasbord of psychiatric medications to go experiment around with, are you? My doctor only gives me samples if he finds drug in question in his office stash AFTER he decides it in particular may be helpful.
He'll give me extras, too, if it's an expensive drug that I've been prescribed.> If they worked meanwhile I sit with a box of many meds what I were to feel sucidal or couldn't take it anymore no one would even know I had taken meds. See what I mean? If they don't work the doc should want them back to get rid of the extra samples. I did also get synthroid well that was a good thing. Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on January 8, 2007, at 3:17:58
In reply to Re: Patient paid to accept neuroleptic depot injec » yxibow, posted by ed_uk on January 7, 2007, at 8:00:19
> Hi Jay
>
> Niacin frequently causes flushing. Niacinamide (nicotinamide) is the variety of vitamin B3 which doesn't cause flushing.
>
> Regards
>
> EdI know the variations. I believe this was inositol hexaniacinate or the like, which is the same as you say. Didn't work. Could have been unknown CYP interactions judging from the number of medications I take, but isn't worth the uncomfortability during gymwork and another trial at the moment.
Posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 10:48:18
In reply to Re: Patient paid to accept neuroleptic depot injec » ed_uk, posted by yxibow on January 8, 2007, at 3:17:58
Curiosity- has anyone ever seen a sample of a generic drug, a benzo, or a schedule 2 drug? Samples must cost drug companies a small fortune, I am sure they wouldn't do it if they didn't make up with increased sales. I am entertaining a speculation that there aren't samples of benzos or schedule 2 because they can "sell themselves", but can't figure out why there are no generic samples. Surely the generic manufactures would like to increase their own sales, too? Would be awfully handy to be able to compare side by side a generic with a brand name version of a drug.Is the US the only country with drug samples?
Posted by linkadge on January 8, 2007, at 11:07:25
In reply to Re: Patient paid to accept neuroleptic depot injec » ed_uk, posted by yxibow on January 8, 2007, at 3:17:58
I remember one study showed that combining vitamin C with low dose neuroleptics led to a better outcome than high dose neurloleptics alone.
Certain drug abusers know that if they have a bad trip that vitamin c can act as an antipsychotic like antidote.
Linkadge
Posted by Quintal on January 8, 2007, at 11:11:08
In reply to Re: Patient paid to accept neuroleptic depot injec, posted by linkadge on January 8, 2007, at 11:07:25
>Certain drug abusers know that if they have a bad trip that vitamin c can act as an antipsychotic like antidote
Niacin is alledgedly even more powerful. I never found out why though.
Q
Posted by notfred on January 8, 2007, at 11:16:27
In reply to Re: samples, posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 10:48:18
>
> Curiosity- has anyone ever seen a sample of a generic drug, a benzo, or a schedule 2 drug?Generics, no
benzos are schedule IV (http://www.dea.gov/pubs/scheduling.html)
I have received Schedule III, IV and V brand samplesschedule II would be most stims, when I took those
I was seeing a doc who never gave samples. I do know that docs can get samples for brand amphetamines and Ritalin.
Posted by Phillipa on January 8, 2007, at 17:53:54
In reply to Re: samples, posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 10:48:18
Well she did give me lunesta samples and had ambien too. And they are controlled? And yes she did rummage through her box. So I have coupons for trileptal I may never need as I haven't seen that trileptal helps anxiety has anyone else? love Phillipa
Posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 17:57:54
In reply to Re: samples, posted by notfred on January 8, 2007, at 11:16:27
Wow- that just kills me. I feel like a near criminal every month at the pharmacy, handing over my driver's liscence to get my prescription which is full of all kinds of restrictions- and they get to hand out samples! Some controlled substances. Maybe they do an inventory of their samples.
> I was seeing a doc who never gave samples. I do know that docs can get samples for brand amphetamines and Ritalin.
Posted by notfred on January 8, 2007, at 18:04:30
In reply to Re: samples » notfred, posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 17:57:54
" and they get to hand out samples! Some controlled substances. Maybe they do an inventory of their samples. "
Present doc had me sign for lunestra samples.
Posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 18:10:16
In reply to Re: samples » laima, posted by Phillipa on January 8, 2007, at 17:53:54
No, don't they are considered controlled.> Well she did give me lunesta samples and had ambien too. And they are controlled? And yes she did rummage through her box. So I have coupons for trileptal I may never need as I haven't seen that trileptal helps anxiety has anyone else? love Phillipa
Posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 18:11:16
In reply to Re: samples, posted by notfred on January 8, 2007, at 18:04:30
Oh! No kidding. Makes sense, I've wondered about how many samples walk away from the office and all.
> " and they get to hand out samples! Some controlled substances. Maybe they do an inventory of their samples. "
>
>
> Present doc had me sign for lunestra samples.
Posted by notfred on January 8, 2007, at 18:16:45
In reply to Re: samples » Phillipa, posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 18:10:16
>
> No, don't they are considered controlled.
>
> > Well she did give me lunesta samples and had ambien too.
Yes they both are, schedule IV.
Posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 18:29:56
In reply to Re: samples, posted by notfred on January 8, 2007, at 18:16:45
Oh- I guess I always picture schedule 2, like stimulants with their complicated scripts, when I think "controlled". I never think about the rest. So if they are controlled, how come some doctors hand out samples of sleep meds like party favors? Maybe it varies by state?> >
> > No, don't they are considered controlled.
> >
> > > Well she did give me lunesta samples and had ambien too.
>
>
> Yes they both are, schedule IV.
Posted by Phillipa on January 8, 2007, at 19:21:04
In reply to Re: samples, posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 18:29:56
Nope didn't sign for them the lunesta. Love Phillipa ps they are controlled here in NC as my pharmacist told me so.
Posted by yxibow on January 9, 2007, at 3:08:16
In reply to Re: samples, posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 18:29:56
>
> Oh- I guess I always picture schedule 2, like stimulants with their complicated scripts, when I think "controlled". I never think about the rest. So if they are controlled, how come some doctors hand out samples of sleep meds like party favors? Maybe it varies by state?
>
> > >
> > > No, don't they are considered controlled.
> > >
> > > > Well she did give me lunesta samples and had ambien too.
> >
> >
> > Yes they both are, schedule IV.
>
>Doctors' DEA licences are federally administered so I would imagine there are usual loopholes in state laws but any federal act would supercede sample distribution. Couldn't find any example, although on a related one, New York state again disallows "coupons" for controlled substances.
http://www.health.state.ny.us/professionals/narcotic/letter_samples.htm
Posted by Sebastian on January 9, 2007, at 12:13:45
In reply to Re: zyprexa pens, posted by laima on January 7, 2007, at 18:30:09
My GP only prescribes Brand medications, because they are better. That has to be some bull..sh..
Posted by yxibow on January 9, 2007, at 13:26:10
In reply to Re: zyprexa pens, posted by Sebastian on January 9, 2007, at 12:13:45
> My GP only prescribes Brand medications, because they are better. That has to be some bull..sh..
Yeah, we could get into our 5th or 6th discussion on brand vs. generic... it entirely depends on the medication, but I think my beliefs have been spoken on things like benzodiazepines and beta blockers which have been out for ages that as long as it is the same generic manufacturer for as long as possible and insisting on that from the pharmacy, then it shouldn't be a problem.
If that changes, the best thing to do is to alternate any old other-generic with the new generic to account for any differences. That is, of course if your pharmacy allows around 25-26 day refills, which we have a lively discussion above.
-- tidings.
Posted by ed_uk on January 9, 2007, at 13:29:03
In reply to Re: zyprexa pens, posted by Sebastian on January 9, 2007, at 12:13:45
I just discovered a Nexium calculator. It's kind of cool but it doesn't suddenly make me forget that taking Nexium has no advantages over taking a high dose of (much cheaper) generic omeprazole or lansoprazole.
Ed
Posted by RN320 on January 12, 2007, at 14:17:50
In reply to Re: samples, posted by laima on January 8, 2007, at 10:48:18
The reason that there are no generic drug samples available, is because the generic houses aren't trying to get your business. They market strictly to pharmacies, hospitals and drug supply houses that supply to institutions and pharmacies too. They function on a low cost/hi volume margin. They make their money though this, and the fact that they didn't have to do the research and development and all that's required to get a drug approved through the FDA. Even though I feel that pharmaceutical companies are making outrageous profits at the expense of ordinary people (and what insurance companies have to pay them) they take in mind the following when they price their drugs:
1. Cost of R & D
2. The length of their patent
3. The potential volume that they can predict
4. What comparable products from other manufacturers are priced at.As Mental Health patients, we are consdiered a "niche" market, and some products (like my EMSAM) are remote niche markets. So that's why our brand name drugs cost so much more than others. The number of people with high cholesterol, diabetes, hypertension etc are gigantic numbers compared to our population, plus we have subsets that make us more of a niche (depression, bi-polar, schizo, etc.) The more specific you get, the higher the price. Also, some of these pharmaceutical companies use the excuse that their prices are so high because their patent life is short (like EMSAM only has 3 years, and they claim that the $500 a month price is to recoup their costs and make a profit within 3 years before some generic house comes and picks up the patent.) I think that this is largely a crock of bs because the really remote drugs like the MAOIs aren't really at risk for generic houses to want to sell. If you look at Marplan andd Nardil- they've been around for decades now and NO ONE has made generics. Last July, Parnate went generic, but I'm told that the actual price difference is only $7-10 cheaper! A generic house would have to price this drug higher because they'll never be able to sell a volume to where they can make it really cheaper for anyone to want to buy. I bet that this generic house won't be making this mistake again soon!
Don't mean to drone on, but that's my take on it. I'm an RN and I was in the medical manufacturering industry for >15 years.
Best wishes./m
Posted by RN320 on January 12, 2007, at 14:32:15
In reply to Re: samples, posted by notfred on January 8, 2007, at 18:04:30
Here's the deal as I understand it with samples. The FDA now requires all pharmaceutical companies to account for where each and every sample goes. This is for safety reasons as well as monitoring for abuse of samples by physician offices and the pharma reps themselves! they used to be able to give out a truckload of samples and never know where they went. Then, in the late 80's (I think), the FDA came down on the industry. So, in some physician offices the staff take care of logging who gets what when (drug, dose, quantity, lot# and exp. date). MD's have to personally sign for samples (they can be pretty lax about that one when there's an office manager or nurse around who will sign, but that's how it's supposed to go). The one case where the doc has to sign for any samples is for the controlled substances. A patient signature confirming receipt of a scheduled drug is supposed to be required, but it seems like sometimes they overlook the schedule IV class. My pdocs office is very careful about samples- you have to sign for each and every one. It's a mandate from the FDA, so I don't believe that it can be overridden by state laws.
/m
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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