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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 9:52:36
In reply to Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by notfred on December 28, 2006, at 4:48:07
All the power to the movement.
I wish my doctor would believe me about such things so I wouldn't be forced to take seroquel the next day which makes me feel like sh*t.
I might gain some weight instead of loosing it.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2006, at 11:35:39
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 9:52:36
It's been around a long while as marinol of for cancer patients nausea. Love Phillipa ps sounds like the magic drug
Posted by Sebastian on December 28, 2006, at 13:10:45
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2006, at 11:35:39
When will my doctor perscribe it?
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 14:11:25
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Sebastian on December 28, 2006, at 13:10:45
Thats what I want to know.
Linkadge
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:09:24
In reply to Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by notfred on December 28, 2006, at 4:48:07
There's no mention here about paranoia or anxiety as side effects - which is a big problem for me with cannabis. Also dry mouth and tachycardia. Many people become withdrawn and asocial with long term use and sometimes depressed. There's also the risk of cannabis triggering psychosis in susceptible people. I need to take it with a benzo to feel good and it no longer stimulates my appetite.
That said I would like to have access to medical grade cannabis with vaporizing equipment - it's supposed to give a cleaner, speedier high.
I wonder what doses other people use, and does anyone else find cannabis helpful?
Q
Posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 15:31:44
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:09:24
Some drugs are best taken by the most indirect route, allowing for one's system to adapt to the changes.
Eating it is best, with careful attention to the dose. The effect for me is much better, or not nearly as bad.
I always get rapid heart rate and anxiety if I smoke it.
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:48:04
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 15:31:44
The first time I took marijuana I ate it. I was very naive about drugs then and a guy gave me a 1/2oz block of resin as a token of appreciation for paying his bus fare when his wallet was stolen. I wasn't sure about how much to take or how to use it, so when setting fire to it failed I decided to chew the whole lump. I ended up having a massive panic attack and spent the next day at seeming to float above my body, operating it like a puppet on strings.
I guess as you say, you need to be careful about the dose if eating because it can be a long and terrifying trip if you get it wrong!
Q
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 15:54:05
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » Declan, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:48:04
The tacycarda is due to the rapid anticholinergic effect of the drug. You can reduce this by taking cholinergic supplements.
I also noticed no tachycardia on high dose fish oil with a small quantity of cannabis.
I found it very helpfull for sleep, anxiety, and mood. I had some *mild* paranoia at first, but nothing worse than what TCA antidepressants caused. Again, likely an effect of the rapid anticholinergic effect.
The tachycardia was also much less than what a TCA or effexor caused.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 15:55:10
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 15:31:44
Whats the deal with vaporizers? Do they work? Is there smoke involved? Are their risks to the lungs?
Linkadge
Posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 16:15:39
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 15:55:10
I was a true believer, but now I'm almost skeptical. Paying attention, I noticed very distinct depressed mood crashes, timed about two days after smoking, every single time, once I stopped smoking it on a regular basis. So now I don't bother. Could have been some sort of interaction, but I just don't know. And what's up with it supposedly being a risk factor for schizophrenia? I know of at least three heavy users who are not quite the same any more. That sort of spooked me, too.
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 28, 2006, at 16:28:03
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 16:15:39
I thought it was helpful, and can say that some of the most enjoyable moments in my life were after smoking. But like some others it seemed the longer I continually did it, the more antisocial and amotivated I became.
I miss doing it too, but I decided that I wouldn;t be able to get a fair evaluation of the other crap I am taking while I am smoking weed.
JB
PS- for those who were looking at the above links about stage 4 sleep , I read an article that said that THC increased amount of time in stage 4 sleep.
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 16:28:12
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 15:55:10
>Whats the deal with vaporizers? Do they work? Is there smoke involved? Are their risks to the lungs?
Yes, there's some info here:
Posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 16:30:05
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » Declan, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:48:04
OMG. 28g to the oz. So that's 14.
At least you survived.
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 16:43:44
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » Quintal, posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 16:30:05
Posted by blueberry1 on December 28, 2006, at 17:00:25
In reply to Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by notfred on December 28, 2006, at 4:48:07
Now that you mention it, it has been all downhill for me since stopping marijuana 1 1/2 years ago. Meds don't work anything like pot did. I was actually in pretty decent shape as a daily light smoker. The fear of getting busted, the high cost of the weed, and the unpredictable variation in qualtiy, along with guilt of being a daily smoker, led me to wean off it. It has been a very rough journey ever since. I bet if I could smoke just one night, I would know what it feels like to be normal again.
For several years I did not hang out at psychobabble. The reason? I was feeling decent. What was the reason I was feeling decent? I had a couple puffs of a joint after lunch, and then I had a couple more puffs off that same joint in the evening.
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 17:48:38
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by blueberry1 on December 28, 2006, at 17:00:25
Well, I guess it does depend on the person. Marajuanna made me so incredably prosocial. I am very antisocial without medications. I may only leave the house once a day, and people irritate me. I don't like people in general. (nothing personal, I'd just rather be alone)
When I do smoke, which happens rarely, a lot of that just melts away. I want to be in places where people are, like the church or in a library whatever. Sometimes I just go downtown with a book and sit and read on a park bench, which is very much not like me. I also call up friends and ask if they want to watch a movie or whatever.
It may be the combination of omega-3 and marajuanna I don't know.
As far as schizophrenia goes, I don't know if anyone can say it *causes* schizohprenia. That is a very tall acusation. There are some large studies that suggest an association, and some very large studies that suggest no association.
I think one study found an association which was slight, but only in persons carrying the low acting COMT varient gene.
It was the same accusation as with tobacco. There are a large number of people with schizophrenia who smoke tobacco. That doesn't mean that tobacco causes schizophrenia. Infact some studies suggest that schizophrenics who smoke tobacco have a better functional outcome. The tobacco use too, often predates the schizophrenia.
I tend to think that people with schizophrenia probably start out with some sort of HPA axis dysregulation, and that the marajuanna ameleorates this. Antiglutacortacoids like RU-486 can be fast acting antipsychotic agents.
The disease probably progresses on its own.
Certain cannabanoids are actually under investigation for their antipsychotic activities.
I'm not saying its not possable, I'm just saying there have been a number of lies dispersed to try and discourage drug use.
Linkadge
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:19:14
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 17:48:38
I was already taking high dose fish oil when I started using marijuana this time and I didn't notice any difference.
The schizophrenia risk allegedly comes from the fact that marijuana alters perception in a way that tobacco doesn't - it's supposedly a hallucinogen (as is tobacco at high doses). The increased paranoia is a high trigger risk in people who have paranoid schizophrenia and it may also accelerate the decline in somebody already half way there. My schizophrenic friend hates it for this reason, and she suffered a few regressions after smoking marijuana. She now avoids it altogether. There were a few times when I was smoking heavily that I thought I was heading toward catatonic schizophrenia and backed away from it for that reason. I felt pretty good most of the time, but as with most drugs it was an illusion. All I was really doing was sitting and staring into space or thinking crazy thoughts. I have a huge pile of A4 somewhere full of my rantings. It's a little scary to look at now.
It's had a definite effect on me - I now have 'seeing in' and 'seeing as' hallucinations quite often. I 'see' faces or and hidden messages in the most common unassuming objects and it's not all hallucination because there are hidden shapes in these things.
I get very paranoid and afraid of people when I'm stoned - conversation is not exactly scintillating either.
Q
Posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 18:38:23
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » linkadge, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:19:14
Some people should simply never touch it in any dose. Others are OK if they get the dose and administration route right.
It increases a feeling of uncertainty (in some) so that you have to think quite hard about how you feel about anything.
And of course you can't think of anything to say for the same reason.
The worst social drug I know of.OTOH I found "Extras" much improved from it. And no need to speak.
Posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 18:47:08
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Jimmyboy on December 28, 2006, at 16:28:03
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 18:51:08
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » linkadge, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:19:14
>The schizophrenia risk allegedly comes from the >fact that marijuana alters perception in a way >that tobacco doesn't - it's supposedly a >hallucinogen (as is tobacco at high doses). The >increased paranoia is a high trigger risk in >people who have paranoid schizophrenia and it >may also accelerate the decline in somebody >already half way there.
Schizophrenia is more than a temporary alteration of biochemical functioning. There are real, structural differences in the brain's of schizohrenic patients. Such abnormalities have never been linked to marajuanna use.
I don't think it can cause schizophrenia, but yes it is a risk to use in somebody with a mood disorder or schizophrenia.
I don't recomend getting stoned or even high. For me, a few puffs is more than enough to kill anxiety and insomnia, without getting high at all.
>It's had a definite effect on me - I now >have 'seeing in' and 'seeing as' hallucinations >quite often. I 'see' faces or and hidden >messages in the most common unassuming objects >and it's not all hallucination because there are >hidden shapes in these things.Do you have any relatives with schizophrenia or schizophrenic like illnesses? I have had residual effects from prescription drugs. For instance, lithium + SSRI's was very trippy. I thought the railway crossing barriers were swords of giant soldiers.
>I get very paranoid and afraid of people when >I'm stoned - conversation is not exactly >scintillating either.
I'm not trying to dismiss your case at all. I guess I am just saying that different people have different experiences. Was your source clean? My friend smoked for years and had a single psychotic break when he unwittingly smoked some laced with PCP.
Thats kinda why I encourage the medicinal use of it. At least people know then what they are getting.
Linkadge
Posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 18:53:00
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 17:48:38
I'm not so sure that any careful scientists are saying marijuana (or anything else) without any doubt "causes" schizophrenia, but there is an awful lot of association between pot and psychosis and schizophrenia. But I understand that one would also need to be genetically predisposed to such conditions, or perhaps go absolutely nuts and over the top with the pot.As far as schizophrenia goes, I don't know if anyone can say it *causes* schizohprenia. That is a very tall acusation. There are some large studies that suggest an association, and some very large studies that suggest no association.
>
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:55:23
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by blueberry1 on December 28, 2006, at 17:00:25
>The fear of getting busted, the high cost of the weed, and the unpredictable variation in qualtiy, along with guilt of being a daily smoker, led me to wean off it. It has been a very rough journey ever since. I bet if I could smoke just one night, I would know what it feels like to be normal again.
Have you tried legal herbal alternatives? My friend and I tried a herbal blend called 'Spice' and it is *very* effective. Some people here in the UK are turning away from street marijuana for the reasons you mention and also because the herbal smokes are higher quality and have fewer impurities.
Q
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 18:58:30
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 18:38:23
Thats crazy. The stuff made me talk very quickly. I couldn't stop laughing. I must have got the good stuff. Like on American Beauty. I was on my knees. My stomach hurt so much from the laughter.
>It increases a feeling of uncertainty (in some) >so that you have to think quite hard about how
>you feel about anything.I can agree with that. I think thats the anticholinergic/deleriant action. Cholinergic supplements can bring you back to a recognizable place, should you get too far.
Choline Bitrate 500mg-1500mg. Also heard anecdotal reports of acetycholinsterase inhibitor huperzine being helpfull to reduce delerium should it occur.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 19:04:57
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » linkadge, posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 18:53:00
I know it can make a lot of people paranoid, so so can other abused deleriants like benydryl, cogentin etc. But the paranoia usually goes away when the drug wears off.
I think that schizophrenics smoke it to help with negative symtpoms, and that the "side effect" of paranoia has led some researchers to conclude that it causes schizophrenia.
Linkadge
Posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 19:09:26
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » Quintal, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 18:51:08
schizophrenia.com lists an awful lot of articles about studies which beg to differ about marijuana never causing any brain abnormalities. There also are supposedly so many types of and causes of "schizophrenia" that some people propose tossing out the term altogether- it's too broad and vague. But I do know, coincidence or not, that a few people who I've known for a long time have become quite "off" with their reasoning after being chronic smokers for a very long time. A little paranoid about government plots, sure they are about to become wildly famous and rich, that occupants of UFOs, logically, are amongst us...stuff like that. Whether or not that counts as schizophrenia, I can't say, but it's pretty sad. There's heavy evidence for an association, though yes, to say "marijuana will cause schizophrenia" is a little oversimplistic. And definately, plenty of people smoke tons, essentially unscathed.
The pcp risk is out there, too. You just don't always know what you're getting. A lot of people mistake their pcp laced weed for good pot, because they just can't seem to tell the difference.
> Schizophrenia is more than a temporary alteration of biochemical functioning. There are real, structural differences in the brain's of schizohrenic patients. Such abnormalities have never been linked to marajuanna use.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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