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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on November 27, 2006, at 23:55:45
I told my pdoc I didn't take my meds as directed and she said it's important that I do because not doing so can cause instability. What kind of instability?
I let my 0.75 mg Risperdal run out for two nights and I decreased Celexa from 50 to 40 mg.
Anyways, I can't tell the difference between instability caused by the environment and instability caused by meds.
Recently I had a sort of crisis where I sort of threatened suicide. Two things were happening at the same time, the messing with meds and the changes in situation. Is it possible that messing with meds contributed? Or am I trying to find something to blame? I should only blame myself for what happened. I dunno, I don't think it was the meds. I think it's my flawed personality. I just wish I hadn't messed with the meds so I would know for certain it is 100% my own flawed personality.
Deneb*
Posted by med_empowered on November 28, 2006, at 1:50:41
In reply to What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by Deneb on November 27, 2006, at 23:55:45
I think it really depends...if your meds have short half-lives, then missing a couple doses could reduce the amount floating around in your bloodstream, which I guess would then start withdrawal and/or unleash symptoms that had been controlled with medications.
Plus, if you have mood swings and what not already, adding in med withdrawal and re-emerging symptoms could possibly make things worse, although some people do better on lower dosages or different med combos....in general, I'd say if it ain't broke, don't fix it--but, if you do have problems with your med combos, or if you don't really want to take certain meds, that's something worth discussing with your friends, family, and doctor...although utimately, you have to decide what works and what doesn't.
Good luck.
Posted by Squiggles on November 28, 2006, at 9:02:16
In reply to What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by Deneb on November 27, 2006, at 23:55:45
I don't mess with my meds anymore. My
dr. can count on that. I've learned my
lesson that instability is painful for
restabilization. Infact, I would rather
risk lithium toxicity than lithium instability;
same with clonazepam, same with Synthroid.However, when external circumstances beyond
my control (like the counterfeit lithium--which
i reported to my dr. immediately), and a food
or drink interaction, messes the balance, there
is not much i can do. Only in such cases did
I tweak the dose to bring it up to therapeutic.
Scary stuff, but fortunately it doesn't happen
often.There is another advantage to med compliance and that is that if you do get ill from an external cause, the drs. will be able to trace that cause and hopefully give you the right advice, as i got.
Squiggles
Posted by stargazer on November 28, 2006, at 9:19:17
In reply to Re: What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by med_empowered on November 28, 2006, at 1:50:41
Messing with the meds is a big NO-No if you want to get things straight. It can take a long time to do and for those of us with intolerable feelings or side effects, time is a luxury, but...at the bare minimum you should at least hold a dose for at least a few days, 1 week being ideal. You MUST call your pdoc before thinking of changing a dosage and explain why you want to do this. This is REQUIRED to have a doctor/patient relationship work well.
The only exception to staying at a prescibed dose of a med would be that the side effects are intolerable, and this warrants a phone call to discuss this. The other situation that may necessitate a med change is the emergence of suicidal or other extreme reactions (wide gamut) to the meds. Those are always considered emergencies and your pdoc should know about these situations.
But holding a drug steady is the only way to detemine effectiveness, so try and not do anything on your own. It's one thing if you have been stable for awhile and you want to experiment with a minor dose change, just to see, but that would be the extent of drug adjustments, etc.
Stargazer
Posted by linkadge on November 28, 2006, at 11:41:24
In reply to Re: What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by stargazer on November 28, 2006, at 9:19:17
I think that messing with meds is the only way to get things straight.
If I just took what the doctor gave no questions asked I would be taking.
Lithium 600mg,
zyprexa 10mg
zoloft 200mg,
clonazepam 3mg
depakote 500mg
ritalin 20mg.Where would I be then?
Finding out that I could live on less was very liberating. But that would have never happened with my doctors instruction.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2006, at 12:00:01
In reply to What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by Deneb on November 27, 2006, at 23:55:45
Deneb when you take them they work right and this doesn't happen? Love Phillipa take as prescribed
Posted by madeline on November 28, 2006, at 12:43:59
In reply to Re: What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by linkadge on November 28, 2006, at 11:41:24
then it sounds to me as though you needed to switch doctors.
Posted by Racer on November 28, 2006, at 13:55:17
In reply to What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by Deneb on November 27, 2006, at 23:55:45
> I told my pdoc I didn't take my meds as directed and she said it's important that I do because not doing so can cause instability. What kind of instability?
>
> I let my 0.75 mg Risperdal run out for two nights and I decreased Celexa from 50 to 40 mg.
>
> Anyways, I can't tell the difference between instability caused by the environment and instability caused by meds.
>
> Recently I had a sort of crisis where I sort of threatened suicide. Two things were happening at the same time, the messing with meds and the changes in situation. Is it possible that messing with meds contributed? Or am I trying to find something to blame? I should only blame myself for what happened. I dunno, I don't think it was the meds. I think it's my flawed personality. I just wish I hadn't messed with the meds so I would know for certain it is 100% my own flawed personality.
>
> Deneb*Deneb, there's another possibility I don't think you've looked at. It's possible that the medications were controlling certain symptoms which contributed to the situation in the first place.
Your medications, particularly the Risperdal, have made a difference that is apparent to people here. A lot of people have told you that, when you've wondered whether the meds were helping you at all. Just the fact that the meds help and bad things happen when you don't take them as prescribed by your pdoc is probably all the information you need to answer your question yourself. You are, after all, a smart cookie.
Posted by blueberry on November 28, 2006, at 16:48:11
In reply to What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by Deneb on November 27, 2006, at 23:55:45
I think it depends on each individual case. If someone's life is stable without any ongoing issues that can upset the balance then I think tweeking the meds is ok. If there are problems, it might not be a good idea. It also depends on how much the person knows about the meds. For example, stopping risperdal cold turkey for a couple days is not a good idea. It would be better to wean it down in small increments, either by cutting little pieces off a tab or mixing powder from a capsule in juice and drinking a custom sized amount. And the weaning process should be at least 2 to 4 weeks as far as I'm concerned.
About a decade ago I was doing fantastic. My doc got me to the point of being functional, but nowhere near being well. It was my own med choices that got me completely well. The meds my doctor prescribed eventually caused major longterm problems on top of my existing problems, and they didn't work anywhere near as well as they did. I've been through 4 pdocs since then, all with high credentials, and I followed their protocols on everything. What resulted was 3 emergency room visits and a one week stay in the hospital psych ward. So I am kind of making my own med calls again, but it's early, so I have no good news to share about it.
I kind of agree with linkage's post. But it varies from person to person.
Posted by med_empowered on November 28, 2006, at 17:46:44
In reply to Re: What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by blueberry on November 28, 2006, at 16:48:11
as docs go, p-docs are kind of...unreliable. They usually dont weight patients or do their own blood work or take blood pressure or...anything "doctorly," really.
So if you want to change your meds, just try to do it slowly, and if you start freaking out, slow down even more. Also, try to be open w/ your p-doc. If your doc cannot accept that you control your life and therefore also have the final say over any meds you take, then you may want to find another p-doc or try to create a workable med system w/ what they prescribe.
Good luck!
Posted by Deneb on November 28, 2006, at 18:20:47
In reply to Re: What are the consequences of messing w/meds? » Deneb, posted by Racer on November 28, 2006, at 13:55:17
> Deneb, there's another possibility I don't think you've looked at. It's possible that the medications were controlling certain symptoms which contributed to the situation in the first place.
I don't remember what I took which day and what happened, but I don't think I was in an especially bad way before the situation.
> Your medications, particularly the Risperdal, have made a difference that is apparent to people here.
I believe it does do something, but probably not as much as it seems. I'm unsure as to whether or not it is mostly through placebo effect that it works. It could be that I am psychologically addicted to it, in that if I don't take it I believe I will get worse, so I do.
Regardless of what really happened, I should really continue taking them for now because I need to do well in my exams and now is NOT the time to do any sort of experimentation.
Deneb*
Posted by stargazer on November 28, 2006, at 20:53:29
In reply to Re: What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by Deneb on November 28, 2006, at 18:20:47
Posted by Jost on November 29, 2006, at 10:29:05
In reply to What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by Deneb on November 27, 2006, at 23:55:45
Hi, Deneb.
The effect of messing with meds is that your meds get messed up.
Not generally a good thing.
If you and your pdoc agree that you need to change meds, or the dosage of meds, then it makes sense to go down slowly, and make a note of reactions you have.
This is especially true if you're worried about how you'll react.
Otherwise-- ie in the absense of your talking with your pdoc and doing something with his/her input-- it really isn't in your best interests to experiment.
You can't run experiments with a patient sample of one- ie yourself-- anyway. You can just get confused about what caused which and who did what when, and how your meds, or lack of them interacted with it-- all of it being highly speculative-- and subject to your imagining this and that.
So, don't mess with your meds, okay?
Cause if you're doing relatively well-- well-- that's what you (and I and Racer and others here) would want.
Jost
Posted by fenix on November 29, 2006, at 15:36:07
In reply to What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by Deneb on November 27, 2006, at 23:55:45
> I told my pdoc I didn't take my meds as directed and she said it's important that I do because not doing so can cause instability. What kind of instability?
>
> I let my 0.75 mg Risperdal run out for two nights and I decreased Celexa from 50 to 40 mg.
>
> Anyways, I can't tell the difference between instability caused by the environment and instability caused by meds.
>
> Recently I had a sort of crisis where I sort of threatened suicide. Two things were happening at the same time, the messing with meds and the changes in situation. Is it possible that messing with meds contributed? Or am I trying to find something to blame? I should only blame myself for what happened. I dunno, I don't think it was the meds. I think it's my flawed personality. I just wish I hadn't messed with the meds so I would know for certain it is 100% my own flawed personality.
>
> Deneb*I am alive and have probably the worst consequence, I won't say its name. But you don't have to "mess" with meds to get messed up by them.
People have to touch the fire themselves and get burned, there is a difference between understanding a concept and realizing it. There is no wisdom without pain, keep this in mind when some one gives you a piece of wisdom, where it comes from... its very foundation is from foolish mistakes, but from ignorance comes ascension to those with the will to utilize wisdom and preserve in their lives. The answers are there, you just have to accept them.
So, my warnings to people seem ineffective. I won't bother anymore. You guys want to give it a go with major tranquilizers, but when that day comes, and you are all alone in writhing pain 1,000 times worse than before you ever met those dreaded drugs, what do you do?
Because you will be alone, you will be scared, and no one will have the answers for you. The worst of it has no cure, and there is only one thing left to look forward to. That is your reward for going down that foolish path.
Be depressed, be anxious, those at least have cures.
I am right here. You want to know the worst of it, then ask me.
Posted by linkadge on November 29, 2006, at 17:07:19
In reply to Re: What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by fenix on November 29, 2006, at 15:36:07
You can say it, I've been brain dammaged by meds, if thats what you are reffering to.
Linkadge
Posted by blueberry on November 29, 2006, at 19:35:35
In reply to What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by Deneb on November 27, 2006, at 23:55:45
The meds do not know if it is you messing with them or the doctor messing with them. Makes no difference to the meds who's calling the shots. Either way, if they are going to be messed with they need to be messed with in small increments spread out over time.
Posted by Squiggles on November 29, 2006, at 19:45:52
In reply to Re: What are the consequences of messing w/meds?, posted by blueberry on November 29, 2006, at 19:35:35
> The meds do not know if it is you messing with them or the doctor messing with them. Makes no difference to the meds who's calling the shots. Either way, if they are going to be messed with they need to be messed with in small increments spread out over time.
Don't mess with Pill, ta da da da :-)
Squiggles
This is the end of the thread.
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