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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 13:26:00
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by ronaldo on November 27, 2006, at 13:04:47
I was only on 200mg and began it prior to preparing this big T-day dinner for fam'. I'd say I was on it a week and a half maybe, and the closer T-day got, the more fatigued I got. So, I stopped it as I was scared I wouldn't be able to 'pull off' the dinner for T-day.
Do you think maybe I should have given it more time? How much time would one wait, can you hypothesize, or do you know, re: Adrafranil?
And, re: Lyrica, someone above in Monte's post mentions it is sedating in lower dose and energizing in higher dose. Well I'm just on 75mg.
Any thoughts appreciated.
cf
Posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 13:43:47
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » corafree, posted by Crazy Horse on November 27, 2006, at 13:17:44
Tks M .. I've babblemailed you. cf
Posted by rosa63 on November 27, 2006, at 14:01:33
In reply to Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 12:05:39
> Why would Provigil do nothing? I could feel nothing. Or, maybe I felt some fatigue. Is that possible?
CF, I'm sorry Provigil didn't work for you...it didn't me either. :( All it did for me was keep me awake and gave me physical energy. I could do absolutely NOTHING with that physical energy without the motivation and mental energy! What about a stimulant?
Posted by Crazy Horse on November 27, 2006, at 14:34:12
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » ronaldo, posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 13:26:00
I mentioned that about Lyrica..it's true. High dose is needed for an antidepressant effect and also for energy. Google 'high dose Lyrica' and read for yourself. Good Luck.
-Monte
Posted by willyee on November 27, 2006, at 14:54:51
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » willyee, posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 12:25:15
> Thank you so muhc Willyee!!! It sure feels horrible.
>
> cf
I know its obvious im gonna recomend or ask about my drug,but have you tried parnate,if your tried provigil i think i know what type of feel your looking for,and parnate usualy works best for people who are laid out,as in staying in bed,dragging themselves etc.Nardil is a lil more for the anxious avoidant type,i of course recomend parnate.I know i speak a lot about how much trouble i have with it,but remember im on it 5 years now,however even now with the lowered effectivness i can still usualy count on it when im in a HOLE,i refer to a whole as one step deeper than the average hell we fight everyday,the HOLE is when you feel your in serious serious trouble.At these times i raise the dose,or add klonopin,HOWEVER ive yet to not become stuck in one.
Other than that,id ask have u looked into provigils cousin,adfranil i believe is its name,or even olimifion something along these lines,it was out before provigil and some say it holds more of a long term stimulant effect.
Posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 15:12:08
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » corafree, posted by rosa63 on November 27, 2006, at 14:01:33
Tks Rosa.
What 'stimulants' .. could you enlighten me a bit further?
I thought Provigil was 'a stimulant'.
cf
Posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 15:30:59
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by willyee on November 27, 2006, at 14:54:51
Willyee, RU in the discussion above about Adrafanil? I'm not sure I can/should get it.
Have written down olimifion, parnate.
Appreciate suggestions 'may' share w/ P.
Also, out of the discussion above on Adrafanil, Lyrica arose. I'm on a low dose of Lyrica and sounds like I should increase.
I did only stay on the Provigil less than 2wks. Might should have given it more time.
I feel 'too confused' to put my thoughts into correct wording to communicate to P. Ya' know, I feel ill-equipped to express how I feel about which med.(?)
All I know 4sure, want to lower Valium dose.
tks4beinghere, cf
Posted by blueberry on November 27, 2006, at 17:26:14
In reply to Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 12:05:39
Modafinil usually, but not always, gives decent results. But trying to find one drug that fits everyone is kind of like trying to find one shoe size that fits everyone. It just won't happen.
Could modafinil have worked? Maybe. Some people need 400mg a day. In clinical trials they go 6 to 12 weeks on it, not 2 weeks. Modafinil and adrafinil both can provide immediate benefits, but their true efficacy doesn't kick in until about 3 to 4 weeks and then continues to improve with each passing week. In a perfect world anyway.
I wonder if you were starting effexor near the same time as modafinil? Were you taking both at the same time? If so, there is a good possibility there was some kind of drug-drug interaction you experienced. Maybe the way effexor made you feel worse just drowned out any early benefits modafinil might have had. Maybe modafinil somehow increased effexor levels so what you were feeling were effexor side effects. Modafinil probably would have sped up the clearance of valium from you system, so that could be something involved too. Or it could be the action of valium negated what modafinil was trying to do, which would have required a higher dose of modafinil to overcome it. Who knows. Complicating stuff.
I'm so sorry you feel so horrible. Man I can relate bigtime. You aren't alone. Personally, when a med makes me feel worse right at the start, like effexor and you, I say forget it and move on. But that's just me.
You should call your doc for an emergency meeting and really go over meds in detail. Somewhere in your bad responses to previous meds are clues as to where to go from here. I wish I knew more of your history.
Posted by Jost on November 27, 2006, at 18:38:47
In reply to Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 12:05:39
Hi, Corafree.
I'm sorry to hear you're so low.
It occurred to me, having read SLS's posts about Lyrica-- to ask how much you're taking and how long you've been on it.
Scott said he had a very depressive reaction to it-- maybe you can check some of his many posts about his reactions.
Is it possible the Lyrica is affecting you negatively and even negating the positive benefits of provigil. Modafinil isn't a super-strong drug-- and will help only if you aren't so exhausted or enervated or depressed that it can lift your mood or energy.
Maybe this combination isn't the right one for you?
Jost
Posted by Crazy Horse on November 27, 2006, at 19:06:05
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » corafree, posted by Jost on November 27, 2006, at 18:38:47
> Hi, Corafree.
>
> I'm sorry to hear you're so low.
>
> It occurred to me, having read SLS's posts about Lyrica-- to ask how much you're taking and how long you've been on it.
>
> Scott said he had a very depressive reaction to it-- maybe you can check some of his many posts about his reactions.
>
> Is it possible the Lyrica is affecting you negatively and even negating the positive benefits of provigil. Modafinil isn't a super-strong drug-- and will help only if you aren't so exhausted or enervated or depressed that it can lift your mood or energy.
>
> Maybe this combination isn't the right one for you?
>
> JostScott had a bad reaction to Lyrica. He's the only person that i know of that had a 'bad response' to this drug. Please don't quit w/out first giving high dose 500-600mgs. of Lyrica a chance-it could be just the right drug for you. I swear by it..I was suicidal before i got to 500 mgs. Low dose made me feel Lousy, i almost quit it at 50mgs t.i.d., thank God i didn't. So please just give it a chance. If you get to the 500mg. mark in 2 divided doses and don't get the energizing feeling, then taper down and go off.
-Monte
Posted by Morhoun on November 27, 2006, at 19:40:11
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » rosa63, posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 15:12:08
Provigil is a stimulant but I believe it's the weakest one. You may have just been experiencing the come down of the stimulant. You might try Adderall XR or Concerta if you want to do the stimulant thing. They can be tricky though, they can make you more emotional and even the extended release versions can still have a crash period at some point in the day. Stimulants generally don't become more effective with time like ADs, they usually work right away or they don't. Potentially smoother stimulating drugs might be Abilify, Desipramine, Wellbutrin or Parnate. Smoother in the long run that is. The acclimation period can of course be tough.
I have to wonder if the Valium is doing more harm than good. Seems to be a lot of GABA action with the drug combos you are on and they can make things worse long term. Ditch the provigil and try a better stimulant, if that doesn't help look for a different class of meds that hit NE and/or DA. I believe Effexor does that but at higher doses and after some time when the NE effects kick in.
> Tks Rosa.
>
> What 'stimulants' .. could you enlighten me a bit further?
>
> I thought Provigil was 'a stimulant'.
>
> cf
Posted by Phillipa on November 27, 2006, at 19:43:40
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by Morhoun on November 27, 2006, at 19:40:11
Corafree aren't you still on pain meds too? I agree a consult with your doctor is in order as soon as possible. Love Phillipa ps Parnate is an MAOI.
Posted by Jost on November 27, 2006, at 21:17:04
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » Jost, posted by Crazy Horse on November 27, 2006, at 19:06:05
Let me clarify: I'm not making any suggestion about taking any action.
My only question was if it *could" be the Lyrica-- I simply think it's important to consider the possiblities.
It may very well not be Lyrica-- although I'd also be a bit surprised if the Provigil caused greater depression.
Usually, there isn't the coming-down feeling with Provigil, though, because it doesn't generally give you much of a high.
How much provigil, and when do you take it Cf?
Have you noticed any intensification of the depression as the provigil goes out of your system?
Jost
Posted by Crazy Horse on November 28, 2006, at 0:56:13
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by Morhoun on November 27, 2006, at 19:40:11
> Provigil is a stimulant but I believe it's the weakest one. You may have just been experiencing the come down of the stimulant. You might try Adderall XR or Concerta if you want to do the stimulant thing. They can be tricky though, they can make you more emotional and even the extended release versions can still have a crash period at some point in the day. Stimulants generally don't become more effective with time like ADs, they usually work right away or they don't. Potentially smoother stimulating drugs might be Abilify, Desipramine, Wellbutrin or Parnate. Smoother in the long run that is. The acclimation period can of course be tough.
>
> I have to wonder if the Valium is doing more harm than good. Seems to be a lot of GABA action with the drug combos you are on and they can make things worse long term. Ditch the provigil and try a better stimulant, if that doesn't help look for a different class of meds that hit NE and/or DA. I believe Effexor does that but at higher doses and after some time when the NE effects kick in.
>
>
>
> > Tks Rosa.
> >
> > What 'stimulants' .. could you enlighten me a bit further?
> >
> > I thought Provigil was 'a stimulant'.
> >
> > cf
>
>Provigil is not a stimulant. It is usually used for narcolepsy. It is not a controlled substance as Adrafinil (it's cousin) is not a CS.
I agree, i think you are gettig too much valium, i wouldn't go completely off it, but a gradual taper could help a lot.
-Monte
Posted by Crazy Horse on November 28, 2006, at 1:04:12
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by ronaldo on November 27, 2006, at 13:04:47
> Hi corafree,
>
> Sorry you are feeling so low. I hope the sun begins to shine for you real soon.
>
> Provigil = Modafinil = metabolite of Adrafinil
>
> I'm sorry the Provigil did not work for you. If Provigil was not a positive experience then maybe Adrafinil would not work either...
>
> Unfortunately I am not clued up enough to understand properly the difference between Adrafinil and Modafinil.
>
> ...ronaldoronaldo, what exactly is the difference between the two? Do they work differently? Which one is stronger? Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated. :)
-Monte
Posted by Crazy Horse on November 28, 2006, at 11:26:50
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by Crazy Horse on November 28, 2006, at 1:04:12
My pdoc explained provigil like this 'It's like drinking a strong cup of coffee but without the jitters' It's not a miracle drug for someone who is deeply depressed..you may need a real stimulant like dexidrime(sp?). But i wouldn't expect much from provigal..it's good for narcolepsy, and afternoon fatigue, but it's not going pull someone out of a deep depression
-Monte
Posted by corafree on November 30, 2006, at 15:10:50
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by Crazy Horse on November 28, 2006, at 11:26:50
Posting 2 explain reason not participating in thread. SO (of 11yrs) left me & I'm grieving. Didn't want 2 worry or suggest disinterest. W/o u, my best friends, here, I'd not have tools 2 tap into capability and way to recovery. But, at this time, I can't 'do my part' here. Pls forgive me.
cf
ps: Provigil 'is working'; just needed higher dose.
Posted by KayeBaby on November 30, 2006, at 21:04:26
In reply to Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by corafree on November 27, 2006, at 12:05:39
> Why would Provigil do nothing? I could feel nothing. Or, maybe I felt some fatigue. Is that possible?
Yes-it is possible. When I first took provigil at 100 or 200mg just on occasion I got a little mood lift and if I was sleep deprived it did help a little. As I took it more often and after trying it at higher dosages I noticed that I just felt...kind of stoned or flat. Glazed over. No lift in mood, clarity or alertness.Don't know what the two drugs share in common but I have this same issue with Wellbutrin.
At the 75 or 100mg dose it's just great, subtle but real improvement in mood. At 300mg I was just..Flat is the only way I know to describe it..souless and without dimension.
It took me awhile to figure out that it was the WB making me feel despondant like that (duh) Honestly, that was the first time I had ever been close to suicidal. Ritalin-while swell at first does this same thing to me.
Corafree, I'm sure you are upset about your partner leaving but I think that you will feel better after the provigil is out of your system.
Also-just a thought-but the Lyrica is not a drug that permits me to half-*ss it. I either take it every 4-6 hrs. and at the amount my body requires (which varies) or forget it! I will be in withdrawal. I am not looking forward to getting off Lyrica because the w/d I have experienced is a pervasive "I suck, you suck-everything sucks" feeling coupled with just wanting to lay there tired and weak feeling.
Also my face swells up.
This is one way I know if I am not taking enough of it. It is a noticeable chipmunk cheeks type of edema.> is I am really really down there in the >depths. Just on ridiculous E-XR 1 a day, then >Val 25mg total but 3x a day, and still 75mg >Lyrica for sleep.
> I was feeling better before I began E-XR. And yep if had to say how I felt on Provigil .. I'd say I felt more fatigued than I already am.
>
> Just dragged myself out of bed to post this.
>
> Hope no one here feels as depressed and lonely as me.
>
> love, cf
I sure hope you are feeling better.
Peace,
Kaye
Posted by corafree on December 1, 2006, at 3:18:47
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by KayeBaby on November 30, 2006, at 21:04:26
I can't help myself out of this one . . . still awake .. very late .. afraid to sleep .. afraid to wake up. I give up. Called P as havin' 'somebody left me' anxiety, and he gives me 1mg of Xanax for 10 days ... had an anxiety attack and didn't even touch it. Lucky it wasn't a real heart attack, for him .. nah for me. It's someone elses turn. (I mean, not mine this time, not yours this time; it's their turn!) Maybe go to hospital. No one to talk to. But they will take away my cigarettes and I'll get so sick (really). I give up.
cf
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2006, at 17:49:07
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed, posted by corafree on December 1, 2006, at 3:18:47
Corafree they will let you smoke at designated times and maybe they will give you a nicotine patch or the gum too? That's not a good reason for not going to a hospital if that's where you need to be now. Love Phillipa
Posted by corafree on December 1, 2006, at 23:55:59
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » corafree, posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2006, at 17:49:07
No it probably isn't, but it's mine and I'm stickin' to it. No I know that's not funny.
There are 'no beds' in this valley. I've asked more than once. There are a lot of people much worse than I in them. Then I suppose there are some like me that managed to get in.
The only good hospital stay I have had was one where I used my medical insurance and paid $800 for the 30day stay.
Someone said they're not like this anymore re: all $ to war.
Nice comfortable get-together rooms w/ TV, newspaper, vending machines. Good meals and vites .. geared to help your medical body return to good health .. to help hold that head on so you can get 'it' better. Medical staff caring for u as well as psych staff. A neurologist to check u out. Blood tests and maybe followups. Always someone 'to talk to if you were having trouble'. Groups to just talk or groups where someone would come in and speak. I've been there and that WAS good .. that helped me. I left knowing I'd been cared for well and helped re: meds or whatever the best they could.
My last stay was so awful. Very bad non-nutritious food, no vites. (I wrote Boo*t and yogurt on my meal sheet, knowing my nutrition was bad, and everyone sayin, "How'd you get that?", and I'm thinking to myself everyone should! A very detached staff. You had to bang on the glass windows (Is anyone thinking of 'One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest'?) and make them dislike you to get attn. Usually told "just go to your room and someone will come get you when blah blah blah ... and no one would come! I mean they'd just forget u were even there. Cement floors, cold. I was told the latter (go to your room) after asking for my Valium (I'm hyperventilating badly and top of my head felt like it was going to blow up!), bein' told had to wait for doc's call becuz he forgot to write in chart. (That happened too often!) I walked down that cold cement floor hanging onto those rails on the wall and turned to go in my room, and 'saw the floor just go out from under me'; ya' know, that feelin' b4 you're going to pass out, and I screamed 'help! help! help!' as I was weak and if I didn't hold onto the rail tightly I'd pass out and hit my head on that cement floor! (Just what I didn't need!?). I'd been hyperventilating so badly, my blood pressure went down(?) (Is it called hypotension?) Well, my screams got everyone's attn and they came running. Took me back to sit in a chair where they could see me and put head down and I waited, seemed like forever, thought head was 'gonna go' at any time! Finally given Valium and 'poof..all better'! (I often wonder if I'd been left in that state for very much longer, might something irreversible have happened to my mind?) Yeah, not a good place, hospital in the county 'system' I didn't have to pay for (LIKE I EVER WOULD!). This was last March when had nervous breakdown. Didn't have much choice as was so ill. Geeez .. need to shut up.
Hey .. tomorrow I'm going 'returning' shopping! Support daughter coming over in morn' w/ 'Starbucks I hope to wake me'. Oh and go get my hair flat ironed.
Oh I forgot. Big news! Today I drove to the office and picked up samples of Provigil. Yeah. Then came home, passed out snuggled in Dad's throw, until awoke an hr ago, and wanted to talk to you.
I see P next week. I think I'll be okay 'cuz I have you guys caring 4 me and it warms my heart and that keeps me strong and wanting to perservere.
cf
Posted by corafree on December 2, 2006, at 1:17:22
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » corafree, posted by Jost on November 27, 2006, at 18:38:47
U see I'm going back and reading posts.
I've kept in mind Scott's trouble w/ Lyrica from the beginning.
I was given it for the herniated/extruded discs in my back by a med doc.
Came home and saw Scott's thread. At that time it was helping him. Saw his posts that it wasn't.
I'm just now trying to follow a timely regimen of Lyrica and Provigil.
I'd like to try stay on it a couple more weeks as nothing has gone wrong yet.
My worry is that Valium, along w/ pain meds I take, is suppressing Provigil, thereby my needing a higher dose.
I wish to curtail Valium and begin to titrate off Eff-XR. P appt next week to discuss.
Tks for taking time to bring to my attn!
cf
Posted by corafree on December 2, 2006, at 1:43:08
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » corafree, posted by blueberry on November 27, 2006, at 17:26:14
I'm breaking the 'THREE POST' rule, I think, well maybe not since I changed subject a bit.
Geez .. I've come close to gettin' in troub' b4 .. hmmm.
I read posts. Tks all for thoughts & very interesting info which I appreciate.
The dose was too low.
I found out when I thought to myself 'well I can't just give up, lucky P even agreed to let me try', and, I just took two tablets.
Shazaam .. I was doing my dishes. I could feel it giving me energy or activation or whatever.
Now it's a couple days later, and, oh, I already said this above, I mean behind, geez I don't know, probably next.(?)
uallrgreat, cf
Posted by Crazy Horse on December 2, 2006, at 7:47:27
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » Jost, posted by corafree on December 2, 2006, at 1:17:22
> U see I'm going back and reading posts.
>
> I've kept in mind Scott's trouble w/ Lyrica from the beginning.
>
> I was given it for the herniated/extruded discs in my back by a med doc.
>
> Came home and saw Scott's thread. At that time it was helping him. Saw his posts that it wasn't.
>
> I'm just now trying to follow a timely regimen of Lyrica and Provigil.
>
> I'd like to try stay on it a couple more weeks as nothing has gone wrong yet.
>
> My worry is that Valium, along w/ pain meds I take, is suppressing Provigil, thereby my needing a higher dose.
>
> I wish to curtail Valium and begin to titrate off Eff-XR. P appt next week to discuss.
>
> Tks for taking time to bring to my attn!
>
> cfNow you're talking! Good decisions i believe. Giving Lyrica (remember it takes high dose) a good trial..smart. To curtail valium (maybe replace it w/xanax that you said made you feel 'better'), and getting of effexor..smart. Of course you'll need to replace your effexor w/another A.D. You will need higher dose provigil because of high dose narcs and valium, this is true. Sounds like you are making some positive changes that my guess/hope will start you onto the road of recovery! :)
-Monte
Posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2006, at 19:15:34
In reply to Re: Provigil 'did nothing'(?) ... Deeply Depressed » corafree, posted by Crazy Horse on December 2, 2006, at 7:47:27
Corafree I hope so. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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