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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kitkat124 on November 23, 2006, at 22:59:38
Dear dr. bob
my daughter is 10 years old and recently been diagnsed with A.D.H.D and i have now noticed she pulls little pieces of her hair out i need to know if this is caused from her medicine or her disorder or is it a whole new disorder please help me help her not to be bald at later age thank you
kathy
Posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 23:23:54
In reply to Why does my daugher pull her hair out?, posted by kitkat124 on November 23, 2006, at 22:59:38
I'm not Dr. Bob, but I'll answer anyohow.
Compulsive pulling off hair is deemed a psychopathology: a variant of OCD called TRICHOTILLOMANIA.
I personally belive it is a whole new disorder she is unfortunately experiencing.
Treatments include:
OCD medications, and atypical antipsychotics.
Psychotherapy, of any nature, seems to be not helpful (From what I have read)
Best,
Ace
> Dear dr. bob
>
> my daughter is 10 years old and recently been diagnsed with A.D.H.D and i have now noticed she pulls little pieces of her hair out i need to know if this is caused from her medicine or her disorder or is it a whole new disorder please help me help her not to be bald at later age thank you
>
> kathy
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 11:44:05
In reply to Re: Why does my daugher pull her hair out? » kitkat124, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 23:23:54
My Daughter did it years ago required an operation as she ate the hair. She's never done it since. Guess the hospital scared her. Love phillipa
Posted by Racer on November 24, 2006, at 15:17:39
In reply to Why does my daugher pull her hair out?, posted by kitkat124 on November 23, 2006, at 22:59:38
Welcome to Babble!
This is a peer support forum, so Dr Bob really doesn't answer questions here. He's the moderator, who makes sure we're civil to one another, and will sometimes comment on something, but most of the information comes from other posters here.
There are a lot of awfully knowledgeable folk here, and a fair few who have studied these things more formally. And, of course, a lot of us have first hand knowledge of the disorders or treatments we're discussing.
Ace gave you the same answer I would have -- trichotillomania. It's a compulsive pulling out of hairs. Treatments would start with OCD type medications, like SSRIs, and they can be very effective. I strongly urge you to get your daughter to a really good child psychologist and child psychiatrist. The sooner she gets the appropriate treatment, the better the outcome for her. I'm not saying there's something "wrong" with your daughter, that she needs a psychiatrist -- I'm saying that the best outcomes for most of these things that start in childhood comes from getting the appropriate help as soon as possible. "Wait and see" is a bad option for something like this, because it tends to get worse, not better. "She'll grow out of it" is probably fiction -- it's much more likely to get worse, and harder to treat.
As for trich, though, my husband has it. (He'll deny this, by the way.) In my husband's case, he pulls out his eyebrows, eyelashes, and beard hairs. The eyebrow and eyelashes he doesn't pull constantly, but his beard hairs -- OH MY! lol It does stop him from growing a beard, but it's still distressing for me. He swears up and down that this isn't trich, that he *has to* pull out the hairs, because "they get too thick," but that's apparently pretty consistent with the disorder.
As for the seriousness of the disorder, in the general scale of things it's probably no worse than my reaction to having sticky hands -- really just an OCD symptom, but in the case of trich it can become much more cosmetically apparent. OCD itself isn't necessarily a terrible problem, by the way. A lot of the stereotypical things don't happen for everyone -- the hand washing, etc. In my case, most of the compulsive behaviors aren't even apparent to anyone -- the volume on the TV has to go to an even number, I need exactly three paper towels to dry my hands in a public bathroom, I can't stand having sticky hands (although I can delay washing them long enough that even my husband didn't learn that for years), etc. If your daughter does actually have or is actually developing OCD, it's quite possible that it will never get any worse than it is for me.
And, there's also a possibility that this isn't actually trichotillomania. This could be a sign of anxiety, perhaps in response to the wrong dose of a medication, or just in response to being treated differently because of her recent diagnosis. (Or her perception that she's being treated differently since the diagnosis...) The best way to find out is to get her to a skilled professional for evaluation.
This has to be so hard for you, but remember: it's not a reflection on your parenting that she's having trouble -- it is a reflection on your good parenting that you're getting her the treatment she needs, to minimize any adverse impact this might have on her. Best luck to you.
And again, welcome to Babble!
Posted by stargazer on November 24, 2006, at 18:53:29
In reply to Why does my daugher pull her hair out?, posted by kitkat124 on November 23, 2006, at 22:59:38
Newly diagnosed with ADHD? What med was she put on and did the hair pulling start after the med was begun? I would call the doc who prescribed the med since if it is a new symptom it could be a side effect and perhaps the med needs an adjustment in dosage or change in med.
Those are the types of symptoms you need to report to the MD before assuming it is a new diagnosis.
Good luck.
Stargazer
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 20:22:04
In reply to Why does my daugher pull her hair out?, posted by kitkat124 on November 23, 2006, at 22:59:38
Wait a minute seems like everyone wants something to either be med related or psychatrically realated. Didn't you ever do things like crinkle your nose as a kid? Or decided stepping on a crack was backluck. I'd wait as like I said before my Daughter did it once only. And when she did it it was only one time. Love Phillipa
Posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 21:05:26
In reply to Re: Why does my daugher pull her hair out? » kitkat124, posted by Racer on November 24, 2006, at 15:17:39
"She'll grow out of it" is probably fiction -- it's much more likely to get worse, and harder to treat.
This is a very good point, and I agree 100%.
Let's get to these problems early on.Bona-fide psychiatric illness, rarely, if ever, go away.
They are life time diseases.
Posted by verne on November 24, 2006, at 21:42:48
In reply to Why does my daugher pull her hair out?, posted by kitkat124 on November 23, 2006, at 22:59:38
I have borderline personality disorder and did a lot of self injury cutting in my 20's and early 30's. As a child my hair/eyebrow pulling, headbanging at night, and chewing my fingers (not just nails) went almost unnoticed. I also used to pinch myself and leave bruises.
I saw a documentary on borderline personality disorder and some of the patients pulled their hair out - especially the younger ones. Something to consider.
verne
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 22:13:38
In reply to Borderline? Self Injury (trigger) » kitkat124, posted by verne on November 24, 2006, at 21:42:48
I used to bang my knuckles on the hard floor til they swelled for attention and carve initials in my arms. I was told that until a certain age a person can't be considered borderline as it's not uncommon for attention seeking kids. Do you know anything about it? Love Phillipa
Posted by kitkat124 on November 24, 2006, at 22:27:13
In reply to Re: Borderline? Self Injury (trigger) » verne, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 22:13:38
Thank you all for your input on my daughter i am always worried about her my son died 3 years ago in a dirt bike accident and her and my son was very close i did have her in theropy for a while but as time went on i thought she was alright but she still has her break downs and really bad nerves me and my husband never argue but if we even disagree on anything she starts screming like she is going to have a nervous breakdown i just want the best for my daughter and i wont stop until i have it thank you again.( kathy )
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 22:31:07
In reply to Re:why does my daughter pulls her hair out, posted by kitkat124 on November 24, 2006, at 22:27:13
I'm so sorry. I wish you had included this in your original post. It sounds almost as if it's a form of grieving and anxiety. Do you over protect her? I know I would if something horrible like that happened to me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on November 25, 2006, at 12:41:56
In reply to Borderline? Self Injury (trigger) » kitkat124, posted by verne on November 24, 2006, at 21:42:48
I had something like this myself. Nevertheless I would *not* want a child of mine labelled like this. I suppose it depends on the severity.
But I wouldn't be expecting help, nor looking for it, from western medicine.
Posted by Declan on November 25, 2006, at 13:03:59
In reply to Re: Borderline? Self Injury (trigger), posted by Declan on November 25, 2006, at 12:41:56
I meant western conventional psychiatric medicine of the standard sort. The description and naming(!) of symptom clusters, the prognosis, the life long treatment and so on.
If I had a kid who was 10 and pulling his/her hair out I would, perhaps wrongly, wonder if he/she was desperate. That was the case with me at that age (not with hair), so maybe it's a bias.
Posted by Jost on November 25, 2006, at 13:10:49
In reply to Re:why does my daughter pulls her hair out, posted by kitkat124 on November 24, 2006, at 22:27:13
It's possible that some therapy would help with her emotional meltdowns.
At her age, it's easier to intervene successfully, because the patterns haven't become so ingrained, and she may find it easier to take in help.
I also think it's important to realize that we (here, on babble) each has our own history-- but we don't know the full range of possible outcomes for any symptom.
Symptoms can mean many things-- and lead to many outcomes-- for reasons that no one now understands. I do think taking some action to change things at this early stage is vital-- if the problems and great disruptions to her and your family's life have continued and not eased over time since that traumatic loss.
Low-tech solutions are best tried first. I would try a therapist, and maybe then a pdoc-- but my personal instincts are to go down that road very very conservatively, and not without second opinions-- and doing research. Also, using a therapist and pdocs who are highly trained for work with children.
There's an article in the NY Times from this week, which is really a cautionary tale for overmedicating children. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/23/health/23kids.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1164481709-qrc5guxCv+oVTPheuoCXdA
(The examples in the article are extreme, and I offer it only to suggest care in using drugs. If you can't see the article, let me know and I'll put the text up.)
Jost
Posted by Declan on November 25, 2006, at 14:11:46
In reply to Re: Why does my daugher pull her hair out? » Racer, posted by ace on November 24, 2006, at 21:05:26
And (of course) there is a chance that the ADHD meds are implicated.
Posted by Caedmon on November 25, 2006, at 15:10:44
In reply to Why does my daugher pull her hair out?, posted by kitkat124 on November 23, 2006, at 22:59:38
Gonna agree with the last few of the posters.
She's young. We don't know the extent, frequency, severity of the hair pulling. Yet we're ready to say "oh she has disorder X and needs treatment Y"
kitkat I *don't know* why your daughter pulls her hair. I do this. What I do is called trichotillomania. For me, it is NOT an OCD-like tendency. For ME, it is more like an "impulse control disorder" although I dislike calling it that too. (I don't like calling everything I do a disorder!) For me, a general reduction in anxiety and depression levels has helped.
For some people the trichotillomania is a compulsion similar or part of OCD. For some people it is anxiety related. But nobody knows very well why it occurs. There is surprisingly little study on it.
When I was about 10 I used to feel really compelled to say certain speech sounds. Usually they were back consonants like "k" and "g". I just felt better when i did. It didn't make any real "sense" in the traditional way. It was a habit. I would repeat them over and over. I did that for a while and then stopped.
I used to imagine lines continuing from the edges of tables and other angular objects. I would sometimes intersect them in my mind or imagine them stretching to infinity. Just a habit though. I don't do this anymore, and grew out of it pretty quickly.
I used to avoid cracks in the sidewalk. Of course.
I used to ritualistically 'balance' how pressure felt on my body i.e. if I touched a doorway with one hand I wanted to touch it, with equal force, with the other hand. Sometimes I would repeat this until I was sure I had touched the threshold with equal force. By the time I was maybe 13 or 14 I had grown out of it.All of this, wayyy before meds or therapy or psychiatry trying to label me as eternally disordered in some way. Sometimes people *do* grow out of it.
Hair pulling is probably more distressing to see in your child than nail-biting or hair-twirling. If your daughter is forming bald patches or bleeding at the follicles then I would seek treatment.
Either way, it is something to bring up with the doctor on your next visit.
It does sound like your daughter has a lot of stress she is dealing with internally and that's very sad. :( I hope you can continue to help her out. Sometimes if you find the right therapist/counselor for a child, it just "clicks" and they can move on and be happier. However it works out, I really wish you, and her, the very best.
- Chris
Posted by Quintal on November 25, 2006, at 18:33:24
In reply to Re: Borderline? Self Injury (trigger) » verne, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2006, at 22:13:38
I carved names and patterns in my arms a few times in my early twenties. Are the scars visible on your forearms Phillipa? If anyone else has this, how do you deal with the stigma, questions etc? The pdoc says I have many borderline traits, but that they don't suffer from social anxiety (?) so that isn't my problem.
I remember going through a phase of head banging and hair pulling when I was a kid. I think it was a way of dealing with frustration and distracting myself whenever my mother was sick and had to go into hospital.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on November 25, 2006, at 18:55:30
In reply to Re: Borderline? Self Injury (trigger) » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on November 25, 2006, at 18:33:24
Quintal no they were very superficial. Usually a paperclip while in a boring assembly in junior high school. No visible scarring on my arms. Of course the knuckle banging left no scares And when I was l4 I babysat once and poured a bit of alchohol from all the different kinds available in an empty coke bottle and hid it in my closet. Once when My Mother got sick again I drank it and then with a razor made three slashes in my thigh. I was horrified as the alchohol had made me not conscious of the deed. So I had to show my parents bleeding bad and was taken to the doctor who said nothing a put a butterfly bandage on it. Nothinging further was ever said by my parents or doc but you can still see the scars. But let me tell you I scared myself and never did anything like this again. So I still think kids do these things when scared about their future or parents health or in rebellion. By the way I was fine till age 50 when my thyroid went. But panic in my twenties. So I am not a borderline in my opinion I was just a scared kid. My parents should have not allowed all the stress for me to see. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on November 25, 2006, at 20:00:45
In reply to Re: Borderline? Self Injury (trigger) » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on November 25, 2006, at 18:55:30
>Once when My Mother got sick again I drank it and then with a razor made three slashes in my thigh. I was horrified as the alchohol had made me not conscious of the deed.
I was under the influence of GHB when I cut myself and I think pain was altered so it felt good in some way. Wish I'd chosen a more inconspicuouis part of my body, but maybe that was the point? I don't remember thinking about wanting attention though, more a release of frustration and anger.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on November 25, 2006, at 20:17:40
In reply to Re: Borderline? Self Injury (trigger) » Phillipa, posted by Quintal on November 25, 2006, at 20:00:45
Yes I've heard borderlines say they can't stand the pain and the act what is seen somehow relives the pain. I didn't feel that way. Just angry that there was no one there for me. I think if we want to continue this subject it should be in private as it may upset others. So babblemail and exchange e-mails or just babblemail? Love Phillipa
Posted by chiron on November 26, 2006, at 21:37:25
In reply to Re: Why does my daugher pull her hair out? » kitkat124, posted by ace on November 23, 2006, at 23:23:54
I have trich if you need any info. Depression and trichotillomania have been shown to be "related." I haven't found any drugs that subside the urge to pull out my hair. Luckily I have a lot of hair so it goes unnoticed.
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