![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 13:54:44
Sometimes I get a little preachy when it comes to how scientific data should be responsibly interpreted.
I'm sorry. I forget that there are all kinds of people here, and not all of them have my educational experiences.
I wish that biomedical studies could PROVE things, sometimes. It would be nice if we could take away uncertainty. It would be nice if we could ask our doctors what we can expect in terms of recovery time and side effects.
I have only been taking psych drugs since May? and when I first started, I wanted to know things with certainty.
My search for knowledge is what led me to psycho-babble in the first place, and I remember my stress and disillusionment when I read about everyone's mixed experiences, complicated diagnoses and treatment plans that seemed to fail more often than they succeeded.
I don't want to take away anybody's dream of finding the drug or the therapy that will end their pain. I forgot that I was writing to people and not to a student or a colleague.
I submit as evidence the fact that I have pulled through a major depression that lasted some 4 months. My depressive symptoms are only sporadic, and my quality of life is pretty good nowadays. I give much credit to my medication, and also to psychotherapy. I have a long-term goal in psychotherapy too, that I wouldn't have even conceived of a few months ago- I want to learn to feel and express emotions in a healthy way, and also to put my traumatic childhood in a new context where I can feel some mastery over myself, instead of allowing myself to become a victim over and over again.
So, there's a happy story for psycho-babble. I think it's happy anyways.
I'm so sorry if I wrote something that challenges anyone's dream to feel better, live their lives more fully, or reclaim their minds.
yours,
-Li
Posted by zeugma on October 26, 2006, at 14:37:08
In reply to I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry, posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 13:54:44
> Sometimes I get a little preachy when it comes to how scientific data should be responsibly interpreted.
>
>
> I wish that biomedical studies could PROVE things, sometimes. >>some call this 'epistemological prudery.'
i just call it the reason i can't finish my dissertation.
-z
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 14:40:11
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » Lindenblüte, posted by zeugma on October 26, 2006, at 14:37:08
> > Sometimes I get a little preachy when it comes to how scientific data should be responsibly interpreted.
> >
> >
> > I wish that biomedical studies could PROVE things, sometimes. >>
>
> some call this 'epistemological prudery.'Gesundheit!
> i just call it the reason i can't finish my dissertation.
>
> -zi'll finish yours if you finish mine...
-Li
Posted by zeugma on October 26, 2006, at 14:48:10
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » zeugma, posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 14:40:11
offer gladly accepted.
-z
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 14:57:16
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » Lindenblüte, posted by zeugma on October 26, 2006, at 14:48:10
> offer gladly accepted.
>
> -zOh goody!
you think my committee will notice the switch?you think you've lucked out, because I've already defended my proposal and collected my data....
hahaha!!! hope you know stats well. I'm thinking...mmm maybe Chi-square is a little too simplistic. How about a loglinear model?
Oh- and did I mention that one member of my committee smells bad?
Z- tell me what I'm getting myself into-- do I have to collect bat guano on top of some mountain in the dry part of an underwater cave?
Do I have to work with rats? I'm allergic!!! (although- gotta admit my seroquel is a pretty fine antihistamine)
Do I have to work with kids? ancient texts? is there artwork involved?!?
uh oh! I'm getting scared...
-Li
Posted by willyee on October 26, 2006, at 15:01:18
In reply to I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry, posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 13:54:44
>
> I'm sorry. I forget that there are all kinds of people here, and not all of them have my educational experiences.
>
> My search for knowledge is what led me to psycho-babble in the first place, and I remember my stress and disillusionment when I read about everyone's mixed experiences, complicated diagnoses and treatment plans that seemed to fail more often than they succeeded.
>
> I don't want to take away anybody's dream of finding the drug or the therapy that will end their pain. I forgot that I was writing to people and not to a student or a colleague.
>
Dont you just love a apology that is worse than the initial insult lol.
Posted by zeugma on October 26, 2006, at 15:19:52
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » zeugma, posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 14:57:16
you'll have to work with kids, ancient texts, possibly a close study of Dutch culture.
Any insight into hydrodynamics would be appreciated.
Do maps count as artwork?
I can always fudge the statistics. And nobody knows me at my department, so it should be relatively easy to insinuate myself into yours (and vice versa).
-z
Posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2006, at 21:13:40
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » Lindenblüte, posted by zeugma on October 26, 2006, at 15:19:52
I've never had enough education for a dissertation. And would you believe I don't want a dissertation I just want to feel better and be normal. What is that. Do I need to have that higher education to know what normal is? I truly don't know. Love Phillipa
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 22:04:31
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry, posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2006, at 21:13:40
> I've never had enough education for a dissertation. And would you believe I don't want a dissertation I just want to feel better and be normal. What is that. Do I need to have that higher education to know what normal is? I truly don't know. Love Phillipa
Phillipa, I don't want a dissertation either, but it seems a shame not to have one. If I quit now, it will take 3 times longer and 10 times more effort, should I ever decide I need or want a PhD.
I just want to feel better and normal too :)
I think that's something a lot of us have in common. education is nice. but feeling good is nicer.
Posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2006, at 22:39:17
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » Phillipa, posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 22:04:31
Li at your age I definitely agree about the education and your perserverance at getting so much done with so much going on in your life. And yes we all want to feel better. Love Phillipa ps when your're rich and famous will you still talk to me? (you know I'm kidding right?)
Posted by gardenergirl on October 26, 2006, at 22:49:17
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » zeugma, posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 14:40:11
> > i just call it the reason i can't finish my dissertation.
> >
> > -z
>
> i'll finish yours if you finish mine...Hey, can I get in on that?
gg
Posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2006, at 23:25:53
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » Lindenblüte, posted by gardenergirl on October 26, 2006, at 22:49:17
Geez you guys are all too smart for me. Love Phillipa
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 9:14:46
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » Lindenblüte, posted by zeugma on October 26, 2006, at 15:19:52
> you'll have to work with kids, ancient texts, possibly a close study of Dutch culture.
Oh Goody! All my favorite things. I know a title already!
"On the kinesiology and history of multi-strand jumproping: Double-Dutch past and present"
I think starting a dissertation with "On the" is so wonderfully pompous... ahh... makes me want to wear tweed and smoke a pipe...just like the academics in the good old days.
> Any insight into hydrodynamics would be appreciated.
>
> Do maps count as artwork?You betcha!
>
> I can always fudge the statistics. And nobody knows me at my department, so it should be relatively easy to insinuate myself into yours (and vice versa).
>
Yeah, you can fudge the statistics for sure, because my profs won't really catch on, as long as the graphs look compelling. And since you'll be fudging statistics, you might as well fudge the graphs too. Science becomes "art"? yeah. That would be cool :)One problem is that I'm fairly well-known. We may need to do some stagecraft to make sure that you don't get exposed. I'm thinking a lot of facial bandages that you have to wear for a while? You can tell people that Li got a "cosmetic procedure" and fail to elaborate. Big sunglasses, hats, hoods, you know?
oooh, this is going to be good!
I'm almost looking forward to the defense date!
-Li
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>
>
>
>
Posted by Klavot on October 27, 2006, at 9:17:41
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry, posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2006, at 23:25:53
> Geez you guys are all too smart for me. Love Phillipa
No! You should stop selling yourself short by saying these things, Phillipa. I often see you writing these kinds of things about other people being too smart for you etc.; you are damaging your self-esteem with all this negative reinforcement.
Klavot
Posted by ronaldo on October 27, 2006, at 9:27:55
In reply to I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry, posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 13:54:44
No offence taken,Lindenblues. Feel free to soap your box as much as you want to. No offence intended.... ;-)
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 9:50:31
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry, posted by Klavot on October 27, 2006, at 9:17:41
Klavot,
I have to agree strongly with you. Phillipa puts herself down too much. From her consistently supportive presence on babble, I have gained a lot. Phillipa is very kind and caring. I'm sure that as a nurse, she has a LOT of technical and procedural knowledge that the rest of us would be awed by (except that Phillipa rarely writes things about herself like that!).Phillipa- smartness is not something that they "teach" you. There are tons of incredibly intelligent persons who end up leaving the educational system before they get a professional or doctoral degree. Sometimes I look at my colleagues and am amazed at how little "common sense" they have. Seriously- I know a PhD who can't cook a box of macaroni and cheese without certain disaster!
Personally, I often wonder (worry?) if the only reason I'm here is because I was too scared to go out and try and get a real job. I'm terrified, actually of being on the job market for the first time- as green as a high school freshman scooping ice cream for her summer job- only I'll be a Dr. Li and they'll give me responsibilities and expect impressive things. StReSs!!!
oh well. back to the grind.
-Li
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 9:54:21
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry » Lindenblüte, posted by ronaldo on October 27, 2006, at 9:27:55
> No offence taken,Lindenblues. Feel free to soap your box as much as you want to. No offence intended.... ;-)
I feel really sad that I distressed another Babbler recently. I'm glad to hear that you weren't offended, Ronaldo. I really try hard not to be too abrasive, even when I have strong opinions about something. I just feel really bad about something I wrote, and I felt the need to start my own thread to apologize.
sometimes I feel there's a fine line between supporting a babbler, and supporting one's own agenda. I crossed over that line, and I regret it.
-Li
Posted by Klavot on October 27, 2006, at 10:22:35
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry, posted by Phillipa on October 26, 2006, at 23:25:53
In fact Phillipa, I reckon that you know more about psychiatry and psychopharmacology than the average general physician.
Klavot
Posted by ronaldo on October 27, 2006, at 11:36:24
In reply to Apologies, posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 9:54:21
> > No offence taken,Lindenblues. Feel free to soap your box as much as you want to. No offence intended.... ;-)
>
> I feel really sad that I distressed another Babbler recently. I'm glad to hear that you weren't offended, Ronaldo. I really try hard not to be too abrasive, even when I have strong opinions about something. I just feel really bad about something I wrote, and I felt the need to start my own thread to apologize.
>
> sometimes I feel there's a fine line between supporting a babbler, and supporting one's own agenda. I crossed over that line, and I regret it.
>
> -LiHi Li,
I'm in the happy position that I don't know enough to start an argument or discussion. Agonists and antagonists and -ergic organic molecules and receptors are all Greek to me. I'd like to know what they mean but so far I haven't found a website rudimentary enough to cater for my intellect... I reckon someone, with enough knowledge, should start a thread to teach the basics of psychopharmocology. Then, maybe, we could all understand each other! Would you like to volunteer?
...ronaldo
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 17:35:47
In reply to Re: Apologies » Lindenblüte, posted by ronaldo on October 27, 2006, at 11:36:24
>I reckon someone, with enough knowledge, should start a thread to teach the basics of psychopharmocology. Then, maybe, we could all understand each other! Would you like to volunteer?
>
> ...ronaldo
>This is a very kind invitation. However, I must defer. Psychopharm in practice seems to be very different from psychopharm in theory, and psychopharm in my experience is none of the above. (and I don't know *hardly* anything about the first two anyways!)
If I were going to start such a thread, it might start like this.
Your brain is a big liquidy organ inside your head. There are many chemical and electrical signals within the brain, and the brain sends and recieves chemical and electrical signals with all other parts of the body.Our brains are as different as our faces. Some people's faces are symmetrical, some people's aren't. Some people have a really prominent brow, other people don't.
Like our faces, our brains change a lot in the first 3 years following conception, and then they change a lot in the teenage years also. Our brains change gradually with adulthood and into the senior years. But brains, like faces, develop and age at different rates, depending on a variety of factors, like our genetic endowment, our exposure to carcinogens, nutrition, trauma, and other experiences.
Psychopharmacology seeks to change how the brain transmits signals and communicates information. Sometimes the brain runs short of a chemical, or a neuron that connects two areas withers or becomes inefficient. Sometimes there's too much of something.
It gets pretty complicated though. Imagine our world 6 billion people. A lot of different ways to communicate information, and a lot of different ways to accomplish "World Peace". Why are we at war? it's rarely as simple as changing a single neuron (person) or group of neurons (country) or neurotransmitter (language). Why are we at war? Is it because of a global energy shortage in years to come? Is it because "w" wasn't communicating efficiently with Saddam Hussein? How can we effect world peace?
Well, the interesting thing is that if we design a "drug" (it binds to receptors and doesn't let messages through.) that will fit in the ear canals of all humans, and then we make everyone wear it. Well, things will change. Maybe some good things will happen, but some bad things might happen too- babies may never learn to speak. AND there are many other ways of communicating, besides through the ears. (I think I remember reading that serotonin is the main neurotransmitter in the gut)
Well, my point is that the nervous system is an incredibly intricate and flexible communicative system. Block one channel, and another one will compensate, to the extent that it can (babies don't access the internet to learn language).
Also, the nervous system has evolved to use the same molecule over and over in different ways (serotonin in the gut to coordinate the bowels) serotonin in the (God help me? locus coeruleus to modulate the tone of of the neurons that must somehow affect mood?) etc etc. norepinephrine affecting cardiac activity, but also many other types of activity.
earplugs, internet connections, megaphones, etc.
I like analogies. Mostly, I'm compensating for a lack of knowledge.
-Li
Posted by willyee on October 27, 2006, at 18:37:04
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry Phillipa » Klavot, posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 9:50:31
Youre are very right there,i know i have been chopped how like a tree from job level to job level by my anxiety mostly during the beginning,finally i looked around,saw where i was,,where i had come from,and where i should be,and it just turned my stomach,made it hard to do my job and the customers desrvered my attention,good thing i am a total slug and cling to my trade and also become social when i talk about it,so it never effected them,but man walking into work was very hard knowing the money i was loosing just pulling up to the job.
I say this cause i know im not the only one.
Posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2006, at 20:13:41
In reply to Re: Apologies » ronaldo, posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 17:35:47
Li I like that and guess what I think I could understand you. I'd give you a B+ compared to the experts I don't understand. You would make a great pharmo teacher. Teach us please!!!!!!!. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2006, at 20:15:28
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry Phillipa, posted by willyee on October 27, 2006, at 18:37:04
Willee you can be a sweetie when you want to. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2006, at 20:26:59
In reply to Re: I got a little soapboxy. I'm sorry, posted by Klavot on October 27, 2006, at 9:17:41
Klavot how sweet of you!!!! Thanks so much. Love Phillipa
Posted by ronaldo on October 29, 2006, at 12:40:03
In reply to Re: Apologies » ronaldo, posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 17:35:47
This is the end of the thread.
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