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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 18:35:05
First the OCD question: my husband's GP has "diagnosed" him with OCD, and put him on antidepressants -- for depression, but also for the OCD. (I'm not entirely sure about the dx -- sometimes I think Asperger's fits better, but he's definitely OCD*ish*) Lexapro and Effexor, so far, and they haven't helped, but did cause constipation and the Lex interfered with sleep, the Effexor caused flatulence. Now the doctor is trying Wellbutrin. I'm happy enough about that, for a number of reasons -- it's a fair drug, and has been my true good and faithful friend -- but I wonder at the reasoning behind trying that for OCD? I'm betting it's a case of "SSRI didn't work, SNRI didn't work, try Wellbutrin," which is fine -- but has anyone ever heard of it as useful for OCD? (Just idle curiosity, really...)
The stims/ADHD question is more complex:
A woman in group said something about "well of course valium isn't helping you if you have ADHD -- it makes things work backwards, so if you take a sedative, it will make you wired. You have to take a stimulant to relax." I know that's wrong. I can come up with a million ways to try to explain why it's wrong, and how it's wrong, but they all share something in common: they take way too long to explain, and they probably aren't all that clear to anyone except me. (I think that's a problem for me anyway...) Also, while I know it's wrong, I am not entirely sure I know why it's wrong. (Which further interferes with my explanations ;-D )
Can anyone explain this to me, so that I can explain it better if it comes up again?
Thanks!
Posted by Jost on October 12, 2006, at 21:13:16
In reply to Question about stimulants and ADHD (and brief OCD), posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 18:35:05
Stimulants in the right dose are relaxing to most people-- in the sense that they give you focus, and concentration and reduce restlessness or distraction. That applies whether you have ADD or not.
I've never heard of the valium-makes-you-wired syndrome, though.
How 'bout trying out your convoluted explanation and maybe we can help you put it into a great slogan. Or a relatively digestible debating point.
Jost
Posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2006, at 22:21:58
In reply to Question about stimulants and ADHD (and brief OCD), posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 18:35:05
Benzos are to relax you and calm you down and stimulants provide energy for people who aren't overly anxious. Love Phillipa maybe google crazymeds.org?
Posted by saturn on October 13, 2006, at 6:42:06
In reply to Question about stimulants and ADHD (and brief OCD), posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 18:35:05
Benzos may be activating through "disinhibition", though this is likely more the exception than the rule.I personally cannot see how this might correlate to ADHD however.
Posted by Racer on October 13, 2006, at 12:56:04
In reply to Re: Question about stimulants and ADHD (and brief OCD) » Racer, posted by saturn on October 13, 2006, at 6:42:06
>
>
> I personally cannot see how this might correlate to ADHD however.Her thinking, as far as I could tell, was that since stimulants would increase stimulation and calm hyperactivity in someone with ADHD, then something that was supposed to calm someone else would therefor activate someone with ADHD. My answer was simple: the one doesn't follow the other. Just because stimulants are useful for the symptoms of one disorder, does not mean that anxiolytics will exacerbate the symptoms. {If A then B} does not equal {if B then A}. (In other words, my attempt to explain why she was wrong was based on logic, not science...)
In my own experience, benzos are lousy for me when I'm anxious. I think what happens is that their effects make me feel more vulnerable, so I get even more adrenaline going. That's just my thinking on it, it may not be what's happened, but I've had bad experiences with them -- including blackouts -- so I know they can create that sort of problem. And I do settle down better on Ritalin. But while that may be evidence that her thinking has some basis -- I'm not the one she was talking to and about, but I do get more anxious on benzos and calmer on stims -- I don't think it's because my chemistry is such that all drugs will work backwards on me. (In fact, I think that's an idiotic theory...)
OK, so since I've just proven that my attempt to explain the fallacy is pretty pathetic, can anyone give me a better and more accurate explanation?
Thanks!
Posted by getinwl72 on October 25, 2006, at 20:07:14
In reply to Re: Question about stimulants and ADHD (and brief » saturn, posted by Racer on October 13, 2006, at 12:56:04
> > Hey there Racer->I can't give you a better explanation of the above post- It's late, I'm tired and It's a little too Med Wordy for me at 9 pm after a 12 hour day at work, but..
For me, I actually take a stimulant and a Benzo.
I take Adderrall during the day which in fact helps me stay focued, less reactive to dumb stuff, less Irritable, much more productive at work and at home. People like me better, trust me.:-)
However, in the late afternoon as the Adderrall starts to wear off, my anxiety starts to kick in and I take .5 mg of Xanax to get me through the rest of the day, I am still able to concentrate, just without the jitters that were coming.About 2 hours before bed, I take 60 mg of Cymbalta, 100 Mg of Topamax and 1 mg of Xanax. It works for me. I don't really care what the PDR says, the American Psychiatic Association Practicing Guidelines either. When you have taken medications and built up tolerances to them over the years, you have to start getting creative and do what works for you. Hopefully people have doctors that recognize the need to get creative. I am a controlling person by nature and take the lowest possible amount of my medications to function at the highest possible level without feeling drugged. I actually feel good. So, to debunk the theory that Stimulants Either Calm Person A or increase energy in Person B, while Benzos Either calm Person B or increase Energy in Person B is simply not the case. A and B are people and unless you try them alone or together you just wont know for yourself what works. They both calm me and increase energy. It depends on when I take them , alone or together and at what time of day. There are several factors to be considered.
Just my 25 cents on the matter for what it's worth.:-)
> >
> > I personally cannot see how this might correlate to ADHD however.
>
> Her thinking, as far as I could tell, was that since stimulants would increase stimulation and calm hyperactivity in someone with ADHD, then something that was supposed to calm someone else would therefor activate someone with ADHD. My answer was simple: the one doesn't follow the other. Just because stimulants are useful for the symptoms of one disorder, does not mean that anxiolytics will exacerbate the symptoms. {If A then B} does not equal {if B then A}. (In other words, my attempt to explain why she was wrong was based on logic, not science...)
>
> In my own experience, benzos are lousy for me when I'm anxious. I think what happens is that their effects make me feel more vulnerable, so I get even more adrenaline going. That's just my thinking on it, it may not be what's happened, but I've had bad experiences with them -- including blackouts -- so I know they can create that sort of problem. And I do settle down better on Ritalin. But while that may be evidence that her thinking has some basis -- I'm not the one she was talking to and about, but I do get more anxious on benzos and calmer on stims -- I don't think it's because my chemistry is such that all drugs will work backwards on me. (In fact, I think that's an idiotic theory...)
>
> OK, so since I've just proven that my attempt to explain the fallacy is pretty pathetic, can anyone give me a better and more accurate explanation?
>
> Thanks!
This is the end of the thread.
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