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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kimcrazylady on July 10, 2006, at 17:40:44
My drug has always been Parnate. Even when I've gone off it, it always worked again when I went back on. This time, however, it's just not cutting it. I'm on 60mg/day and my pdoc is bumping me to 70 then 80, although my insurance only pays for 60. I may go broke, but it's worth it if it works.
Last fall when I was off Parnate, I tried Provigil and Effexor XR, but got muscle twitches. My pdoc assumed they were from Provigil and took me off after three days. They were the best three days of my life. I got more housework done in those three days than I had in the previous year! The twitches DID NOT go away, but the neurologist could not find anything wrong. I went back on Parnate and now no more twitches! Thing is, I was off Parnate for several months before the twitching began. Anyway, I asked pdoc to add provigil to my parnate since I know some people are doing it, but he won't.
Is anyone out there combining the two? I've found case studies and some posts, but my pdoc doesn't want to take the chance. He's contacted the manufacturer and they won't say one way or another. At least he's trying for me!
What else could I add to Parnate to help my sluggishness and lack of motivation? I am very atypical and TR.
Thanks in advance...
Kim
Posted by Phillipa on July 10, 2006, at 22:11:30
In reply to Parnate not working this time. Add provigil?, posted by kimcrazylady on July 10, 2006, at 17:40:44
Scroll up the board and you'll see Threads from Maxime. She's the same as you. Parnate worked for her and doesn't anymore and she's becoming suicidal. I think the two of you would hit it off and she knows a lot about TR depression. Love Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on July 10, 2006, at 23:50:10
In reply to Re: Parnate not working this time. Add provigil? » kimcrazylady, posted by Phillipa on July 10, 2006, at 22:11:30
I take Provigil with Nardil and Lamictal. It helps me with ADHD symptoms and sleep problems.
My pdoc was cautious about trying it, but she knew I had a BP cuff at home to monitor my BP for the first couple of doses.
gg
Posted by Jost on July 11, 2006, at 5:27:54
In reply to Re: Parnate not working this time. Add provigil?, posted by gardenergirl on July 10, 2006, at 23:50:10
I took provigil with Parnate, without any problems. I was taking 100 mg Parnate, so the dosage wasn't low, either.
My pdoc didn't seem particularly worried about the combination, possibly because he's worked with maois frequently.. I was on the provigil first--but it's not as if he thought I should stop, or cut down.
Jost
Posted by willyee on July 12, 2006, at 1:05:42
In reply to Parnate not working this time. Add provigil?, posted by kimcrazylady on July 10, 2006, at 17:40:44
> My drug has always been Parnate. Even when I've gone off it, it always worked again when I went back on. This time, however, it's just not cutting it. I'm on 60mg/day and my pdoc is bumping me to 70 then 80, although my insurance only pays for 60. I may go broke, but it's worth it if it works.
>
> Last fall when I was off Parnate, I tried Provigil and Effexor XR, but got muscle twitches. My pdoc assumed they were from Provigil and took me off after three days. They were the best three days of my life. I got more housework done in those three days than I had in the previous year! The twitches DID NOT go away, but the neurologist could not find anything wrong. I went back on Parnate and now no more twitches! Thing is, I was off Parnate for several months before the twitching began. Anyway, I asked pdoc to add provigil to my parnate since I know some people are doing it, but he won't.
>
> Is anyone out there combining the two? I've found case studies and some posts, but my pdoc doesn't want to take the chance. He's contacted the manufacturer and they won't say one way or another. At least he's trying for me!
>
> What else could I add to Parnate to help my sluggishness and lack of motivation? I am very atypical and TR.
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> Kim
I added provigil and spent a fortune doing it,unfortunatly for me,all i got was behind the scenes stimulation,meaning no benifit just the negatives which were really only a lessened AD effect from parnate,and worsened insomnia.I feel ur struggle,i cant do ssris,i get worse and dont even stay at a mid point,tcas did nothing,and nardil i cant tolerate.
Ive thought a million times over and cant come up with a single option other than continuing this relentless for me hopeless pursuit of finding a augment for it.I am on 80 mg a day,going back down from it as it did not help to go up from 60 to 80,so i figure why take more drug that dont work,might as well start to get used to the idea of comming off wich scares the hell out of me.
I never experianced the drug having such strong sedation qualites,ok maybe the stimulant ones died down,but in the past years it never made me so weak and tired as it does now,its like they also made some significant change we dont know about.
Anyway before u start provigil,u may want to consider simple caffiene tabs,usualy at ur local 7 11,pure caffiene is the only ingredient,about 200 mg,and form me it worked at the start,now i still get tired i just became immune to the caffiene.But i did get useful months out of it,times when i was working long hrs around xmas,so im glad i did try it.Much cheaper and easier to try then provigil,i personaly found it actualy worth more of the trial,anyway good luck i feel ya dilema.
Posted by tessellated on July 13, 2006, at 7:03:54
In reply to Re: Parnate not working this time. Add provigil?, posted by willyee on July 12, 2006, at 1:05:42
parnate augments:
progivil: works great at low doses $$$ cheaper through internet.
wellbutrin: quite potent at low doses, high sex drive, lowers seizure threshold.desipramine: a good NE aument to discuss with doc, no personal info
reboxetine: also a good NE augment with the potential to lower the likelyhood of hypertention. would like to try myself.
liquid deprenyl: potent, felt it had a direct effect on my heart, so i backed off, but could in theory at low doses work well
amphetamine: is used clinically with parnate for cases of suicidal depression. i've found it potent as hell. once in a while is great for a work binge, but any more frequently the insomnia, acne, and general tweakyness is not good.
xyrem: can be a great combo, particularly for social anxiety/creativity. but hard to dose, and has seizure issues i think parnate enhances in a not so good fashion.
caffeine: good and safe, like provigil, just not as cool.
ritalin: also likely synergistic, though I know nothing about it personally (i've used cocaine though with surprisingly good results-it lasts longer and i don't crash.)
tianeptine: probably a bad idea, but i've been nibbling pieces and it seems to enhance the alertness of parnate.
opiates:generally these are sedating, but the mood enhancement is wonderous and highly synergistic so be careful.
PERSONALLY: what keeps me on parnate i believe is the insomnia. i stay awake for 36hrs, then sleep 10. sleeep deprivation itself has anti depressant characteristics, and now I've just adapted to this pattern and am finding myself the most stable and predictable I've been for ages.
MY CURRENT COCKTAIL:
parnate-200mg per 36 hr period.
provigil: 50 mg as neededcaffiene: in place of provigil. .5-3 cups coffee or equivalent
opiates: usually whatever i can get my hands on. best after a
day of physical labor and during. hydrocodone is particularly stimulating and cheap. buprenorphine sound like the ideal.xanax: .75 for sleep, or trazadone if necessary. however after working for 36 hours i rarely need anything to sleep. so in a way insomnia is the best and worst part of the equation.
trazadone: if xanax is not on hand, 25mg will put me out with a minial hangover, anything near 100mg will leave me in a fog next day.
alchohol: 1-3 beers if social-i don't find very pleasant on parnate though. good to enhance dwindling xanax supplies.
marijuana: i don't find it desirable, but suprisingly good compliment to parnates speedy quality, it mental relaxation can be just the ticket for an evening meal.
OK: so its a heck of a cocktail, but there are a lot of options.
I see parnate as the base upon which augments add color. as it makes everything else extremely potent it's kept my drinking almost down to nothing, as well as helping with my eating habits, creativity, all in all feeling stable and normal. I just rotate augments depending on what i have. I try to avoid the benzo addiction thats so common.whenever i try to do a normal sleeping schedule, i feel zombie like all day regardless of augments unless its an amphetamine.
however when i stay awake 36 hours i feel great at hour 24 even 36 is indistiguishable (i work with powertools) .
MAYBE PARNATE IS FOR ALIEN VAMPIRES.
very strange... i believe it must have to do with the metabolic curve and build up. i only feel its affect after about 12 hours from initial dose. Its rather ironic that people have to take all sorts of sedatives to inhibit its energizing quality in order to sleep like normal peeps. Whereas I just wear the heck out of myself and can sleep like a baby unmedicated.l8
ps: i continue to miss a day on my refils and notice my withdrawl to predominantly be extreme lethargy. makes it difficult to drive the mile to the drug store. luckily its not so emotional on its own, but i also had a break up during a withdrawl and wow! that's a whole other story.
Posted by willyee on July 13, 2006, at 7:19:14
In reply to PARNATE AUGMENTS, posted by tessellated on July 13, 2006, at 7:03:54
> parnate augments:
>
> progivil: works great at low doses $$$ cheaper through internet.
> wellbutrin: quite potent at low doses, high sex drive, lowers seizure threshold.
>
> desipramine: a good NE aument to discuss with doc, no personal info
>
> reboxetine: also a good NE augment with the potential to lower the likelyhood of hypertention. would like to try myself.
>
> liquid deprenyl: potent, felt it had a direct effect on my heart, so i backed off, but could in theory at low doses work well
>
> amphetamine: is used clinically with parnate for cases of suicidal depression. i've found it potent as hell. once in a while is great for a work binge, but any more frequently the insomnia, acne, and general tweakyness is not good.
>
> xyrem: can be a great combo, particularly for social anxiety/creativity. but hard to dose, and has seizure issues i think parnate enhances in a not so good fashion.
>
> caffeine: good and safe, like provigil, just not as cool.
>
> ritalin: also likely synergistic, though I know nothing about it personally (i've used cocaine though with surprisingly good results-it lasts longer and i don't crash.)
>
> tianeptine: probably a bad idea, but i've been nibbling pieces and it seems to enhance the alertness of parnate.
>
> opiates:generally these are sedating, but the mood enhancement is wonderous and highly synergistic so be careful.
>
> PERSONALLY: what keeps me on parnate i believe is the insomnia. i stay awake for 36hrs, then sleep 10. sleeep deprivation itself has anti depressant characteristics, and now I've just adapted to this pattern and am finding myself the most stable and predictable I've been for ages.
>
> MY CURRENT COCKTAIL:
> parnate-200mg per 36 hr period.
> provigil: 50 mg as needed
>
> caffiene: in place of provigil. .5-3 cups coffee or equivalent
>
> opiates: usually whatever i can get my hands on. best after a
> day of physical labor and during. hydrocodone is particularly stimulating and cheap. buprenorphine sound like the ideal.
>
> xanax: .75 for sleep, or trazadone if necessary. however after working for 36 hours i rarely need anything to sleep. so in a way insomnia is the best and worst part of the equation.
>
> trazadone: if xanax is not on hand, 25mg will put me out with a minial hangover, anything near 100mg will leave me in a fog next day.
>
> alchohol: 1-3 beers if social-i don't find very pleasant on parnate though. good to enhance dwindling xanax supplies.
>
> marijuana: i don't find it desirable, but suprisingly good compliment to parnates speedy quality, it mental relaxation can be just the ticket for an evening meal.
>
> OK: so its a heck of a cocktail, but there are a lot of options.
> I see parnate as the base upon which augments add color. as it makes everything else extremely potent it's kept my drinking almost down to nothing, as well as helping with my eating habits, creativity, all in all feeling stable and normal. I just rotate augments depending on what i have. I try to avoid the benzo addiction thats so common.
>
> whenever i try to do a normal sleeping schedule, i feel zombie like all day regardless of augments unless its an amphetamine.
>
> however when i stay awake 36 hours i feel great at hour 24 even 36 is indistiguishable (i work with powertools) .
>
> MAYBE PARNATE IS FOR ALIEN VAMPIRES.
> very strange... i believe it must have to do with the metabolic curve and build up. i only feel its affect after about 12 hours from initial dose. Its rather ironic that people have to take all sorts of sedatives to inhibit its energizing quality in order to sleep like normal peeps. Whereas I just wear the heck out of myself and can sleep like a baby unmedicated.
>
> l8
> ps: i continue to miss a day on my refils and notice my withdrawl to predominantly be extreme lethargy. makes it difficult to drive the mile to the drug store. luckily its not so emotional on its own, but i also had a break up during a withdrawl and wow! that's a whole other story.You know i was going to comment on this haha....youre right,i believe,and im sure this isnt the case for everyone,but for me parnate alone is next to worthless,it needs to be augmented,and depending on what is the execpted result.
When it works,as in this morning,its link klonopin full force with add mood lift.
Getting it to be consistent with the augments is the problem for me.
I also have run low nearing refill,i had a friend in the pharmacy but hes leaving soon,what i do is try to work out a dosing plan and mix in other meds as much as possable to lower the parnate dose as low as possable so i never am actualy not taking ANY even when im close to being out,ive even gone to 3 a day for 2 weeks to keep from at least having it not be in my system at all,the one or two a day seems to at least keep the horrid w/d away.
I continue to wonder,am i on what for now is one of the better drugs for me,regardless of the problems,as id be much worse having it,as i remeber i was.
Or am i a vicitim of a drug that secertly has me locked.Too bad i dont have time to ponder on this too much as its hard enough with life to inculde staying on top of my normal meds doses,refills insurance etc.Doesent leave a lot of time to ponder parnates value,only enough time to make sure i have enough and my refills are at my pharmacy and not late like it has been due to there neglagence in ordering,uh so much fun.
Well this morning im enjoying a break,i feel good and will just ride it out do much as i can and enjoy the day,thank god for these small remission days i value them so.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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