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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rocket Jackson on June 13, 2006, at 9:36:40
Hello all,
After unsuccessful trials with parnate, neurontin, zoloft, gabitril, and topamax for social anxiety, I think I'm finally willing to take the plunge and give nardil a try. I refer to it as a "plunge" because I've been reluctant for years to try it (despite overwhelming evidence of its effectiveness) in light of the prevalent weight gain and sexual side effects. Frustrated with my search for effective treatment, I've decided to give it its due chance and see for myself.
I also need to state that I am currently taking Klonopin 1mg bid, and have been for about two months. Though somewhat effective, it has lost its once appealing "bang" I would notice when taking it once or twice per week before anticipated social situations. This was my regimen for about three years up through a couple of months back when I decided to go daily. I now feel I no longer have my beloved Klonopin "rescue," which is why I continue to look for a daily med that can be supplemented on an as needed basis by Klonopin.
So my question is, what does nardil "feel" like when it kicks in for social anxiety? Is it similar to Klonopin in being anxiolytic but not necessarily pro-social, or is there also a pro-social component that some notice? Is excessive daytime sleepiness a common side effect? This is a problem with daily Klonopin that hasn't abated, and was even worse for me with the parnate. Do the sexual side effects usually wane with time? What about the weight gain? For the latter I'm not sure I'll necessarily have a problem with it, as I've always been on the slim side and continue to exercise. I also wonder if Nardil contributes to weight gain through some biochemical/pharmacological mechanism regardless of diet or exercise, or if it is mostly a result of the strong sugar craving many speak of, thus resulting in weight purely from the excess caloric intake.
Sorry for the lengthy message, but your opinions and experiences are much appreciated. Before I pop that first pill, I just want to be sure. :)
Take care!
Rocket
Posted by Phillipa on June 13, 2006, at 11:37:01
In reply to What does Nardil feel like?, posted by Rocket Jackson on June 13, 2006, at 9:36:40
You want to take Nardil on an as needed basis I don't think you can do that. You take it daily. Love Phillipa
Posted by PsychoPharmaFiender on June 14, 2006, at 0:31:54
In reply to What does Nardil feel like?, posted by Rocket Jackson on June 13, 2006, at 9:36:40
I just started Nardil last thursday, June 8th. I am currently on 45 mg. Its to early for me to give you that much info on it, but I can update it as I go. I have noticed an increase in appetite which is a great thing for me cuz Im really skinny. Ive also noticed periods throughout the day of elevated mood and decreased anxiety/OCD, but nothing consistent yet. What exactly do you mean by "prosocial"
Posted by ZeitGuest on June 14, 2006, at 2:06:33
In reply to What does Nardil feel like?, posted by Rocket Jackson on June 13, 2006, at 9:36:40
Rocket Jackson,
Check out this very interesting thread over at Social Anxiety Support.com:
http://socialanxietysupport.com/viewtopic.php?t=41210&highlight=
The poster -- spaceboy -- describes Nardil as being socially activating, which seems to be what you are referring to when you ask if the drug is "pro-social."
Posted by jedi on June 14, 2006, at 3:51:23
In reply to What does Nardil feel like?, posted by Rocket Jackson on June 13, 2006, at 9:36:40
> After unsuccessful trials with parnate, neurontin, zoloft, gabitril, and topamax for social anxiety, I think I'm finally willing to take the plunge and give nardil a try. I refer to it as a "plunge" because I've been reluctant for years to try it (despite overwhelming evidence of its effectiveness) in light of the prevalent weight gain and sexual side effects. Frustrated with my search for effective treatment, I've decided to give it its due chance and see for myself.
Hi Rocket,
I've tried more than 35 different combinations of medications. The only combo that has worked on my major atypical depression and social anxiety has been Nardil with clonazepam.
> I also need to state that I am currently taking Klonopin 1mg bid, and have been for about two months. Though somewhat effective, it has lost its once appealing "bang" I would notice when taking it once or twice per week before anticipated social situations. This was my regimen for about three years up through a couple of months back when I decided to go daily. I now feel I no longer have my beloved Klonopin "rescue," which is why I continue to look for a daily med that can be supplemented on an as needed basis by Klonopin.So are you taking a total of 2mg of clonazepam daily? I take 1mg daily to augment my 90mg of Nardil(sometimes 105mg). I have lost the somnolence side effect and the "sigh" of relief that I got from taking clonazepam PRN(as needed). But the benefit for my chronic social anxiety is still there.
> So my question is, what does nardil "feel" like when it kicks in for social anxiety? Is it similar to Klonopin in being anxiolytic but not necessarily pro-social, or is there also a pro-social component that some notice?
Nardil plus clonazepam is definately the most pro-social combination of meds that I have ever taken. For me the Nardil takes four to six weeks to kick in after I have titrated up to an effective dosage. So obviously there is an investment in time just like any other AD trial. You do not get the almost immediate relief like when taking a benzo PRN. Sometimes, when Nardil does kick in, it is unlike any other medication I have taken. The first couple of times I took Nardil it was like "seeing the light", when it kicked in. One day I was in hopeless despair. The next day the answers to my problems were so obvious, I could not believe that I din't see them before.
>Is excessive daytime sleepiness a common side effect? This is a problem with daily Klonopin that hasn't abated, and was even worse for me with the parnate.
Right now I am getting some pretty extensive daytime solomnence with Nardil. This latest trial, I titrated up to 90mg fairly quickly. Probably in just a couple of weeks. I really wanted to get to that effective dosage as fast as possible. I paid the price with some more intense side effects than in the past. I know from experience that the daytime sleepiness will lessen over time. Clonazepam has a long half life. If your daytime solomnence is bad on clonazepam, I would suggest taking your whole dose in the evening. Again this sleepiness side effect should dissipate over time.
>Do the sexual side effects usually wane with time?
For me the sexual side effects consist mainly of delayed ejaculation. For most guys, that's not all bad. I have never had a problem with arousal on the medication. A few times the delayed ejaculation turned into an inability to ejaculate, this was short lived for me.
>What about the weight gain? For the latter I'm not sure I'll necessarily have a problem with it, as I've always been on the slim side and continue to exercise. I also wonder if Nardil contributes to weight gain through some biochemical/pharmacological mechanism regardless of diet or exercise, or if it is mostly a result of the strong sugar craving many speak of, thus resulting in weight purely from the excess caloric intake.
The weight gain has been my main problem while on Nardil. The only way I've been able to contol it is with intense exercise most every day. I have lost weight while on Nardil, but it really takes a concentrated effort. I think for me the weight gain is mostly a result of the intense carbohydrate cravings.
Just my experiences,
Jedi
Posted by cecilia on June 14, 2006, at 7:38:36
In reply to What does Nardil feel like?, posted by Rocket Jackson on June 13, 2006, at 9:36:40
What does Nardil feel like? For me, absolutely nothing until day 38, then the world's worst headache, horrible eye pain, pain in every muscle and joint. For some reason, these effects did not make me feel eager to go out and be social. Cecilia
Posted by Rocket Jackson on June 14, 2006, at 8:56:32
In reply to Re: What does Nardil feel like? » Rocket Jackson, posted by Phillipa on June 13, 2006, at 11:37:01
> You want to take Nardil on an as needed basis I don't think you can do that. You take it daily. Love Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
Sorry if I wasn't clear on that one. I will be taking Nardil three times per day, with Klonopin either on a daily or as needed basis.
On another note, I love to see you hanging around and posting on this forum. There really is a cast of interesting and inspiring "characters" here that makes it so fun and helpful. So keep sticking around!
Rocket
Posted by Rocket Jackson on June 14, 2006, at 9:12:23
In reply to Re: What does Nardil feel like?, posted by PsychoPharmaFiender on June 14, 2006, at 0:31:54
> I just started Nardil last thursday, June 8th. I am currently on 45 mg. Its to early for me to give you that much info on it, but I can update it as I go. I have noticed an increase in appetite which is a great thing for me cuz Im really skinny. Ive also noticed periods throughout the day of elevated mood and decreased anxiety/OCD, but nothing consistent yet. What exactly do you mean by "prosocial"
Thanks for your post. Please keep us updated with your Nardil experiences. I hope it works out for you.
"Prosocial" definitely wasn't a state I had ever experienced until I first started a Klonopin/Provigil combo on an "as needed" basis a few years back. All I can say is, WOW. Having suffered from social anxiety for as long as I can remember, I had never felt the desire to actually be proactive or assertive in a social setting, which is what I guess I mean by "prosocial:" to me, it's a feeling beyond just having decreased anxiety in this kind of setting, but rather also having the desire or urge to actually initiate a conversation and even enjoy it. For me, Klonopin decreased the anxiety substantially, while the Provigil added a subtle stimulant (or "anti-sedation") effect that seemed to tip the scales in favor of being more social. Without the Provigil I'm still much more comfortable socially, but the slight sedation (which has decreased with continued use) seems to keep me more at bay in my comfort zone. I am hoping the Nardil might have this kind of "prosocial" effect.
Thanks again for your input. I'll keep my fingers crossed for your Nardil success. Please keep us posted!
Take care,
Rocket
Posted by Rocket Jackson on June 14, 2006, at 9:14:22
In reply to Re: What does Nardil feel like?, posted by ZeitGuest on June 14, 2006, at 2:06:33
> Rocket Jackson,
>
> Check out this very interesting thread over at Social Anxiety Support.com:
>
> http://socialanxietysupport.com/viewtopic.php?t=41210&highlight=
>
> The poster -- spaceboy -- describes Nardil as being socially activating, which seems to be what you are referring to when you ask if the drug is "pro-social."Thanks ZeitGuest. I'll be sure to check out this site.
Rocket
Posted by Rocket Jackson on June 14, 2006, at 10:14:18
In reply to Re: What does Nardil feel like? » Rocket Jackson, posted by jedi on June 14, 2006, at 3:51:23
> > After unsuccessful trials with parnate, neurontin, zoloft, gabitril, and topamax for social anxiety, I think I'm finally willing to take the plunge and give nardil a try. I refer to it as a "plunge" because I've been reluctant for years to try it (despite overwhelming evidence of its effectiveness) in light of the prevalent weight gain and sexual side effects. Frustrated with my search for effective treatment, I've decided to give it its due chance and see for myself.
>
> Hi Rocket,
> I've tried more than 35 different combinations of medications. The only combo that has worked on my major atypical depression and social anxiety has been Nardil with clonazepam.
>
> > I also need to state that I am currently taking Klonopin 1mg bid, and have been for about two months. Though somewhat effective, it has lost its once appealing "bang" I would notice when taking it once or twice per week before anticipated social situations. This was my regimen for about three years up through a couple of months back when I decided to go daily. I now feel I no longer have my beloved Klonopin "rescue," which is why I continue to look for a daily med that can be supplemented on an as needed basis by Klonopin.
>
> So are you taking a total of 2mg of clonazepam daily? I take 1mg daily to augment my 90mg of Nardil(sometimes 105mg). I have lost the somnolence side effect and the "sigh" of relief that I got from taking clonazepam PRN(as needed). But the benefit for my chronic social anxiety is still there.
>
> > So my question is, what does nardil "feel" like when it kicks in for social anxiety? Is it similar to Klonopin in being anxiolytic but not necessarily pro-social, or is there also a pro-social component that some notice?
>
> Nardil plus clonazepam is definately the most pro-social combination of meds that I have ever taken. For me the Nardil takes four to six weeks to kick in after I have titrated up to an effective dosage. So obviously there is an investment in time just like any other AD trial. You do not get the almost immediate relief like when taking a benzo PRN. Sometimes, when Nardil does kick in, it is unlike any other medication I have taken. The first couple of times I took Nardil it was like "seeing the light", when it kicked in. One day I was in hopeless despair. The next day the answers to my problems were so obvious, I could not believe that I din't see them before.
>
> >Is excessive daytime sleepiness a common side effect? This is a problem with daily Klonopin that hasn't abated, and was even worse for me with the parnate.
>
> Right now I am getting some pretty extensive daytime solomnence with Nardil. This latest trial, I titrated up to 90mg fairly quickly. Probably in just a couple of weeks. I really wanted to get to that effective dosage as fast as possible. I paid the price with some more intense side effects than in the past. I know from experience that the daytime sleepiness will lessen over time. Clonazepam has a long half life. If your daytime solomnence is bad on clonazepam, I would suggest taking your whole dose in the evening. Again this sleepiness side effect should dissipate over time.
>
> >Do the sexual side effects usually wane with time?
>
> For me the sexual side effects consist mainly of delayed ejaculation. For most guys, that's not all bad. I have never had a problem with arousal on the medication. A few times the delayed ejaculation turned into an inability to ejaculate, this was short lived for me.
>
> >What about the weight gain? For the latter I'm not sure I'll necessarily have a problem with it, as I've always been on the slim side and continue to exercise. I also wonder if Nardil contributes to weight gain through some biochemical/pharmacological mechanism regardless of diet or exercise, or if it is mostly a result of the strong sugar craving many speak of, thus resulting in weight purely from the excess caloric intake.
>
> The weight gain has been my main problem while on Nardil. The only way I've been able to contol it is with intense exercise most every day. I have lost weight while on Nardil, but it really takes a concentrated effort. I think for me the weight gain is mostly a result of the intense carbohydrate cravings.
>
> Just my experiences,
> Jedi
>Hi Jedi,
Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with Nardil. This is extremely helpful.
Just curious- why have you stopped taking Nardil in the past? Was it the side effects? Poop out? And have you experienced any insomnia while on Nardil? Mine was pretty intense with parnate, but as you probably know it has significantly different properties, namely with the amphetamine-like metabolites. I would feel a surge of uncomfortable energy in the late morning/early afternoon followed by a "crash" into the early evening. Then sleep that night would inevitably be light and broken, with crazy ruminating thoughts and dreams. I'm not sure if this is typical of the MAOIs as a group or is more specific to parnate.
Thanks again for your input. I hope the Nardil/Klonopin combo continues to work well for you.
Take care,
Rocket
Posted by jedi on June 14, 2006, at 11:26:04
In reply to Re: What does Nardil feel like? » jedi, posted by Rocket Jackson on June 14, 2006, at 10:14:18
> Just curious- why have you stopped taking Nardil in the past? Was it the side effects? Poop out? And have you experienced any insomnia while on Nardil? Mine was pretty intense with parnate, but as you probably know it has significantly different properties, namely with the amphetamine-like metabolites. I would feel a surge of uncomfortable energy in the late morning/early afternoon followed by a "crash" into the early evening. Then sleep that night would inevitably be light and broken, with crazy ruminating thoughts and dreams. I'm not sure if this is typical of the MAOIs as a group or is more specific to parnate.
Rocket,
The main reason I keep trying other combinations is the weight gain issue with Nardil. Unlike you I have struggled with my weight, mostly from severe atypical depression. It is always a risk going off Nardil, because 1: You wonder if you will be able to recover the antidepressant effect, and 2: You wonder if you will be able to find a MD who will prescribe it again.I do suffer from some insomnia with Nardil. Usually it is at it's worse when first starting the medication again. Insomnia is worse if I succumb to the urge for the late afternoon nap. I haven't tried modafinil for this, usually a cup of coffee gets me through it. My guess would be that modafinil would be a good augmentation for Nardil. I look at the 6 or 7 hours of sleep per night as a sign of recovery. When my atypical depression is at it's worse, I will often sleep from twelve to fourteen hours per day. Some of this is just an escape mechanism for the pain of depression. When I do need a sleep aid, usually diphenhydramine hydrocloride(Benadryl) works for me. I can't take it every night or the somnolence effect wears off. I also get rebound insomnia after taking Benadryl for several days in a row and then quitting. I used to take trazodone for the insomnia, but I really dislike the drugged feeling of this medication. The feeling often would still be with me the next morning-not good!
Good luck with your Nardil trial. For some of us it is the only medication that works.
Take care,
Jedi
Posted by mack2099 on April 29, 2009, at 9:46:25
In reply to Re: What does Nardil feel like? » jedi, posted by Rocket Jackson on June 14, 2006, at 10:14:18
> > > After unsuccessful trials with parnate, neurontin, zoloft, gabitril, and topamax for social anxiety, I think I'm finally willing to take the plunge and give nardil a try. I refer to it as a "plunge" because I've been reluctant for years to try it (despite overwhelming evidence of its effectiveness) in light of the prevalent weight gain and sexual side effects. Frustrated with my search for effective treatment, I've decided to give it its due chance and see for myself.
> >
> > Hi Rocket,
> > I've tried more than 35 different combinations of medications. The only combo that has worked on my major atypical depression and social anxiety has been Nardil with clonazepam.
> >
> > > I also need to state that I am currently taking Klonopin 1mg bid, and have been for about two months. Though somewhat effective, it has lost its once appealing "bang" I would notice when taking it once or twice per week before anticipated social situations. This was my regimen for about three years up through a couple of months back when I decided to go daily. I now feel I no longer have my beloved Klonopin "rescue," which is why I continue to look for a daily med that can be supplemented on an as needed basis by Klonopin.
> >
> > So are you taking a total of 2mg of clonazepam daily? I take 1mg daily to augment my 90mg of Nardil(sometimes 105mg). I have lost the somnolence side effect and the "sigh" of relief that I got from taking clonazepam PRN(as needed). But the benefit for my chronic social anxiety is still there.
> >
> > > So my question is, what does nardil "feel" like when it kicks in for social anxiety? Is it similar to Klonopin in being anxiolytic but not necessarily pro-social, or is there also a pro-social component that some notice?
> >
> > Nardil plus clonazepam is definately the most pro-social combination of meds that I have ever taken. For me the Nardil takes four to six weeks to kick in after I have titrated up to an effective dosage. So obviously there is an investment in time just like any other AD trial. You do not get the almost immediate relief like when taking a benzo PRN. Sometimes, when Nardil does kick in, it is unlike any other medication I have taken. The first couple of times I took Nardil it was like "seeing the light", when it kicked in. One day I was in hopeless despair. The next day the answers to my problems were so obvious, I could not believe that I din't see them before.
> >
> > >Is excessive daytime sleepiness a common side effect? This is a problem with daily Klonopin that hasn't abated, and was even worse for me with the parnate.
> >
> > Right now I am getting some pretty extensive daytime solomnence with Nardil. This latest trial, I titrated up to 90mg fairly quickly. Probably in just a couple of weeks. I really wanted to get to that effective dosage as fast as possible. I paid the price with some more intense side effects than in the past. I know from experience that the daytime sleepiness will lessen over time. Clonazepam has a long half life. If your daytime solomnence is bad on clonazepam, I would suggest taking your whole dose in the evening. Again this sleepiness side effect should dissipate over time.
> >
> > >Do the sexual side effects usually wane with time?
> >
> > For me the sexual side effects consist mainly of delayed ejaculation. For most guys, that's not all bad. I have never had a problem with arousal on the medication. A few times the delayed ejaculation turned into an inability to ejaculate, this was short lived for me.
> >
> > >What about the weight gain? For the latter I'm not sure I'll necessarily have a problem with it, as I've always been on the slim side and continue to exercise. I also wonder if Nardil contributes to weight gain through some biochemical/pharmacological mechanism regardless of diet or exercise, or if it is mostly a result of the strong sugar craving many speak of, thus resulting in weight purely from the excess caloric intake.
> >
> > The weight gain has been my main problem while on Nardil. The only way I've been able to contol it is with intense exercise most every day. I have lost weight while on Nardil, but it really takes a concentrated effort. I think for me the weight gain is mostly a result of the intense carbohydrate cravings.
> >
> > Just my experiences,
> > Jedi
> >
>
> Hi Jedi,
>
> Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with Nardil. This is extremely helpful.
>
> Just curious- why have you stopped taking Nardil in the past? Was it the side effects? Poop out? And have you experienced any insomnia while on Nardil? Mine was pretty intense with parnate, but as you probably know it has significantly different properties, namely with the amphetamine-like metabolites. I would feel a surge of uncomfortable energy in the late morning/early afternoon followed by a "crash" into the early evening. Then sleep that night would inevitably be light and broken, with crazy ruminating thoughts and dreams. I'm not sure if this is typical of the MAOIs as a group or is more specific to parnate.
>
> Thanks again for your input. I hope the Nardil/Klonopin combo continues to work well for you.
>
> Take care,
>
> Rocket
I have been taking Nardil for 22 years, Its the only mned which seems to help. Ordinarily, I experience weight gain very easily while on nardil unless i exercise. When I exercise streneously on a regular basis (like 15-20 minutes at 75% or more of target heart rate which for me is heartrate of 130 to 140). When I do this exercise twice a day, it makes nardil almost like a diet drug and I lose weight easily. If I slack off on the exercise, my cravings for sweets and carbohydrates comes back. Has anyone else experienced this?? Please respond, thanks, Mack
Posted by adiaphora on July 2, 2009, at 14:48:43
In reply to Re: What does Nardil feel like?, posted by mack2099 on April 29, 2009, at 9:46:25
:
> I have been taking Nardil for 22 years, Its the only mned which seems to help. Ordinarily, I experience weight gain very easily while on nardil unless i exercise. When I exercise streneously on a regular basis (like 15-20 minutes at 75% or more of target heart rate which for me is heartrate of 130 to 140). When I do this exercise twice a day, it makes nardil almost like a diet drug and I lose weight easily. If I slack off on the exercise, my cravings for sweets and carbohydrates comes back. Has anyone else experienced this?? Please respond, thanks, MackDear mack2099,
I don't know if you are still looking for feedback on this, but here goes just in case:I have been on Nardil for about 6 weeks now and, while I have experienced a host of the other common side effects--e.g., insomnia, afternoon tiredness, lack of libido, dry mouth--have had no trouble with carbohydrate cravings or weight gain. Am quite sure this is the case re: carbohydrate cravings because (surprise, surprise for someone on an MAOI) I have been on numerous other medications that brought them about and I distinctly remember the unpleasant sensation of from one to day to the next feeling a huge increase in appetite. I sm also, for what it's worth, someone who had a good size (80 pounds) issue w/ AD weight gain over ten years or so of various regimens, so it is not something by which I have never been touched.
Of course I am only telling you this because I too exercise at the level and frequency you are talking about and have also (unfortunately, without access to a decent library) been spending some time trying to figure out this atypical reaction. The only other thing that has occurred to me is that I was already taking B-complex and B6 vitamins before I started the Nardil. Do you by any chance do the same thing?So that (at great length-sorry!) is that. Hope it helps to have hear of someone with a similar experience!
Posted by GreenP on March 28, 2010, at 22:56:10
In reply to Re: What does Nardil feel like?, posted by mack2099 on April 29, 2009, at 9:46:25
I've had trouble with the carb cravings as well. My sweet tooth is so bad I wake up in the middle of the night to eat candy. I will tear through a candy bar like it's my last meal. But I found when I started Nardil that I was actually able to exercise longer, which is weird. Exercise definitely boosts this drug's efficacy. I will exercise for about 20 minutes a day in my target heart rate as well. And I also have trouble with my weight. I eat cereal in the morning, an egg sandwich for dinner, and then something bad (like a pastry) afterward. Not the healthiest way to live, but also not that high of a calorie intake. So it definitely makes weight loss tricky.
This is the end of the thread.
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