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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
If you tell your doc that you do think about it, are they obligated to hospitalize you or require counseling? I could admit to my doctor that I've thought about it every day for the past month, but definitely will not attempt.
My reasoning is that I do not have to quick, easy, surefire method of doing so. I realize that the failure rate is pretty high, even if I did have a chosen and trusted method.
If I were to fail, my life would be worse. I'd be hospitalized, have to drop out of school, and be labeled as "suicidal" by family, friends, and doctors. I'm smart enough to avoid all that as to not worsen my depression and life situation!
If I told my doctor that, how do you think he would respond? Urgently? Or is it pretty common for depressed people to at least have the idea floating through their minds at times?
Posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2006, at 12:50:15
In reply to How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
You kind of answered your own question if you're afraid of being labeled suicidal by family and friends and that it would wosen your depression It sounds like a plead for help. He might consider hospitalization for a med change or intense conselling and a med change. I think you need to let him know . Call your doc or a crisis line. Love Phillipa
Posted by fairywings on May 29, 2006, at 12:53:37
In reply to How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
Hi Jealibeanz,
I hope you won't hurt yourself - I hope you get some help and don't get to a place where you would want to take action.
It's important to tell your pdoc how you're feeling. It's my understanding they won't hosp. you unless you're in imminent danger - if you say you def. won't do it, I think he'll take your word for it. On the other hand, by telling him, he might be able to help you feel better.
I hope he can help you feel better, when do you see him?
fw
Posted by pseudoname on May 29, 2006, at 13:11:02
In reply to How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
You can ask him, like a hypothetical, how he responds to suicidal questions, etc. If he (so typically!) "answers" by asking you if you're suicidal, you can honestly say No -- say you just want to know so if you do get that way you'll know what to expect.
It's usually okay: If you say you occasionally have suicidal ideation, they'll ask you to agree to get help (911, etc) before taking any action. If you agree, they're off the hook: you've agreed to get help if you need it. If you DON'T agree, they're still off the hook: what more could they possibly do with someone who's not suicidal now?
My former pdoc made me sign one of those stupid suicide contracts. (Well, I think they're stupid for me. They might influence some people to get help, so that would be good.)
The therapist I had 2 years ago spelled it all out in writing at our first or second meeting: when he'll call the police, when he won't, etc. I appreciated that.
Posted by Caedmon on May 29, 2006, at 13:16:42
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations? » jealibeanz, posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2006, at 12:50:15
I think it generally depends on if you are spending time thinking about HOW you might kill yourself, if you have a plan or a timeline, etc. If a person does have a plan and timeline they may be hospitalized; if it is more nihilistic ideation or thoughts then I think that outpatient crisis counseling/ med change is usually recommended.
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/
- Chris
Posted by blueberry on May 29, 2006, at 13:29:45
In reply to How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
A doctor can put you in the hospital if you have a plan and/or a time and you admit you could do it. I was suicidal in the emergency room once, I did have a plan, but not a time, and I admitted I probably couldn't actually carry it out. They counseling me, put a bandaid on it, and sent me home with the option of a partial hospital stay if I chose to.
You should, I think, share your feelings with the doctor. To not do so is to be dishonest to the doctor and to yourself.
They don't want to be so inadequate as to have their patients kill themselves. They are in fear of lawsuits also. They really can't adequately treat you unless they know what they are dealing with. Be honest and it may step up their efforts.
Slipping over the edge from severe depression to suicidal attempt is a thin line that can happen without warning. Been there done that. You need a pledge to yourself in an emergency...call 911, call a crisis hotline, or get to the hospital.
You also need the doctor's office and/or a friend and/or a family member to contact you every single day to just talk. Call a church and have someone from there call you every day. It only works in your favor when you are honest.
What happens in the aftermath of a hospital stay is temporary. Suicide is permanent. Get the daily contact going, get a pledge going, and be honest with the doctor. You will get through it.
Posted by heaven help me on May 29, 2006, at 13:30:04
In reply to How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
I agree that counseling is a very good idea. Be patient with your counselor and over time you usually can get a more accurate outlook on life and a much greater sense of well-being. (however, if your counselor stinks-try them 3 times, then switch). So, this may take some time, but at least you know you are taking posisitve action and you can be proud of that and feel good about that. Step by step.
I see a counselor (4 years now) and it has helped tremendously.
blessings
mary
Posted by nickguy on May 29, 2006, at 14:26:59
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by blueberry on May 29, 2006, at 13:29:45
Jealieanz,
I know how you feel, and it will get better. All this will look a lot different to you in the future. Anyway, tell your doc that you think about it. It will show him the severity of your situation, and may open up doorways to essential treatment options. They can't make you go to the hospital if your just having thoughts about it.
Posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 14:30:28
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by blueberry on May 29, 2006, at 13:29:45
OK, I'd just like to reiterate that I will not ever do it!!! EVER!
I just want to know how most people react. I've had a few doctors ask before, and I said, no because I wasn't suicidal. Actually, the idea of the question horried me because I just couldn't really imagine truely hurting oneself.
The doctors at the practice at home have never asked me. They aren't too thorough! Once I asked my PA there a question about whether he believed antidepressants helped people. His reply was that he's had people who were about to shoot themselves in the head have been saved.
He said it very casually too, so apparently he's heard the thought many times before. My response was "whoaaaa, ok I'm nowhere near that point (I wasn't), but that's good to know."
Posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 15:28:32
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by nickguy on May 29, 2006, at 14:26:59
My purpose of thinking of bringing up the topic was to get some actual treatment! I haven't had much luck with my last few doctors. They just blew me off. However this doctor knows me. He also knows that I am honest, intelligent, and level-headed. If I actually explain everything, he'd believe me. He'd believe that I do have the thoughts, yet will not carry them out. I may want to express my current frustration and lack of trust with doctors from recents appointments, but feel bad telling him that I sought out 3 "second opinions" in the past month! I actually did just see him a month ago, but for a Lunesta checkup, didn't mention the anxiety and depression because I was banking on some good treatment from the pdoc appointment I had two days later!
Posted by fairywings on May 29, 2006, at 18:33:17
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 15:28:32
> but feel bad telling him that I sought out 3 "second opinions" in the past month!
It's good you have a pdoc who believes in you, and it sounds like you have some trust in him. You don't have to tell him you sought any 2nd opinions....or give him any other details about your question, it's a reasonable question.
fw
Posted by cecilia on May 29, 2006, at 20:56:23
In reply to How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
Frankly I think everyone has suicidal thoughts at times, probably your doctor does, if everyone with suicidal thoughts had to be hospitalized there'd be a lot more people in the hospital than out. Cecilia
Posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 21:15:17
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations? » jealibeanz, posted by fairywings on May 29, 2006, at 18:33:17
No, the man I'm going back to is a GP. I sought out a pdoc and 2 other GP's in the past month before going "back home".
Posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 21:16:30
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by cecilia on May 29, 2006, at 20:56:23
That's what I figured too.
Posted by maxime on May 29, 2006, at 23:15:00
In reply to How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
Thinking about it and doing it are 2 different things. The only way he will put you in the hospital is if you have a history of attempts, or if you have "plans".
However if the feelings are too strong for you to handle, you can always go into the hospital vountarily.
This has been my experience.
Maxie
> If you tell your doc that you do think about it, are they obligated to hospitalize you or require counseling? I could admit to my doctor that I've thought about it every day for the past month, but definitely will not attempt.
>
> My reasoning is that I do not have to quick, easy, surefire method of doing so. I realize that the failure rate is pretty high, even if I did have a chosen and trusted method.
>
> If I were to fail, my life would be worse. I'd be hospitalized, have to drop out of school, and be labeled as "suicidal" by family, friends, and doctors. I'm smart enough to avoid all that as to not worsen my depression and life situation!
>
> If I told my doctor that, how do you think he would respond? Urgently? Or is it pretty common for depressed people to at least have the idea floating through their minds at times?
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on May 30, 2006, at 8:53:19
In reply to How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
Hiya!
>> My reasoning is that I do not have to quick, easy, surefire method of doing so. I realize that the failure rate is pretty high, even if I did have a chosen and trusted method.
Your reasoning sounds pretty much like mine - I don't have a quick sure fire way of doing it. And thankfully guns are very very hard to obtain here in the UK. And the failure rate is pretty high and well, I think it takes an awful lot of courage to actucally do it. I've thought about this alot too. I mean, I used to go rock climbing and I had a hard enough time letting myself be absailed down from the top of a climb (at first!) let alone jump off a bridge/cliff/balcony or something.
> If you tell your doc that you do think about it, are they obligated to hospitalize you or require counseling? I could admit to my doctor that I've thought about it every day for the past month, but definitely will not attempt.
No! I've admitted these feelings to my pdoc and a CPN on past occassion and they respond much the same as discussing any other aspect of depression. They obviously have some mark or something that would indicate to them whether someone has crossed the line. Just tell them the truth!
> If I were to fail, my life would be worse. I'd be hospitalized, have to drop out of school, and be labeled as "suicidal" by family, friends, and doctors. I'm smart enough to avoid all that as to not worsen my depression and life situation!
Not really. Two of my friends have overdosed on their medications in an attempt at some point in their lives - I don't view them as any less of a person and neither do other friends or their families. They weren't in hospital very long - two or three days max - and that was it!
> Or is it pretty common for depressed people to at least have the idea floating through their minds at times?
I think its very very common for depressed people. And because its quite taboo still, many people aren't aware how common it really is.
I know its a shock to you when you first start thinking about it, and you think its going to be shocking to other people. But your pdoc will have heard loads of other people like you and it won't be unusual to him/her. I have to assure you that its pretty common amongst depressed people. I even joke about it with my friend about how we try and stay away from the edge of the platform at a train station, because we don't trust ourselves.....
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by joslynn on May 30, 2006, at 12:20:47
In reply to How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 12:28:00
A couple things to answer your question, just based on my experiences:
I have spoken about passive thoughts of wanting to kill myself (don't have those thoughts now, thank you God) with pdoc and he did not put me in the hospital. (I don't think he has that power anyway?) He just suggested a med adjustment if it didn't go away in a few days, as I recall. He did ask very specific questions about if I had a plan and if anything was holding me back from trying, and some other things. For me, the thoughts were just thoughts, so he didn't talk about the hospital for that.
About the hospital....Before I was in treament for depression and was just trying to deal with it on my own, I actually did walk to the ER with persistent, constant suicidal thoughts that were going on for weeks, which I resisted acting upon, and they did recommend that I go into the hospital for a few days. (I also had not been eating and sleeping for a couple weeks as well.)
However, they said they couldn't make me, it was my choice. I chose the hospital and now I am very glad I did. (I got lucky and it was a really good place with good pdocs and counselors.) Once in the hospital, I supposedly could have left when I wanted to, by signing a form saying I was leaving against doctor's orders.
My point is, nowadays, at least in my area, no one is making people go into the hospital just for the thoughts.
Now for you, the hospital may or may not be a good choice. I am just saying that even when I DID admit my suicidal thoughts, they still couldn't force me to go to the hospital.
And once in the hospital, your insurance company is constantly checking up to see whether or not you are still suicidal, because if you are not actively contemplating it every moment, they want you in some less expensive step-down treatment. So, for a lot of people, the problem is not being in the hospital for too long, but not being in long enough.
I hope you find some peace real soon.
Posted by joslynn on May 30, 2006, at 12:24:10
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on May 29, 2006, at 15:28:32
oh...just read this after I wrote my other post.
Well, either way, I think you should be honest.
As for hospitalization...they won't put you in just for the thoughts...there is not enough room in all the hospitals for that!
I tell everyone I know, if you're dealing with mental health stuff, get a pdoc if you can, not just a GP. Sounds like you are trying just not having good luck.
Posted by jealibeanz on June 2, 2006, at 16:57:14
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by joslynn on May 30, 2006, at 12:24:10
I've found it extremely difficult to locate a pdoc who's taking new patients within the next year! Even then, it doesn't mean they're much good.
Posted by fairywings on June 2, 2006, at 18:55:11
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on June 2, 2006, at 16:57:14
A year!? That s*cks! Is there a university nearby where there might be a clinic?
Here the wait is 6 weeks to 3 months to see a good one. They're so in demand - wonder if there's a shortage of pdocs.
fw
Posted by jealibeanz on June 2, 2006, at 19:19:43
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations? » jealibeanz, posted by fairywings on June 2, 2006, at 18:55:11
well don't you think even that is excessive?
Posted by fairywings on June 2, 2006, at 20:24:54
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations?, posted by jealibeanz on June 2, 2006, at 19:19:43
If it's an emergency I agree it's too long to wait. Initially I had to wait about 6 weeks to see mine, but he was well worth the wait. I wouldn't want to see anyone else ever. I hope he never retires.
How come it takes so long where you are? Aren't there very many of them? And then what would it be like to schedule regular appts - could you see them on monthly basis if you needed to? And what happens in an emergency...can they see you, or do you get shuffled on to an emergency room? That would bother me.
fw
Posted by jealibeanz on June 2, 2006, at 21:22:49
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations? » jealibeanz, posted by fairywings on June 2, 2006, at 20:24:54
i don't know. that's why i deal with my GP. i can walk in any day and see him.
Posted by thuso on June 2, 2006, at 22:50:15
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations? » jealibeanz, posted by fairywings on June 2, 2006, at 18:55:11
> They're so in demand - wonder if there's a shortage of pdocs.
>There definitely is a shortage. And if you think regular pdocs are hard to see...child pdocs are almost impossible to get an appt. with. I used to work for a child pdoc and he hasn't taken a new patient for years (other than current patient family members). He will only do 2nd opinions and even then its a 3-6 month wait to get an appt. It's crazy!
But it's really nice to know that I have an "in" if any of my future kids need help. ;-)
Posted by fairywings on June 2, 2006, at 23:38:08
In reply to Re: How do doc's react to suicidal ideations? » fairywings, posted by thuso on June 2, 2006, at 22:50:15
Hi Thuso,
The pdoc we see is a child/adolescent pdoc - we all love him. He's always booked solid, so I feel really lucky we have him, and that he took all of us.
fw
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