![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by heaven help me on May 25, 2006, at 22:02:37
In reply to Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious..., posted by heaven help me on May 25, 2006, at 21:57:26
nm
Posted by Caedmon on May 25, 2006, at 22:57:00
In reply to Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious..., posted by heaven help me on May 25, 2006, at 21:57:26
How many hours of sleep are you averaging? How tired to you feel on that much sleep?
- Chris
Posted by gardenergirl on May 26, 2006, at 0:20:36
In reply to Re: Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious, posted by Caedmon on May 25, 2006, at 22:57:00
You might try splitting your Lamictal into two doses: 100 in the a.m. and 100 in the p.m. if your doctor agrees. That's how it's prescribed for me. It may be too stimulating to take all at once.
gg
Posted by heaven help me on May 26, 2006, at 8:06:30
In reply to Re: Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious, posted by Caedmon on May 25, 2006, at 22:57:00
I get about 8-9 hours of sleep, however, that is induced by Restoril. Although I think I would sleep without it, just not as deeply.
The "mania" in the days is very steady, if that makes sense. Things are clear and steady. As the evening comes I start that sort of jittery feeling (that has come along with the Geodon?)It also feels like things speed up. The valium makes it calmer. In the am, like now. I feel rested and things are at a *normal* pace.
Thanks for any insights!
blessings
mary
Posted by heaven help me on May 26, 2006, at 8:07:37
In reply to Re: Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious, posted by gardenergirl on May 26, 2006, at 0:20:36
I will call my Dr. today and ask him about this, however, does the Lamictal make you feel sleepy in the day?
blessings
mary
Posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 8:38:24
In reply to Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious..., posted by heaven help me on May 25, 2006, at 21:57:26
The question regarding sleep is a good one. Unfortunately, taking the Restoril makes evaluating your need for sleep difficult.
I can't say for sure that you are manic. What you describe does sound like it would be hypomania for most people. However, it is possible that you have a hyperthymic temperament naturally. What were you like before you became ill?
Lamictal can be stimulating for some people, and is known on occasion to produce mania. However, I would look at Geodon to be the offender, should there be one.
I prefer to split my dosing of Lamictal to twice a day. I find that once a day dosing produces an uneven mood throughout the day.
- Scott
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 8:49:43
In reply to Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious..., posted by heaven help me on May 25, 2006, at 21:57:26
Without having a loss of the need to sleep, no. I think this one factor, sleep, is definitive. You're sleeping eight hours. I don't care if that's from Restoril, if you wake rested.
What you need to watch for is the sense that the sleep medication is failing you. That even with it, you don't obtain restorative sleep. If that starts to happen, then I would say that you indeed could be entering the hypomanic/manic realm.
I've experienced manic induction, and I'm trying to use my experience as a guide. I think that your cautious observations are important. Keep that up.
If your medications list is complete, I don't see anything there that might induce mania. But anything can happen. If you are BP2, then hypomania is part of your normal mood cycling, but it might be more pleasant this time because of the drugs. Unless and until the stimulation you feel becomes a burden, I'd just enjoy the ride.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 9:01:38
In reply to Re: Does this sound like mania to you? » heaven help me, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 8:49:43
> If your medications list is complete, I don't see anything there that might induce mania. But anything can happen. If you are BP2, then hypomania is part of your normal mood cycling, but it might be more pleasant this time because of the drugs. Unless and until the stimulation you feel becomes a burden, I'd just enjoy the ride.
>
> LarI wish I'd seen Scott's post before I wrote my concluding paragraph. I went from the PDR, with respect to psychological inductions from these meds. I bet you crazymeds has more definitive reporting.
Because of the timing of your experience, it certainly appears like Geodon is underlying your current state. Whether it's good or bad can only be seen by looking back on where it takes you.
Perhaps apprehension should be a guiding principle, too. If Geodon takes you towards a scary reality, then cutting back on it as soon as you can recognize this, would be a good thing.
Lar
Posted by heaven help me on May 26, 2006, at 10:29:40
In reply to Re: Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious, posted by SLS on May 26, 2006, at 8:38:24
before the illness. 9 pregnancies, 5 live births, homescooling for 15 years, moving 5 times (twice overseas) wore me out! Colon cancer (surgical cure, no meds) and 1 year of major insomnia put me over the top and suddenly I was dipping REALLY low as opposed to a managable low. I will ask the Dr. about spiltting the Lamictal. I take it at night, so you think it would stimulate me that much in the day? Do you know if Geodon has the tendancy to stimulate?
Thanks so much
blessings
Mary
Posted by heaven help me on May 26, 2006, at 10:32:04
In reply to Re: Does this sound like mania to you? p.s. » Larry Hoover, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 9:01:38
I should call my Dr. and ask about trying to cut back on the Geodon? I take 120 right now.
THANK YOU!!!!!
blessings
mary
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2006, at 10:54:19
In reply to Larry, do you think..., posted by heaven help me on May 26, 2006, at 10:32:04
> I should call my Dr. and ask about trying to cut back on the Geodon? I take 120 right now.
> THANK YOU!!!!!
> blessings
> maryI can't answer that, from here. There is a point of self-care where you form a more interactive link with your prescriber. Your feedback ought to be very important as you titrate to the best dose of any drug(s) you use. If you think you ought to cut back, then cut back *and* discuss that with your prescriber.
Don't let time pass, if you think you are getting off track.
Lar
Posted by Caedmon on May 26, 2006, at 13:39:10
In reply to sleep, posted by heaven help me on May 26, 2006, at 8:06:30
I agree with Scott, it's difficult to say although my personal experience with hypomania is that none of the traditional sleep meds worked. It had to be either Seroquel, or some other antimanic + sleep med. Maybe that's just me. So far I would probably guess that it's not hypomania. But I commend you for getting information and talking to your doctor. Be well,
- Chris
Posted by CEK on May 26, 2006, at 18:05:35
In reply to Re: sleep » heaven help me, posted by Caedmon on May 26, 2006, at 13:39:10
I take my Lamictal in the morning. My doctor told me to. It does not make me sleepy. I have BP2 with major depression. When I would have my hypomania spells, I loved them. I didn't know that was what they were. I thought too, that maybe I was finally feeling like "normal" people feel like. I miss that feeling. I wish there was a med that would take away the depression and let you live with mild mania all the time, but just never changing over to real manic like mania. Without feeling the hypomania anymore, I just feel like crap all the time. The things that you do in one day amazes me! I do good to get up in the morning and try to get a shower and do a load of laundry, and this doesn't happen much anymore. I use to be all over the place and wouldn't sit down until everything I saw that needed to be done, was done. This was me before I got so ill. I would keep to just antidepressants and keep the hypomania, but they weren't working anymore and the other moodstablizers put me in a deeper depression. The doctor thought Lamictal would be best, but I'm only 2.5 weeks into it. I'll have to see.
Posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2006, at 21:25:03
In reply to Re: sleep, posted by CEK on May 26, 2006, at 18:05:35
Doesn't sound like mania to me. I get up and do wash , make bed, clean floors, go outside, the store, a doc' appointment, the grocery story, maybe buy some plants. Then when I get home I jog slowly l.5miles not a lot. Then I get on my bike and ride for around 5miles. It the excercise part takes around an hour. And then I'm bored. Oh I am sleeping well at night on valium. Love Phillipa
Posted by tessellated on May 26, 2006, at 21:35:54
In reply to Re: sleep, posted by CEK on May 26, 2006, at 18:05:35
Briefly: being in a hypo manic low sleep state myself and deep in the spring cleaning as well, I ponder what the dangers of hypomania are and correct me if i'm wrong:
a: a kindling effect that seems to increase the more one cycles? meaning the waves get larger and therefore worse the more cycles one experiences?
b: any direct overt and adverse affects to ones life such as overspending, promiscuity, etc-i.e. Mania.Here in Los Angeles, it's environmentally gorgeous, which seems to put many people into a bit of a hypomania! Life is bursting out every which way.
Best to be conservative suppose, though I would like to undestand what the current consensus is medically.
Cheers,
tessel8ted
Posted by heaven help me on May 26, 2006, at 23:52:31
In reply to the dangers of hypomania?, posted by tessellated on May 26, 2006, at 21:35:54
ok, It's nearly 1am and I am still awake (though I am VERY tired and should be in bed) But I still have some mental energy, just physically spent.
It was another FULL day during most of which I really felt great and was handling things with great proficiency and calm. About 4 pm I started to feel a bit jittery, I took some Magnesium phosphate and that held me over until about 7:30 pm when I felt really jittery, my mind was sort of shaking, I still felt very emotionally up, I was having company, I was only worried about maybe freaking out all of a sudden so I took a valium. It was all I needed to stay in the happy state but not cross over into the sped up state.
It is almost as though as the day wears on things very gradually speed up for me and I start to worry things like "if this keeps speeding up I am going to be in trouble" (and I think I mean that I am going to start convulsing or something with a feeling of being so overcaffeinated that I burst (having only had ONE cup of coffee at 8am and NO other caffeine in the day). That has never happened but I start to feel like I might get there. Over stimulated, over stressed or something but all the while feeling emotionally GREAT.
Sooooo, is a valium in the eve just the answer as it got me through quite nicely today?
Or, am I on a high speed train headed for a crash and right now I just like the wind in my face but I BETTER BRACE myself?
or, am I fine?
or, do I need to adjust the Lamictal and/or the Geodon (forgot to call the Dr today on that-was too busy:) )
I go to Spain with my husband for a week mid June and I DO NOT want to mess anything up before or during then or I can't go!!!! So do I just ride on until I get back or I am I really in danger of explosion, implosion , meltdown or otherwise?????
I think when I get back I can adjust the doses a bit and see what happens.
I'm sorry this is so long, thank you all for listening and thank you for your responses. You're a great group
blessings
Mary
Posted by linkadge on May 27, 2006, at 0:27:49
In reply to today, still afraid of this mania...please read., posted by heaven help me on May 26, 2006, at 23:52:31
I don't know how much I believe in the so called "kindling effect". Sometimes I think the disease is constructed in such a way that makes people more likely to take their treatment for the longest amount of time as possible.
Consider depression, for instance. Some studies seem to suggest that treatment actually improves the course of the illness in the future, where other studies suggest that treatment with antidepressants actually worsens the course of illness, and makes recovery and remission less likely. I don't think that epilepsy gets any worse as one gets older.
The problem with mood stabilizers is that (in my opinion) they can suck joy right out of you. Without pleasure, and joy, it is very hard to find direction and motivation in life.
Unlike full blown mania, hypomania isn't always distructive. Hypomania isn't always associated with the severe indiscression of mania, and as such it doesn't always set itself up for depressive relapse.
I think that as long as your hypomania doesn't progress into full blown mania (which needn't necessarily happen) then live it out and enjoy it. Goodness knows theres too much dysthemia going around.
I know plenty of people who appear to have been living in a state of constant mild hypomania for a lifetime.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2006, at 8:51:50
In reply to Re: today, still afraid of this mania...please read., posted by linkadge on May 27, 2006, at 0:27:49
> I think that as long as your hypomania doesn't progress into full blown mania
The problem with letting a hypomania progress is that it is often followed by a crash into depression. If you prevent the mania, you thereby prevent the depression.
> I know plenty of people who appear to have been living in a state of constant mild hypomania for a lifetime.
Apparently, this was the case with Alexander Hamilton. He was a brilliant man. Unfortunately, a lapse of judgment allowed him to agree to a pistol duel with Aaron Burr, which he lost and died from.
It is true that sometimes, people in a state of hypomania are best left untreated.
- Scott
Posted by heaven help me on May 27, 2006, at 14:58:34
In reply to Re: today, still afraid of this mania...please rea, posted by SLS on May 27, 2006, at 8:51:50
It seems the consensus is that I am probably a bit on the hypomanic side of things which isn't necessarily bad, I just watch for signs of going way higher, or deeply lower in which case I get with my Dr. ASAP to adjust the meds.
I can stay as is for now, even go to Spain with my husband in a month (for 1 week) and not expect things to drastically change in that time (?)
When I get back, I talk with Dr. about maybe changing Geodon dosage.
Everything sound good to everyone?
PS:Do you think Alexander Hamilton's hypomania was responsible for his lack of judgement and thereby death, or not?
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2006, at 15:36:40
In reply to the consensus..(ok, this one is a lot shorter...), posted by heaven help me on May 27, 2006, at 14:58:34
I think you'll know more in a week or two whether or not any changes in treatment are necessary before you leave for Spain. In the meantime, sit back and enjoy life as it comes.
> PS:Do you think Alexander Hamilton's hypomania was responsible for his lack of judgement and thereby death, or not?The duel took place during a time when duelling had gone out of fashion. Personally, I think hypomania could have contributed to his decision making process. I remember being influenced in such ways when I was hypomanic.
- Scott
Posted by Nina78 on May 27, 2006, at 16:57:37
In reply to Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious..., posted by heaven help me on May 25, 2006, at 21:57:26
Hello Mary,
I'm still a bit new on this, so sorry if this is a really stupid question. I was just wondering, how do you get bipolar diagnosis if you've never been (hypo)manic before?
If it helps at all, your description does sounds hypomanic to me. I'd say, just enjoy it while it lasts :-) Other people take drugs to get on a high like that!
Good luck!
Nina> Hi. Ok, I think I may be experiencing mania. I don't think I really have before, it was more like I was a line that dipped down now and then, but never up, up, UP. I was diagnosed BP 2 and am on nightly:
Posted by heaven help me on May 27, 2006, at 23:06:55
In reply to Re: Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious..., posted by Nina78 on May 27, 2006, at 16:57:37
Hi Nina,
I was diagnosed BP2 because I went 1 yr. without sleep beyond dream state. Dr. said it was depression and put me on AD meds. We tried many but none worked, they only made my skin crawl, or me feel like I just drank a 6 pack of double shot espressos. Dr. started asking lots of questions and we concluded that I did have sort of a cyclic state of depression that would come and go. It was more like I was a horizontal line that would periodically dip down low and come back up, but it never spiked above the horizontal (mania). So, we tried some BP meds and I was a new person. Way less depression and an added bonus - I didn't have to WORK in my mind to be *normal*. I had NO IDEA that I was doing this work until I didn't have to do it. Now, after having been on BP meds for a few years I can say I am happier and more stable and life is much simpler and enjoyable for me. I am so grateful... I don't care what label they want to give it. It seems clear to me that I had a chemical imbalance that was depressing all aspects of life for me, and now it is more in balance. I thank God for the meds.
blessings
mary
Posted by heaven help me on May 27, 2006, at 23:10:23
In reply to Re: Does this sound like maia to you? I'm serious..., posted by heaven help me on May 27, 2006, at 23:06:55
Ok, ok. Lets say I AM hypomanic from the current med regime. Do I have to be AFRAID of anything? And if so. WHAT?????, exactly????
I gotta go to bed, see ya tomorrow
mary
Posted by heaven help me on May 28, 2006, at 17:07:36
In reply to It's late and I'm afraid.Whats BAD about hypomania, posted by heaven help me on May 27, 2006, at 23:10:23
is a crash inevitable? Should I be afraid?
mary
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2006, at 17:40:26
In reply to c'mon ya'll - can I stay hypomanic forever or...., posted by heaven help me on May 28, 2006, at 17:07:36
> is a crash inevitable? Should I be afraid?
> maryI don't think anyone can possible answer your question with the degree of certainty you seem to be asking for, which I then assume is why you aren't getting any answers to your question.
If you are reasonably aware, you should be reasonably okay. It is denial that gets most people into trouble, not awareness.
There is only one way to know, and that's hindsight. Let us instead believe that reasonable care will keep you reasonably safe.
Best,
Lar
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.