![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 43. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by foreigner on April 29, 2006, at 14:54:16
I have been using it for a week(not so long) but It helped my depression. Can this continue(or be much effective) and can I get better with this drug?I haven't experianced this kind of improvement with other drugs.
What do you think about tianeptine? Has anyone experienced it? What doses should I take it?
I should say that I don't believe psyciatrists because of some unsuccessful therapy experiments. My life has gotten worse time to time. I lost a lot of things because of this sucking depression. I am very near to get sack from the college(I was very successful student before depression).I can't do anything and I have no motivation. Maybe this drug is my last chance. Has anyone experienced it? Can I manage to get rid of this sucking disease?
Thanks.
Posted by blueberry on April 29, 2006, at 15:13:21
In reply to Do you know tianeptne?, posted by foreigner on April 29, 2006, at 14:54:16
I only know about tianeptine because I looked at every abstract at pubmed.com about it. Never tried it.
Even though it is called a serotonin reuptake enhancer, it actually does a lot more than that. It changes responsiveness of dopamine and norepinephrine receptors somehow. And as with all drugs, there is probably a lot that is totally unknown.
My own personal theory is that while other antidepressants dam up the neurotransmitters that are there, which is good for some people and bad for others, tianeptine increases the flow and firing or neurotransmitters. Again it is just an opinion, but I think there are two major types of depression...those that respond to damming up what's there and slowing down the flow, and those that respond to stimulating the flow.
I'm glad you've had an early response to tianeptine. That is a good sign.
Posted by foreigner on April 29, 2006, at 15:58:51
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by blueberry on April 29, 2006, at 15:13:21
Blueberry I agree with your theory. Drugs that stumulate the flow(especially serotonin) hasn't worked for me.
In fact this is one of the reason why I tried tianeptine and it made me hopeful with its early effects. But I don't know the future. I have some headache for now as an adverse effect.
Posted by Racer on April 30, 2006, at 10:22:55
In reply to Do you know tianeptne?, posted by foreigner on April 29, 2006, at 14:54:16
I'm another who's read about it but not tried it. (Of course, that has a tiny bit to do with it not being available in the US... ;-0 ) I can't tell you anything about dosage, etc, but I can offer some general thoughts on antidepressants:
The first thought is pretty simple: most ADs require that you stay on them for a minimum of six weeks to see how they will work. In some cases, that's because they need that long to start doing anything; in other cases, though, it's because after six weeks most of the start up effects have passed. That headache is maybe just the start up effect for you, and will go away after a couple of weeks.
Are you getting tianepine from a doctor? Truly, a doctor is the one who should be telling you the dosage that's best for you. We here can tell you what various doses of various drugs have done for us, but only your own doctor can tell you what's best for you, because only your doctor has a more complete picture of your mental and physical health.
And it's very unlikely that tianepine is anything ike your last hope -- there are so many antidepressants out there that you've probably got a wide range of things to try if this isn't right. It does feel as though it's the last chance, I'm sure, but remember that's the depression talking to you. If you can counter those thoughts with some more realistic thoughts -- like, "it would be frustrating if this doesn't help me, but there are other drugs that I can try and I *will* get through this" -- that may help you get past those first weeks that you have to go through.
I hope that helps, and I hope tianepine works for you. (And I very much hope to have it approved over here, so that I can try it.)
Posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2006, at 13:17:50
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by Racer on April 30, 2006, at 10:22:55
Boy you're lucky to have a pdoc that knows about your physical health as mine and my others always send to to an internist or GP. They always say psych is my specialty I know nothing about thyroid or physical things. Call your other doc. It can't be just the Charlotte area as in VA Beach it was the the same always referrals and they don't even want copies of the findings. Sad but true. You really are lucky. Love Phillipa
Posted by foreigner on April 30, 2006, at 13:48:55
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by Racer on April 30, 2006, at 10:22:55
I have gone to doctors(not one). I used their prescriptions. But none of them can cured completely. I am like at the bus stop and my bus will never come. I want to say that they only made much sleepy an disconnected from life. My problems are still there and I am not like myself. I am only waiting waiting. I started not to trust doctors. I think they are doing what I do. They are only testing if this one will work or not. I can do it with myself in a shorter time.
But If you are lucky you can find the right dr- drug combination. I thing every single person need a differant therapy and doctors can't understand this.
I hope this one works. Thanks...
Posted by foreigner on April 30, 2006, at 14:22:24
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by foreigner on April 30, 2006, at 13:48:55
I have found these about it...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16608107&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16303223&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15582922&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16047671&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16193649&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16504218&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16528638&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum
Posted by Racer on April 30, 2006, at 17:49:24
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne? » Racer, posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2006, at 13:17:50
> Boy you're lucky to have a pdoc that knows about your physical health as mine and my others always send to to an internist or GP. They always say psych is my specialty I know nothing about thyroid or physical things. ... and they don't even want copies of the findings.
I'm not going to give a full explanation of my meaning, because I just don't have the energy for that.
Here's a very quick version:
Even if we really do know all about a medication -- we don't know ALL ABOUT the person asking the question.
Does my psychiatrist delve into my full physical history? No. But she does ask relevant questions about it. And she does check my blood pressure if she's prescribing something that might affect it, or she'll tell me to go get it checked myself. That's appropriate.
Would she want copies of a CBC or other blood panel? Only if it might be relevant to the medication I am on.
My point to the poster was simple, though: ask his doctor about appropriate dosage FOR HIM. We can say "here's the range of doses," and likely be dead on accurate. But we can't say, "THIS is the dose that you need to take." We don't know.
Posted by jakeman on May 1, 2006, at 20:56:22
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne? » Phillipa, posted by Racer on April 30, 2006, at 17:49:24
I mentioned this medication to my doctor and he had not heard of it. At that time he refused to get me off the SSRI merry-go-round. I ordered some and tried it for about 10 days. The smallest dose worked well, but I could not sleep at all.
warm regards, Jake
Posted by linkadge on May 1, 2006, at 21:22:40
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by jakeman on May 1, 2006, at 20:56:22
I feel the same way. I just don't trust my doctor. He's so ignorant. To him SSRI's are the answer to everything. If one doesn't work then the next one must work. And when you've reached the end of the line, why not start over with the first one that failed.
Its too bad that tianeptine isn't a more available option for many. Some doctors don't believe it could work because they're too stubborn to consider to think outside the low serotonin theory.
Tianeptine is an effective antidepressant, and for many has a superior side effect profile.
If I could get the money, I'd like to give it a trial.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 1, 2006, at 21:23:30
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by jakeman on May 1, 2006, at 20:56:22
How did your doctor respond to your tianeptine trial ?
Linkadge
Posted by jakeman on May 1, 2006, at 21:29:04
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by linkadge on May 1, 2006, at 21:23:30
> How did your doctor respond to your tianeptine trial ?
I didn't tell him because I was afraid of making him mad for going outside his direction.
warm regards, Jake
Posted by Racer on May 2, 2006, at 1:53:51
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by linkadge on May 1, 2006, at 21:22:40
>
> Its too bad that tianeptine isn't a more available option for many. Some doctors don't believe it could work because they're too stubborn to consider to think outside the low serotonin theory.
>Sibutramine must throw a wrench in their gears, then, don't you think?
Posted by naughtypuppy on May 2, 2006, at 9:43:22
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by linkadge on May 1, 2006, at 21:22:40
> I feel the same way. I just don't trust my doctor. He's so ignorant. To him SSRI's are the answer to everything. If one doesn't work then the next one must work. And when you've reached the end of the line, why not start over with the first one that failed.
>
> Its too bad that tianeptine isn't a more available option for many. Some doctors don't believe it could work because they're too stubborn to consider to think outside the low serotonin theory.
>
It's called OSD (Obsessive Serotonin Disorder) a debilitating condition suffered by pdocs who suffer an abnormal dependancy on pharmacy reps.> Tianeptine is an effective antidepressant, and for many has a superior side effect profile.
>
> If I could get the money, I'd like to give it a trial.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Posted by Racer on May 2, 2006, at 10:14:08
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne? » linkadge, posted by naughtypuppy on May 2, 2006, at 9:43:22
> >
> It's called OSD (Obsessive Serotonin Disorder) a debilitating condition suffered by pdocs who suffer an abnormal dependancy on pharmacy reps.
>I call it Schliemann Syndrome, because it makes me think of Schliemann trampling Illium to rubble while looking for Troy...
Posted by linkadge on May 2, 2006, at 15:47:01
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne? lol » linkadge, posted by Racer on May 2, 2006, at 1:53:51
>Sibutramine must throw a wrench in their gears, >then, don't you think?
oo, I'm not familiar with the mechanism of action of this drug.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 2, 2006, at 15:48:02
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne? » linkadge, posted by naughtypuppy on May 2, 2006, at 9:43:22
>It's called OSD (Obsessive Serotonin Disorder) >a debilitating condition suffered by pdocs who >suffer an abnormal dependancy on pharmacy reps.
Yeah, Bingo.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 2, 2006, at 15:53:12
In reply to Is that what you think it is? » naughtypuppy, posted by Racer on May 2, 2006, at 10:14:08
I've heard it suggested that the antidepressant effects of tianeptine are downplayed due to how the drug might affect people's preception of psychiatry's validity.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on May 2, 2006, at 16:09:45
In reply to Re: Is that what you think it is?, posted by linkadge on May 2, 2006, at 15:53:12
Hi Link
>I've heard it suggested that the antidepressant effects of tianeptine are downplayed due to how the drug might affect people's preception of psychiatry's validity.
IMO, psychiatry would prefer it if tianepine didn't exist. I guess most docs haven't heard of it anyway.
Ed
Posted by linkadge on May 2, 2006, at 18:34:35
In reply to Re: Is that what you think it is? » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on May 2, 2006, at 16:09:45
I know the antidepressant effects of negitive ions are under increasing investigation, esp for SAD. Some researchers claim that negative ions actually lower brain serotonin in some way, some propose though an increase in monoamine oxidase activity.
You can google, serotonin + "negative ions"
Linkadge
Posted by vale on May 4, 2006, at 14:14:23
In reply to Do you know tianeptne?, posted by foreigner on April 29, 2006, at 14:54:16
> I have been using it for a week(not so long) but It helped my depression. Can this continue(or be much effective) and can I get better with this drug?I haven't experianced this kind of improvement with other drugs.
> What do you think about tianeptine? Has anyone experienced it? What doses should I take it?
> I should say that I don't believe psyciatrists because of some unsuccessful therapy experiments. My life has gotten worse time to time. I lost a lot of things because of this sucking depression. I am very near to get sack from the college(I was very successful student before depression).I can't do anything and I have no motivation. Maybe this drug is my last chance. Has anyone experienced it? Can I manage to get rid of this sucking disease?
> Thanks.I've used Tianeptine before, used it for around 6 months. It's another one of those French drugs that "work" without anyone knowing exactly it's precise mode of action. I think I gave it a fair trial and could note the following.
Advantages: Mildly serenic, Mildly mood stabilizing/ food tasted better/Increased libido/ Lessening of typical major depressive symptoms/Easy to stop using( taper down over 3-4 days only.
Disadvantages: Freaky nightmares/ Headache/ occasional distressing vivid thoughts/ Apathy setting in over time. Side effects lessen in intensity after a few weeks of continued use.
Dosages 2or 3 tabs of 12.5mg per day.
Can be combined with Modiodal ( Provigil), to combat the apathy side effect.This drug also takes the edge of mild benzodiazepine withdrawal and is used also for treating alcoholics.
All in all not a bad med. Take heart, hang in there, your depression will clear over time.
Posted by foreigner on May 6, 2006, at 12:22:56
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptne?, posted by vale on May 4, 2006, at 14:14:23
Thanks all.
I agree with you Vale.I experienced most of your experiences too. As you said I have 'occasional vivid thoughts' and 'incresed libido'. But most of the time It is a mood stabilizer. It doesn't allow you to have edge emotions.
I haven't nightmares but I have stupid dreams.
Have you managed to clear your depression. Do we have a chance:)Because I started to believe It is my genetic to have depression.
Good luck
Posted by psychobot5000 on May 6, 2006, at 13:50:58
In reply to Do you know tianeptne?, posted by foreigner on April 29, 2006, at 14:54:16
Hi,
Here's what I know about tianeptine.
I recommend Tianeptine above other drugs. In my experience, it has the same positive effects on mood and anxiety as a good antidepressant, without the negatives. I experienced everything from insomnia to sleepiness to upset stomach to dry mouth to racing heart with other antidepressants, and they made life difficult to live.
Tianeptine seems to cause no side-effects at all at the normal dosage. At high doses it gave me mild dry mouth, but nothing else.
Things to know:
Normal dose, 12.5mg, 3 times a day, for a total of 37.5mg daily. 3x a day dosing is probably necessary, because this drug passes through your body quite quickly. One study I saw suggested that 75mg per day was more effective, but in my case the high dosage was no better, with the addition of mild drymouth as a side-effect.Tianeptine has fewer interactions with other drugs, because the liver processes it differently. It does not undergo 'first pass metabolism.' This may mean it's easier on the liver than other drugs, and can be better combined with them. HOWEVER, since there is less information about Tianeptine available than we'd like, drug combinations are risky.
Tianeptine's mechanism of action is unknown, but it does directly increase serotonin reuptake--thus reducin serotonin supply. It is worth noting, that Tianeptine will be an effective antidepressant in patients who also are aided by serotinin reuptake inhibitors (when taken separately, not together. They would probably cancel each other out), like prozac, zoloft and etc. These drugs work in the opposite manner.
Who knows why. But once again, tianeptine has far fewer side effects, or none at all.
For whatever reason, it has not been studied as well as the mainstream drugs, and so it's something of a wildcard. However, some researchers suggest that its effects are less powerful than other drugs. In my experience this was not true.
Also, the limited data available suggests that Tianeptine elevates mood in between 75 and 80 % of depressed patients who take it. These are very good numbers, when compared to other drugs. It's reputation for having very slight, or nonexistent side-effects would seem to make it an excellent candidate to be marketet widely. It's anyone's guess why it hasn't been, though it's pharmacalogical cousin amineptine (removed from international use in 1999) was found to cause liver damage (very rarely).If you are going to take a drug, I recommend it above others. It seems almost criminal to me that it's not available in many developed nations, such as parts of Europe or, I believe, the US.
Posted by psychobot5000 on May 6, 2006, at 14:06:39
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptine?, posted by psychobot5000 on May 6, 2006, at 13:50:58
Additional advantages of Tianeptine:
This drug is, in my experience, an excellent pain reliever (SSRIs do the same thing, but the mechanism of action is unknown). Many depressed patients experience an increase in 'somatic' and other types of pain, often poorly localized and of unknown cause. Some antidepressants help, and some don't. Tianeptine helps.
Also, alcohol should not be consumed while taking most antidepressants, and when I did so on SSRIs, 'atypical' antidepressants, and tricyclics, it always lowered by mood and made me apathetic the morning and day after. The one exception was Tianeptine.
In my experience, you can drink modest amounts of alcohol with Tianeptine, with no noticeable interaction between the two. I've never tried drinking more.
Psychobot
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 7, 2006, at 0:17:44
In reply to Re: Do you know tianeptine?, posted by psychobot5000 on May 6, 2006, at 14:06:39
I like tianeptine a lot. I haven't had a single side effect that I'm aware of in a year and a half of taking it.. For me, it's a moderate anti-depressant, but a very good mood-stabilizer. It also helps a lot in reducing anxiety.
It's a little scary taking it, because it's not marketed in the US, and the pdocs don't know about it. From what I've been able to learn on-line, in addition to enhancing serotonin uptake, it acts to block the cortisol stress cascade, not where it begins in the hypothalamus, but where it ends at the cellular level where cortisol harms neurons in the hippocampus (and elsewhere).
The single most impressive thing I learned about it (from a study at the German Primate Center) was that it blocks the harmful effects of separating baby tree shrews from their mothers. If the little newborns are separated from their mothers for three hours in the first day of life, they will do very poorly as adults on the Forced Swim test as adults- the standard animal model of depression. But, if they are given tianeptine before being separated, they do just as well on that test as the control babies who were never separated. This seems to be additional evidence that the harmful effects of stress are somehow prevented.
Almost every neurobiology researcher here in the states who mentions it says favorable things about tianeptine. I am assuming that it's not marketed here because, having been used for over ten years in Europe, there is no patent to be acquired, and not much money to be made by any drug company.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.