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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by minimal on April 22, 2006, at 14:01:15
Hey everyone,
I am wondering if anyone at times feels significant guilt or shame about taking (and relying on meds to some extent) to function?
I often feel really guilty about meds. I think it could be part of the major depression in general. For the last 2 days, I have been quite depressed.
I am now on:
10mg prozac
10 mg adderall
75 mg wellbutrin
(also taking 1g epa from omega 3s and a b-12 multivitamin)I tried to withdraw from prozac and ended up so depressed that I added Wellbutrin to my regimen. The depression at 5 mgs of prozac was reminiscient of my depression before I started meds if not slightly worse. Yet, I dislike higher doses of meds (for one, because of side effects, but also) for the moral dilemma. I often feel I am doing something very harmful to my body by putting all of these chemicals in it on a daily basis. I also feel often that I won't live very long (I am late 20s now) because of the meds. In general, the whole thing gives me a sense of guilt that in some way counteracts the positive aspects of these drugs.
Anyway, I am suffering through some darkness and I like to limit my med doses. Part of this darkness is the guilt and shame about taking meds.
Has anyone developed any way to cope with these feelings?
-Mini
Posted by madeline on April 22, 2006, at 14:30:09
In reply to Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by minimal on April 22, 2006, at 14:01:15
Oh Mini, my heart goes out to you so much. Please don't feel bad about taking your medicine. Please.
If you had a headache and had to take aspirin to function you wouldn't think twice about it. If you had high cholesterol, you would take a lowering medication and you wouldn't think twice about it.
So then why do we feel bad about taking other medicines that help us to live just as much as any drug on the market?
Why is that?
I think there is a pervasive undercurrent in a lot of people's minds that believe that when you have to start in these so call "psychoactive" drugs, it means that you are a failure at life. That you failed at a good diet, you failed at exercise, you failed at prayer and you can't even make yourself feel better.
Well, none of that is true, you are a strong minded, strong willed person that thinks enough of themselves to try and feel better. And most of these techniques above really aren't that successful for most people anyway and yet we still think that if only we were strong enough we wouldn't need the meds.
But the fact is, there a multiple, multiple clinical trials that demonstrate that in the right patient, these drugs work and offer relief. You can find any study to support anything, but far and away the most widely validated approach to treating depression is with those bottles you have in your hand.
There should be no guilt or shame in using a therapy that has been validated in such a way over DECADES of reasearch.
Are you in therapy as well, or is it just the meds?
I hope you feel better soon and don't give up.
Maddie
Posted by blueberry on April 22, 2006, at 19:50:20
In reply to Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by minimal on April 22, 2006, at 14:01:15
I think we all battle with the medicine guilt trip, at least periodically. When we feel decent, it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. When we feel bad is when we resist.
I asked a Pastor about this. He himself had been depressed for 10 years, could not understand why, resisted her doctor's attempts to prescribe an antidepressant, but finally he gave in. He is a new man and a fabulous Pastor who now helps others in trouble with depession. His advice to me...God put all kinds of resources on this earth for us to use, and we should use every single one of them at our disposal. That includes counseling, Jesus, prayer, diet, family, exercise, and medicine. All the pieces go together like a puzzle. One piece missing, problems.
Honestly, I am the same as you. I'm terrified of meds. I try to keep doses low. After a decade on meds, I have now been med-free for 10 weeks. You know what, they have been the absolute worst wasted 10 weeks of my life. The meds I was taking had some drawbacks. But I was a whole ton better with them than I am now.
Try 2.5mg zyprexa with that prozac. You might be surprised. And don't be afraid to increase it by 10mg. As I review my daily notes over the years, I see I was basically ok at 10mg, but I was much better at 20mg. If the wellbutrin isn't helping, and one of its common side effects is depression (go figure), drop it.
You have a life to live and people depending on you. Unless you take action on all the pieces of the puzzle, including the medicine, things will be tough. With good diet and exercise, your body can handle the meds. With the better quality of life that you have with medicines that are working, you'll probably actually live longer and healthier.
Posted by Phillipa on April 22, 2006, at 21:24:59
In reply to Re: Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :( » minimal, posted by blueberry on April 22, 2006, at 19:50:20
Blueberry are you going to take your own good advise? I 'd hate to see you not take something that worked for you and suffer instead. And I do know about the guilt. But if you talk to neighbors and people you run into you find a lot ot others on meds if you open the conversation people want to talk about their meds. Sharing is important. This med stigma needs to be gone. Love Phillipa
Posted by mgm on April 22, 2006, at 23:13:16
In reply to Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by minimal on April 22, 2006, at 14:01:15
I too felt complete shame and stigma when I went through my first and second bouts of major depression. I felt that I was forever flawed and weak...less of a person. Then I realized that there was no shame for anyone else dealing with a chronic illness as long as the term psychiatric was not attached to it. Some how society is quick to lay blame on people with psych disorders as being weak. We would never expect a diabetic to cure themselves with positive thinking and perserverence. We would call someone idiotic for not taking blood pressure medication or thyroid medication. Yet by blaming ourselves for being on pych meds we are in effect saying i only take these because I am weak. Phych meds are not happy pills.....no one would dream of taking them long term for fun. We take them because they are necessary and correct an imbalance in our bodies.
This board was a huge part of my dealing with taking phych meds when depression first hit me in a big way after the birth of my second child.
I wanted to believe that if I had no more children that this was a one time thing and could forget about it. Yet 1 year later after 6 months of no meds I was right back in the pit. I needed to come to grips with the fact that this would be a life long concern and worked with my doctor to find a med I could "live" with. I have been on my current medication for 7 years and I have had breakthroughs of anxiety and sleep problems when real stress enters the picture but they pass.No one is perfect. My depression while excrutiating at times has made me a more patient and compassionate person. I feel that I have experienced a living hell at times and this has giving me a sense of courage a fearlessness about the future.
By not taking your meds or not being at theraputic dose you could be doing more harm to your body in the long run.
We are blessed to live in a time that has so many treatment options. Too many people just a few decades ago lost so much by not having effective treatments available. Their lives could have been so different if they had what we have. Do not be shamed do not feel guilty. While we do have retched, chronic conditions it does not have to define us and does not have to limit us.
Stay strong and be well.
MGM
Posted by blueberry on April 23, 2006, at 7:28:51
Out of shame of needing medicines, I have been off for 10 weeks. A very bad scary wasted 10 weeks. I guess out of ego I wanted to see. And my doctor did too. Ego is bad. Quality of life is what matters.
For 5 years with prozac zyprexa I was basically well, scored well on a written depression screen, no sadness at all, my ongoing tinnitus was quiet enough that for 5 years I hardly ever noticed it, slept good, ate good, but I was flat, no zest, no passion, and I woke every morning with a vague unidentified feeling of dread and butterflies that would go away in a couple hours.
Without the prozac, I was more vulnerable to tinnitus increase, and depression returned. Then when the zyprexa was stopped, everything went bad. 10 weeks off, and it has been a hell of a scary ride, with depression, anxiety, fear, terror, paranoia, insomnia, anorexia, and loud tinnitus that is driving me crazy. I wake in the morning feeling insane-like. Sometimes it fades, sometimes not.
So I tell my doc I really need to get back to where I was. She says no, there are other things we can try. Zyprexa has too much diabetes risk. She says 50% of her patients develop some kind of glucose or insulin problem. But, I was never on more than 5mg. I personally do not think 2.5mg or 5mg carries a high risk especially if following a careful anti-diabetes diet. According to glucose meter tests I take each morning, and according to an endo specialist, I am fine after 5 years. (during that time I also took st johns wort for 3 months, which, unknown to me at the time, increases zyprexa blood levels by 300%, so I was actually taking 15mg for a while and didn't know it, still no damage.)
So she tried me on other stuff. No matter what I try...ssri, snri, seroquel, various amino acids...they all dramatically increase the insane-like paranoia and dramatically increase the ringing in my ears. The prozac zyprexa combo somehow blocked those things from happening.
So I am at a crossroads. Can't stay where I am.
Even if I do restart, it will be scary. I am so fragile now. I went from 142 pounds to 132 pounds, and I'm 6' tall. Not good. Even miniscule doses feel super powerful, and there is no guarantee that what worked once will work again. Almost anything I try, including prozac or zyprexa, will almost surely deepen my depression and/or anxiety before things get better. Tinnitus will also increase before it fades back to where it was. This is a scary place to be. I wish I could turn back the clock and just be where I was. It would have been much easier to build upon where I was.
My doc says I really don't fit into the depression, bipolar, or anxiety categories. She says I fall somewhere in the broad spectrum of schizo-affective disorders. She says you do not have to have hallucinations or hear voices to be schizoaffective. So that is one thing we both agree on. So why no zyprexa? She says because a recent study showed that antipsychotics only work for about a year, and then patients flip out again. I don't know, I was fine for 5 years.
I believe medicines that are available are important for those who are very ill. Ego is not a good thing to get in the way of using them. Just my opinion and my experience.
Posted by bassman on April 23, 2006, at 10:56:50
In reply to Re: Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by mgm on April 22, 2006, at 23:13:16
"By not taking your meds or not being at therapeutic dose you could be doing more harm to your body in the long run."
Exactly-also the common SSRI's and benzos are very, very non-toxic, you aren't hurting yourself longterm-besides, maybe in the future you won't need meds-many people's anxiety, for example, "burns out" as they age.
Yes, we all take medication because our lives are wonderful, but we don't appreciate it and we are all weenies. If we'd just "straighten up" and "put on a happy face", we wouldn't need any meds. I like to point out that it wasn't long ago that diabetics were put in asylums for life because of their odd behaviour (my apologies to readers that have seen this comment of mine about 3 times). I have a personal theory that the more we need meds, the more we resist them. The more balanced we are, the more we are willing to say, "heck, I'll try the meds and see if I feel better, if not...I'll can them". End of story. Society lays a huge trip on us when it comes to mental illness-as the Buddha said when asked what to do if offered a muddy (actually, it was feces, but...) stick, he said, "don't take it". Very hard to do-but we do know exactly what you mean. Maybe try and put off the recrimination for several months-say, "O.K., I'll take the meds and not question it for 6 months, then I'll evaluate". Best of luck!
bassman
Posted by minimal on April 23, 2006, at 14:52:37
In reply to Re: Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by bassman on April 23, 2006, at 10:56:50
Thanks for all of your responses.
My therapist and I are constantly working through my moral dilemmas about taking meds and my concerns about their safety. It definitely helps. The whole concern does seem to get slightly worse when I am feeling crummy, but luckfully I am feeling a little better today than yesterday, although I do feel like I could cry over small matters.
The meds do a lot for me though. I feel I am one of the success stories here. Without meds, as I've said before, depression and sadness are my overwhelming preoccupations, preventing me from doing much of anything. They allow me to really be great in so many areas of my life. I remember my grandfather and his undiagnosed social anxiety disorder/agoraphobia and major depression and I do wish he would have sought access to this technology because it would have changed his life. He was a brilliant man who lived his life in melancholia. I do not want that to be me.
It has been only a couple of weeks I think since I increased my prozac dosage so I may have another couple of weeks of feeling this way.
I do need to focus more on exercise. My diet is pretty good but I always feel better when exercising.
Again, thanks for the advice. I look forward to other responses regarding guilt and shame over taking meds.
Posted by Crazy Horse on April 24, 2006, at 6:07:17
In reply to Re: Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by madeline on April 22, 2006, at 14:30:09
> Oh Mini, my heart goes out to you so much. Please don't feel bad about taking your medicine. Please.
>
> If you had a headache and had to take aspirin to function you wouldn't think twice about it. If you had high cholesterol, you would take a lowering medication and you wouldn't think twice about it.
>
> So then why do we feel bad about taking other medicines that help us to live just as much as any drug on the market?
>
> Why is that?
>
> I think there is a pervasive undercurrent in a lot of people's minds that believe that when you have to start in these so call "psychoactive" drugs, it means that you are a failure at life. That you failed at a good diet, you failed at exercise, you failed at prayer and you can't even make yourself feel better.
>
> Well, none of that is true, you are a strong minded, strong willed person that thinks enough of themselves to try and feel better. And most of these techniques above really aren't that successful for most people anyway and yet we still think that if only we were strong enough we wouldn't need the meds.
>
> But the fact is, there a multiple, multiple clinical trials that demonstrate that in the right patient, these drugs work and offer relief. You can find any study to support anything, but far and away the most widely validated approach to treating depression is with those bottles you have in your hand.
>
> There should be no guilt or shame in using a therapy that has been validated in such a way over DECADES of reasearch.
>
> Are you in therapy as well, or is it just the meds?
>
> I hope you feel better soon and don't give up.
>
> MaddieI totally agree with Maddie. I used to feel like you do about medication..guilty, hated to rely on it, maybe i really didn't need it. After suffering break down, after breakdown, in the last 25 years, finally about 10 yrs ago i said to myself no more!! I decided i needed medicine, it was not my fault, and if i was going to get better i better damn well take it. Please take your medicine and don't feel bad about it, don't make the same miserable mistake i made for 15 yrs. Also, take adequate amounts to help you. Hey, if it makes you feel better, to be able to live a somewhat normal life (whater that is) :), then to me, and i hope for you, it is worth it. God Bless you.
Monte
Posted by joslynn on April 24, 2006, at 15:27:09
In reply to Re: Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by minimal on April 23, 2006, at 14:52:37
Hi. I struggle with those same feelings of guilt, shame and worry about the meds on and off. Right now, I am staying on them and here are some things I remind myself to help with the shame and anti-meds feelings:
I remember that I have had three recurrent severe depressions over my lifetime, with little mini episodes in between. I have a serious condition. It is not a touch of the blues. So I have to treat it seriously.
Also, I have read that recurrent depression itself causes damage to your brain chemicals, due to the releases of stress hormones. The book "The Noonday Demon" describes this well. So, while taking meds does affect brain chemistry, so does depression, in a worse way (for me). It is not like going through the depressions "au naturel" without meds is the "healthy" choice."
My Dad, who is I am convinced has suffered from untreated depression all his life, self-medicated with alcohol. Now he doesn't drink, but he just isolates at home most of the time, sitting on the couch, smoking cigarettes and yelling at the TV and my mom. That is his life. When I visit my parents and look at him, I realize that without meds, I may have been just like him. (He is very anti-meds AND anti-therapy.) So I look at him as an example of what I do not want to become.
If it is any consolation, I have been on meds about five years now, and my memory is fine. I work in a stressful field and get raises/am successful etc. Mentally I feel perfectly fine, not high and not fuzzy. Of course, this is not the case for everyone.
Also, going off meds won't just affect me. It will affect my boyfriend, my job, my friends, my creative writing. That's another thing that helps me stay on meds.
I admit though, some days I think to myself, you know, I could probably just throw those meds out the window and be fine. But then I remember what it was like going through severe depressions.
Another thing that gives me consolation...a lot of really intelligent, successful people are on some type of psych meds. If fact, when I really think about it, the people I know who have gone thru depressions and are now on meds are actually some of the smartest, most compassionate, creative people I know.
Well, those are just some random thoughts that help me.
Posted by cecilia on April 24, 2006, at 21:09:02
In reply to Re: Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by mgm on April 22, 2006, at 23:13:16
I guess I have guilt and shame about taking meds, since I can't imagine ever telling anyone other than necessary medical personnel about taking them. But really the guilt and shame isn't so much about the meds themselves, but the depression and anxiety that I take them for. If they worked, maybe I wouldn't have the guilt and shame. It's a vicious cycle, I'm ashamed because I'm depressed, and the depression causes more shame. Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on April 24, 2006, at 21:39:23
In reply to Re: Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by bassman on April 23, 2006, at 10:56:50
Diabetics put in asylums for life because of their odd behavior??????? Before, insulin was discovered, Type 1 diabetics invaribly died fairly quickly. I don't see why Type 2 diabetics then would have behavior any odder than any one else, though it's possible occasionally they might now if they were put on a medication that lowered their blood sugar too much. Cecilia
Posted by BrianBoru on April 26, 2006, at 9:36:21
In reply to Re: Guilt and Shame about taking Meds :(, posted by bassman on April 23, 2006, at 10:56:50
Speaking of diabetics, my grandfather was put into a county home because he had diabetes and exhibited some odd behavior. He died there in 1938, in a padded cell. He was 47.
This is the end of the thread.
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