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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on February 23, 2006, at 22:42:41
Seems to support my theory that some AD treatments work via creating amnesia. (Ie. I recall a few treatments that pooped out about the same time that I started to remember why I was depressed.)
http://www.hbcprotocols.com/mice.htmlLinkadge
Posted by med_empowered on February 23, 2006, at 23:35:46
In reply to Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by linkadge on February 23, 2006, at 22:42:41
I think this kind of supports my overall suspicion--that lots of times, psychiatric treatments tend to work on artificial manipulation and brain disabling rather than correcting anything. That said...done properly, medications can be helpful (I just think sometimes the wrong meds are used, and they may be overused in some populations).
Posted by TylerJ on February 23, 2006, at 23:50:22
In reply to Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by linkadge on February 23, 2006, at 22:42:41
Maybe this is why ECT works?
Ty
Posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 23:52:49
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by med_empowered on February 23, 2006, at 23:35:46
psychodynamic therapy works through reanalyzing/reinterpreting memory and past events.
it is based on dealing with deep/core/basic long term memory.learning to forget is very critical.
but not typically part of psychodymanic approaches.short term-good
long term-bad
-deleuze/guatarri> I think this kind of supports my overall suspicion--that lots of times, psychiatric treatments tend to work on artificial manipulation and brain disabling rather than correcting anything. That said...done properly, medications can be helpful (I just think sometimes the wrong meds are used, and they may be overused in some populations).
Posted by TylerJ on February 24, 2006, at 0:20:29
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by tessellated on February 23, 2006, at 23:52:49
Tess,
Are you a Scientist...whew right over my head!! You are definitely smart man!
Ty
Posted by Jakeman on February 24, 2006, at 0:55:23
In reply to Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by linkadge on February 23, 2006, at 22:42:41
> Seems to support my theory that some AD treatments work via creating amnesia. (Ie. I recall a few treatments that pooped out about the same time that I started to remember why I was depressed.)
>
>
> http://www.hbcprotocols.com/mice.html
>
>
>
> LinkadgeThere's some research out which shows taking beta-blockers (such as Inderal) at the time of the trauma can reduce its impact.
~Jake
Posted by med_empowered on February 24, 2006, at 2:27:20
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by Jakeman on February 24, 2006, at 0:55:23
propranolol **definitely** makes life less traumatic...I was almost hit by a car while taking propranolol; it didn't scare me then, nor does it bother me now.
ECT was at one time thought of as "annihilation therapy"; it was seen as destroying "bad brain cells" and with it some of the personality. Walter Freeman, the lobotomy man, once said "happiness is the pursuit of forgetfulness".
Posted by linkadge on February 24, 2006, at 9:00:48
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by med_empowered on February 23, 2006, at 23:35:46
I remember that I had taken both cogentin (an anticholinergic) and the TCA clomipramine. Both seemed to have a similar effect. Like a temporary mindless bliss. But the cholinergic axis works to resensitize itself in the presence of such agents.. hence poopout, just my theory.
Linkadge
Posted by TylerJ on February 24, 2006, at 10:33:54
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by med_empowered on February 24, 2006, at 2:27:20
Yea, I went thru ECT also. Had 24 "treatments" in 1997, with a 2 1/2 mo hospital stay. I hated the treatments, they were definitely freaky to me. And man,Right after one...ugh..it was like having the flu-w/ a super bad headache. I don't think they really helped me that much either,Just getting my meds stabilized in the hosp helped the most. They will only be a VERY LAST SOLUTION IN MY LIFE AND i HOPE AND PRAY i NEVER HAVE TO GO THRU THAT AGAIN. And yes, my memory for right b/4 hosp, and while in hosp is gone!
Posted by Phillipa on February 24, 2006, at 19:22:52
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice » med_empowered, posted by TylerJ on February 24, 2006, at 10:33:54
Did they ever do ECT on mice? Seriously not joking. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on February 24, 2006, at 22:44:37
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by Phillipa on February 24, 2006, at 19:22:52
They sure do. They often compare it to the effects of other antidepressant treatments.
Some research is sick in my oppinion.
Linkadge
Posted by tizza on February 25, 2006, at 4:50:07
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by linkadge on February 24, 2006, at 22:44:37
*Eternal sunshine on a spotless mind* comes to my mind with this thread. After seeing that movie after a bad break up with my man at the time. I thought, I'd love to have something like that done, erase it all, I don't want to remember what happened, but we all grow stronger from what we experience during our lifetime even if it leaves us devestated and incapicated at the time. Paul
Posted by tessellated on February 25, 2006, at 12:41:30
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by tizza on February 25, 2006, at 4:50:07
Forgettiing is an active process, just as creating memory is.
Spotless mind was brilliant!Imagine, if you could not forget anything how could you possibly function? The brain is not infinite.
Just imagine if you actually remembered every single phone number/name. Or worse continuously was conscious of every moment of life or of ones relationships past, lovers, parents, friends and those now dead.Often I find forgetting much more difficult than remembering.
Rather wish this was not the case.
short term good. long term bad.tesl8ed
Posted by TylerJ on February 25, 2006, at 14:30:39
In reply to Forgetting is Awesome, posted by tessellated on February 25, 2006, at 12:41:30
I agree. If we remembered everything we would literally go insane. And your right, sometimes remembering is easier than forgetting. There are definitely some things in my past I wish I could forget,but can't!
Ty
Posted by fenix on February 25, 2006, at 16:37:53
In reply to Forgetting is Awesome, posted by tessellated on February 25, 2006, at 12:41:30
You could always give yourself amnesia. Just make sure that you write yourself a letter before you do it and leave it somewhere convenient, like a pocket.
Posted by tessellated on February 25, 2006, at 17:07:27
In reply to Re: Forgetting is Awesome, posted by fenix on February 25, 2006, at 16:37:53
Yeah, even better just tattoo everything you need to know on different parts of your body!
> You could always give yourself amnesia. Just make sure that you write yourself a letter before you do it and leave it somewhere convenient, like a pocket.
Posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 15:08:57
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by med_empowered on February 23, 2006, at 23:35:46
My pdoc told me about some testing that was done where a person is shown a picture of a face that is scary or sad. They use a PET scan to see what effect it has on the individual. But sometimes, they would show a face that was blanked out and the person still had the same reaction as to the scary or depressed ones.
Maybe that's why ECT works so well. You lose some of your memory. :-)
MAxime
Posted by linkadge on February 27, 2006, at 15:23:18
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice » med_empowered, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 15:08:57
The scarry thing is that I hear from a lot of ECT'rs that their depression starts to relapse about the same time that their memory returns.
Linkadge
Posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 17:38:16
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice » Maxime, posted by linkadge on February 27, 2006, at 15:23:18
Yikes, that is scary. But I know people who lost long term memory and it never came back AND they are still suffering from depression.
Maxime
> The scarry thing is that I hear from a lot of ECT'rs that their depression starts to relapse about the same time that their memory returns.
>
>
> Linkadge
Posted by TylerJ on February 27, 2006, at 19:11:54
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice » linkadge, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2006, at 17:38:16
> Yikes, that is scary. But I know people who lost long term memory and it never came back AND they are still suffering from depression.
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> Maxime
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> > The scarry thing is that I hear from a lot of ECT'rs that their depression starts to relapse about the same time that their memory returns.
> >
> >
> > Linkadge
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You're both right. I had 24 treatments in 1997-and I have perm lost some memory of things that happened prior to the Treatments. And, yes the depression came back quickly for me...actually I don't think they even helped me that much. I know they're supposed to be the #1 "cure" for depression and they work well for SOME people. And I also know that I will NEVER put myself through ECT again. For me they were freaky and after you wake up you feel like you've been hit by a Truck-major Headache...not for me!!Tyler
Posted by fenix on February 28, 2006, at 5:24:09
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice » Maxime, posted by TylerJ on February 27, 2006, at 19:11:54
It is akin to kicking a computer that doesn't work and hoping that, by kicking, the computer will start working again. Unfortunately, even if the computer "turns on", kicking the computer tends to damage it a bit in the long run (especially some important hardware pieces such as the random-access memory).
Yup, quite barbarous really. But then again, barbarians didn't have that kind of technology.
Posted by linkadge on February 28, 2006, at 8:59:01
In reply to Re: Erasing Memory Helps Depressed Mice, posted by fenix on February 28, 2006, at 5:24:09
Yeah, in some ways I'd rather be kicked in the head, under sedation at least.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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