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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by cecilia on February 8, 2006, at 0:37:26
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal?, posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2006, at 22:21:15
I think you'd have to search a very long time to find a doctor willing to prescribe barbituates these days to a non hospitalized patient. Cecilia
Posted by paulbwell on February 8, 2006, at 0:43:36
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal?, posted by cecilia on February 8, 2006, at 0:37:26
> I think you'd have to search a very long time to find a doctor willing to prescribe barbituates these days to a non hospitalized patient. Cecilia
Apparently several folks have said that Nembutal (Pentobarbital) gave them the best sleep ever1, alas it was withdrawn from the market Nov 04.
Ame Sans Vie apparently finds that only a couple 100mg Tuinal 9Seconal+Amytal) caps, works for his insomnia, not even Seconal does! he has tried almost ALL sleep aids. His PsyDoc is probably comfortable with this, since he also receives several other Sch 11 meds.
Posted by tizza on February 8, 2006, at 23:41:42
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal? » cecilia, posted by paulbwell on February 8, 2006, at 0:43:36
I have found mogadon-(nitrazepam-benzo) very helpful for sleeping. I don't think it's available in the US though. I also suffer from sever insomnia and anxiety. Good luck as I find temezapam, zoldipem, zopiclone, oxezapam, alprazolam and lorezapam useless for sleep but valium is ok sometimes for me. Paul. See if you can ask your doctor about mogadon!!
Posted by paulbwell on February 9, 2006, at 2:34:29
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal?, posted by tizza on February 8, 2006, at 23:41:42
> I have found mogadon-(nitrazepam-benzo) very helpful for sleeping. I don't think it's available in the US though. I also suffer from sever insomnia and anxiety. Good luck as I find temezapam, zoldipem, zopiclone, oxezapam, alprazolam and lorezapam useless for sleep but valium is ok sometimes for me. Paul. See if you can ask your doctor about mogadon!!
Last time i saw my PcDoc i asked about Zopliclone, which i had had 2 scripts for, he said to stay awake and do something else, like construck, or write, or read, and stuf, so...I can buy Benedryl 50mg caps OTC which knock me out, but when buying em, i am interegrated about why i want them and am made to feel like Dope fried.
I wish i could buy whatever i wanted.
Cheers
Posted by ed_uk on February 9, 2006, at 15:24:28
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal? » tizza, posted by paulbwell on February 9, 2006, at 2:34:29
Hi P
>I can buy Benedryl 50mg caps OTC which knock me out, but when buying em, i am interegrated about why i want them and am made to feel like Dope fried.
So why not just get a prescription for a sedating antihistamine?
Ed
Posted by paulbwell on February 9, 2006, at 15:47:26
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal? » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on February 9, 2006, at 15:24:28
> Hi P
>
> >I can buy Benedryl 50mg caps OTC which knock me out, but when buying em, i am interegrated about why i want them and am made to feel like Dope fried.
>
> So why not just get a prescription for a sedating antihistamine?
>
> EdPhenagene?
I'v tried it but don't like it, I can buy ALL the Vodka, booze i like and when combined with a small amount of Diazepam (10-20mgs) works quiet well, but when trying to buy a helpfull sleep med, eg diphenhydramine, i am given the once over-no wonder there are so many alcoholics?
Cheers Ed.
Posted by tizza on February 9, 2006, at 15:52:30
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal? » ed_uk, posted by paulbwell on February 9, 2006, at 15:47:26
Actually phenergan does work very well for me too but has the groggy effect the next day.
Posted by ed_uk on February 10, 2006, at 16:07:03
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal? » ed_uk, posted by paulbwell on February 9, 2006, at 15:47:26
>Phenergan
No, diphenhydramine. Diphenhydramine is a sedating antihistamine. It was originally introduced as a treatment for allergies. You could ask your doc to prescribe it if you like.
Ed
Posted by cecilia on February 11, 2006, at 2:31:53
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal? » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on February 10, 2006, at 16:07:03
Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is sold over the counter in the U.S. I never even imagined that there would be any reason to restrict it. As far as I know it doesn't do anything other than making you a little sleepy and drying you up. Cecilia
Posted by yxibow on February 11, 2006, at 6:14:18
In reply to Diphenhydramine, posted by cecilia on February 11, 2006, at 2:31:53
> Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is sold over the counter in the U.S. I never even imagined that there would be any reason to restrict it. As far as I know it doesn't do anything other than making you a little sleepy and drying you up. Cecilia
And daytime post-depression. I dont know why people don't just take pseudo-benzodiazepines (e.g. Ambien/CR et alia.) for their REM potential. They're made for it. Drugs for side effect sleep are harsh and interrupt the sleep cycle. But I think I've said this before. :)
Posted by ed_uk on February 11, 2006, at 7:43:53
In reply to Diphenhydramine, posted by cecilia on February 11, 2006, at 2:31:53
Hi Cecilia
I find diphenhydramine OK for sleep. It doesn't affect me the following day like Phenergan does.
>Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is sold over the counter in the U.S. I never even imagined that there would be any reason to restrict it. As far as I know it doesn't do anything other than making you a little sleepy and drying you up.
Like other sedating antihistamines, it has a very minimal potential for misuse.
Ed
Posted by cecilia on February 11, 2006, at 23:46:09
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine » cecilia, posted by yxibow on February 11, 2006, at 6:14:18
A lot of people probably take Benadryl or other OTC sleeping pills like Unisom (doxylamine succinate) because their doctors are unwilling to prescibe as much Ambien or other real sleeping pills as they need. Also, Ambien is incredibly expensive, and I've heard the new ones like Lunesta are even worse. Cecilia
Posted by yxibow on February 12, 2006, at 1:29:44
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine Yxibow, posted by cecilia on February 11, 2006, at 23:46:09
> A lot of people probably take Benadryl or other OTC sleeping pills like Unisom (doxylamine succinate) because their doctors are unwilling to prescibe as much Ambien or other real sleeping pills as they need. Also, Ambien is incredibly expensive, and I've heard the new ones like Lunesta are even worse. Cecilia
Its unfortunate that doctors are unwilling to do so because these medications promote real sleep. Yes, they're new and retail cost (Costco) is about $3 a day, as most new medications start off at. Sonata and then Ambien (not CR) may fall off patent in a few years, but Lunesta will still remain.In depressed patients though, Benadryl can cause post-wakeful depression. I know I personally experience depression the day after.
The only other one I would recommend and is fortunately cheap as a generic benzodiazepine is Restoril/temazepam. Its a little better on the system.
Old line antihistamines cause harsh and needless drying of the system.
Remeron has now gone off patent so the generic is about half the cost, and 7.5mg will promote fairly good sleep if one can monitor their weight.
Posted by cecilia on February 12, 2006, at 3:19:45
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine Yxibow » cecilia, posted by yxibow on February 12, 2006, at 1:29:44
My pdoc prescribes both temazepam and ambien to alternate luckily, I guess he figures that since he's never been able to come up with anything that helps my depression the least he can do is let me sleep. Temazepam is covered by my HMO, but the Ambien I have to pay for out of pocket. It's definitely worth the money, though sometimes nothing works. I take benadryl occasionally in the hope of avoiding building up a tolerance to the others. I haven't tried Lunesta, don't want to rock the boat in case my doctor decides to stop prescribing the others. Lunesta and Ambien CR are sure going for an all out war on the TV commercials, no wonder they cost so much. Cecilia
Posted by ed_uk on February 12, 2006, at 4:42:52
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: Yxibow, posted by cecilia on February 12, 2006, at 3:19:45
We have generic zopiclone and zolpidem (Ambien, Stilnoct, Stilnox) in the UK.
On a private prescription, a months supply of 10mg zolpidem would cost you less than £7.00 (about $12.00). Brand name Stilnoct would be a bit more expensive.
Zopiclone (very similar to Lunesta) is less expensive. A months supply of 7.5mg on a private prescription would cost you about £5.30 ($9.30).
Temazepam is cheap here too. A months supply of 20mg would cost you about £4.00 ($7.00).
Meds are too expensive in the US. The pharm companies rip you off.
We pay £6.50 ($11.50) for all NHS prescriptions here but I thought you might be interested in the private (non-NHS) costs to compare them with the prices you have to pay.
Fluoxetine (generic Prozac) is particularly cheap here. On a private prescription, a months supply of 20mg would cost you about £4.00 ($7.00).
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on February 12, 2006, at 4:46:26
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: Yxibow » cecilia, posted by ed_uk on February 12, 2006, at 4:42:52
It's also interesting to note that UK drug prices are not the cheapest in the world by any means. It seems that US drug prices are very high though. I guess you get other stuff cheaper though. It's so expensive to buy a house in England that even young people on very high salaries are struggling. Those on low pay (such as myself) don't have a chance.
Ed
Posted by cecilia on February 12, 2006, at 18:19:05
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: Yxibow » cecilia, posted by ed_uk on February 12, 2006, at 4:42:52
My Ambien (regular not CR, which I suspect is even more expensive) costs $139.35 for 45 tablets ($3.09 a tablet). Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on February 12, 2006, at 18:28:33
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: EdUK, posted by cecilia on February 12, 2006, at 18:19:05
Drugs ARE crazily overpriced in the U.S. I recently had a series of 3 Synvisc injections for knee pain, which did absolutely nothing and cost me $679, as my HMO didn't cover them either. Cecilia
Posted by ed_uk on February 13, 2006, at 13:45:38
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: EdUK, posted by cecilia on February 12, 2006, at 18:19:05
So your Ambien is ~7 times more expensive than our Ambien. Hmmm.
Ed
Posted by cecilia on February 14, 2006, at 1:47:02
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: EdUK » cecilia, posted by ed_uk on February 13, 2006, at 13:45:38
Our Ambien is supposed to go generic in a couple of years, so hopefully will be cheaper then. I suppose that's why they're pushing the CR version so hard. When Ambien CR first came out I didn't see what the point was except to make more money for the drug companies (usually the reason for CR versions of drugs) but now that I"ve been on Marplan I definitely see the point, I wake up every hour on that stuff. Fortunately I'll be off it soon, I'm weaning off for knee sugery, but it's had no benefits. I keep thinking of the cheese dishes I will have when I'm off. I've never been a big cheese eater, but you miss what you can't have. (Though no, I've had no craving for liver or pickled herring.) Of course, if it had worked it would be well worth giving up the cheese, but unfortunately I can't say I had any real expectation that it would work, nothing ever has. They wouldn't want me in a drug study, I have anti-placebo effects. Cecilia
Posted by ed_uk on February 14, 2006, at 16:24:12
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: EdUK, posted by cecilia on February 14, 2006, at 1:47:02
I can't imagine anyone craving liver Cecilia! Cheese is different though. I love cheese ;)
Ed
Posted by tizza on February 14, 2006, at 19:44:53
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: EdUK, posted by cecilia on February 14, 2006, at 1:47:02
I just can't believe how much money you guys pay for meds in the US. It's disgraceful. I pay about $11 AUD (australian dollars) for 50 tabs of Valium which would probably be about $8 US
Posted by paulbwell on February 15, 2006, at 2:45:09
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: EdUK, posted by tizza on February 14, 2006, at 19:44:53
> I just can't believe how much money you guys pay for meds in the US. It's disgraceful. I pay about $11 AUD (australian dollars) for 50 tabs of Valium which would probably be about $8 US
I was last month scripted 90, 5mg Valiums-BUT my (friendly) pharmacist somehow? gave me 180 5mg tabs:)Double-God bless him, it cost me nothing, because i am on a national frequent (health use) user program.
I was scripted Zopliclone, 7.5mg recently, and found it (somewhat) usefull, although the first time i took em' i took 10, with a few drinks, and had a GREAT restfull sleep, waking up at 9am the next morning, refreshed.
Subsequent trials with a single 7.5mg or 1.5 tabs resulated in a pleasant late afternoon nap.
Quite frankly 100-150mgs Diphenhydramine, knocks me out, AND i DON'T need a Docs permission to take it!!
Of course a Vodka or 2 with 10-15mgs Diazepam works well too:)
Cheers
Posted by ed_uk on February 15, 2006, at 15:01:03
In reply to Re: Sleep Meds: EdUK, posted by tizza on February 14, 2006, at 19:44:53
Diazepam is so cheap in the UK it's difficult to see how they can even manufacture the box for that price LOL.
Ed
Posted by maxx1 on July 30, 2006, at 16:01:34
In reply to Re: Sleep troubles!-Barbiturates? Seconal Tuinal? » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on February 10, 2006, at 16:07:03
I am looking for a doctor in NJ to prescribe Tuinal and Valium. Does anyone know of any?
This is the end of the thread.
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