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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by fiftylager on January 26, 2006, at 20:03:31
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice... » fiftylager, posted by fires on January 26, 2006, at 15:57:06
I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you. My mother calls it a nervous breakdown and so does her counsellor. I'll try to be more careful. You could call it a suicide attempt but it was more a call for help. She downed a bottle of lorazepam with a micky of whiskey. She called my dad at work and told him.
I am very sympathetic to her as she and I are much the same with anxiety and depression.
Posted by fires on January 26, 2006, at 20:52:17
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice..., posted by fiftylager on January 26, 2006, at 20:03:31
>> I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you.<<
No problem. I'm hypersensitive about its use.
>> My mother calls it a nervous breakdown and so does her counsellor.<<
I find the fact that her counselor uses the term a little unusual. Here's some info. from the web site How Stuff Works, which is why I find the counselor's use of the term unusual:
""Nervous breakdown" is not a clinical term. There is no psychiatric definition of a nervous breakdown, and it has nothing to do with nerves. "Nervous breakdown" is an inexact and unscientific term that is no longer used in psychiatry."
>
> I am very sympathetic to her as she and I are much the same with anxiety and depression.<I am too. Also, so you don't think I'm only negative: I recently emailed a thank you to a TV psychologist who was on Larry King Live with other guests, talking about Bipolar Disorder and Depression.
She made a lot of statements about the illnesses being physiological rather than psychological. It was somewhat surprising considering her bio. on her web site: http://www.drrobiludwig.com/?p=biography
BTW, she responded to my email.
Posted by fiftylager on January 26, 2006, at 21:04:38
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice..., posted by idolamine on January 25, 2006, at 22:36:55
Oh my goodness! I saw a counsellor when I was teen (bad depression, suicidal) and he suggested bipolar because I use to get really hyper between my lows. I mean, I was really wacky. I did some reckless stuff. I just did some reading and it scared me. Could it be? I do have changing moods, mostly very bad anxiety, scared, hopeless, guilt, can't stop talking, depression but not as severe as when I was a teen. I'll spend too much money then have a panic attack when I do it. Could I have it or am I just looking for an answer?
Posted by 4WD on January 26, 2006, at 21:25:55
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice..., posted by fiftylager on January 26, 2006, at 20:03:31
> I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you. My mother calls it a nervous breakdown and so does her counsellor. I'll try to be more careful. You could call it a suicide attempt but it was more a call for help. She downed a bottle of lorazepam with a micky of whiskey. She called my dad at work and told him.
>
> I am very sympathetic to her as she and I are much the same with anxiety and depression.Hey, what happened to me was a nervous breakdown - and I don't mind calling it that. It perfectly describes what happened and I don't find it pejorative. I broke down from overwhelming anxiety. I know it's not a true diagnosis DSM-wise but it's a pretty description term.
Marsha
Posted by 4WD on January 26, 2006, at 21:35:26
In reply to Re: Bipolar II, posted by fiftylager on January 26, 2006, at 21:04:38
> Oh my goodness! I saw a counsellor when I was teen (bad depression, suicidal) and he suggested bipolar because I use to get really hyper between my lows. I mean, I was really wacky. I did some reckless stuff. I just did some reading and it scared me. Could it be? I do have changing moods, mostly very bad anxiety, scared, hopeless, guilt, can't stop talking, depression but not as severe as when I was a teen. I'll spend too much money then have a panic attack when I do it. Could I have it or am I just looking for an answer?
Hi Fiftylager,Some people get more anxious on SSRIs like Celexa or Prozac or Zoloft. I do. For a long time I was fine on Effexor but still a nervous jittery sort of person. When Effexor kind of pooped out for depression, I switched to Paxil and had the same sort of reaction you talked about. I was terrified within a few days of starting it.
About the bipolar. I don't know if I'm truly bipolar or if I just get bipolar symptoms from being on SSRIs but what has helped me is a combination of Effexor and Depakote (an anticonvulsant drug that also acts as a mood stabilizer). If your doctor is unwilling to provide benzos then this might be an option since Depakote (or another mood stabilizer) could help with the jitteryness caused by the antidepressant.
But first, I think I might try the Effexor. For me, for a long time, it truly did control my anxiety all by itself. I still was kind of nervous but I was totally functional and even happy a lot of the time.
You doc might also be willing to prescribe Buspar for your anxiety. It doesn't work as well for most people as benzos but it might be better than nothing. One thing that make a benzo-phobic doctor change her mind is if you were to show up in her office unannounced in the middle of an especially bad anxiety attack. Sometimes I think they don't have a clue how bad it can get and think you should just be able to tough it out. When they see someone actually shaking with fear and can measure their elevated blood pressure and see the tears and the horror in the patient's face, they just might have a better idea of what you are going through.
Hope this helps a little. I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. It sounds so much like where I've been and am just barely beginning to emerge from.
Marsha
Posted by fires on January 26, 2006, at 21:49:54
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice... » fiftylager, posted by 4WD on January 26, 2006, at 21:25:55
> > I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you. My mother calls it a nervous breakdown and so does her counsellor. I'll try to be more careful. You could call it a suicide attempt but it was more a call for help. She downed a bottle of lorazepam with a micky of whiskey. She called my dad at work and told him.
> >
> > I am very sympathetic to her as she and I are much the same with anxiety and depression.
>
>
>
> Hey, what happened to me was a nervous breakdown - and I don't mind calling it that. It perfectly describes what happened and I don't find it pejorative. I broke down from overwhelming anxiety. I know it's not a true diagnosis DSM-wise but it's a pretty description term.
>
> Marsha
>
So your nerves broke down? Which ones and how many? ;-) I have "hay fever" which has nothing to do with hay and it doesn't cause a fever.
Posted by shasling on January 26, 2006, at 22:27:23
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice... » 4WD, posted by fires on January 26, 2006, at 21:49:54
I'm with Marsha, fiftylager should call it whatever she wants. She's here to express herself. We knew what she meant. New people ought not to be chased off for fear that they have expressed themselves 'wrong'.
Fiftylager - You should call your situation whatever you like to call it; its your post. This is the first time I've ver seen someone correctd on how they should express themselves. I'm sorry that happened with you being new and all. Its usually a very affirming and safe place to express yourself. Stick around. We are glad you are here.
Posted by fires on January 26, 2006, at 22:57:09
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice..., posted by shasling on January 26, 2006, at 22:27:23
> I'm with Marsha, fiftylager should call it whatever she wants. She's here to express herself. We knew what she meant. New people ought not to be chased off for fear that they have expressed themselves 'wrong'.<
Chased off? I didn't chase anyone off.
>
> Fiftylager - You should call your situation whatever you like to call it; its your post. This is the first time I've ver seen someone correctd on how they should express themselves.<Gotta go -- my wife is having a hysterectomy because she's hysterical & my schizophrenic brother's split personality is splitting again. 8-)
Posted by shasling on January 26, 2006, at 23:41:28
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice... » shasling, posted by fires on January 26, 2006, at 22:57:09
> > I'm with Marsha, fiftylager should call it whatever she wants. She's here to express herself. We knew what she meant. New people ought not to be chased off for fear that they have expressed themselves 'wrong'.<
>
> Chased off? I didn't chase anyone off.You're making me want to leave and I didn't just reach out on my first post and desperately seek advice.
> >
> > Fiftylager - You should call your situation whatever you like to call it; its your post. This is the first time I've ver seen someone correctd on how they should express themselves.<
>
> Gotta go -- my wife is having a hysterectomy because she's hysterical & my schizophrenic brother's split personality is splitting again. 8-)
>
That's very entertaining. If only we were here to be entertained...It was inappropriate to micromanage the language used by someone who was reaching out for help.
Now go ahead and have fun with all that
>
>
>
>
Posted by finelinebob on January 27, 2006, at 0:51:50
In reply to New here and desperately looking for advice..., posted by fiftylager on January 25, 2006, at 22:13:48
Please folks, this is is fiftylager's thread, let's not hijack it thru our own sensitivities.
fifty -- there's an emerging diagnosis some call bipolar III or bipolar spectrum disorder. Spectrum being the key term. My own situation is hard to pidgeonhole with any one diagnosis -- like just about everybody. But BSD is often used for people who move between depression and anxiety, not mania. Poor response to SSRIs (like celexa). Laundry list of other things that can make it sound like everyone is BSD. But there are things about your experiences that sound familiar, so I had to chime in ... particularly since I just started seeing a wonderful new pdoc today who is just incredibly knowledgeable about the physiology of all this stuff.
The most important thing to remember is that YMMV -- your mileage may vary.
Another indicator for BSD is positive response to tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs). I tanked on SSRIs, but have been very stable on nortriptyline (a TCA) for about 7-8 years now. Given my anxiety, tho, my new pdoc almost considered switching me to effexor. He said that effexor could have a similar effect on managing mood while being even more effective with my anxiety. So maybe trying the effexor wouldn't be such a bad thing to consider.
A couple of people have mentioned klonopin as well. Klonopin's a benzo, and benzo's have a reputation for being addictive. I had been on klonopin on a daily basis for 5 years or so. Got off meds for a while -- no cravings, no withdrawal. Got with a different pdoc and he wouldn't start me back up on it, even tho it had been the most effect med I'd taken for managing my anxiety (to that point). Back with my new pdoc, he said that rep is rubbish for klonopin, that it's a safe drug wrt addictiveness. I'm glad to be back on it.
I'd hate to say any more given the YMMV rule. What it does come down to is having a doc that knows psych meds, and a general practitioner is not going to have the time nor the highly specialized knowledge to really know psych meds well. Even if yo only wind up consulting with a psychiatrist once every 3 months after a few initial visits, the knowledge a pdoc can bring to your treatment can be worth more than a dozen gp's can bring.
Be well,
bob
Posted by summerflowers on January 27, 2006, at 3:54:44
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice... » fires, posted by shasling on January 26, 2006, at 23:41:28
Hi shasling,I CANT BELIEVE WHAT YOU WERE JUST PUT THROUGH.Iv just read all of this.PLEASE dont feel scared off.Hi.Im summerflowers.I know just how you feel.I had the symptoms of bipolar,it started when I was 13-14.I had very severe lows and highs.I have 5 children,I had my first when I was 18(who is now 15) and at the moment my youngest is 9 mounths old.My bipolar changed over the years,to something I have worked out to be mixed bipolar.I am constantly anxious,worked up,talkative,hypo,stressed,worry,racing thoughts and ideas,but also I am fearfull,have social anziety,withdrawn,while at the same time I can feel really happy and high on everything around me,everything is beutifull,people are beutifull,so many wonderfull ideas,but in the blink of an eye I feel sad. which makes me sound really messed up,but bear in mind im not on any medication,nor have been for over 18 years,apart from antidepressants,for a short while which didnt help.I think the fact I havent been medicated is what made the bipolar change,as well as other factors,such as hormones,and lonliness.My best friends in life are my partner and children.And my mum.I pretty much stick to only them.I also had my children at home,then felt so lost when the last one went to school.I didnt know what to do,what career to follow,and the whole thought of going out there was like entering another world.Im slowly starting to feel better lately.Iv joined a group over the net,fighting for a cause I feel very emotional about,which seems to be really helping me find out who I am.I also have been looking into medications and plan on trying one out.I also want to give up smoking,cofee,eat differently for energy and weight loss,and exercise,because I want to tackle feeling better in all ways.So,shasling,sorry to ramble on,when I read your first posting,I was going to ask you something that came to mind,but read the replys first to see if it hadnt allready been mentioned,only to find you being absolutly scared off!!!!!!!What I wanted to say was:Have you had your thyroid cheaked,and also hormones?If I recall,thyroid or hormones can cause similar symptoms,especially thyroid.If you havent you should get that cheaked.Keep in touch with me here OK>
Posted by shasling on January 27, 2006, at 9:24:12
In reply to Shasling, posted by summerflowers on January 27, 2006, at 3:54:44
> Hi shasling,I CANT BELIEVE WHAT YOU WERE JUST PUT THROUGH.Iv just read all of this.PLEASE dont feel scared off.Hi.Im summerflowers.I know just how you feel.I had the symptoms of bipolar,it started when I was 13-14.I had very severe lows and highs.I have 5 children,I had my first when I was 18(who is now 15) and at the moment my youngest is 9 mounths old.My bipolar changed over the years,to something I have worked out to be mixed bipolar.I am constantly anxious,worked up,talkative,hypo,stressed,worry,racing thoughts and ideas,but also I am fearfull,have social anziety,withdrawn,while at the same time I can feel really happy and high on everything around me,everything is beutifull,people are beutifull,so many wonderfull ideas,but in the blink of an eye I feel sad. which makes me sound really messed up,but bear in mind im not on any medication,nor have been for over 18 years,apart from antidepressants,for a short while which didnt help.I think the fact I havent been medicated is what made the bipolar change,as well as other factors,such as hormones,and lonliness.My best friends in life are my partner and children.And my mum.I pretty much stick to only them.I also had my children at home,then felt so lost when the last one went to school.I didnt know what to do,what career to follow,and the whole thought of going out there was like entering another world.Im slowly starting to feel better lately.Iv joined a group over the net,fighting for a cause I feel very emotional about,which seems to be really helping me find out who I am.I also have been looking into medications and plan on trying one out.I also want to give up smoking,cofee,eat differently for energy and weight loss,and exercise,because I want to tackle feeling better in all ways.So,shasling,sorry to ramble on,when I read your first posting,I was going to ask you something that came to mind,but read the replys first to see if it hadnt allready been mentioned,only to find you being absolutly scared off!!!!!!!What I wanted to say was:Have you had your thyroid cheaked,and also hormones?If I recall,thyroid or hormones can cause similar symptoms,especially thyroid.If you havent you should get that cheaked.Keep in touch with me here OK>
Summerflowers, such a sweet post and I'd love to claim it, but this post you mean for fiftylager; she posted the original thread. I entered the discussion becasue I was bothered that on her first post she was made to feel she was wrong and owed an apology to someone for her choice of words, so I affirmed her right to express herself in her own words and assure her there isn't anything wrong about her. Had that been me, on my first post, I would have so needed that affirmation so I tried to give that to her. Maybe I over-project, I don't know... Anyway, in affirming her I ended up in a non-productive discussion with a third party and inadvertently further derailed her post. For that I apologize to fiftylager and anyone else. Suzie
Posted by fiftylager on January 27, 2006, at 10:37:21
In reply to Re: Shasling Summerflowers, Fiftylager, posted by shasling on January 27, 2006, at 9:24:12
Hi there. I haven't been scared off. I just felt a little dumb, lol. I guess some people are sensitive about generalizations and I'm okay with that. I thank you all for making me feel so welcome.
I am on buspar but it's not working. I've been on it for almost 2 months. At first I was elated, woo hoo, this is working. I wanted to dance and tell the whole world, which a I practically did. This past week, it just doesn't seem to be working. I'm very depressed about it. I seem to be in a sad, anxious place this week. I've taken a few lorazepam to help but I'm running out. I've written my entire history down for my doctor to read (dr's intimidate me and I clam up). She can decide where to go after that. I'm so happy I've found a place where you're all so willing to help. Thank you!
Posted by fires on January 27, 2006, at 11:58:46
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice..., posted by finelinebob on January 27, 2006, at 0:51:50
> fifty -- there's an emerging diagnosis some call bipolar III or bipolar spectrum disorder. Spectrum being the key term. My own situation is hard to pidgeonhole with any one diagnosis -- like just about everybody. But BSD is often used for people who move between depression and anxiety, not mania.<<In my case it's hypomania.
>> Given my anxiety, tho, my new pdoc almost considered switching me to effexor. He said that effexor could have a similar effect on managing mood while being even more effective with my anxiety. So maybe trying the effexor wouldn't be such a bad thing to consider.<<
Effexor triggered my BP (officially BP-NOS). I was never BP before taking Effexor.
>
> A couple of people have mentioned klonopin as well. Klonopin's a benzo, and benzo's have a reputation for being addictive. I had been on klonopin on a daily basis for 5 years or so.<<I've been on Klonopin since 1990. No signs of addiction. I have 3 docs that agree -- Klonopin has a bad reputation that is undeserved. They like it because it is longer acting then the other benzos, and has relatively few side effects.
I know some disagree, but they consider it dependency, rather than addiction, because few, if any Klonopin users exhibit addictive behaviors.
Posted by fires on January 27, 2006, at 12:22:53
In reply to Re: Shasling Summerflowers, Fiftylager, posted by shasling on January 27, 2006, at 9:24:12
> > Hi shasling,I CANT BELIEVE WHAT YOU WERE JUST PUT THROUGH.Iv just read all of this.PLEASE dont feel scared off.<<
I don't recall her saying that she had been/felt scared off. I think it would be prudent if others would cease telling her how she should feel.
>>I entered the discussion becasue I was bothered that on her first post she was made to feel she was wrong and owed an apology to someone for her choice of words...<<I don't recall saying that she owed anyone an apology. Once again, maybe others should cease telling her how they interpreted my statements. I think she can decide for herself how to interpret them.
<<"Had that been me, on my first post...<<
Yes, it wasn't you.
Posted by fires on January 27, 2006, at 12:55:48
In reply to Re: It's me fiftylager, posted by fiftylager on January 27, 2006, at 10:37:21
> Hi there. I haven't been scared off. I just felt a little dumb, lol. I guess some people are sensitive about generalizations and I'm okay with that. I thank you all for making me feel so welcome.<<
Thank you for clearing up this matter. It appears that you realized that I wasn't trying to chase/scare you off. I notice that you used "lol" after saying that you "just felt a little dumb". I think that indicates that you didn't take my remarks as seriously as others did.
Anyway, welcome! Independent thinkers, such as yourself, are infinitely valuable to a group.
Please correct me if I've misinterpreted your comments in any way.
>
> I am on buspar but it's not working. I've been on it for almost 2 months. At first I was elated, woo hoo, this is working. I wanted to dance and tell the whole world, which a I practically did. This past week, it just doesn't seem to be working. I'm very depressed about it. I seem to be in a sad, anxious place this week. I've taken a few lorazepam to help but I'm running out. I've written my entire history down for my doctor to read (dr's intimidate me and I clam up). She can decide where to go after that. I'm so happy I've found a place where you're all so willing to help. Thank you!
Posted by summerflowers on January 27, 2006, at 14:11:21
In reply to Re: Shasling Summerflowers, Fiftylager, posted by shasling on January 27, 2006, at 9:24:12
Sorry,I was speaking to the original poster fiftylager,iv got the names mixed up.
Posted by TylerJ on January 27, 2006, at 17:52:55
In reply to New here and desperately looking for advice..., posted by fiftylager on January 25, 2006, at 22:13:48
First thing find yourself a Board Certified Psychiatrist-even if you have to travel to see him or her. This is a very impt. first step. A good pdoc will give you a number of tests i.e.,thyroid and others and after a thorough interview make a hopefully correct diagnosis. Your anxiety sounds very bad-I know the feeling, You need a pdoc who will prescribe benzos- like ativan or xanax. You need relief right NOW!! Then depending on the diagnosis he will prescribe the appropriate medication that should help or eliminate your anxiety. But please be patient (easier said then done I know) but it may take a few trys on different meds to find the right one. REMEMBER...you will get relief, so hang in there, stay in touch with the people here, and most importantly find the right pdoc. And if you believe in God ask for His help...I do believe in God and I will Pray for you. Please take care of yourself,and never give up...you will get better!
TylerJ
Posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2006, at 18:07:42
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice..., posted by TylerJ on January 27, 2006, at 17:52:55
Posted by fires on January 26, 2006, at 22:57:09
>So your nerves broke down? Which ones and how many? ;-) I have "hay fever" which has nothing to do with hay and it doesn't cause a fever.
> Gotta go -- my wife is having a hysterectomy because she's hysterical & my schizophrenic brother's split personality is splitting again. 8-)
I recognize that you indicated your use of humor, but please be sensitive to the feelings of others who may feel differently about mental illness terms.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
gg acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2006, at 18:11:09
In reply to Please be sensitive, fires, posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2006, at 18:07:42
Posted by shasling
>New people ought not to be chased off for fear that they have expressed themselves 'wrong'.
>You're making me want to leave
>she was made to feel she was wrong and owed an apology to someone for her choice of wordsPlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
posted by summerflowers>only to find you being absolutly scared off
Please don’t jump to conclusions about others or post anything that could lead others to feel accused.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civilFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
gg acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by 4WD on January 27, 2006, at 20:55:24
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice... » 4WD, posted by fires on January 26, 2006, at 21:49:54
> > > I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend you. My mother calls it a nervous breakdown and so does her counsellor. I'll try to be more careful. You could call it a suicide attempt but it was more a call for help. She downed a bottle of lorazepam with a micky of whiskey. She called my dad at work and told him.
> > >
> > > I am very sympathetic to her as she and I are much the same with anxiety and depression.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey, what happened to me was a nervous breakdown - and I don't mind calling it that. It perfectly describes what happened and I don't find it pejorative. I broke down from overwhelming anxiety. I know it's not a true diagnosis DSM-wise but it's a pretty description term.
> >
> > Marsha
> >
>
>
> So your nerves broke down? Which ones and how many? ;-) I have "hay fever" which has nothing to do with hay and it doesn't cause a fever.
>
>The ones in my brain. About 75% of them.
Posted by fires on January 27, 2006, at 22:06:39
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice... » fires, posted by 4WD on January 27, 2006, at 20:55:24
> > So your nerves broke down? Which ones and how many? ;-) I have "hay fever" which has nothing to do with hay and it doesn't cause a fever.
> >
> >
>
> The ones in my brain. About 75% of them.I hope that everyone appreciates my sense of humor.
The following is a true classic that I discovered via Google:
"Nervous Breakdown"
"What's in a name? In the olden days they called it vapors, melancholia, neurasthenia, neuralgic disease, nervous prostration. Indeed, the medical profession originally thought that it was a disease of the peripheral nerves – only later deciding that perhaps it was a disease of the mind. What's the difference? We all know one when we see one: it's a crack-up."
Source: http://www.sarahchanaradcliffe.com/art_nervous.htm
First it's a nervous break"down" -- then a crack "up". Up, down -- anyone for sideways? :-) x 100
Posted by ed_uk on January 28, 2006, at 7:53:17
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice... » 4WD, posted by fires on January 27, 2006, at 22:06:39
Neurasthenia, I always liked that term. I find it rather descriptive in an old fashioned sort of way.
Ed
Posted by fires on January 28, 2006, at 12:35:15
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice..., posted by ed_uk on January 28, 2006, at 7:53:17
> Neurasthenia, I always liked that term. I find it rather descriptive in an old fashioned sort of way.
>
> EdI have a copy of The American Illustrated Medical Dictionary, Dorland, 2nd ed., 1944. It has some interesting archaic terms terms in it.
It has about 20 subtypes of neurasthenia, including:
acoustic, spinal, optic, gravis, adrenal, and grippal (post influenza (grip) type).
anxiety -- 3 types listed one, of which is castration anxiety.
Posted by greywolf on January 29, 2006, at 17:54:32
In reply to Re: New here and desperately looking for advice... » finelinebob, posted by fires on January 27, 2006, at 11:58:46
I don't know if anyone's mentioned it because I don't have time to read through all the posts, but you might want to check our Nardil for the depression and Xanax for anxiety. It worked pretty well for me for a time.
This is the end of the thread.
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