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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MrBrice on December 14, 2005, at 13:43:48
Hi,
i suffer lack of energy and motivation, due to experimentating with drugs two years ago. I think the drugs may have lowered my testosterone levels up to a point that i really had to little and that's where my train got off it's tracks.
Now i wanna get back on and i'm highly considering testosterone treatment.
I must say that i am 20 years old, and i very much fear screwing up my body by using to much or not needing it, will the testosterone just fasten an aging process that is definitely going to find place, or will it exceed that process and turn me into a different person???
i hope someone with experience/expertice will respond, thanks in advance.
Bryco
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 14, 2005, at 15:38:50
In reply to Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by MrBrice on December 14, 2005, at 13:43:48
> Hi,
>
> i suffer lack of energy and motivation, due to experimentating with drugs two years ago.Two years is a long time. Your body has had ample time to recover, no matter what those drugs were that you experimented with.
> I think the drugs may have lowered my testosterone levels up to a point that i really had to little and that's where my train got off it's tracks.
That's one possible explanation, from among many hundreds or thousands of explanations.
> Now i wanna get back on and i'm highly considering testosterone treatment.
Testing is easy and very exact. Ask a doctor to order the blood tests.
> I must say that i am 20 years old, and i very much fear screwing up my body by using to much or not needing it, will the testosterone just fasten an aging process that is definitely going to find place, or will it exceed that process and turn me into a different person???
Why don't you get a doctor to check you out? Misuse of hormones can have dangerous consequences.
> i hope someone with experience/expertice will respond, thanks in advance.
>
> BrycoI think your first act should be to consult a doctor. It is rare for a 20 year old male to be deficient in testosterone to the extent you suggest. There are other causes of lack of energy and motivation. A simple test will determine if testosterone is the problem.
Lar
Posted by xjs7 on December 14, 2005, at 15:44:15
In reply to Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by MrBrice on December 14, 2005, at 13:43:48
What do the blood tests show? If you are hypogonadal then you need TRT. Don't take testosterone if your numbers are not low. If you are healthy then taking testosterone will make you worse as it will shut down your testes, and will cause infertility.
The most common drugs that cause hypogonadism are chemotherapeutic agents, but it doesn't sound like you were using that kind of drug. If you haven't had a blood test yet, make sure to get one. Do you have morning erections? If not then you may be hypogonadal.
Posted by MrBrice on December 14, 2005, at 17:05:25
In reply to Re: Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by xjs7 on December 14, 2005, at 15:44:15
> What do the blood tests show? If you are hypogonadal then you need TRT. Don't take testosterone if your numbers are not low. If you are healthy then taking testosterone will make you worse as it will shut down your testes, and will cause infertility.
>
> The most common drugs that cause hypogonadism are chemotherapeutic agents, but it doesn't sound like you were using that kind of drug. If you haven't had a blood test yet, make sure to get one. Do you have morning erections? If not then you may be hypogonadal.
my experimenting with drugs included substances like cocaine and xtc. My young and foolish deeds are giving their consequences...quite stupid istn't it.I think of testosteron as a possible cause, cause i tried some antidepressants ssri and maoi and none of them really had statisfactory results...
I have a very big mister to support my theory: Sigmund Freud himself:
The biggest source of motivation according to him is the hungre for sex, ie EROS. This is i think the testosterone. It keeps you sharp and competing, and evolving in the circle of life, out of wich i feel i have fell.i will take the tests asap and see what other people can make out of it, it sounds cynic but i hope i have a deficiency...
Posted by xjs7 on December 14, 2005, at 19:11:04
In reply to Re: Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by MrBrice on December 14, 2005, at 17:05:25
If you have a deficiency you will need shots or gels for the rest of your life. You will be going to the pharmacy and buying controlled substances (which can cost over $200 a month), which you will have to apply every day for the rest of your life. No showering for 6 hours after applying the gel, which must be removed before having sex. The alternative is to get shots every 1-4 weeks from your doctor's office. These can be painful, and for best results you need them every two weeks or less. And when I say painful, I mean painful. Meanwhile your testes will shrink and you may develop prostate problems, bigger breasts, and a bunch of other problems.
Posted by Iansf on December 14, 2005, at 21:51:17
In reply to Re: Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by xjs7 on December 14, 2005, at 19:11:04
There are many men who take testosterone regularly with no ill effects. But still the essential task is to get your testosterone measured. You should ask to get measures of both total serum testosterone and total free testosterone. A person could have a high testosterone level but low level of free testosterone, and vice versa. Definitely don't attempt to supplement testosterone until you know for certain your level is low.
> If you have a deficiency you will need shots or gels for the rest of your life. You will be going to the pharmacy and buying controlled substances (which can cost over $200 a month), which you will have to apply every day for the rest of your life. No showering for 6 hours after applying the gel, which must be removed before having sex. The alternative is to get shots every 1-4 weeks from your doctor's office. These can be painful, and for best results you need them every two weeks or less. And when I say painful, I mean painful. Meanwhile your testes will shrink and you may develop prostate problems, bigger breasts, and a bunch of other problems.
Posted by MrBrice on December 15, 2005, at 4:20:04
In reply to Re: Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by xjs7 on December 14, 2005, at 19:11:04
> If you have a deficiency you will need shots or gels for the rest of your life. You will be going to the pharmacy and buying controlled substances (which can cost over $200 a month), which you will have to apply every day for the rest of your life. No showering for 6 hours after applying the gel, which must be removed before having sex. The alternative is to get shots every 1-4 weeks from your doctor's office. These can be painful, and for best results you need them every two weeks or less. And when I say painful, I mean painful. Meanwhile your testes will shrink and you may develop prostate problems, bigger breasts, and a bunch of other problems.
hmm, this doestn't sound very encouraging :-(If the problem is not my testosterone, i might have to take stupid antidepressants for the rest of my life, with no super effects at all. These meds will make me loose or gain weight, may give me rashes, low bloodpressure, wired feeling...
I guess either way i'm not very good off now am i.
You might see it a little to negative. With a stroke of luck, i am in need of a little testosterone now, and maybe after a couple of months or years normal testosterone status is reached, witheout shrinking testikels.
I keep my fingers crossed either way.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 15, 2005, at 8:44:52
In reply to Re: Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by MrBrice on December 15, 2005, at 4:20:04
> If the problem is not my testosterone, i might have to take stupid antidepressants for the rest of my life, with no super effects at all. These meds will make me loose or gain weight, may give me rashes, low bloodpressure, wired feeling...
>
> I guess either way i'm not very good off now am i.
>
> You might see it a little to negative. With a stroke of luck, i am in need of a little testosterone now, and maybe after a couple of months or years normal testosterone status is reached, witheout shrinking testikels.
> I keep my fingers crossed either way.Sir, you have created a false dilemma, a black and white dichotomy of future paths. It's not "this" or "that" and nothing in between.
Have you analysed your diet? Have you had your thyroid checked? Have you tried St. John's wort? Bright light therapy? Cognitive behavioural therapy? (I hear more than a slight echo of guilt) Vigorous excercise?
The very first thing you need to do is to broaden your horizons. You have a kind of tunnel vision just now. "If it's not your 'nads, you're out of luck." There are many causes of fatigue, and for each of those causes, many possible treatments.
As someone who has been working on a similar problem for many years, I can offer up my experience. I didn't find one sole treatment that made the difference. I found many things with moderate effects. Every little bit helps. And every once in a while, you find something that puts a rocket in yer bum, and off you go. Hopefully forever, maybe just for a while. But you've still got all those bits going your way.
It's more than a tad boring getting depressed over and over again, but you can become quite good at it.
As a new poster, you may be unaware of the breadth of resources here, at your fingertips.
There's the Alternative board, where stuff like diet and supplements and St. John's wort and lights and stuff is yammered about.
There's the Health board, where medical disorders with psych components carry.
There's the Faith board, where some heavy debate goes on, but there are some transcendent discussions as well.
The Psychology board where talk therapy and cognitive styles and such are all the rage.
Relationships, for this in, or out of one.
Social, for whatever.
Substance Use, for problematic recreational activities like you alluded to a couple of years back.
And more. I don't go to every board.
Read the FAQ, while you're at it. Get a sense of what is meant by civility here. And, if you turn on Babblemail, there's a whole new world of safe communication available to you, when you don't want to say something in front of the whole world.
Good luck,
Lar
Posted by MrBrice on December 15, 2005, at 13:06:54
In reply to Re: Testosterone for Young males 20 years » MrBrice, posted by Larry Hoover on December 15, 2005, at 8:44:52
Dear mr Larry Hoover,
I'm afraid you're drawing conclusions here WAY to fast.
I am seeing a neuropsy for about 1.5 years now. We tried lots of things to give me back competetiveness, energy ...
I've taken vitamines, st johns, prozac, eldrepryl, olmifon, and now willong.None of them had the effect they're supposed to have. They had effect tough, but none really got to the roots of my problem. Now i have heard and read about testosterone and the puzzle seems to come together, witheout even trying the stuff i think this might just be the source of my problem. My doc who i just saw agrees: The dope reduced my testosterone and put me on a b-track.
I'm having my blood drawn this monday.
So excuse me for saying but your conclusion was wrong and way out of your league. I appreciate the answer, but try not to rush into conclusions next time.
Posted by alohashirt on December 16, 2005, at 20:46:10
In reply to Re: Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by MrBrice on December 15, 2005, at 13:06:54
Larry-> "MrBrice, don't jump to conclusions .."
MrBrice-> "Don't jump to conclusions, suggesting I'm jumping to conclusions..."Good luck with the neuropsy - but if you're not getting results it might be that it's not a neuropsy problem. That's what I understood Larry to be suggesting and I think it's a great point for all of us. Distinguishing between symptoms of a "condition" and plain old sadness, grief, apathy, boredom, dissatisfaction, a life that doesn't fit, wrong relationship, alcohol, wrong job, living in the wrong place, needing God, needing no God, etc can be really hard.
Good luck.
> Dear mr Larry Hoover,
>
> I'm afraid you're drawing conclusions here WAY to fast.
>
> I am seeing a neuropsy for about 1.5 years now. We tried lots of things to give me back competetiveness, energy ...
> I've taken vitamines, st johns, prozac, eldrepryl, olmifon, and now willong.
>
> None of them had the effect they're supposed to have. They had effect tough, but none really got to the roots of my problem. Now i have heard and read about testosterone and the puzzle seems to come together, witheout even trying the stuff i think this might just be the source of my problem. My doc who i just saw agrees: The dope reduced my testosterone and put me on a b-track.
>
> I'm having my blood drawn this monday.
>
> So excuse me for saying but your conclusion was wrong and way out of your league. I appreciate the answer, but try not to rush into conclusions next time.
Posted by MrBrice on December 16, 2005, at 21:07:43
In reply to Jumping (Re: Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by alohashirt on December 16, 2005, at 20:46:10
>
> Larry-> "MrBrice, don't jump to conclusions .."
> MrBrice-> "Don't jump to conclusions, suggesting I'm jumping to conclusions..."
>
> Good luck with the neuropsy - but if you're not getting results it might be that it's not a neuropsy problem. That's what I understood Larry to be suggesting and I think it's a great point for all of us. Distinguishing between symptoms of a "condition" and plain old sadness, grief, apathy, boredom, dissatisfaction, a life that doesn't fit, wrong relationship, alcohol, wrong job, living in the wrong place, needing God, needing no God, etc can be really hard.
>
> Good luck.
>hey alohashirt,
you're probably right. If my problem is indeed situated with testosteron, i don't really need a psydoc, but rather an adrologist (do they also call'm that in english?).
My docter told me he allready suspected that this whole situation might be something else then psychological problems.
I recently read an article that indeed stated that recreational drug use leads to decrease of testosterone. I never had problems with it, but from my birth i allways had low testosterone, my puberty came at the age of 16 whereas with most guys it starts at 13-14. The drugs probably just lowered my levels beyond reasonnable, and that's why all this psychiatric circ started.
In the end, i'm very well off. Since my problem is probably biologically situated, it's probably quite easy te resolve.
and at lary hoover, sorry if i seemed to assertive in my post, i didn't mean no wrong whatsoever.
b.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on December 18, 2005, at 10:52:15
In reply to Testosterone for Young males 20 years, posted by MrBrice on December 14, 2005, at 13:43:48
I would consult an endocrinologist or a competent psychopharmacologist on this, but, despite what people say, exogenous testosterone does not have any irreversible side effects that I know of. The doses at which serious things happen is also at anabolic doses, not really androgenic doses.
I take exogenous testosterone proprionate/nonanoate ester depot injections made by my organic chemist friend for Nardil sexual dysfunction. Supposedly my new psychopharmacologist is going to prescribe me Andriol (oral testosterone undecylate), but we'll see about that. It has completely ameliorated any signs of sexual dysfunction whatsoever; now sex on the drug is better than sex off the drug (no anxiety/etc) to the delight of my partner and I.
You can use it in 3-6 week cycles if you want.
This is the end of the thread.
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