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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 8:55:41
I've been taking Seroquel for about a year now. When I first started taking it, I was taking 25 to 50 mgs and falling asleep beautifully without any prominent side effects. However, as time has passed, I have needed to increase the dosage in order to fall asleep and now am taking 100 mgs every night. And it causes me to eat. And eat. And eat. I even get up in the middle of the night to eat.
As a recovering anorectic, this side effect is particularly disturbing to me. I want to stop taking it, but my history is complicated.
I cannot take benzodiazepines or Ambien because I am a recovering drug addict and have severely abused these drugs in the past. Lunesta is often ineffective in helping me fall asleep and worsens my depression. Trazodone made me feel like I was in a nightmare, awake and yet paralyzed in my body. Risperdal calmed me down but did not help me fall asleep. Benadryl, Vistaril, and other anti-histamines are completely ineffective.
Is there anything left to take?
I was thinking maybe Gabatril - supposedly effective for insomnia with minimal weight gain. Thoughts, suggestions, ideas?
Posted by lunesta on December 12, 2005, at 11:26:03
In reply to Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 8:55:41
Gabatril can actually cause seizures, a warning was relased on that by the FDA and it hasnt turned out to be the best drug people thought it would be. Have you tried Neurontin High dose, or the new Lyrica which is the best sleep aid next to Xyrem?
Also, there is Rozerem.
Posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 11:55:25
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by lunesta on December 12, 2005, at 11:26:03
> Gabatril can actually cause seizures, a warning was relased on that by the FDA and it hasnt turned out to be the best drug people thought it would be. Have you tried Neurontin High dose, or the new Lyrica which is the best sleep aid next to Xyrem?
>
> Also, there is Rozerem.I tried Rozerem. It worked for a few nights and then completely stopped working.
The problem with Neurontin is that is can cause weight gain - and cognitive deficiencies, which is a problem, considering I'm a pre-med student and need my cognition intact! Does Lyrica cause weight gain?
Posted by lunesta on December 12, 2005, at 13:12:02
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 11:55:25
Lyrica is the best sleep medicine ever, but yes it causes massive hunger and weight gain. Its super super super super neurontin basically. It is controlled substance even because it can make you feel sort of euphoric.
Hmmm. Have you tried doxepin?
If you can find a physcian who prescribes Xyrem, your problem will be solved. Though, it will be hard unless you have narcolepsy or fibromyalgia/CFS or 100% intractable sleep problems.
You said you dont want to use benzos? Klonopin is good if you do chose them, or Restoril.
Have you tried Zanaflex, or Soma? They also are good, Zanaflex will knock you way out but its not approved for sleep disorder you would need it off label.
Magnesium Sulphate injections, and vitamin b12 injections also often help sleep.
Posted by yxibow on December 12, 2005, at 15:41:57
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by lunesta on December 12, 2005, at 13:12:02
> Hmmm. Have you tried doxepin?
Doxepin is rather effective as a tricyclic but can cause hefty hangovers for the first few times that one must be prepared for.
> Have you tried Zanaflex, or Soma? They also are good, Zanaflex will knock you way out but its not approved for sleep disorder you would need it off label.
Soma is actually more of a drug of abuse; sigh -- I wish I could take it for my back.
Ambien may be C-IV but it really isn't a drug of abuse per se from my opinion. I suffer from bad insomnia and have taken between 10 and 20mg at times (its labelled at 10 but people take more). Beyond 20, its kind of self-limiting, with nasty nausea and so I doubt it is abuse-potentful although I do not know your situation. It can be used long term regardless of the label. I kind of hate to see off-label drugs used as sleep because they tend not to promote REM as well, save for perhaps Remeron which causes massive weight gain unlike the true sleep agents on the market.
Tidings and hopefully a good nights sleep.
Posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 15:59:51
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by lunesta on December 12, 2005, at 13:12:02
> Lyrica is the best sleep medicine ever, but yes it causes massive hunger and weight gain. Its super super super super neurontin basically. It is controlled substance even because it can make you feel sort of euphoric.
>
> Hmmm. Have you tried doxepin?
>
> If you can find a physcian who prescribes Xyrem, your problem will be solved. Though, it will be hard unless you have narcolepsy or fibromyalgia/CFS or 100% intractable sleep problems.
>
> You said you dont want to use benzos? Klonopin is good if you do chose them, or Restoril.
>
> Have you tried Zanaflex, or Soma? They also are good, Zanaflex will knock you way out but its not approved for sleep disorder you would need it off label.
>
> Magnesium Sulphate injections, and vitamin b12 injections also often help sleep.I'm thinking Gabitril, then. I cannot take ANY meds that cause ANY euphoria, from benzos to Xyrem to (apparently) Lyrica because I WILL end up abusing them, I know that from experience - and ending up in the hospital with benzodiazepine seizures after taking bottles of benzos with the intention of just taking one for sleep.
I can't take tricyclics because I also take Parnate.
Posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 16:01:16
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gai, posted by yxibow on December 12, 2005, at 15:41:57
> > Hmmm. Have you tried doxepin?
> Doxepin is rather effective as a tricyclic but can cause hefty hangovers for the first few times that one must be prepared for.
>
>
> > Have you tried Zanaflex, or Soma? They also are good, Zanaflex will knock you way out but its not approved for sleep disorder you would need it off label.
>
> Soma is actually more of a drug of abuse; sigh -- I wish I could take it for my back.
>
> Ambien may be C-IV but it really isn't a drug of abuse per se from my opinion. I suffer from bad insomnia and have taken between 10 and 20mg at times (its labelled at 10 but people take more). Beyond 20, its kind of self-limiting, with nasty nausea and so I doubt it is abuse-potentful although I do not know your situation. It can be used long term regardless of the label. I kind of hate to see off-label drugs used as sleep because they tend not to promote REM as well, save for perhaps Remeron which causes massive weight gain unlike the true sleep agents on the market.
>
> Tidings and hopefully a good nights sleep.
I have abused Ambien before. I took it and stayed up and it caused euphoria and hallucinations, leading me to take approximately 100 mgs to try and increase the euphoric effect.I cannot take any drugs that cause euphoria.
Posted by zeugma on December 12, 2005, at 17:08:58
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 15:59:51
I can't take tricyclics because I also take Parnate.>>
I think a low dose of doxepin for sleep would be OK with Parnate, ask your pdoc.
-z
Posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2005, at 20:29:00
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain? » tygereyes, posted by zeugma on December 12, 2005, at 17:08:58
Well if this is true and believe me I've tried all the sleep meds including chloral hydrate mickey finn with alchohol. Pamelor l0mg knocked me out. I felt I had meshed with my bed. So I've not taken it again. And believe me I have a high tolerance for benzos. But now I only take l0-l5mg of valium. And staying up late helps to fall asleep fast. And yes I do occasionally take more but then drop back down. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by lunesta on December 12, 2005, at 21:09:54
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 15:59:51
Gabitril CAUSES seizures in many people that have already had them, especially from abuse of other meds like benzos , as your seizure threshold is already lowered. The FDA put out a black box warning on this earlier this year.
I would not suggest using it. It also can be addiciting and abusing and cause seizures while ON IT.
Try eating a larage amount of carbohydrates before bedtime, this will put you to sleep, or try tryptophan. These actually do work. Intractable sleep problems, I had also, the key is to stay up for many days stright, your body will automatically release endorphins since it is stress and make you fall asleep. Do this for awhile and take NO drugs whatsoever and your sleep cycle will eventually return to normal. Get a light box and wake up and goto sleep at exact same time every night.
Posted by lunesta on December 12, 2005, at 21:28:11
In reply to Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 8:55:41
H0w about Keppra? That might be a good option...
Posted by lunesta on December 12, 2005, at 21:29:04
In reply to Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 8:55:41
actually, topamax too! that will totally make you LOSE weight and sedate you a lot.
Posted by MoparFan91 on December 13, 2005, at 9:45:32
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by lunesta on December 12, 2005, at 21:29:04
> actually, topamax too! that will totally make you LOSE weight and sedate you a lot.
I second that. I take Topamax for my BP-NOS, and it helped me to actually sleep again.
It helps to regulate my sleep.Before it, sleep was something I was so desparate for. It would take ages to get to sleep, and I would wake up 12+ times thru entire night. Then I'd wake up feeling a tad crashy and in a fog.
Now, I go to sleep almost right away. I get 5 hours of basic uninterrupted sleep and feel ok. Then for rest of night, I have dreams that I remember, and I wake up at times then go back to sleep to dream again. Then, I'm pretty much ready to go for the day and overall fairly rested.
So, overall, I would rate my sleep as OK now.
Posted by Colleen D. on December 13, 2005, at 20:01:34
In reply to Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 8:55:41
Doxepin is the drug I take for sleep. 25mg one hour before my anticipated bedtime. It works great for me and is one of the sedative TCAs that is weight neutral and may even decrease appetite. It's inexpensive too.
Good luck!
Colleen
MDD, OCD, GAD and SP
Posted by andydopa on December 13, 2005, at 22:41:26
In reply to Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gain?, posted by tygereyes on December 12, 2005, at 8:55:41
tygereyes,
Like you, I'm also on Parnate. I have addictive and anorexic issues and am also very sensitive to anything that causes cognitive dysfunction. I also like William Blake and have a thing for tigers. Weird...Anyway, On top of my Parnate (40mg daily), I take 600mg gabapentin (neurontin), and 25-37.5mg seroquel. The gabapentin I take in divided doses, one in the morning and one at night along with the seroquel. Have not needed to escalate the the seroquel with this combination (although I admit there wasn't much need for seroquel escalation before adding the gabapentin either, 37.5mg has always done the trick).
Don't know what studies you're reffering to about the gabapentin causing cognitive dysfunction, but most of them say that it is minimal to none. The studies in mice actually support the idea that it improves memory. A search on pubmed for "gabapentin AND memory" will show this. Might be worth a shot. Has had good overall effects for depression and anxiety. I'm also able to get away with a lower dose of seroquel most of the time at night.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on December 14, 2005, at 2:24:39
In reply to Re: Sleeping meds least likely to cause weight gai, posted by andydopa on December 13, 2005, at 22:41:26
nm
This is the end of the thread.
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