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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 7, 2005, at 18:37:35
I know many will disapprove of this.. but oh well. I am an older student and about to start a pre-med track in college and I know it is going to be extremely difficult and long hours of studying.
I have heard that many students ( who do not have ADD) will take Ritalin or Adderall to help stay alert and focus better.
Has anyone out there used it for this purpose? Can you tell me how it helped you and if it might be worth using every once in awhile when you are in a crush?
Which one is better for that purpose ? Does it help memomory at all.. any genaeral info would be appreciated.
Jim
Posted by blueberry on December 7, 2005, at 19:34:36
In reply to Ritalin/ Adderall for studying.. anyone done this?, posted by Jimmyboy on December 7, 2005, at 18:37:35
Adderall. Just a personal preference though. It lasts longer than ritalin and is a bit smoother. Should be great for studying. Just don't take too much though, or else you'll have so much energy that instead of wanting to study you'll want to do all the things you've been meaning to do for the last year and never got around to it. :-)
And if you take an exam, you'll probably need to take a little bit to get your mind back to that same place it was when you were studying.
When I was in college I crammed about 2 months of missed classes and reading into one night while on amphetamines...stayed up all night doing it...sleepy on the drive to class for the exam...took some more amphetamine...got a B on my final exam...not bad for missing 2 months!
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 7, 2005, at 19:51:16
In reply to Re: Ritalin/ Adderall for studying.. anyone done this?, posted by blueberry on December 7, 2005, at 19:34:36
Did you use the regular or Adderall XL?
Jim
Posted by linkadge on December 7, 2005, at 21:26:38
In reply to Re: Ritalin/ Adderall for studying.. anyone done this? » blueberry, posted by Jimmyboy on December 7, 2005, at 19:51:16
I would say that, nothing beats spending the time required to learn a topic properly.
I've thought about this issue lots, and have been prescribed ritalin in the past.
My take is that stimulants can provide short term benefits. But you need to know when to use them and when not to.
They tend to expend a lot of energy with each dose. So if you gain any level above baseline, you will experience a rebound dumbness, fatigue and lack of concentration, and depression after the med wears off. (At least that has been my experience, and with talking to others that don't have ADD).
So if you are going to use a stimulant, for an exam. Then make sure nothing important is happening the next day.
I personally don't recomend it because of the way that cramming with stimulants can severly tax the system.
I used ritalin for a while. I noticed a very small increase in my grades, but it wasn't worth the roller coaster. Depression, irritabilty, paranoia, increased anxiety, crashing, loss of appetite, burnout, etc.
But I suppose there's not much harm if they are used extremely infrequently and judiciously.
Linkadge
Posted by med_empowered on December 7, 2005, at 23:39:26
In reply to Re: Ritalin/ Adderall for studying.. anyone done this?, posted by linkadge on December 7, 2005, at 21:26:38
actually...when I prescribed Adderall, one of my docs wanted to me take Adderall PRN, or at least reduce the dose and then do more as-needed. I was a bit taken aback; I offered to reduce the dose, but taking strictly "as-needed" seemed inappropriate.
Anyway, I'd recommend Adderall or Dexedrine. XR, IR, doesn't really matter--just have several of whatever dosage and form you choose to keep an even keel. Some benzos can be helpful to kill off any jitters, just be sure to use in low doses.
Posted by vbAgent on December 8, 2005, at 1:03:00
In reply to Re: Ritalin/ Adderall for studying.. anyone done this?, posted by med_empowered on December 7, 2005, at 23:39:26
I recommend immediate release Adderall or Dexedrine. You will have much more mental (& physical) energy, motivation and perseverance to complete your assignments. You'll also find that previously boring topics or subjects become more interesting; so much that you may obsess over them.
Exercise extreme cautious if you plan on acquiring amphetamines without a doctor's prescription. In the event you're busted, you will damage your credibility and, possibly, trash your future in the pre-med track at your college. And let's not talk about the legal consequences!
Schedule an appointment with a local psychiatrist if you suspect you're ADD/ADHD. Always try the legal route first. Who knows, you may succeed! You seem like a smart guy.
Posted by Phillipa on December 8, 2005, at 21:37:51
In reply to Re: Ritalin/ Adderall for studying.. anyone done t, posted by vbAgent on December 8, 2005, at 1:03:00
I went back also as an older student. The excitment of persuing a career made it possible for me to be drug free and all I did was study. My advise is not to cram but to study daily. That way you will be able to learn more and will not require meds to acommplish this. I gruaduated magna cum laude. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Sarah T. on December 9, 2005, at 0:51:38
In reply to Ritalin/ Adderall for studying.. anyone done this?, posted by Jimmyboy on December 7, 2005, at 18:37:35
As someone who has HAD to take antidepressants and stimulants for depression, ADD and cognitive dysfunction caused by an inoperable medical condition, it is difficult for me to understand why anyone would want to take these drugs if they don't absolutely have to.
I agree wholeheartedly with Linkage and Phillipa, who posted earlier in this thread. The best studying is done consistently, over a long period of time. It's important to get plenty of rest, too. Try, as best you can, not to cram. Do you plan to work (for pay) during the semester? How long will the pre-med program be? If you can spread the courses out over at least a couple of years, and work (for pay) only part-time or not at all during the semester, then you probably won't need to cram and/or use stimulants. Also, you should know that there is a considerable amount of evidence indicating that learning is state-dependent. By that, I mean that in order to retrieve the information you've learned, you need to be in the same state you were in when you learned the material. So, if you studied material while on amphetamines (or Paxil or Prozac or whatever), you will need that chemical in order to fully retrieve/remember what you studied. And state-dependency doesn't just apply to drugs. Environmental conditions and time of day/circadian rhythms and many other factors play a part in information retrieval.
As Linkage, said, if you use amphetamines infrequently and judiciously, there shouldn't be any problem; however, if you feel you need stimulants to fool yourself into thinking you're interested in the material, then some soul-searching is in order. If you're not naturally and spontaneously drawn to the biomedical sciences, then medicine may not be the field for you. Or, if you feel you have to take stimulants in order to motivate yourself, you might be depressed or have some other medical problem that requires treatment.
I suggest trying to do your school work regularly and consistently, relying on medications ONLY for "emergencies" (like having two final exams scheduled on the same day). And be grateful that you don't have to take medications in order to function. When you are in medical school, or perhaps before that, you will learn that even the best medicines are deeply flawed.
Posted by vbAgent on December 9, 2005, at 1:08:24
In reply to Re: Ritalin/ Adderall for studying.. anyone done this? » Jimmyboy, posted by Sarah T. on December 9, 2005, at 0:51:38
Excellent post Sarah T. ;-)
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 9, 2005, at 11:23:20
In reply to Re: Ritalin/ Adderall for studying.. anyone done this? » Jimmyboy, posted by Sarah T. on December 9, 2005, at 0:51:38
I whole heartedly agree with most of the above advice.. I am also on other meds ( Wellbutrin, Klonopin) and adding another to the mix like Adderall/ Ritalin on a consistant basis would just be plain stupid.. especially b/c I am at a a stable point in my life.
But, I am taking a huge load of classes ( Calculus, Organic chem, Anatomy/Physio, Physics) ( I started taking pre-med yrs ago , never finished and now I am coming back to it) ..
Suffice to say you forget alot of the general chemistry , microbiology , etc. over the course of a few years . So basically I was wondering if the amphetimines could help in an "emergency situation" , not as an everyday thing..
But I have also been a regular pot smoker for a few years ( I am in the process of quitting .. was impossible before b/c my live in girlfriend smoked 24/7.. but we are now broken up now) .
So my short term memory is definitely not the greatest..
Since the amphetimine route does not seem so wise, does anyone have any suggestions on othe med/supplements that could help my memory ( or at least get it back to bewfore I was a pot head?)
I have heard that boron, L-Carnitine, and something called Huperzine-A all could help .. of oh course ginko ( but I heard that doesn't work)
Anyway, sorry for the book long post, just trying to get some info and this forum is good for that ..
Jim
Posted by linkadge on December 9, 2005, at 18:14:03
In reply to Non-stimulant memory enhancers????, posted by Jimmyboy on December 9, 2005, at 11:23:20
I have had some sucess with alpha lipoic acid, melatonin, and omega 3. Folic acid is also a common deficiancy effecting cognition.
Exercise is probably (in my oppinion) the single most effective thing that can be done for mood and cognition.
Plus, if you get in over your head with the courses, drop something before resorting to drugs. Like phillipa said, you've got your whole life, don't burn yourself out too soon!
Linkadge
Posted by med_empowered on December 10, 2005, at 1:05:15
In reply to Re: Non-stimulant memory enhancers????, posted by linkadge on December 9, 2005, at 18:14:03
PRACTICE. Take as many classes as you can handle; develop good study habits. Challenge yourself a bit. Repeat as needed.
Seriously--you're a smart kid. More important than drugs or supplements is an overall healthful lifestyle, plus challenges that help you build your skills and your self-confidence.
Good luck.
Posted by Sarah T. on December 10, 2005, at 4:14:05
In reply to Non-stimulant memory enhancers????, posted by Jimmyboy on December 9, 2005, at 11:23:20
Hi. You mentioned that you smoke pot and also take Klonopin. First, I think you have to stop smoking pot, especially if you do it on a regular basis. I cannot imagine taking all those difficult classes if you're a regular pot smoker. I'll bet that the pot impairs memory.
Secondly, Klonopin is a good drug, and I think it is definitely one of the better benzodiazapines; however, like all benzodiazapines, it does impair memory and it interferes with certain stages of sleep. You don't need memory impairment, and you don't need sleep disruption. Whatever you do, DON'T STOP KLONOPIN ABRUPTLY! It's one of those medicines that you have to taper very slowly over a long time. I don't know whether pot smoking has to be tapered slowly, but you should definitely get off the pot. If you do continue to smoke it, do it only once in a blue moon.
I know that Wellbutrin can be very agitating, so I can see why you might need to counteract it with more sedating substances like Klonopin, but since you are concerned about memory, I just thought you should know that benzodiazapines definitely interfere with memory and sleep.
Another thing I want to mention is that, if you do decide to take a stimulant at some point, be VERY CAREFUL if you are still taking Wellbutrin (or any other medicines, for that matter). I have met several people here and elsewhere who are able to combine Wellbutrin with a stimulant, but I know others, like myself, who could not tolerate that combination. I was OK the first day I tried to combine Wellbutrin and Dexedrine, but by the second day, I was severely ill. I stopped taking them together, and it took about 4-5 days before I was back to my old self, and that was after having taken very tiny doses of each. Also, I'm sorry to be an alarmist, but I know of someone who died on a combination of Wellbutrin and Adderall. She was a student who had been on Wellbutrin for depression. During finals week in December, a few years ago, she took some Adderall to cram for her exams. She was still taking Wellbutrin. She went into cardiac arrest and died. If you haven't already read about the cytochrome P450 liver enzymes and their role in drug metabolism, you will probably come across the topic soon. Each of us metabolizes drugs differently based on our genetic makeup, and different ethnic groups metabolize drugs differently. Some drugs compete for the same enzyme. Some drugs inhibit enzymes that are necessary to metabolize other drugs. It can get very complicated when you're on multiple medications (or "polypharmacy"). As I said earlier, some people have no problem metabolizing these drug combinations; others can get very sick. So be very careful. Good luck to you!
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 10, 2005, at 9:07:53
In reply to Re: Non-stimulant memory enhancers???? » Jimmyboy, posted by Sarah T. on December 10, 2005, at 4:14:05
Thanks for the info Sarah T...
After reading even the first couple of posts I decided taking a stimulant to help study was not wise and definitely not worth any benefit it may bring.
As for the pot, I know that definitely impairs memory (bad) and am in the process of quitting .. have not had any in a few days and staying away from my friends who smoke until I feel like I won't be tempted.
Anyway, thanks for the corcern ..
Jim
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