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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bigcat on December 5, 2005, at 15:46:54
I started Effexor about two weeks ago and it kicked in after a couple days and remained great for about ten days, more or less. I started to slip a couple days ago, and now I am extremely depressed and defeated. I thought this was the one. It felt natural, I had acess to my brain unobscured from self loathing, OCD, awful anxiety and cognitive impairment and confusion. It was the best remission I've experienced throughout six years of med failures and horrific depression/anxiety.
This experience has happened many times to me, when a med kicks in very early into the trial, and then fades out just as quickly. I've had about two weeks of freedom on the Nardil, Serzone, partial response to Elavil recently, and a couple hypomanic weeks on Marplan (didn't respond to 90mgs of Parnate). Dexedrine actually gave me a couple great months and I thought I was healed, and then poopage happened again. What would you say this indicates? I've gotten my hopes up so many times and have been so excited to have my life "begin" (15 years of depression/severe anxiety/OCD, social fear, and mild paranoia. 16 ECT treatments failed. I'll stay on the Effexor for now and hope it may start doing something again after being in my system longer, but I'm doubtful this will happen. So much frustration, so many failures.
So an early response to meds (full remission, not feeling somewhat improved) followed by being in hell again just as fast has been my case. I've never had a gradual improvement while on a med, it's just been so fast in for a brief period and then out with a crash. Benzos do nothing for me; extremely high doses do nothing either. I suppose giving meds more time could help, but I just don't know. I frequently get much worse upon starting a new med. I can't read my history at all, and don't know where to go from here. I suppose I'll drop the Effexor dose way down from 300mgs to 150. I feel hopeless, please help.
-matt-
Posted by iforgotmypassword on December 5, 2005, at 16:55:33
In reply to Effexor: The agony and the ecstacy, posted by bigcat on December 5, 2005, at 15:46:54
have you tried adding remeron? this is a very strong, synergistic combination. they have two different action but they are supposed to be two drugs that often activate the other.
Posted by Bob on December 5, 2005, at 20:40:39
In reply to Effexor: The agony and the ecstacy, posted by bigcat on December 5, 2005, at 15:46:54
> I started Effexor about two weeks ago and it kicked in after a couple days and remained great for about ten days, more or less. I started to slip a couple days ago, and now I am extremely depressed and defeated. I thought this was the one. It felt natural, I had acess to my brain unobscured from self loathing, OCD, awful anxiety and cognitive impairment and confusion. It was the best remission I've experienced throughout six years of med failures and horrific depression/anxiety.
>
> This experience has happened many times to me, when a med kicks in very early into the trial, and then fades out just as quickly. I've had about two weeks of freedom on the Nardil, Serzone, partial response to Elavil recently, and a couple hypomanic weeks on Marplan (didn't respond to 90mgs of Parnate). Dexedrine actually gave me a couple great months and I thought I was healed, and then poopage happened again. What would you say this indicates? I've gotten my hopes up so many times and have been so excited to have my life "begin" (15 years of depression/severe anxiety/OCD, social fear, and mild paranoia. 16 ECT treatments failed. I'll stay on the Effexor for now and hope it may start doing something again after being in my system longer, but I'm doubtful this will happen. So much frustration, so many failures.
>
> So an early response to meds (full remission, not feeling somewhat improved) followed by being in hell again just as fast has been my case. I've never had a gradual improvement while on a med, it's just been so fast in for a brief period and then out with a crash. Benzos do nothing for me; extremely high doses do nothing either. I suppose giving meds more time could help, but I just don't know. I frequently get much worse upon starting a new med. I can't read my history at all, and don't know where to go from here. I suppose I'll drop the Effexor dose way down from 300mgs to 150. I feel hopeless, please help.
>
> -matt-When you say that the 16 ECT treatments failed, does that mean they did nothing at all, it was a mixed bag, or they did bad things instead of good?
Posted by bigcat on December 5, 2005, at 20:48:38
In reply to Re: Effexor: The agony and the ecstacy » bigcat, posted by Bob on December 5, 2005, at 20:40:39
When you say that the 16 ECT treatments failed, does that mean they did nothing at all, it was a mixed bag, or they did bad things instead of good?
They did nothing. It screwed my memory some, but it wasn't a huge deal for me (the potential to get better far outweighed any memory issues). I was off meds before the treatments and back on soon after. That's about it.
Posted by Bob on December 5, 2005, at 21:12:53
In reply to Re: Effexor: The agony and the ecstacy » Bob, posted by bigcat on December 5, 2005, at 20:48:38
> When you say that the 16 ECT treatments failed, does that mean they did nothing at all, it was a mixed bag, or they did bad things instead of good?
>
> They did nothing. It screwed my memory some, but it wasn't a huge deal for me (the potential to get better far outweighed any memory issues). I was off meds before the treatments and back on soon after. That's about it.
>
>Wow. It's amazing how different we all are, and what a difficult problem this is for humanity. I had 21 or 22 treatments, and mine was the "mixed bag" scenario, only the bag was mostly full of bad things. It ended up, in the long run, being a seriously bad experience, and anything but benign. And of course, I had plenty of memory loss. I too got off all meds before starting, but needed emergency intervention with benzos and Li during the treatments. That's one thing I hate about these treatments is the unpredictability of it all, and the complete lack of repeatable results from one patient to the next.
Posted by blueberry on December 6, 2005, at 5:02:04
In reply to Effexor: The agony and the ecstacy, posted by bigcat on December 5, 2005, at 15:46:54
Though there is an ongoing controversy about it in the psychiatric world, many pdocs now believe that the poopout phenomenon is an indication of bipolar. Those pdocs recommend a mood stabilizer like lithium, depakote, or lamictal as the primary treatment and an antidepressant as an add on. And some of them claim that if you haven't tried a mood stabilizer all by itself for depression, then you haven't tried a mood stabilizer. All controversy though, no one really knows, I'm just sharing what I've heard.
Adding 25mg to 50mg of naltrexone was popular a few years ago for treating ssri poopout, sometimes restoring effectiveness to a level even better than the original one. Haven't heard much about it lately.
For me the one thing that prevented poopout better than anything was a mere 2.5mg zyprexa added to an antidepressant. I got 5 good years out of that strategy and still wasn't depressed. Other weird longterm prozac side effects caused me dump the prozac and switch to other ssri's. I still rely on 2.5mg zyprexa as an augmenter, an ssri side effect canceller, and a poopout preventer.
Posted by bigcat on December 6, 2005, at 11:00:30
In reply to Re: Effexor: The agony and the ecstacy, posted by blueberry on December 6, 2005, at 5:02:04
Very interesting about the Zyprexa. Where would I be without this forum? It always gives me ideas and hope. Thanks a ton blueberry. I was very surprised about the comment that poopout could indicate bipolar. I often wonder when a med kicks so wonderfully whether I become slightly manic, or if its just me being thrilled to be alive and free. That said, I was definatley hypomanic on the Marplan, Dexedrine, and Nardil when each fist kicked in. I've taken Lithium and Lamictal on their own (I'm still on the Lamictal in conjunction with the Effexor) and they haven't touched my depression. It's quite possible that I'm bipolar yet only experience the one side of the condition, being terribly depressed. Since my mood never changes unless a med brings me a little too high (only to fall off immedaitely afterwards), the mania never manifests itslef, and I feel that a mood stabilizer is extraneous if all it would do is prevent the hypomania that could (very rarely) occur upon starting a new med.
I obsess horribly and believe this is the hub of my depressive wheel. The cycling thoughts are just really amped up, and I would even call them racing. While racing thoughts are associated with mania, these racing thoughts just keep reminding myself of how horrible I feel. I can't escape my mind and am always talking to myself and never just responding. I can't break the "ME ME ME" barrier. I'd' call it obsessive self- referencing, always watching myself and never "BEING" myself. Thanks again, and I hope you may able to shine some light on what I descibed.
Zyprexa is an anti-psychotic, right? Could it, in addition to preventing poopout, free me from talking to myself and never living "in the moment"? The self-examination never ceases and just reinforces my depressive thought patterns. When the depression is broken up, I still don't have a calm feeling. I obsess about being better, constantly telling myself how good I feel, which is unnatural and not, I believe, what remission should feel like. Grrrr...
-matt-
Posted by ed_uk on December 6, 2005, at 14:57:54
In reply to Re: Effexor: The agony and the ecstacy » blueberry, posted by bigcat on December 6, 2005, at 11:00:30
Dear Matt
>I was very surprised about the comment that poopout could indicate bipolar.
It's a popular theory at the moment.
>I often wonder when a med kicks so wonderfully whether I become slightly manic, or if its just me being thrilled to be alive and free.
I was wondering whether you were mildly hypomanic when Effexor kicked in?
>I've taken Lithium and Lamictal on their own (I'm still on the Lamictal in conjunction with the Effexor) and they haven't touched my depression.
Have you ever taken Lamictal and lithium in combination? Might be useful to try this in future.
>Zyprexa is an anti-psychotic, right?
Yes, it's an atypical AP.
>Could it, in addition to preventing poopout, free me from talking to myself and never living "in the moment"?
Zyprexa can be calming. Some people prefer Seroquel, some prefer Zyprexa. I'm surprised that you haven't tried Zyprexa actually!
Love
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on December 6, 2005, at 15:03:38
In reply to Effexor: The agony and the ecstacy, posted by bigcat on December 5, 2005, at 15:46:54
Dear M
> I've never had a gradual improvement while on a med, it's just been so fast in for a brief period and then out with a crash.
But have you waited long enough to find out whether a gradual improvement would occur? You need to stay on a constant dose for a while - give your body time to stabilise :-)
>I thought this was the one.
It might be! You need to give it a fair trial - at least 6 weeks.
>I'll stay on the Effexor for now and hope it may start doing something again after being in my system longer, but I'm doubtful this will happen.
I have hope for you Matt. All is not lost. Be at peace. I am here for you.
Love
Ed
This is the end of the thread.
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