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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by Declan on July 31, 2005, at 23:18:54
In reply to Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by barosky on July 31, 2005, at 22:57:29
Yeah too right. Couldn't agree more.
declan
Posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 23:26:03
In reply to Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by barosky on July 31, 2005, at 22:57:29
I TOTALLY agree with you. I have a friend who has taken both SSRI's and done a lot of illegal things like weed etc.
He said that coming off weed was hard, but afterwards he was OK he could think straight etc, but coming off paxil he says it was so devastating that he cannot even add two numbers together.
I have had to go back on an SSRI, I made it 4 months but it is impossable! I was still getting brain zaps after 4 months!, it is devastating alright.
All I have to say is that is is an unrecognized epidemic. In my mind it is worse than the amphetamine crisis after WWII. Doctors don't know what they have on their hands.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 23:30:05
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 23:26:03
I seriously think that if I could have curbed my anxiety with a puff of weed a day, and retained more of my faculties.
Linkadge
Posted by alexandra_k on August 1, 2005, at 1:15:29
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 23:30:05
I use mj instead of physically addictive (though legal) substances for sleep and emergency emotion regulation.
Works better for me than any of that other junk and has much less undesirable side affects.
And yeah...
It pisses me off that its still a criminal offence
grr
Posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 1:48:54
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by alexandra_k on August 1, 2005, at 1:15:29
I don't know the legal status of it in Canada. I know it was decriminalized for a certain period of time.
Linkadge
Posted by med_empowered on August 1, 2005, at 2:27:50
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 1:48:54
hey! I'm considering going back to doing recreational drugs (I did in high school and part of college; I'm 21 now and haven't done anything in a while) b/c prescription "medicines" seem to be less effective, more expensive, and cause more problems than illicit "drugs". Pot was OK for me--sometimes it made me anxious while smoking, but the great thing was the STRONG mellowing, anti-depressant and yet, strangely energizing effect I get when I smoke pot now and then. I go from sleeping all day and doing nothing to finally reading again, going out again, that kind of thing. NOTHING rx'd has done that for me--not stimulants, benzos, antipsychotics, or antidepresants. Even better are 'shrooms...small amounts are soooo relaxing, and they really help to bring me out of a "funk" (for me though, I think a "funk" would qualify as a full-blown depressive episode.) I thought about it today, actually...I could spend over $100/month on my co-pay for drugs that don't really help, but do cause considerable problems, or I could spend the same amount (or less, I don't get stoned daily or anything) for something that would have some real use for me AND would be fun. And yet...its illegal. When I really think about it, it makes SENSE that pot, 'shrooms, and things like that are illegal: who is going to make money off of it? You can't patent and sell plant-based meds, at least not in the US. You CAN,however, patent and sell ridiculously expensive and inexpensive crap all you want. Look at the "hard drugs" we have...coke, meth, speed, etc. They were ALL pharmaceuticals once. When there was money to be made off them, drug companies and doctors pushed them like crazy; now that there are newer (supposedly "better," but mostly just MORE EXPENSIVE) meds to push for the same conditions, the drug companies and the government are all about keeping them underground. And when daring shrinks do try research with "hard" drugs--like LSD therapy in the 50s and 60s--they get scorned by their peers and the research is ignored. It makes sense; if severely disturbed patients can recover enough from one or two LSD-sessions that they are able to enjoy life and become productive citizens, they won't need shrinks anymore. And they won't need meds, either. Sorry to ramble, but this issue bothers me so much...it also bothers me that so many psychiatric "treatments" really seem to *SUBTRACT* from the personality--patients become less spontaneous, less intense, less *human*, really.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 1, 2005, at 4:03:08
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by med_empowered on August 1, 2005, at 2:27:50
LOL!
I hear you.
Though I think there were a few more problems with O'Leary than the fact that he was pro-LSD. They had quite a cult following going on there...But yeah. Same saga with alternative meds. They don't do the studies because the drug companies fund the studies. And the drug companies aren't going to fund the studies when they aren't going to make mega-bucks selling the product. And they don't show the FDA all their findings either.
Unbelievable.
Really.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 1, 2005, at 4:09:37
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief?? » med_empowered, posted by alexandra_k on August 1, 2005, at 4:03:08
Leary not O'Leary, sorry.
Check out the LSD link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD
From there you can get to an entry on Leary...
Posted by willyee on August 1, 2005, at 5:04:26
In reply to Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by barosky on July 31, 2005, at 22:57:29
Lol i hear that,it kills me that i walk on EGG SHELLS and live on the edge of a roof with all the stuff LEGAL medications i take and still battle everyday meanwhile ......
My brother gulps down his beers nightly,crack crack is all u hear of the cans opening every hr,and he sleeps like a log,wakes jolly,and doesent have a hint of anxiety.
Thanks dr.parker for introducing me to effexor,you were right,after two weeks i was going to be a changed man,id rather going back to being a normal teen.
Posted by Bill LL on August 1, 2005, at 9:45:21
In reply to Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by barosky on July 31, 2005, at 22:57:29
This topic is so complicated. I used to smoke a lot of mj years a go for a period of a few years. When I was high I felt more relaxed, but I couldn't necessarily drive a car safely or go to a job in that condition. So it was ok for night time but not during the day. I need 24 hour coverage for my anxiety and moods.
> People who use mind altering drugs for recreational purposes and exhibit very few if any adverse side effects in the long term. I used a very unpleasant drug perscribed by a doctor for depression only to have long lasting permanent problems while the pot smokers, binge drinkers I know are as sharp as they ever were. So much for that D.A.R.E crap, weed doesen't do anything to you face it, focus on where the damage IS BEING DONE.
>
> I've concluded that smoking some weed once in a while for therapuetic purposes would have left me more stable then that poison pink pill I ingested every day as an ignorant teenager.
>
> I've always stayed away from illicit drugs due to what they told me. I'd see my friends smoking up and would always think, didn't they listen anything those programs taught them, there going to be brain dead soon enough, but all that propaganda turned out to be wrong.
>
> I never thought a drug perscribed to a doctor would hurt me this much, now I am afraid to try ANYTHING, alochol, ciggerates, anything that alters your mind.
>
> I would have been better off doing illicit drugs rather then paxil, lets say I tried the recreational path and became unstable because of it , at least I didn't feel like an emotionless zombie and got some joy out of it.
>
> I just love how this stuff works out, the drugs that are suppose to be beneficial seem to corrupt one more then the illegal drugs..Just shows how much leverage the big companys like GSK have I guess..
Posted by 4WD on August 1, 2005, at 13:14:27
In reply to Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by barosky on July 31, 2005, at 22:57:29
> People who use mind altering drugs for recreational purposes and exhibit very few if any adverse side effects in the long term. I used a very unpleasant drug perscribed by a doctor for depression only to have long lasting permanent problems while the pot smokers, binge drinkers I know are as sharp as they ever were. So much for that D.A.R.E crap, weed doesen't do anything to you face it, focus on where the damage IS BEING DONE.
>
> I've concluded that smoking some weed once in a while for therapuetic purposes would have left me more stable then that poison pink pill I ingested every day as an ignorant teenager.
>
> I've always stayed away from illicit drugs due to what they told me. I'd see my friends smoking up and would always think, didn't they listen anything those programs taught them, there going to be brain dead soon enough, but all that propaganda turned out to be wrong.
>
> I never thought a drug perscribed to a doctor would hurt me this much, now I am afraid to try ANYTHING, alochol, ciggerates, anything that alters your mind.
>
> I would have been better off doing illicit drugs rather then paxil, lets say I tried the recreational path and became unstable because of it , at least I didn't feel like an emotionless zombie and got some joy out of it.
>
> I just love how this stuff works out, the drugs that are suppose to be beneficial seem to corrupt one more then the illegal drugs..Just shows how much leverage the big companys like GSK have I guess..Just my two cents worth but recreational drug use is a large part of what got me where I am (depressed). Some of us definitely had consequences. I took prescription pain pills recreationally off and on for years. By the the last couple of years it was increasing my depression horribly. Prescription diet pills 30 years ago also caused a slide into depression.
So maybe some people can use without consequences. Not everybody though. You might have been worse off with the illicit drugs.
Marsha
Posted by john berk on August 1, 2005, at 13:34:40
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by 4WD on August 1, 2005, at 13:14:27
hi!!
drinking alcohol was the best thing i have ever
tried that took away my ocd symptoms, and for the most part left my sexuality intact!! i used to drink almost every night, and still work full-time and was a runner!!
but alcoholism runs in my family, and it unfortunatly caught up with me. now i am on prozac, ocd is still bad, and i feel so much less motivated, it is incredible!! i long for those days when a six-pack was all i needed to make my world a happy place!! alcohol worked 3x better than any ssri, it's a shame drug company's can't come up with a drug as effective as a six-pack, lol!! >sigh< !! peace...john berk
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on August 1, 2005, at 15:06:04
In reply to Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by barosky on July 31, 2005, at 22:57:29
The other thing that makes me really mad is that so many people (especially in the 18-25 age group) are actually more accepting of using illegal substances than using what a doc has rx'ed for you. Some of the biggest pot users I know are completely judgemental about people who take psychotropics. Do they think we would want to take this stuff if we weren't suffering?
EE
Posted by john berk on August 1, 2005, at 16:23:10
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by Emily Elizabeth on August 1, 2005, at 15:06:04
Hi,
i completly agree with you, most young people are judgemental when it comes to drug use, and prescribed meds, i actually had a friend who couldn't beleive i took medication, and actually had the audacity to tell me i drank too much coffee in work, all the time while he was tokin' on a joint at break, a habit he beleived, [and you always here this unfounded, illogical argument, that "weed" is from nature, so god wanted us to enjoy it!!] my post about drinking beer was somewhat tongue in cheek,[but true] and my gripe is that the drug companies can not find something more effective and side-effect free, than the beer i used to self-medicate at the time.
i don't condone that for most people, and i totally understand how you feel, this part of life seems totally unfair!! i wish you much luck in the future...john [btw, emily is a very beautiful name, my neice is emily rose!!]
Posted by med_empowered on August 1, 2005, at 16:57:08
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief?? » Emily Elizabeth, posted by john berk on August 1, 2005, at 16:23:10
hey! OK, calling illicit drug users "junkies" is a little harsh, but I did it for a reason--I'm *sick* of these self-righteous stoners and cokeheads telling me what I "really need" or what "my real problem is". Psychiatric meds have some *serious* failings, but I think part of the problem is that shrinks and judgemental junkies kind of take similar attitudes towards people--that they know what's wrong with or without actually listening, and that their preferred method of handling problems is THE way to go about it. Its absolutely ridiculous. I personally see ALL drugs are pretty much the same--chemicls taken to alter (hopefully positively) one's current mental state-- and I think that kind of view cuts through the BS of both psychiatry ("Prozac corrects a chemical imbalance in the brain..."--right, I have a Prozac deficiency) and amongst some illicit drug users ("pot is from nature, so its good, always good, and RX drugs are bad and for the weak, blah blah blah"). I think one's "drug(s) of choice" would best be based on circumstances and individual factors. For exmaple, for me pot can make anxiety worse if I'm having a problem already, so I'd opt for a Klonopin or Tranxene instead of puffing on a joint. On the other hand, anti-depressants havent really done the trick for me, so I may end up smoking now and then and perhaps taking shrooms rarely, whereas other people might be better served by Cymbalta or something. I don't think we have to view this as an either/or distinction; that distinction is one that has been artifically created by the (expensive, unsuccessful, racist) "War on Drugs" (AKA: "War on Minorities," "War on Civil Liberties").
Posted by ed_uk on August 1, 2005, at 17:08:29
In reply to judgemental junkies, posted by med_empowered on August 1, 2005, at 16:57:08
GO MED_EMPOWERED!!
~Ed
Posted by john berk on August 1, 2005, at 17:15:54
In reply to judgemental junkies, posted by med_empowered on August 1, 2005, at 16:57:08
in total agreement here, there doesn't seem to be a "middle" ground, and the pysch docs and "judgemental junkies are one and the same at times!! i think you are right,med_empowered, it all depends on the person and the circumstances!!
klonopin works wonders for me, prozac doesn't, or i should say hasn't done anything lately for my depression, when in the past, drinking was like a miracle solution!! my brother smokes pot twice a week, just to help him mellow out from his ocd, and i don't blame him a bit. he tryed effexor and actually had auditory hallucinations trying to discontinue 75 mgs., the highest he could tolerate!! i have read that a dopamine enhancing drug is now banned in europe, because the u.s. thought it a tad too good for people, it helped depression, and enhanced sexuality, so we are all being duped to some extent, only certain drugs are "good" for us, if we know what's good for us, i suppose. in actuality, if my ocd or depression became too devasting, i would try all means to alleviate my "pain" including drugs not sanctioned by our government!! but i will continue to try with traditional means for now, i.e. [exercise, diet and therapy, hmmm..and prozac or possibly a tca, until this becomes too hard to handle!! you made a great point, peace...john
Posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 17:54:42
In reply to Re: judgemental junkies » med_empowered, posted by john berk on August 1, 2005, at 17:15:54
The problem is that there are a lot of people who use psychiatric meds who don't really need them.
As such, I think it is becoming belief that people who use psychiatric meds aren't really sick at all, but just trying to get a legal high.
Since it is prescribed so liberally, the validity of a real psychiatric problem is completely trashed.
Everybody has problems, and most people get over it through some method. What bothers me is when people try to extend their method to everybody else.
Those are sometimes the most dangerous people. The ones who have had a psychatric problems and who have got better on their own. They think that "if they can do it, everybody can".
Its almost like it is the next step in the sence of personal control. Once you think you have your problems under controll then you start to think you can solve everyone else's problems.
Linkadge
Posted by willyee on August 1, 2005, at 20:59:27
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by Emily Elizabeth on August 1, 2005, at 15:06:04
> The other thing that makes me really mad is that so many people (especially in the 18-25 age group) are actually more accepting of using illegal substances than using what a doc has rx'ed for you. Some of the biggest pot users I know are completely judgemental about people who take psychotropics. Do they think we would want to take this stuff if we weren't suffering?
>
> EE
Can we any longer blame people for wanting to stick with the nightly joint over a prescribed medication......i think thats just it,we dont see its not medication,its still DRUGS,just more controlled and subtle in its onset and action.A medication in my view is desgined to attactk a KNOWN problem,and actualy treat or fix the problem,in our case our problems are only theory,and not only is the action of the medication theory,but how well its works is the same.
They cant not say for sure these medications are treating us.
My view is i will never knock someone for whatever they use,IF it truly helps them,meaning helps them therputicaly.
I think its absurd for me to be critical of a illicit drug user using it to treat a condition and think any better of myself simply because mines is prescribed.
Vice versa as well,for example im not a fan at all of ssris,but if someone told me it is helping them i would not unload a bunch of negativity on them,instead id think they were very lucky to find something that helps period.So if that beer at night helps,or that small joint,and u are truly stable,rock on!
Posted by Kon on August 1, 2005, at 22:06:29
In reply to Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by barosky on July 31, 2005, at 22:57:29
I guess my experience is different. The few people/friends that I know that have use mind altering drugs (alcohol, pot, narcotics, etc.) for recreational purposes for many years are either dead, vegetables or in pretty bad circumstance (psychological, financial or otherwise).
Posted by alexandra_k on August 2, 2005, at 0:16:29
In reply to Re: Do you know what pisses me off beyond belief??, posted by Kon on August 1, 2005, at 22:06:29
I guess that just like how you have to experiment with prescription drugs to find out what (if anything) is beneficial for you you would need to experiment with non-prescription drugs to find out what (if anything) is beneficial for you.
Because different people can respond quite differently to the same drug.
Posted by barosky on August 2, 2005, at 1:49:48
In reply to Re: judgemental junkies, posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 17:54:42
> The problem is that there are a lot of people who use psychiatric meds who don't really need them.
>
> As such, I think it is becoming belief that people who use psychiatric meds aren't really sick at all, but just trying to get a legal high.
>
> Since it is prescribed so liberally, the validity of a real psychiatric problem is completely trashed.
>
> Everybody has problems, and most people get over it through some method. What bothers me is when people try to extend their method to everybody else.
>
> Those are sometimes the most dangerous people. The ones who have had a psychatric problems and who have got better on their own. They think that "if they can do it, everybody can".
>
> Its almost like it is the next step in the sence of personal control. Once you think you have your problems under controll then you start to think you can solve everyone else's problems.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
I agree, I think meds should be a last resort, meds lead to many people on a darker path and it's sad because the medication treatment in most cases wasn't all that necessary.
Posted by gabbii on August 2, 2005, at 17:10:12
In reply to Re: judgemental junkies, posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 17:54:42
> The problem is that there are a lot of people who use psychiatric meds who don't really need them.
>
How are you able to decide who needs them and who does not? How did you come to the conclusion that "lots of people" who use psychiatric meds don't really need them?
Posted by gabbii on August 2, 2005, at 17:11:05
In reply to judgemental junkies, posted by med_empowered on August 1, 2005, at 16:57:08
Posted by Glydin on August 2, 2005, at 20:00:07
In reply to Re: judgemental junkies, posted by gabbii on August 2, 2005, at 17:10:12
Very true!!
I think we have to be very, very careful when we start judging some else's mental health. I believe most mental wellness or unwellness is a subjective finding based on thoughts and feelings.... for most folks. Yes, there are tools in place to assess some disorders and have some objective findings - maybe they are valid, maybe they are not.
I also think in terms of folks using illicit or RXed meds, there's a reason for that and I generally think there's a mental - emotional concern that is being addressed.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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