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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 16:41:36
I am feeling seriously depressed. It has grown after a series of panic attacks for which I seem to have no controll over.
The doctor has only prescribed clomipramine and ritalin. I am too scared to take either.
I think TCA's seriosly make me psychotic. I enter a world I don't recognize and it scares the hell out of me.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 16:42:32
In reply to Should I do this ?, posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 16:41:36
Sorry the question was, should I take other medications that I have left over that I think might work better, and then worry about how to get them later ?
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on July 30, 2005, at 16:52:36
In reply to Re: Should I do this ?, posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 16:42:32
What do you think would work better?
~Ed
Posted by 4WD on July 30, 2005, at 17:30:11
In reply to Should I do this ?, posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 16:41:36
> I am feeling seriously depressed. It has grown after a series of panic attacks for which I seem to have no controll over.
>
> The doctor has only prescribed clomipramine and ritalin. I am too scared to take either.
>
> I think TCA's seriosly make me psychotic. I enter a world I don't recognize and it scares the hell out of me.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>Linkadge,
If you know absolutely for sure the clomipramine makes you worse, I wouldn't take it. As for other meds, I don't know what you have available.
Marsha
Posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 17:35:21
In reply to Re: Should I do this ? » linkadge, posted by 4WD on July 30, 2005, at 17:30:11
I was thinking of going back to taking celexa and lithium.
The doctor has this way, that whenever I go to him and explain the problem as I see it, he finds a way of reworking the problem so that it is how he sees it.
It is embarrasing because I end up leaving the office agreeing with him, only to go home and say "wait" thats not it at all.
I am so confused and scared out of my mind.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 30, 2005, at 18:29:57
In reply to Re: Should I do this ?, posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 17:35:21
I'd do what you know will work and then call him and tell him what you're doing. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 19:06:25
In reply to Re: Should I do this ? » linkadge, posted by Phillipa on July 30, 2005, at 18:29:57
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on July 30, 2005, at 19:47:24
In reply to Alright, I'm doing it, posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 19:06:25
The Ritalin will always be useful sometime, you can take it when you want. Don't know anything about the others. But you're not going to take them *just* because they were Rxd for you, are you?
Declan
Posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 20:46:47
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by Declan on July 30, 2005, at 19:47:24
"But you're not going to take them *just* because they were Rxd for you, are you?"
I just read a study that showed ritalin was linked to significant chromosome dammage. How can I contiously take it now ?
The clomipramine does some very weird things to me. It is very scarry. I am very confused. It is like my mind is telling me so many different things at once.
Linkadge
Posted by tecknohed on July 30, 2005, at 22:06:44
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it » Declan, posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 20:46:47
What do you mean by psychotic exactly and which Tricyclics made you this way?
Have you tried Clomipramine before? From what I know of Clomipramine (including personal experience), it acts more like an SSRI than a typical tricyclic. It's often used for OCD and certain phobias, as well as depression. Most other Tricyclis have signicant (even soley) Noradrenalin effects.
Though if you're that worried then maybe you are indeed better off not taking it.
Posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 22:11:29
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it » linkadge, posted by tecknohed on July 30, 2005, at 22:06:44
I've take it before. THe problems include the feeling of entering another dimention. Not recognizing the world around me, everything I know looks different, feeling like god is angry at me, althought I don't know what for.
Linkadge
Posted by tecknohed on July 30, 2005, at 22:40:47
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 22:11:29
> I've take it before. THe problems include the feeling of entering another dimention. Not recognizing the world around me, everything I know looks different, feeling like god is angry at me, althought I don't know what for.
>
>
> LinkadgeAnd this only happens with Tricyclics? Perhaps it has something to do with the anti-histamine effect which (I think) many Tricyclics share. Histamine can play a large (and often overlooked) role in mental illness.
There's an interesting book called Mental Health & Illness by Patrick Holford & Carl Pfeiffer, which covers this topic. Although its mainly a book on nutrition, you may find it usefull.
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1870976126/drbobsvirte00-20
Nutrition and Mental Illness by Carl C. Pfeiffer, Ph.D., M.D. is a book I haven't read but may also be worth a look.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892812265/drbobsvirte00-20
They suggest that some cases of Schizophrenia actually have abnormally low levels of histamine.
I'm not actuall suggesting anything of course - it just got me thinking, thats all.
Posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 1:30:56
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by tecknohed on July 30, 2005, at 22:40:47
I had thought that too. I once took too much benydyl (3), and experienced similar symptoms. Generally I don't do well on noradrenic meds. Effexor, but not citalopram induced persistant feelings of panic, heart rate increase etc.
Personally, I don't know how norepinephrine reputake has efficacy in panic disorder.
Linkadge
Posted by tecknohed on July 31, 2005, at 3:04:24
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 1:30:56
> Personally, I don't know how norepinephrine reputake has efficacy in panic disorder.
>
>
> LinkadgeFunny you should say that. I actually found Lofepramine (a mainly Noradrenergic Tricyclic) benificial for Social Phobia and great for depression. Although it didn't help 'socially' so much, it cleared my head and increased mind-focus, 2 problems very common in SP (do you have SP too?). It kept me positive and gave me more energy. I had similar results with Reboxetine. Just a pitty my Dr wouldn't combine either with an SSRI.
Anyway, more to the point, how do you feel right now. Decided what you're gonna do yet?
Oops! Sorry if I've side-tracked too much. It's 8:55am here in UK and I aint slept yet.
Regards, Kev.
Posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 3:13:53
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by tecknohed on July 31, 2005, at 3:04:24
I think taking some lithium is a good idea for me. I don't know if I should combine it with celexa, clomipramine, zoloft.
Linkadge
Posted by tecknohed on July 31, 2005, at 3:32:17
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 3:13:53
> I think taking some lithium is a good idea for me. I don't know if I should combine it with celexa, clomipramine, zoloft.
>
> LinkadgeWell I hope it works! You sound confident it will. Have you used litium before? And if so , whats it like? Activating, sedating or niether?
I always been curious of it but have been told it can be difficult to tolerate.
Posted by barosky on July 31, 2005, at 4:07:11
In reply to Re: Should I do this ?, posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 17:35:21
> It is embarrasing because I end up leaving the
> office agreeing with him, only to go home and >say "wait" thats not it at all.
>
Posted by ed_uk on July 31, 2005, at 7:19:49
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by tecknohed on July 31, 2005, at 3:04:24
Hi Kev!
>I actually found Lofepramine (a mainly Noradrenergic Tricyclic) benificial for Social Phobia and great for depression.......
LOL, I knew you were from the UK the minute you mentioned lofepramine! It's only available in a few countries.
>Just a pitty my Dr wouldn't combine either with an SSRI.
I took lofepramine 210mg + citalopram 60mg for about 2-3 years with good results.
My doc was scared that lofep + cit would cause the serotonin syndrome so he wouldn't prescribe at first, he didn't realise that lofepramine was (predominantly) a noradrenergic drug. With a lot of persuasion, I eventually encouraged him to let me combine them (he's very conservative so it was difficult). The hospital pharmacy were a pain in the a*s and they wouldn't give me the medication. I went to a community pharmacy instead and they didn't question it.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on July 31, 2005, at 7:21:51
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 3:13:53
Hi Link,
Perhaps you should try taking a *micro-dose* of Celexa and see if it reduces any of your strange 'withdrawal symptoms'.
Break a tablet into tiny pieces.
~Ed
Posted by gromit on July 31, 2005, at 14:02:20
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it » Declan, posted by linkadge on July 30, 2005, at 20:46:47
> I just read a study that showed ritalin was linked to significant chromosome dammage. How can I contiously take it now ?
Can you provide a link to that study? Everything I've read says stimulants are some of the safest and most studied drugs around. I've been taking it almost 2 weeks and it is helping more than anything else I've tried except maybe weed. Now I'm a little worried about it...
Thanks,
Rick
Posted by tecknohed on July 31, 2005, at 17:53:07
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it » tecknohed, posted by ed_uk on July 31, 2005, at 7:19:49
> Hi Kev!
>
> >I actually found Lofepramine (a mainly Noradrenergic Tricyclic) benificial for Social Phobia and great for depression.......
>
> LOL, I knew you were from the UK the minute you mentioned lofepramine! It's only available in a few countries.
>
> >Just a pitty my Dr wouldn't combine either with an SSRI.
>
> I took lofepramine 210mg + citalopram 60mg for about 2-3 years with good results.
>
> My doc was scared that lofep + cit would cause the serotonin syndrome so he wouldn't prescribe at first, he didn't realise that lofepramine was (predominantly) a noradrenergic drug. With a lot of persuasion, I eventually encouraged him to let me combine them (he's very conservative so it was difficult). The hospital pharmacy were a pain in the a*s and they wouldn't give me the medication. I went to a community pharmacy instead and they didn't question it.
>
> Kind regards
>
> ~EdYeah it amazes me how doctors can hand out these pills 'willy-nilly' without knowing how they are supposed to work. How can they know which drug will treat your symtoms if they dont know how it effects brain chemistry?
And even if they avoid using the drugs they're not familiar with, that would just mean that a patient may miss out on the correct treatment. Same with many other types of medication I expect.
Cheers.
Posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 20:15:10
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it » linkadge, posted by gromit on July 31, 2005, at 14:02:20
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20433
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on July 31, 2005, at 23:38:53
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 20:15:10
Ritalin's not the sort of drug I'd want to take all the time or too much of, but it can be useful for this and that.
Declan
Posted by linkadge on August 1, 2005, at 0:21:23
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by Declan on July 31, 2005, at 23:38:53
Is tollerance your main reason for not wanting to take the drug continually ?
Linkadge
Posted by gromit on August 1, 2005, at 0:34:29
In reply to Re: Alright, I'm doing it, posted by linkadge on July 31, 2005, at 20:15:10
> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20433
It figures. After thinking about it I'm willing to accept a certain amount of risk to feel better now. What's worse, a possibly shorter lifespan feeling semi-normal, being more productive, or a longer life where you are disfunctional and feel like crap?
Thanks,
Rick
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