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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by haddsl on June 28, 2005, at 15:01:12
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by MtnMama on June 28, 2005, at 14:51:20
No, your not the only one. I am only 24 so, I don't think it is menopause, although I feel like it with the sweating. The sweating has gone down a lot for me, and I started using this stuff called Certain Dri, or something like that. You put it on like a deoderant at night and it helps to keep you from sweating as much. I used to cry at everything and now I don't, that is the extent of my emotion problems. The most annoying thing in my opinion is the jaw clenching and grinding in my sleep. I don't want to have to wear a mouth guard at night, but It is looking like that is the only option. Does anyone have ANY suggestions on the teeth grinding thing?
> Boy, I thought it was just me! Hot flashes, trouble sleeping, clenched teeth, fatigue, weight gain, lack of emotion (except anger, of course!). I haven't been able to cry for months, and have really tried hard. I want to get these emotions OUT of me, not pent up inside! I used to write poetry often. Now I can't tap into that part of me to make the words come out and make sense. The only thing that seems to work is "timeouts", and exercise. For me, it's working in the yard. It takes my mind off things and I do feel much better afterwards. Excess sweating is just something you learn to deal with. Wear looser clothing in the summer. Drink plenty of fluids. This seems to help with the headaches and the fatigue a bit. And know this medicine is not perfect. But for what it DOES help me with, I'm willing to suffer with the rest. I would like to have a really good crying session, though. Oh yeah, and forgetfulness sucks!
>
> One small note: all of the above symptoms are also symptoms for "peri", or "pre-", menopause. Think on that.
>
> This too shall pass,
>
> Mtn Mama
>
> > And how embarrassing are those hot flashes. I would be just walking down the hall at work and break out in a drench of sweat. Pretty embarrassing. That has stopped for me as well, and I am very much improved. I just have trouble sleeping a little, the jaw clenching (and grinding in my sleep), And a little restless sometimes. As in I will be sitting in my chair and my leg has to be moving, or something.
> >
>
>
Posted by TinMan on June 28, 2005, at 15:36:28
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by MtnMama on June 28, 2005, at 14:51:20
Yeah, I had the horrible night sweats - waking up drenched. It seems to be much better now, although I still sweat a lot.
I am trying the gum chewing to see if that helps with the clenching. Also, has anyone tried Botox shots to help with that?
Do SSRI's make us a "passionless" lot?
Definitely feeling a bit hollow inside,
TinMan
Posted by MtnMama on June 28, 2005, at 16:16:49
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by TinMan on June 28, 2005, at 15:36:28
That's the word. If there is one thing I miss, it's my passion for life. It's that part of me that's spontaneous and creative. I have to work at being creative now. The benefit with taking my meds is that I finish my projects now instead of leaving 10 different things half done. I have "follow through". But I do miss the passionate, spontaneous (manic?) side of me, it was what I loved most about myself and it's missing that what makes me want to stop these cold turkey sometimes. Ya know?
>
> Do SSRI's make us a "passionless" lot?
>
> Definitely feeling a bit hollow inside,
> TinMan
Posted by SandiDee on June 28, 2005, at 18:14:01
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by MtnMama on June 28, 2005, at 16:16:49
Hi everyone, I am new to this, so please bear with me. I have gone through alot of turmoil in my life over the last 3 years, and the past 4 months have been incredibly bad. I have always suffered with anxiety, but always "dealt with it", as expected. Today I finally broke at the dr's office. She decided to try me on effexor, starting at 37.5 mg for a week, then 75 mg. I am very worried about starting this med, I don't want to lose all emotion, I have stuff going on that I need to be emotional about, (recent death of a parent), I am 42 years old, so I guess I could be menopausal, but the dr. has not discussed this and there have been no symptoms of it. Any thoughts on what I should do? My plan is to start the effexor tomorrow.
Posted by MtnMama on June 28, 2005, at 18:34:28
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor » MtnMama, posted by SandiDee on June 28, 2005, at 18:14:01
Start your medication. If anything, Effexor has blown away the clouds in my mind so that I can think things out more clearly. I've had several traumas in my life as well, and I've just recently, since being on Effexor, had the patience and the wherewithall to work these situations through in my head without losing it or having an anxiety attack. It gives me the chance to <aaaahhhhh>, take a breath and work through it. For that, it's worth it all. I'm finally cleaning the skeletons out of the closet and approaching liberation. YAH! That's what it does for me, at least.
> Hi everyone, I am new to this, so please bear with me. I have gone through alot of turmoil in my life over the last 3 years, and the past 4 months have been incredibly bad. I have always suffered with anxiety, but always "dealt with it", as expected. Today I finally broke at the dr's office. She decided to try me on effexor, starting at 37.5 mg for a week, then 75 mg. I am very worried about starting this med, I don't want to lose all emotion, I have stuff going on that I need to be emotional about, (recent death of a parent), I am 42 years old, so I guess I could be menopausal, but the dr. has not discussed this and there have been no symptoms of it. Any thoughts on what I should do? My plan is to start the effexor tomorrow.
Posted by goldenslumbers on June 29, 2005, at 10:16:26
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor » SandiDee, posted by MtnMama on June 28, 2005, at 18:34:28
Here's something that may help:
When you start this medication there will be some side effects. Most are short in duration and intensity, plus they usually fade after 2 or 3 weeks as your body adjusts. Everyone is different so I can't tell you exactly what effects you will have. Don't fight them, roll with it, find the positive - especially if your anxiety is feeling better.
Keep your doctor informed of how you feel. You will still have good days and bad days but the bad days will not be as intense. Once you feel things are looking up and you feel better don't change a thing. Keep taking the same dose of medication at the same time each day.
Most treatments last 6 to 12 months. Hopefully you will start to feel better in 3 or 4 weeks and the rest of the time can be used for your body to heal and allow you to address some of the issues that cause your anxiety or depression.
This medication helps most people, especially those that give it time to work.
All the Best
Posted by shirtface on June 29, 2005, at 11:10:48
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by goldenslumbers on June 29, 2005, at 10:16:26
A friend of mine gave me four 75mg Effexor XR pills. I do not suffer from depression or anxiety. I took one a day for four days and by the third day I was no longer ejaculating prematurely and I was having the most powerful orgasms I had ever had. I didn't experience any other side effects besides some real intense yawning. Premature ejaculation is ruining my life and I desperately want more pills. Is there any danger here? If I get some should I go with the regular 35mg pills? Will that still stop me from climaxing to quickly? Would this miraculous side effect last or would I adjust? Is it even possible to buy these without a prescription? I'm desperate. My girlfriend is only going to stick around for so long and I've tried all the natural exercizes but these pills could just give me that edge. Has anyone else had similar side effects? Thanks for any replies.
Posted by TinMan on June 29, 2005, at 11:11:22
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor » MtnMama, posted by SandiDee on June 28, 2005, at 18:14:01
Yes, it could be perimenopausal and/or menopausal. Like all "female problems", this one is so UNDER researched, misunderstood and swept under the rug. WHY? This is such a hard, difficult time in a woman's life! Hormones are changing, going haywire and off the charts.
Post-partum depression is another area that is ignored. WHY?
Because females are viewed as "hysterical" and "emotional". It is all "controllable" by the female. Right?!?!?
I think a LOT of women who are in their mid to late 30's and 40's struggle with depression, anxiety, stress and the like. And I think a lot of it can be attributed to hormones fluctuating. What if men went through a "phase" in their lives where they lost their "potency"? Do you think that would be researched? Can you say VIAGRA?!?
OK, I will get off my soapbox now. So now, instead of giving "hysterical" women laudlum, they are given Effexor. The side effects: the jury is still out for me on whether taking Effexor is worth it. Paxil sure as hell didn't help me!!
> Hi everyone, I am new to this, so please bear with me. I have gone through alot of turmoil in my life over the last 3 years, and the past 4 months have been incredibly bad. I have always suffered with anxiety, but always "dealt with it", as expected. Today I finally broke at the dr's office. She decided to try me on effexor, starting at 37.5 mg for a week, then 75 mg. I am very worried about starting this med, I don't want to lose all emotion, I have stuff going on that I need to be emotional about, (recent death of a parent), I am 42 years old, so I guess I could be menopausal, but the dr. has not discussed this and there have been no symptoms of it. Any thoughts on what I should do? My plan is to start the effexor tomorrow.
Posted by haddsl on June 29, 2005, at 11:23:35
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by shirtface on June 29, 2005, at 11:10:48
I wouldn't take these pills for something they aren't supposed to fix. There are so many side effects and such that it most likely will be more harmful then helpful. If you think it is helping go to your doctor tell the doctor your experience and that you need a solution, and they can give you something that is made to fix your problem, without all these crazy side effects. Effexor and other medications like it are very hit and miss. Something that works good for some might make others start hearing voices and going nuts. So please be careful, taking meds that aren't prescribed to you. I would suggest going to your doctor.
> A friend of mine gave me four 75mg Effexor XR pills. I do not suffer from depression or anxiety. I took one a day for four days and by the third day I was no longer ejaculating prematurely and I was having the most powerful orgasms I had ever had. I didn't experience any other side effects besides some real intense yawning. Premature ejaculation is ruining my life and I desperately want more pills. Is there any danger here? If I get some should I go with the regular 35mg pills? Will that still stop me from climaxing to quickly? Would this miraculous side effect last or would I adjust? Is it even possible to buy these without a prescription? I'm desperate. My girlfriend is only going to stick around for so long and I've tried all the natural exercizes but these pills could just give me that edge. Has anyone else had similar side effects? Thanks for any replies.
Posted by ed_uk on June 29, 2005, at 11:36:50
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by shirtface on June 29, 2005, at 11:10:48
Hi,
>Premature ejaculation is ruining my life and I desperately want more pills. Is there any danger here?
Fluoxetine (Prozac) is probably a better treatment for PE because the withdrawal symptoms are generally much milder than Effexor. Generic fluoxetine is effective and much cheaper than brand name Prozac. Go to your doctor!
>Would this miraculous side effect last or would I adjust?
It normally lasts.
>Has anyone else had similar side effects?
Effexor and SSRIs like Prozac delay orgasm in most people.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on June 29, 2005, at 11:59:45
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by shirtface on June 29, 2005, at 11:10:48
PS. All the common SSRIs are effective for prem ejec: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Lexapro and Paxil. Personally, I would recommend generic fluoxetine (Prozac). Generic fluoxetine is much cheaper than Effexor, the side effects are probably a bit milder, the withdrawal symptoms are less severe and it's an older drug - we have more experience with it. Fluoxetine 20mg/day is usually sufficient - you'll need to take it for a few weeks before evaluating its effectiveness, it can sometimes take a few weeks to 'build up' to a therapeutic level in the body, unlike Effexor. The dose range for fluoxetine is 5-80mg a day. Most people start with 20mg/day - this is the average dose.
See research on SSRIs for prem ejac.........
Don't buy drugs without a prescription, fluoxetine might not be suitable for you. Please go to your doctor! Remember, all SSRIs can cause several unwanted side effects, some of these side effects don't appear straight away. All SSRIs can cause withdrawal symptoms when they are stopped. Effexor causes the worst withdrawal symptoms, followed closely by Paxil. Fluoxetine (Prozac) has the least severe withdrawal symptoms. Fluoxetine interacts with numerous other drugs - *don't* take it without checking whether it interacts with any other medication that you are taking. Also, please check that you don't have any contra-indications to the use of fluoxetine - check with your doctor.
Finally, SSRIs are not a cure for PE. Your PE is likely to return quite quickly if you stop the medication. You are likely to have to take it for a long time. Low libido is a common side effect of SSRIs in the long term. You might find that you don't want to have sex anymore, however good your orgasms are. Lack of motivation, drowsiness, insomnia and sweating are other common SSRI side effects ........which may persist for a long time.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by julish on June 29, 2005, at 12:09:41
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor » shirtface, posted by ed_uk on June 29, 2005, at 11:59:45
Hey all... so glad you are here! Day 3 on Effexor XR for me. I've been sooo tired--extremely fatigued--for months now. Finally occurred to me that it may be another round of depression.... Docs have also been asking me "are you depressed?"... I always said no. I thought it was my thyroid (I'm hypo)..but it was not. Anyways, finally started to recognize that it may be depression, and Doc. started me on effexor along with counseling.
My main concern is this darn fatigue! I shiver at the thought of the chance that this med might make it worse.... Although, I noticed that it can also do the opposite. Guess I'll just wait and see....
Anyone out there start this med having had extreme fatigue as a symptom of your depression?Thanks!
Posted by julish on June 29, 2005, at 12:10:27
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor » shirtface, posted by ed_uk on June 29, 2005, at 11:59:45
Hey all... so glad you are here! Day 3 on Effexor XR for me. I've been sooo tired--extremely fatigued--for months now. Finally occurred to me that it may be another round of depression.... Docs have also been asking me "are you depressed?"... I always said no. I thought it was my thyroid (I'm hypo)..but it was not. Anyways, finally started to recognize that it may be depression, and Doc. started me on effexor along with counseling.
My main concern is this darn fatigue! I shiver at the thought of the chance that this med might make it worse.... Although, I noticed that it can also do the opposite. Guess I'll just wait and see....
Anyone out there start this med having had extreme fatigue as a symptom of your depression?Thanks!
Posted by happyg on June 29, 2005, at 13:03:02
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by goldenslumbers on June 29, 2005, at 10:16:26
Hi every one ...
My boyfriend was on a doctor's visit last week and the doctor gave him effexor xr .. we have been having similar sympthoptns ..
he started him at the dosis of 37.5 mg for the first week and 75 mg for the second week ...
today is his 3rd day .. he says he doesn't feel any side effects .
well the thing is that i told him to give me some of his pills and he did.. I took my first one today and i anm really scared about what i am suppossed to feel ... i was having some anxiety problems and also some social disorder problems .. i just hope i feel better .. but if anyone could please help me and let me know if there are really bad side effects that i should be worried about . i will parreciate it so much..
also i was wondering ... am i suppossed to take the same dose as him ???
and for how long ?? until i feel better or is there a certain time frame i am supposed to take it for ??
thank you so much for all your comments ....
paito ...
Posted by haddsl on June 29, 2005, at 13:32:22
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by happyg on June 29, 2005, at 13:03:02
All you people need to stop taking pills that aren't prescribed to you, and go to your doctor!!! All of these types of pills are very hit and miss and what might help your boyfriend with no side effects could make you deathly ill. please go to your doctor for help and don't self medicate.
> Hi every one ...
> My boyfriend was on a doctor's visit last week and the doctor gave him effexor xr .. we have been having similar sympthoptns ..
> he started him at the dosis of 37.5 mg for the first week and 75 mg for the second week ...
> today is his 3rd day .. he says he doesn't feel any side effects .
> well the thing is that i told him to give me some of his pills and he did.. I took my first one today and i anm really scared about what i am suppossed to feel ... i was having some anxiety problems and also some social disorder problems .. i just hope i feel better .. but if anyone could please help me and let me know if there are really bad side effects that i should be worried about . i will parreciate it so much..
> also i was wondering ... am i suppossed to take the same dose as him ???
> and for how long ?? until i feel better or is there a certain time frame i am supposed to take it for ??
> thank you so much for all your comments ....
> paito ...
Posted by redjr on June 29, 2005, at 13:58:46
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by haddsl on June 29, 2005, at 13:32:22
While it may be a stretch that these drugs will have deadly conseqences, I wouldn't take them just because my boyfriend/girlfriend are taking them. They're not recreational drugs. See your doctor for specific anxiety/depression symptoms.
You may find, like I did, that the side affects of many SSRIs are worse than their intended medicinal purposes. Of course this varies from person to person, but none of the side affects are very pleasant. So, unless you need to be treated with these class of drugs, for specific symptoms, I wouldn't take them on a whim.
redjr...
Posted by TinMan on June 29, 2005, at 14:16:44
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by redjr on June 29, 2005, at 13:58:46
Well said!
> While it may be a stretch that these drugs will have deadly conseqences, I wouldn't take them just because my boyfriend/girlfriend are taking them. They're not recreational drugs. See your doctor for specific anxiety/depression symptoms.
>
> You may find, like I did, that the side affects of many SSRIs are worse than their intended medicinal purposes. Of course this varies from person to person, but none of the side affects are very pleasant. So, unless you need to be treated with these class of drugs, for specific symptoms, I wouldn't take them on a whim.
>
> redjr...
Posted by Jdresa on June 30, 2005, at 12:33:56
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by TinMan on June 29, 2005, at 14:16:44
Hi,
On my third week now. Im still at 75mg. I seem to have a lot of the pre listed side effects as well. The dry mouth has been awful espeacily being a smoker. The constant feeling of needing to urinate was deffinetly anoying. I even took meds for a bladder infection before I knew it was just a side effect. I also feel the constant twitch of my feet & legs. The two worst problems I've had though were the insomnia & and not being able to ejaculate at all. I want to feel better but I also want to sleep and be able to enjoy the sex. The insomnia was taken care of by the risperdal they perscribed me. That knocks me out cold. I have no dreams, no thoughts, no nothing now when I sleep. What I really want to know though is, if the problem with ejaculating subsides. This is perticulary difficult because My Wife and I are both on effexor. She is having similar problems but has a much better success rate than I have had. Also I wanted to know if anyone here is Bi-polar and taking this drug. From what I've read it doesn't seem like a good drug for that & that was what my wife was perscribed it for. Im lucky enough to just be irritated with everyone I don't know and not wanting any of them to interact with me. Depression and Anxiety are just so fun. No wait, not fun but certinatly make things interesting.
Posted by haddsl on June 30, 2005, at 12:40:16
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by Jdresa on June 30, 2005, at 12:33:56
Well, I am sorry I can't answer your questions, But I do know that I am that same way. Irritated with people I don't know and not wanting to interact with any of them, but also I don't like it when people I don't know touch me at all. Even an accidental brush up really bugs me, and freaks me out sometimes.
> Hi,
> On my third week now. Im still at 75mg. I seem to have a lot of the pre listed side effects as well. The dry mouth has been awful espeacily being a smoker. The constant feeling of needing to urinate was deffinetly anoying. I even took meds for a bladder infection before I knew it was just a side effect. I also feel the constant twitch of my feet & legs. The two worst problems I've had though were the insomnia & and not being able to ejaculate at all. I want to feel better but I also want to sleep and be able to enjoy the sex. The insomnia was taken care of by the risperdal they perscribed me. That knocks me out cold. I have no dreams, no thoughts, no nothing now when I sleep. What I really want to know though is, if the problem with ejaculating subsides. This is perticulary difficult because My Wife and I are both on effexor. She is having similar problems but has a much better success rate than I have had. Also I wanted to know if anyone here is Bi-polar and taking this drug. From what I've read it doesn't seem like a good drug for that & that was what my wife was perscribed it for. Im lucky enough to just be irritated with everyone I don't know and not wanting any of them to interact with me. Depression and Anxiety are just so fun. No wait, not fun but certinatly make things interesting.
Posted by TinMan on June 30, 2005, at 12:45:24
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by Jdresa on June 30, 2005, at 12:33:56
The sexual side effects that I have noticed on Effexor is that I don't think about it at all during the waking hours but I do have explicit sexual dreams. It is strange. I enjoy sex as much without problems there.
I don't have the nervous legs. I just clench so hard. The other side effects are lessening. I have gained weight, and would like to get it off.
I feel like my mind has slowed down and I can focus better on what is going on around me. I know this is a drug used for Adult ADD. It has certainly helped me.
Please let me know what y'all have done for the teeth clenching (besides night guards). Has anyone tried anti-seizure medication for that? Please let me have your feedback.
Still hollow,
The TinMan
Posted by haddsl on June 30, 2005, at 12:50:43
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by TinMan on June 30, 2005, at 12:45:24
I am also VERY interested in the help provided to teeth clenchers. My Boyfriend woke me up sevral times last night telling me I was grinding my teeth so hard he thought they would break. I never notice it but can feel the pain in my jaw in the morning. I would just get a mouth guard but my jaw hurts so bad I would rather just get rid of the problem all together. if anyone has ANY suggestions, I am up for anything!
> The sexual side effects that I have noticed on Effexor is that I don't think about it at all during the waking hours but I do have explicit sexual dreams. It is strange. I enjoy sex as much without problems there.
>
> I don't have the nervous legs. I just clench so hard. The other side effects are lessening. I have gained weight, and would like to get it off.
>
> I feel like my mind has slowed down and I can focus better on what is going on around me. I know this is a drug used for Adult ADD. It has certainly helped me.
>
> Please let me know what y'all have done for the teeth clenching (besides night guards). Has anyone tried anti-seizure medication for that? Please let me have your feedback.
>
> Still hollow,
> The TinMan
Posted by redjr on June 30, 2005, at 12:53:07
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by Jdresa on June 30, 2005, at 12:33:56
Jdresa,
Getting an orgasm while on Effexsor is challenging at best and impossible at worst. I know. That's the primary reason I went off the drug. I can't live without my good sex! I'm not sure if it will pass in time or not. Many of the side-affects do go away with time, but many remain as well. It's just hard to know if they will continue in your case without the passage of time. Try to stick it out for a few weeks if you can. But I know it's hard.
Another negative side-affect you mentioned is feeling the need to constantly urinate. This is related to a condition called Prostatitis. It's an enlargement of the prostate that puts pressure on the urethra - thus the symptoms you are experiencing. Most Urologists don't give much credance to this being a side affetc of the effexor, but it is clearly stated on the Effexor website. Once I got off Effexor it went away. Wonders never cease!
But the biggy for me was insomnia. I even went on Lunesta, but it could not compete with Effexor. Basically it didn't help. I am using it by itself now and it does help. Glad to hear you had something strong to knock you out. I still believe I have some sort of sleeping disorder, but at least I'm getting 6+ hours without interruption.
Hang in there if you can, and see if the side affects subside gradually.
Good luck,
redjr...
Posted by compguy on June 30, 2005, at 13:02:07
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by Jdresa on June 30, 2005, at 12:33:56
I have benn on effexor for three months and the ejaculate problem is still here. This drug only helps one or two days a week with my anxeity other in that I think it is useless. I am seeing my doc tomorrow and i am going to get off it good luck to you hope it helps you
Posted by jaamey76 on June 30, 2005, at 14:25:43
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by haddsl on June 30, 2005, at 12:50:43
>>I would just get a mouth guard but my jaw hurts so bad I would rather just get rid of the problem all together. if anyone has ANY suggestions, I am up for anything!
I have always had a problem with grinding, at one time it had gotten so bad that I had trouble eating due to soreness...my dentist suggested to me to take Robaxicet (muscle relaxant) for 1-2 weeks to give my mouth a break. It tends to make you drowsy during the day, so chew gum during the day and take Robaxicet at night, and you should find yourself, and your mouth, feeling better. You should be able to find it OTC at any pharmacy.
Hope this helps.
Posted by haddsl on June 30, 2005, at 14:50:11
In reply to Re: side effects to effexor, posted by jaamey76 on June 30, 2005, at 14:25:43
You can get the Robaxicet at any pharmacy, OTC in CA?
I was just talking to my boyfriend and he said that I was grinding my teeth in my sleep before starting the Effexor. So, I guess it has always been a problem. But Taking a muscle relaxer at night would be the best for me anyway as it seems I grind at night mostly. Cause if I can that would be best. I don't want to have to wear a mouth guard everynight... I just wouldn't remember or fall asleep first.
> >>I would just get a mouth guard but my jaw hurts so bad I would rather just get rid of the problem all together. if anyone has ANY suggestions, I am up for anything!
>
> I have always had a problem with grinding, at one time it had gotten so bad that I had trouble eating due to soreness...my dentist suggested to me to take Robaxicet (muscle relaxant) for 1-2 weeks to give my mouth a break. It tends to make you drowsy during the day, so chew gum during the day and take Robaxicet at night, and you should find yourself, and your mouth, feeling better. You should be able to find it OTC at any pharmacy.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
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