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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on June 26, 2005, at 9:31:58
Id like to make things easy so im gonna use a single thread.First i notice a fair amount of people doing bad who in some way r using lamictal.
Before anyone jumps,im not saying some r having much success with it....I AM HOWEVER gonna pass along this,lamictal was capable of destroying any and all benifits parnate had.I tried lamictal a while ago and it put me in a horrable state of depression,ocd behaivior and just pure dread,i got rid of that asap.
If u use it in a cocktail and r feeling bad,id consider talking to ur doc or whatever and seeing if u can try a different stablizer.In fact the OTC product taurine has actions somewhat similiar to lamictal,it stablizes nerve activity,do a google search on TAURINE and anxiety,alone its not very useful,but id use that in conjunction a million times more than i would lamictal.Taurine again has similiar properties,its a major inhinibtory amino,and has a good synergy with gaba meds.Read up on taurines chemistry.
Second i am doing much better these days,one reason is i swtiched from klonopin as needed with parnate to xanax,a half of a .25 pill with each parnate dose,as well as a vey low low dose of nuerontion mid day.I still have some areas its not touching,but if it can get me stable enough its fine with me.
When i visit my doc i want to inquire about SULPRIDE....heres a question i would TRULY TRULY appreciate an answer to....ixus mentioned success with sulpride and parnate.He along with other articles mentions the effect being dependent on dose amount.
At the dose he recomends,is he INCREASING dopamine for the added benifit,or is the med surpressing dopamine as intended.
Please i really need to know,is it lower doses of amurlpride that increase dopamine concentration,or higher.
Can someone please in lamon terms explain to me this meds action at a lower&higher dose.Thank u very much.
Posted by SLS on June 26, 2005, at 10:21:08
In reply to Comment 2 question..., posted by willyee on June 26, 2005, at 9:31:58
Yet, the combination of Parnate + Lamictal has produced robust therapeutic responses in many people. My doctor has had quite a bit of success with it.
I am guessing that a great combination for bipolar depression would be Parnate + Lamictal + lithium. I would be very curious to know whether this treatment would be more efficacious for bipolar I or bipolar II.
- Scott
Posted by Chairman_MAO on June 26, 2005, at 11:05:03
In reply to Re: Comment 2 question..., posted by SLS on June 26, 2005, at 10:21:08
If I am taking Nardil for both SP (more social anxiety, I think) and dysthymia, do you think adding lithium would allow me to lower the dose a little bit? I am worried about the SP not being helped (my depressive problem is dysthymia, btw). I've heard that people often have success with MAOI + low dose lithium. I even saw some posts where someone (I think ace) said that adding lithium allowed him to have orgasms on Nardil. Anything else you think I could augment with to bring the dose down a little? My Dr will not Rx , or else I would take clonazepam with a lower dose of Nardil.
Posted by willyee on June 26, 2005, at 11:36:51
In reply to Re: Comment 2 question..., posted by SLS on June 26, 2005, at 10:21:08
> Yet, the combination of Parnate + Lamictal has produced robust therapeutic responses in many people. My doctor has had quite a bit of success with it.
>
> I am guessing that a great combination for bipolar depression would be Parnate + Lamictal + lithium. I would be very curious to know whether this treatment would be more efficacious for bipolar I or bipolar II.
>
>
> - Scott
Yess i have seen along with complaints a lot of people doing well on it.I think it once again shows the difference in profiles,and how unique individuals symsptoms are.To just cause to show all the more reason more care needs to be taken by *some docs* who dont when prescribing meds,sometimes finding out what a person had success with in the past my assist with that.
I personaly responded badly to lamictal,very badly.
I respond fairly well to neurontion,i also responded ok to gabitril,as well as simple caffiene.
Lithuim along with lamictal set me very maniac.Its a very very hard scieance to find the right drugs to bring relieaf.
Oh and id be doing an injustice if i dident mention klonopin,which saved me many a times!
Posted by Declan on June 26, 2005, at 14:24:35
In reply to Comment 2 question..., posted by willyee on June 26, 2005, at 9:31:58
Willy, I think it's *lower* doses that increase available dopamine, with amisulpride 50-100mg/d is mentioned.
Declan
Posted by SLS on June 26, 2005, at 15:26:59
In reply to Re: Comment 2 question... » SLS, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 26, 2005, at 11:05:03
Hi CM.
> If I am taking Nardil for both SP (more social anxiety, I think) and dysthymia, do you think adding lithium would allow me to lower the dose a little bit? I am worried about the SP not being helped (my depressive problem is dysthymia, btw). I've heard that people often have success with MAOI + low dose lithium. I even saw some posts where someone (I think ace) said that adding lithium allowed him to have orgasms on Nardil. Anything else you think I could augment with to bring the dose down a little? My Dr will not Rx , or else I would take clonazepam with a lower dose of Nardil.
If it were depression that you were treating, I doubt there is anything you could take that would allow you to lower your dosage of Nardil (unless you do something to increase its bioavailability in target tissues). Even adding a TCA doesn't seem to change the therapeutic window of Nardil in my experience. I cannot, however, be so certain when Nardil is used to treat anxiety disorders. My guess is that both depression and anxiety disorders have overlapping etiologies, and would require similar dosages of Nardil to treat. It really would be a fascinating exercise to add the clonazepam and see if you could indeed reduce the dosage of Nardil.
By the way, the ability to achieve orgasm returns after 3 months or so with Nardil. Something to look forward to.
How has Nardil affected your dysthymia?
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 26, 2005, at 15:50:51
In reply to Re: Comment 2 question..., posted by willyee on June 26, 2005, at 11:36:51
I am not terribly surprised that Lamictal caused you to become manic. What I am surprised at is that lithium was a necessary catalyst to precipitate the mania. What were your blood levels at the time?
I wouldn't be so surprised that lithium didn't prevent a manic reaction to another drug. Lithium, at bipolar dosages, does very little to treat my mania once it is triggered. But it is quite an enigma that lithium should actually cause the mania. I guess its pro-serotonergic effects play a part in such a reaction.
I am glad you find Neurontin helpful. I believe the drug is currently overlooked by psychiatrists as a reaction to two facts. First, it does not seem to make for a good mood stabilizer as monotherapy. This might make some doctors to view the drug as worthless when it might actually have utility as an adjunct to other mood-stabilizers. Second, there might be some backlash to the media pronouncement any litigation accusing the drug manufacturer promoting it for off-label uses. It seems that the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. At first, it was handed out like candy. Now, it seems unusual that it be used as a mood-stabilizer or an adjunct to antidepressants. I believe that Neurontin is not just an expensive placebo. I hope more work is done to establish the spectrum of therapeutic properties that Neurontin actually possesses.
With Gabitril, did you experience any irritability?
What is your current diagnosis and what medications are you taking now? Are they helping?
Be well.
- Scott
Posted by willyee on June 26, 2005, at 16:06:14
In reply to Re: Comment 2 question... » willyee, posted by SLS on June 26, 2005, at 15:50:51
> I am not terribly surprised that Lamictal caused you to become manic. What I am surprised at is that lithium was a necessary catalyst to precipitate the mania. What were your blood levels at the time?
>
> I wouldn't be so surprised that lithium didn't prevent a manic reaction to another drug. Lithium, at bipolar dosages, does very little to treat my mania once it is triggered. But it is quite an enigma that lithium should actually cause the mania. I guess its pro-serotonergic effects play a part in such a reaction.
>
> I am glad you find Neurontin helpful. I believe the drug is currently overlooked by psychiatrists as a reaction to two facts. First, it does not seem to make for a good mood stabilizer as monotherapy. This might make some doctors to view the drug as worthless when it might actually have utility as an adjunct to other mood-stabilizers. Second, there might be some backlash to the media pronouncement any litigation accusing the drug manufacturer promoting it for off-label uses. It seems that the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. At first, it was handed out like candy. Now, it seems unusual that it be used as a mood-stabilizer or an adjunct to antidepressants. I believe that Neurontin is not just an expensive placebo. I hope more work is done to establish the spectrum of therapeutic properties that Neurontin actually possesses.
>
> With Gabitril, did you experience any irritability?
>
> What is your current diagnosis and what medications are you taking now? Are they helping?
>
> Be well.
>
>
> - Scott
Gabitril as a adjunct in VERY small doses worked fine,especialy when klonopin was in the mix,perhaps its providing acutal gaba for the benzo to work a lil more efficently.Now alone,gabaitril was a nightmare,literally i tried it alone and had awful nightmares,body termors,horrable depression,etc etc.
I remember reading gabitril simply provides the brain with gaba,not much more,where as most of the other stablizering gaba meds do much more,neurontion has effects i think it was on sodium channels,as well as NUMEROUS other effects,it doesent not simply add gaba to the brain.Neither does tegatrol,or even ghb for that matter,gabatril does and they stated it does little more.
So taking gabatril alone is usualy not done,stockpiling ur brain with gaba isnt the answer.
To answer ur question more,i had a good 2 week run with using it in very small doses with parnate.After time however i was noticing a lot of body tremor,i also wasnt getting the relief any longer,so to just get side effects and no benifit,i choose to end its run.But the relieaf it did provide at a point with parnate was great,the stimulate AD properties were enhanced,and then there was a very strong social ehnacment,and a decrease in ocd type thinking and behaviour.I remeber thinking i found the golden combo,if i had a nickel for every time i believed i found the ANSWER i ,well i could actualy pay my p doc bills!
Posted by KaraS on June 26, 2005, at 16:07:42
In reply to Comment 2 question..., posted by willyee on June 26, 2005, at 9:31:58
Amisulpride increases dopamine at lower dosages but decreases it at higher dosages. According to Scott's (SLS) drug chart:
It's an antidepressant in the 50-200 mg. range and an antipsychotic in the 400-1200 mg. range.
It's a similar situation with sulpiride.
AD = 50-200 mg.
AP = 400-2400 mg.
Posted by willyee on June 26, 2005, at 16:17:15
In reply to Re: Amisulpride » willyee, posted by KaraS on June 26, 2005, at 16:07:42
> Amisulpride increases dopamine at lower dosages but decreases it at higher dosages. According to Scott's (SLS) drug chart:
>
> It's an antidepressant in the 50-200 mg. range and an antipsychotic in the 400-1200 mg. range.
>
> It's a similar situation with sulpiride.
>
> AD = 50-200 mg.
> AP = 400-2400 mg.Thanks guys,i have carbegoline a recomendation chairman made,and i believe that would provide the same type of effect as sulpride.
Again thanks for the response!
This is the end of the thread.
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