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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 15:50:01
Hey!
I have been taking Adderall 30mg (4 a day) for the past two or three months and I cannot sleep at all. Only rarely. The time that I have used when I would normally have been sleeping, I have been incessently reading all kinds of books. I can't concentrate on television, so I read an insane amount. But , my point of this thread is that I ran across something that might make some of us feel like we don't actually have any problems at all, we are just more intelligent than everyone else, who terms themselves as "normal". The book I just finished is called: "Chaos: Making a new Science" by James Gleick. It deals with Chaos Theory, which was a bit hard for me to finish quickly, because you really need to have a very stong knowledge of Mathematics, Chemistry, Bilogy and Physics. The Biology I could follow,because that is my major in college, but the rest took some thinking to grasp. Anyway, I don't think it is classified as theory anymore because it is no longer such a new science since the book was published in 1987, what I am about to tell you, you can put some faith into.
For anyone who does not know, Chaos Theory is, simply put, the idea that there is chaos all around us with examples such as: the waves in a turbulent sea, fluctuations in wildlife populations, the way the water comes out of a dripping faucet, the way clouds form their different and ever-changing shapes and the way cigarette smoke rises and breaks into different patterns etc. I know you are wondering where I am going with this but just keep reading. The whole meaning behind all of this, is that the theory of chaos is defined as: Deep within the chaos which is all around us, have patterns deep within their complexities, and in essence, they have ORDER! This has already been scientifically proven as fact. The description in the book is better than mine, and it says: "order masquerading as randomness". As I read on, I found that later in the book they began speaking of the human mind and, that some people who have, what would be termed as mental disorders, are possibly just moving into a higher level of awareness, that the average human mind is not ready to expereince. The complexities of the supposed "disordered" human mind, as their systems become sufficiently complex, they develop new forms of behavior called emergent phenomena. As this happens, their minds transform into a new, higher level of organization, through what "normal" people might see as chaotic or in our cases sometimes "psychotic". So, if you can imagine, those of us who are termed as "mentally disturbed" in many ways are possibly just evolving at a faster rate than other people and are moving toward a higher and faster spiritual evolution. These scientist have determined that this is journey through chaos, is actually allowing thse special-minded people to experience a higher level of wisdom, awareness, and eventually lead us to attaining true peace, joy and harmony in our lives and the world around us. This can only happen if we stop seeing our minds as "problematic", and realize that we are just evolving at a higher rate than most other people. We are more enlightened. Who can really define what sanity is anyway? Who was allowed to make that assumption, as to the differences between normal and abnormal thoughts? So, what do you think about that? I would say that I am just crazy, because I have been up for about 4 days right now. But I just read it for my own eyes and something tells me that it might be absolute truth. We are just more advanced than others, that's all!
Sarah
Posted by iforgotmypassword on June 16, 2005, at 17:06:13
In reply to ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 15:50:01
but i'm just starting college at a last chance university at 21 years old. it's pretty sad. i was always told i was gifted and that i would find my way, but really i was just different, and in many more negative ways than positive. i guess what i'm trying to say is that while there are 'mentally ill' folk who are truly exceptionally gifted (my ex was), a lot of us are as this book *should* have classified, just failed concepts. i don't mean to jump on you though, i'm sorry please don't take it that way, but i have had this instinct from ever since i was little to believe that i was gifted. it's all that i was ever told, because *only* because i was a bit 'different'. on that basis alone we cannot be told to have such high hopes for ourselves, as i know i'm not the one who just completely fell apart when everything started to matter. and it's been a terrible crash. some of us are truly destined to be someone, and some of us are destined to be total failures. we truly need to learn to maintain a pragmatic viewpoint for those of us who need to accept ourselves.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on June 16, 2005, at 17:16:08
In reply to maybe *you* are more advanced..., posted by iforgotmypassword on June 16, 2005, at 17:06:13
i'm sorry that whole message sounded awful. i didn't mean for it to come across as so rude. please ignore it. thanx.
Posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 17:29:26
In reply to maybe *you* are more advanced..., posted by iforgotmypassword on June 16, 2005, at 17:06:13
I am very sorry that you are bothered, but from reading your message I cannot really determine what you are trying to say. It's just a bit vague. I am 28 and just finishing college, and I don't think it's sad at all. I think that you are exhibiting an extremely low self-esteem complex. It doesn't sound to me that you ever felt you were truly gifted, with the tone in your message. A person who has healthy self-esteem will percieve themselves as loving and capable, seeing outside events more objectively. The negative reactions of others usually have little to do with you at all. We can never truly open up to thers unless we first accept ourselves with love. Low self-esteem builds walls of defensiveness, keeping us from the peace we seek in life. Of course, remembering how gifted you knew you were, may take some time and work to build that acceptance within youself again. Just by being open and honest with how you feelon this forum, is a step towars the right direction again. Each moment of openess we allow ourselves to show, wears down those defensive walls. There is a fitting quote that I want to share with you. It reads...
"Measuring success by others words creates anxiety.
What you desire and what you fear are within yourself"
(Tao Te Ching13)> but i'm just starting college at a last chance university at 21 years old. it's pretty sad. i was always told i was gifted and that i would find my way, but really i was just different, and in many more negative ways than positive. i guess what i'm trying to say is that while there are 'mentally ill' folk who are truly exceptionally gifted (my ex was), a lot of us are as this book *should* have classified, just failed concepts. i don't mean to jump on you though, i'm sorry please don't take it that way, but i have had this instinct from ever since i was little to believe that i was gifted. it's all that i was ever told, because *only* because i was a bit 'different'. on that basis alone we cannot be told to have such high hopes for ourselves, as i know i'm not the one who just completely fell apart when everything started to matter. and it's been a terrible crash. some of us are truly destined to be someone, and some of us are destined to be total failures. we truly need to learn to maintain a pragmatic viewpoint for those of us who need to accept ourselves.
Posted by xbunny on June 16, 2005, at 17:38:11
In reply to ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 15:50:01
Most chaotic systems are just chaos theres nothing interesting about them. A chaotic system needs just the right rules and the right parameters and beautiful things will emerge otherwise the results are dissapointing. Psychosis could be thought of as a chaotic system but its just a mess unless something emerges from it ie perhaps genius and for that to happen the chaos must be special, it must have just the right rules and parameters like other chaotic systems. I would say very little of psychosis is likely to acheive this. Buns
Posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 17:43:51
In reply to Re: ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by xbunny on June 16, 2005, at 17:38:11
I would say that some of the most famous minds in Mathematics, Physics, Biology, Chemistry and Phisiology might just differ with you on that little assumption of yours. These people in this spend spent their whole lives dedicated to the pursit of CHaos Theory, and they were able to do it. So what great knowledge do you posess that says that were wrong other than your ignorance because you haven't even taught yourself about what you are already dismissing. I know you haven't taught yourself anything about it, because the statements you made were ridiculously wrong. Educate yourself before you try to speak so wisely on a subject next time.
> Most chaotic systems are just chaos theres nothing interesting about them. A chaotic system needs just the right rules and the right parameters and beautiful things will emerge otherwise the results are dissapointing. Psychosis could be thought of as a chaotic system but its just a mess unless something emerges from it ie perhaps genius and for that to happen the chaos must be special, it must have just the right rules and parameters like other chaotic systems. I would say very little of psychosis is likely to acheive this. Buns
Posted by xbunny on June 16, 2005, at 18:08:42
In reply to Re: ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 17:43:51
> I would say that some of the most famous minds in Mathematics, Physics, Biology, Chemistry and Phisiology might just differ with you on that little assumption of yours. These people in this spend spent their whole lives dedicated to the pursit of CHaos Theory, and they were able to do it.
The fact that they have had to dedicate their entire lives to the pursuit of chaos theory is proof enough that finding successful chaos is so difficult.
> So what great knowledge do you posess that says that were wrong other than your ignorance because you haven't even taught yourself about what you are already dismissing.Im not dismissing chaos theory. Im trying to explain to you that you have misunderstood it somewhat.
> I know you haven't taught yourself anything about it, because the statements you made were ridiculously wrong. Educate yourself before you try to speak so wisely on a subject next time.
Do you really beleive that every chaotic system is meaningful and productive? Lets do an example. The Game of Life, you have a cellular grid of cells each cell spawns a state depending on the value of its neighbours. If you set the right rules and set the grid with the correct cells initially on then when you run the simulation you get all kinds of interesting forms emerging. However most of the time you will find that you get either nonsense or the simulation forming a bland equillibrium.
All chaotic systems are like this. Thats why people spend so much time researching them to find the ones which are interesting and when new ones are discovered its so exciting.Buns
Posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 18:23:51
In reply to Re: ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by xbunny on June 16, 2005, at 18:08:42
Actually if you would educate yourself before speaking you would sound so much more intelligent. This exact study you speak of has been done and proven in 1974. Also, when someone loves their work and finds it interesting enough, such as chaos theory, they don't spend their lives proving it exists, we already know it exists! They spend their lives finding different patterns in chaos within every thing that we know in this world. That can be very exciting and fulfilling when it becomes something you love. I really wish you would go read something about the history, the discovery and the excitement of finding it everywhere we look. Yes, there are patters in every form of chaos. If you would actually take the time to educate yourself before you end up sounding so ignorant due to you absolute lack of knowledge on the subject, you might actually learn something. Considering how ignorant you are to learn of something before you speak about it though, I would think it might be a bit over your head. I am sorry for people like you who will never grow spiritually, educationally, or emotionally, because you are obviously a very close minded person who makes their own views from no evidence other that what you think should be right. You are ridiculous!
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 16, 2005, at 23:25:28
In reply to Re: ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 17:43:51
> you haven't even taught yourself about what you are already dismissing. I know you haven't taught yourself anything about it, because the statements you made were ridiculously wrong.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by xbunny on June 17, 2005, at 5:01:28
In reply to Re: ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 18:23:51
> I would think it might be a bit over your head.
No you are over your head. You have learnt about chaos and realized that there are patterns in chaotic systems. For you this is some great spiritual, education and emotional leap forward. If someone suggests to you that they think most chaotic system are not as amazing as you think, then you insult them. Buns
Posted by linkadge on June 17, 2005, at 6:41:08
In reply to Re: ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by xbunny on June 17, 2005, at 5:01:28
I have thought this way, but I think it is really a self serving bias to try and negate the negativity of the mood disorder.
We all want to try and attribute our suffering to something. I don't think people with mental illnesses are any more advanced than the general population. I'd almost think the opposite based on the fact that if we were so smart, then we'd find a more active coping mechanism to avoid so much pain.
Linkadge
Posted by Nickengland on June 17, 2005, at 7:47:27
In reply to ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 15:50:01
Hi Sarah :-)
Quite interesting what you say about Chaos Theory with regards to mental health...
I Have read you're previous posts about your psychiatrist and the dangerous list of medications he has you on too..I must say that seems pretty chaotic in its self!
On your first post you said "I need help very badly" May I say, I very much agreement with that statement.
There appears to be alot of "chaos" in your mental health right now, and the "theory" in regards to psychiatry and how you are explaining what is going on is most definately a drug induced manic episode or simply a manic episode.
Symptoms such as not sleeping at all, the spritual enlightenment, the quest for information from a large number of books and last but not least the suggestion that perhaps we dont have any problems but are more advanced and intelligent.. This is classic manic symtoms, and with this dangerous coctail of meds and dosage your psychiatrist has you on..these meds can only be fueling these mania symtoms...
The anger and frustrations in you're post to xbunny....It was like someone couldn't understand your "higher intelligence level" (mania) and so quite obviously as you said this person must be more or less verbally attacked in every way possible.i.e...uneducated, cannot grow emotionally or spritually, etc
Again that is very typical of someone in a manic state...and I know because when I read that I couldn't believe how much that reminded me of myself when my mood has been manic like before. I'm bipolar.
It must be a very difficult time you're going through right now and I really feel for you. The worst part is that its highly likely your doctor is actually making you "sick" instead of "better"
Complex problems can sometimes have simple answers, like simple problems can sometimes have complex answers...Perhaps in your case you have alot of complex problems going on right now.....but a simple answer is to change your doctor and so get the help, you said yourself, you need so badly..
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by rainbowbrite on June 17, 2005, at 18:43:38
In reply to ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 15:50:01
Posted by ed_uk on June 17, 2005, at 20:10:42
In reply to Re: ANYONE WITH MENTAL CONFUSIONS!, posted by Sarah28 on June 16, 2005, at 18:23:51
Hi Sarah,
>You are ridiculous!
Now Sarah.....be nice to my good friend bunny won't you?
~Ed
Posted by 4WD on June 17, 2005, at 22:19:25
In reply to xbunny » Sarah28, posted by ed_uk on June 17, 2005, at 20:10:42
Sarah,
I think you need to get to a doctor, a different doctor and tell him/her exactly what and how much you have been taking. I am afraid for your safety and your mental health. I spent a lot of time in college taking stimulants and not sleeping and I ended up in a serious mess. Please don't let this happen to you any more that it already has. I think many of us on this board are worried about you.
Marsha
This is the end of the thread.
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