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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Interested on April 7, 2005, at 8:06:17
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight?, posted by Vivi on April 6, 2005, at 21:12:12
What is adderall, and what is it usually prescribed for?
Posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 14:09:50
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Maxime, posted by Interested on April 6, 2005, at 21:09:18
> Thanks, Maxime. Coincidentally, I was just reading about Topomax on another thread, and I think I'm going to ask my neuro about it.
I think I just saw an article about it on Medscape. If I can find it I will post it to you, or if you have your babble-mail turned on I will send it to you that way.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 14:13:24
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Vivi, posted by Interested on April 7, 2005, at 8:06:17
> What is adderall, and what is it usually prescribed for?
Adderall is also a stimulant. Is is a mixture of "salts". In my opinion it is better than Dexedrine for it's intended use (ADD or Depression) because it didn't make me crash the way Dexedrine does.
But again, no doctor is going to prescribe to you so you can lose weight. And it would probably make your headaches worse.
I really think Topomax might be the answer because it will help with the weight lose and the migraines. :-)
Maxime
Posted by Vivi on April 7, 2005, at 18:01:30
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Interested, posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 14:13:24
Is adderall a short acting stimulant? My M.D. says the Dexedrine 15mg I am prescribed is long acting.
Posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 19:22:46
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight?, posted by Vivi on April 7, 2005, at 18:01:30
> Is adderall a short acting stimulant? My M.D. says the Dexedrine 15mg I am prescribed is long acting.
Adderall XR is long acting - 12 hours. There is also regular Adderall. I don't know how much Adderall you would need to be equivalent of the Dexedrine long acting, but I am sure your doctor can look it up somewhere.
Maxime
Posted by Vivi on April 7, 2005, at 19:28:55
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Vivi, posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 19:22:46
Thank-you. I get so confused with the XR and short acting. Do you know which is better. Right now I take 15 mg Dexedrine. my M.D. suggested Adderall because it works right away. It takes soem time with Dexedrine. Some days I will feel focused and task oriented and other days I don't
Posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 20:48:26
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Interested, posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 14:13:24
Interested, here is the article I was talking about.
Maxime
Anti-epileptic Reduces Migraines, WeightMedscape Medical News 2003. © 2003 Medscape
Larry Schuster
April 4, 2003 (Honolulu) — In the largest trials of prophylactic use of a drug for migraine prevention, the anti-epileptic topiramate (Topamax) reduced the number of monthly migraine episodes by nearly 50%, and — in contrast to other migraine drugs — caused up to 5% weight loss.
In two parallel, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies involving a total of about 1,000 patients, the results were nearly the same in both studies on all key measures. Both studies were released here at the American Academy of Neurology 55th annual meeting.
In the study known as MIGR-002, which involved 483 patients, Jan Brandes, MD, from the Nashville Neuroscience Center in Tennessee, reported in a poster presentation that as early as one month into treatment, the average number of migraines was reduced by half for 49% of patients receiving topiramate at either 100 or 200 mg per day and 39% of patients taking 50 mg per day.
The mean number of migraines decreased from 5.8 to 3.5 per month for patients receiving 100 mg of topiramate (P= .008) and from 5.1 to 2.9 for patients receiving 200 mg (P = .001) compared with a decrease from 5.6 to 4.5 for those receiving placebo. Patients also experienced significant weight loss: 2.4%, 3.5%, and 4.75% for those receiving 50 mg, 100 mg, and 200 mg per day, respectively (P = .001 for all).
No deaths occurred and no serious adverse events were considered by the study investigators to be related to topiramate. The most common adverse effects for withdrawing from the study were parasthesia, fatigue, nausea, and abdominal pain.
In the MIGR-001 study, reported by Ninan Mathew, MD, from the Houston Headache Clinic in Texas, the efficacy was similar. The most common adverse events resulting in discontinuation included parasthesia, anxiety, difficulty sleeping, and hypoesthesia.
In a phone interview with Medscape, Dr. Brandes said they "had more patients in the [topiramate] trials than any other drug that's been used for prevention. Most of the trials of those that have received [Food and Drug Administration] (FDA) approval have had as few as 96 patients."
The other three drugs on the market for migraine prevention are two hypertension medications, propranolol (Inderal) and timolol (Blocadren), and an anticonvulsant, divalproex (Depakote). Topiramate entered the market for epilepsy in 1997.
Part of the mechanism that causes migraine is that the gray matter is more excitable, Dr. Brandes said. "This hyperexcitability can be moderated by drugs classified [as] antiepileptics. They act as a neuromodulator in patients who have migraine."
Ideal candidates for the drug are people who have at least three or four disabling migraine episodes a month, he said. The drug also appears to reduce the severity of the remaining migraines, which then can be treated with acute therapy, preferably by one of the triptans.
"One of the most exciting things is the effect on weight loss," Dr. Brandes said of topiramate. "That's a very significant advantage for this drug."
Weight gain can be a huge problem with some migraine drugs, such as tricyclic antidepressants.
The weight-loss benefit of topiramate is particularly important, he noted, if the patient is above the normal weight body mass index and additional weight gain would put the patient at increased risk for type 2 diabetes. The issue is especially important for those who already have diabetes.
The most common adverse effect in the MIGR-002 study was parasthesis, which Dr. Brandes called benign and which usually resolves. Researchers advised doctors to tell their patients that this is a normal and transient effect of the drug. In addition, patients should be advised not to go for long periods without food. Tell them, Dr. Brandes said, to "remember to eat carefully."
Also, the drug can make anything carbonated taste odd. Not everyone will have that adverse effect, but if so, that might be an indication to adjust the dosage. One advantage of that adverse effect is that it may help patients decrease their intake of caffeinated carbonated beverages. Overuse of caffeine, Dr. Brandes said, may result in rebound headaches.
"The real concern are the cognitive side effects," said Dr. Rothrock, who noted the effect seems dose-dependent. Problems with memory and finding words show up in about 15% of patients receiving 200 mg, 10% of those receiving 100 mg, 8% of those receiving 50 mg, and 4% of those who received placebo.
To minimize that effect, the researchers advised physicians to start their patients at low doses, perhaps even less than 50 mg a day, and slowly increase the dose. For some patients, 50 mg may be enough, although for most patients, the target dose might be 100 mg.
Physicians also need to be aware of patients' history regarding renal stones and glaucoma, both rare adverse effects that have been reported with this drug, Dr. Brandes said. She advised physicians to have patients treated for any disposition to develop stones prior to placing them on the drug. At the least, patients should be monitoring for this and report any discomfort as it happens, she said.
Dr. Brandes does not place patients on the drug who have glaucoma, but she noted that no patient of hers developed glaucoma while receiving topiramate, and the type of glaucoma that might come from its use would be resolved upon stopping the drug.
But whether a patient's migraines are more likely to be prevented by topiramate or divalproate, for example, can only be determined by patient experience, Drs. Rothrock and Brandes told Medscape. With both drugs, about 50% of patients respond.
"We just don't know," Dr. Rothrock said. So far, there have been no head-to-head trials that might answer that question.
Although older anticonvulsive drugs that were used for migraine interfered with birth control pills and caused bone loss, this has not been found with topiramate, Dr. Brandes said. Dr. Rothrock said he also has not seen "breakthrough pregnancy" due to interference by the drug with birth control drugs, but "it remains a theoretical possibility," he said.
The researchers also noted that the drug began working within the first four weeks, while some drugs tend to take longer to have an effect.
Suzanne Simons, executive director of the National Headache Association in Chicago, Illinois, told Medscape that with these positive results, "You now have another medication to offer patients," and the drug represents another opportunity for the prevention of migraines.
Drs. Brandes, Rothrock, and Mathew's research was supported by Johnson & Johnson Pharmaceutical Research and Development.
AAN 55th Annual Meeting: Abstracts PO3.155, PO3.156, S42.001. Presented April 2, 2003.
Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD
Larry Schuster is a freelance writer for Medscape.
Posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 20:54:07
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight?, posted by Vivi on April 7, 2005, at 19:28:55
> Thank-you. I get so confused with the XR and short acting. Do you know which is better. Right now I take 15 mg Dexedrine. my M.D. suggested Adderall because it works right away. It takes soem time with Dexedrine. Some days I will feel focused and task oriented and other days I don't
The Adderall XR kicks in right away. I never used the regular Adderall because it was never available in Canada. Now the XR isn't available anymore. Some people take the XR and then use the regular Adderall in the afternoon if they feel it's losing its effect.
I'm sure that with Adderall you will have good days and bad days as well. But for me it was the fact that I didn't crash on the Adderall XR. I noticed it's effect had gone in the evening but I didn't have crying spells or irritability the way I do with Ritalin and Dexedrine.
You might as well try it and if you don't like it you can go back to dexedrine. :-)
Maxime
Posted by Vivi on April 7, 2005, at 20:58:41
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Vivi, posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 20:54:07
I am supposed to meet with my M.D. next week and discuss switching from Dexedrine to adderall. i tried Ritalin, but that made em have too many mood swings. Dexedrine has been starting to take my appetite. Does Adderall do the same? Whats the Generic for that? I took the generic for Dexedrine-Dextroamphetamine.
Oh by the way, are you familiar with Ambien? I take it for sleep and really need it after taking the Dexedrine.
Thanks for all your help,
Viv
Posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 21:29:36
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight?, posted by Vivi on April 7, 2005, at 20:58:41
For Adderall XR there is no generic. I don't know about regular Adderall. Yes, Adderall will lessen your appetite but that usually goes away after a while. You said you didn't want to lose weight so you will just have to force yourself to eat. :-)
Ambien isn't available in Canada. It was, but then they took it off the shelves. I used it when I was is the U.S. and it stopped working after 3 nights. If the Dexedrine is making it hard for you to sleep then you should take a lesser dose. If you take the Adderall XR it lasts for 12 hours (more or less). Just make sure you don't take it too late.
You said you found the dexedrine didn't work fast enough? Take it on an empty stomach and it will work faster.
Good luck to you!
Maxime
> I am supposed to meet with my M.D. next week and discuss switching from Dexedrine to adderall. i tried Ritalin, but that made em have too many mood swings. Dexedrine has been starting to take my appetite. Does Adderall do the same? Whats the Generic for that? I took the generic for Dexedrine-Dextroamphetamine.
> Oh by the way, are you familiar with Ambien? I take it for sleep and really need it after taking the Dexedrine.
> Thanks for all your help,
> Viv
Posted by ed_uk on April 8, 2005, at 7:10:04
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Vivi, posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 21:29:36
Hi Maxime!
>Ambien isn't available in Canada. It was, but then they took it off the shelves.
I didn't know that. Why was it withdrawn?
Ed xxx
Posted by Maxime on April 8, 2005, at 10:49:13
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on April 8, 2005, at 7:10:04
Hi Ed-
On Feb 11th. I remember the exact date because I was to refill my prescription. That is why I had to go cold turkey. That is why I really fell apart after that and switched to dexedrine.
Children had strokes on it in the U.S. and there had been one fatality, again a child in the U.S. Canada is always the first to pull a med. It was the first to pull Serzone.
xxxxx
Maxi
> Hi Maxime!
>
> >Ambien isn't available in Canada. It was, but then they took it off the shelves.
>
> I didn't know that. Why was it withdrawn?
>
> Ed xxx
Posted by Maxime on April 8, 2005, at 10:52:17
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on April 8, 2005, at 7:10:04
Sorry Ed. I am so Adderall focused that I misread your post.
I don't know why they pulled it. It didn't some standard. It was called Starnox (sp?) here.
Maxi
> Hi Maxime!
>
> >Ambien isn't available in Canada. It was, but then they took it off the shelves.
>
> I didn't know that. Why was it withdrawn?
>
> Ed xxx
Posted by Paulbwell on April 8, 2005, at 22:32:24
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Paulbwell, posted by Maxime on April 5, 2005, at 22:36:03
> > HAHA
> >
> > This is not 1956
> >
> > HEHE
>
> Can you let us in on the joke?
>
> MaximeHi,
Sure,
Dex and other Amphetamines including Methylamphetamine (the most powerfull) were advertised and used extensively in 1950s-1960s for weight loss-purposes.
This has loooong since fallen out of Medical fashion
A Doc prescibing these, (for weight loss) except in EXTREME circumstances--
IS BREAKING THE LAW
Posted by Vivi on April 9, 2005, at 0:14:33
In reply to Maxime-Dex-The joke, posted by Paulbwell on April 8, 2005, at 22:32:24
Well the concern about the weight for me was because I do not need to lose any.
Posted by Vivi on April 9, 2005, at 0:18:10
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight?, posted by Paulbwell on April 5, 2005, at 21:13:58
I have read that in some cases M.D.'s do prescribe amphetamines for weight loss
Posted by Paulbwell on April 9, 2005, at 2:24:55
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight?, posted by Vivi on April 9, 2005, at 0:18:10
> I have read that in some cases M.D.'s do prescribe amphetamines for weight loss
Yes you are correct
Desoxyn 5mg (Methamphetamine) tablets, (Ovation Pharmaceuticals) according to their website, is OFFICALLY indicated for two purposes ONLY,
-ADHD
-Weight loss, short-term, (few weeks) for Exogenous obesity.These are the only medical indications for the tablets.
They are rarely used
Posted by vivi on April 9, 2005, at 23:21:54
In reply to VIvi, posted by Paulbwell on April 9, 2005, at 2:24:55
Thanks for the information. Do you know if Adderall causes weight loss more so than dexedrine. My M.D. wants to talk about switching to the short acting Adderall. Any information is appreciated.
Posted by Interested on April 10, 2005, at 12:46:18
In reply to Re: For Interested, posted by Maxime on April 7, 2005, at 20:48:26
Thanks, Maxime. I've read it with interest. In fact, I asked my neurologist to prescribe Topamax 25 mg. I tried it last night, I was very nauseated and felt terrible. Have you taken Topamax? Did you get over the side effects with time?
Posted by paulbwell on April 10, 2005, at 17:13:33
In reply to Re: VIvi, posted by vivi on April 9, 2005, at 23:21:54
> Thanks for the information. Do you know if Adderall causes weight loss more so than dexedrine. My M.D. wants to talk about switching to the short acting Adderall. Any information is appreciated.
Hi,
I would pledge my bets on Adderall causing more weight loss, considering it was sold as a diet pill into the 1970s under the tradename (Obetrol)-get it?. This exact same pill (mixed L and D Amphetamine salts) when removed from the market, was reintroduced in 1996 and given the different name of Adderall to treat ADD-get it.
D Amphetamine is said to be ten x more nurologically active as l Amphetamine, its mirror image, which causes far more physical stimulation vs central.
Most people find Dex causes weight loss early in treatment which then ceases after several weeks.Is your MD treating you with Dex for weight issues?
Posted by vivi on April 10, 2005, at 17:39:56
In reply to Re: VIvi_Adderall weight loss, posted by paulbwell on April 10, 2005, at 17:13:33
> > Thanks for the information. Do you know if Adderall causes weight loss more so than dexedrine. My M.D. wants to talk about switching to the short acting Adderall. Any information is appreciated.
>
> Hi,
>
> I would pledge my bets on Adderall causing more weight loss, considering it was sold as a diet pill into the 1970s under the tradename (Obetrol)-get it?. This exact same pill (mixed L and D Amphetamine salts) when removed from the market, was reintroduced in 1996 and given the different name of Adderall to treat ADD-get it.
> D Amphetamine is said to be ten x more nurologically active as l Amphetamine, its mirror image, which causes far more physical stimulation vs central.
> Most people find Dex causes weight loss early in treatment which then ceases after several weeks.
>
> Is your MD treating you with Dex for weight issues?No,for ADD. I am worried about the weight loss because I have a high metabolism and do not need to lose any weight. I know I need to talk to my M.D. about these concerns. Do you know anything about Straterra? I am wondering if that might be better since it is a non-stimulant. The Dexedrine has been affecting my appetite somewhat, but not like I thought.
Thanks for any information,
Viv
Posted by paulbwell on April 10, 2005, at 19:32:14
In reply to Re: VIvi_Adderall weight loss, posted by vivi on April 10, 2005, at 17:39:56
> > > Thanks for the information. Do you know if Adderall causes weight loss more so than dexedrine. My M.D. wants to talk about switching to the short acting Adderall. Any information is appreciated.
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would pledge my bets on Adderall causing more weight loss, considering it was sold as a diet pill into the 1970s under the tradename (Obetrol)-get it?. This exact same pill (mixed L and D Amphetamine salts) when removed from the market, was reintroduced in 1996 and given the different name of Adderall to treat ADD-get it.
> > D Amphetamine is said to be ten x more nurologically active as l Amphetamine, its mirror image, which causes far more physical stimulation vs central.
> > Most people find Dex causes weight loss early in treatment which then ceases after several weeks.
> >
> > Is your MD treating you with Dex for weight issues?
>
> No,for ADD. I am worried about the weight loss because I have a high metabolism and do not need to lose any weight. I know I need to talk to my M.D. about these concerns. Do you know anything about Straterra? I am wondering if that might be better since it is a non-stimulant. The Dexedrine has been affecting my appetite somewhat, but not like I thought.
> Thanks for any information,
> Viv
>
>
Hi,I would avoid Adderall in your case then. I take Ritalin and wonder if you have? It often MAKES me hungry. It causes little little physical stimulation if the dose is kept low, and may be worth trying, althought the IR is SHORT acting, and requires frequent dosing.
Posted by stresser on April 10, 2005, at 20:16:38
In reply to Re: VIvi_Adderall weight loss, posted by vivi on April 10, 2005, at 17:39:56
Hi, I recently started taking Strattera, and from what I have noticed I have not had a decrease in appetite. I like that way it helps me contentrate, and stay in the moment. (so to speak) I do think it may be a little to sedating for me, because I feel as if I have no energy to do the physical things I do on a daily basis. I am very dehydrated and have a weak feeling. I have a follow-up appt. Tues. with my doctor and I don't know what she will tell me to do. I may not get anything else, because I know she doesn't like to give stimulants. I really don't think I can continue the Strattera, even though it's great mentally. -L
Posted by notfeelingthebest on April 11, 2005, at 2:54:38
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight? » Interested, posted by Maxime on April 6, 2005, at 21:05:33
In my opinion, speed in general is a nasty drug. I take dexedrine myself sparingly to help me study. I dont know you so I dont know how responsible you are with meds. Yes, alot of people will lose weight while taking them as they supress your appetite for a very long time. In fact, its difficult to eat while youre peaking.
Nonetheless i thinks its risky. You might be happy with the weight loss (and the buzz), but you can very easily get a little carried away, stay awake too long, and slip into a really rotten state.
Your eyes turn into cheerios, and you start thinking way too much about everything and anything. You can really feel the paranoid thoughts coming on and its not pleasant. For as long as you stay awake, you have to sleep for the same amount of time. It really is unhealthy crap. Besides, if youre like most people, the weight will come back in a flash.
Posted by Paulbwell on April 11, 2005, at 9:27:24
In reply to Re: Dexedrine to lose weight?, posted by notfeelingthebest on April 11, 2005, at 2:54:38
> In my opinion, speed in general is a nasty drug. I take dexedrine myself sparingly to help me study. I dont know you so I dont know how responsible you are with meds. Yes, alot of people will lose weight while taking them as they supress your appetite for a very long time. In fact, its difficult to eat while youre peaking.
>
> Nonetheless i thinks its risky. You might be happy with the weight loss (and the buzz), but you can very easily get a little carried away, stay awake too long, and slip into a really rotten state.
>
> Your eyes turn into cheerios, and you start thinking way too much about everything and anything. You can really feel the paranoid thoughts coming on and its not pleasant. For as long as you stay awake, you have to sleep for the same amount of time. It really is unhealthy crap. Besides, if youre like most people, the weight will come back in a flash.The dose is too high then,
Thats why amphets are no more used for weight loss, cause the weight loss stops and oftens comes back, with added in tow
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