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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 22:01:39
In reply to Above for ED-UK, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 21:44:53
This is a Great Thread! It's good when you bring so many people out that have the same problem and concerns and let them know that they're not alone. I know I thought I was. It seems all you read about are the AD's and mood stabilizers. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 22:02:57
In reply to Re: Hi Paul, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 21:40:34
Hi P!
>I tried Imipramine-gained 8kgs in 4 weeks and fainted twice.
Well... Nardil often causes weight gain. It sometimes causes fainting too. It's nothing like imipramine though so you might like it!
>All i knew at 20 was that there was something different bout me, where I tried to live like my m8s but suffered for it, and had terrible anxiety, and difficulty keeping a job. I was constantly searching for the reason why I was like I was. I SUFFERED for MANY years untreated, while my life stalled.
What was different about you? (Apart from your anxiety)
Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 22:05:52
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 22:02:57
Hi Ed! Yes, you definitely like to stay up at night. Have you slept at all? It's early morning there right? And you have a big day ahead of you. Fondly Phillipa, J OOOOOO
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 22:12:30
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » ed_uk, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 22:05:52
Hi P!
>Yes, you definitely like to stay up at night.
I woke up very late so I haven't really been awake for that long! My circadian rhythms are totally messed up atm!
Ed xxx
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 22:21:42
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 22:02:57
> Hi P!
>
> >I tried Imipramine-gained 8kgs in 4 weeks and fainted twice.
>
> Well... Nardil often causes weight gain. It sometimes causes fainting too. It's nothing like imipramine though so you might like it!
>
> >All i knew at 20 was that there was something different bout me, where I tried to live like my m8s but suffered for it, and had terrible anxiety, and difficulty keeping a job. I was constantly searching for the reason why I was like I was. I SUFFERED for MANY years untreated, while my life stalled.
>
> What was different about you? (Apart from your anxiety)
>
> Ed.
I was biochemically imballenced for a long time, and didn't know what to do about it.I should have got medical help sooner. I tried
WE LIVE AND LEARN.
Posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2005, at 0:11:51
In reply to Re: Phillipa » FredPotter, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 17:00:00
Hi Phillipa I'm much better off without ETOH but like you say going to a party or a bar is so boring. Last week I deliberately sat at the table where they were drinking too much. They were more fun to be with. Like smokers. I miss the fun of drinking more than anything
Fred
Posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2005, at 0:32:06
In reply to Re: Hi Fred, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 18:32:11
Hi Paul there's something atypical about my anxiety in that it's very deep and emotional rather than jittery. So I don't suppose benzos ever really did much. All the ADs were tried and may have helped. I'm not convinced. Therapy didn't help much. I'm now washed up on the shores of late middle age with whatever was last prescribed for me. They may help or as I suspect may not. Viz Xanax, Celexa, Lithium and Imovane for sleep. I take L-Tyrosine to give me some energy, which may help, but the most energising thing for me is hard work and feeling part of a community. I think it's taken 58 years for me to grow up. A couple of key attitudes about really basic human things have done most good for me I think. And they weren't taught me by therapy either. Osmosis I think.
I used alcohol as an anxiolytic for decades and I think unfortunately it was the only drug that ever worked, for it eventually caused damage to me and my life and I had to give it up. That's done me a lot of good though, although it's a bit sensible and boring sometimes.
Yes they've tried to persuade me about the evils of benzos and when I went to hospital with alcohol poisoning they decided that was the time to force me off Xanax. Pretty dumb. I had a seizure and went unconscious for a couple of days. They found me outside in the hospital grounds in the rain with hypotension and hypothermia. I have a memory of the onset of the seizure but the rest is like a dream.
Sorry not to be more positive about drugs. I don't believe any of my present well-being has been caused by them. But neither do I feel any compulsion to stop them. I don't remember any memory loss (ha!)
All the best Paul - good thread Fred
Posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2005, at 0:34:14
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:07:10
Hi Ed no I haven't tried Nardil. Do you think I should? I was on Marplan years ago, but it didn't work. It just caused weight gain. That sort of put me off MAOIs
Fred
Posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2005, at 0:43:14
In reply to Re: Phillipa » FredPotter, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 17:00:00
Hey Phillipa would you like to come to a bar and watch people drink some time? Sorry I suppose you live in the States. I'm in NZ. You describe anxiety in a way that rings true. Thanks
Fred
Posted by ed_uk on April 5, 2005, at 7:33:38
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » ed_uk, posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2005, at 0:34:14
Hi Fred!
Do you remember what dose of Marplan you were on? Marplan often seems to have been prescribed at subtherapeutic doses. Perhaps you could check your medical records some time.
I expect you would gain weight on Nardil too- but it might be effective for your anxiety.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on April 5, 2005, at 16:44:29
In reply to Re: Marplan » FredPotter, posted by ed_uk on April 5, 2005, at 7:33:38
Sure Fred! Can you afford my plane ticket? My husband wouldn't mind. Yes, I'm in North Carolina. We stay home since we both quit drinking. And I don't feel comfortable around people who are drinking and having a great time if I can't too. Am I selfish? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Paulbwell on April 5, 2005, at 19:16:43
In reply to Re: Phillipa » Phillipa, posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2005, at 0:43:14
> Hey Phillipa would you like to come to a bar and watch people drink some time? Sorry I suppose you live in the States. I'm in NZ. You describe anxiety in a way that rings true. Thanks
> FredGo to a bar and watch people drink? I live in NZ, and have done it, (for acting-work practice) MMM I'd rather go and watch and drink too, say Ginger beer, alergic to ETOH (unfortunatly) or fortunatly?. It could be amusing-Drunk watching, and profitable too, I'v more than once picked up $20 from the bar floor;). who's shout thought?
Cheers
Posted by Maxime on April 5, 2005, at 22:45:21
In reply to Re:Thats disgusting!, posted by alienatari on April 3, 2005, at 23:46:27
Hi. I had already had the seizure when I went to the hospital. Not that it changes that what they did to me was awful.
Maxime
> I cant believe they did that to you in hospital. They let you have a seizure from withdrawal? God, that is awful.
>
> Im not addicted to benzo's but I agree they are great for anxiety, been on 17 antidepressants and only the benzo's work for me. Now i take ativan every few days (doc wont let me take them every day unfortunatly). And I agree with what was posted above, the real experts are the people who have been on these meds for years and know what its like to finally have some relief. SSRI's are utter crap for anxiety, well for me anyway, I guess they might work for some people.
>
> Take care
>
Posted by sdb on April 6, 2005, at 6:55:12
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
Hi all and hi long term benzo users,
does/did somebody have memory problems during longterm treatment and which benzos and how much dosage do you take?
Bye
Posted by sdb on April 6, 2005, at 12:12:10
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by Ritch on April 4, 2005, at 10:45:39
Thank you for that thread.
My personal experience with ssris for anxiety is very bad (I am bipolar with anxiety, negative thoughts and panic attacks when i am in the bad fog . I have taken many ssris for example citalopram, escitalopram, mirtazapine and so on). Citalopram did not cure anything but it was at least better than escitalopram (in spite of the state from the manufacturer that this new version should be much more "potential"). Escitalopram caused more panic attacks especially during a performance and made me more depressed, mirtazapine had some positive effects on low dosages for some days (probably because it blocks crh1 receptors). But then the mirtazapine also caused me panic attacks when the plasma levels rose and the activating noradrenaline began to work.
Many doctors thought the ssris would be the solution for every problem. They have used and use it extensively. Some doctors really believe that "more serotonin in the synaptic cleft is proportional to less depression and less anxiety". But that's only a simple postulation not a proven fact. I honestly believe its much more complicated. But the reality is that ssris can really work for some people but not in many cases in people with some mental disorders connected with anxiety or with anxiety alone. And the reality is that ssris can have serious side effects: It can make you feeling even more suicidal, more nervous, you can have negative metabolic side effects so that you will be fat (rising LDL levels), your sexual life can be diminished, although sexual life for many persons is an essential thing for their life quality.
What is the definition of drug abuse? There are definitaly drugs you will have a kick when you take it and you have to up the dosage to have the same kick some time later. This is because of the plasticity of dopamine transmission in the the "Area tegmentalis ventralis" in the old part (archicortex) of our brain and unfortunately following adaption by neurons. Benzos also have effect on this system but i think it is less compared with other drugs. Overall the need to up the dosage to have steady good effects is on average not so high than with other drugs.
I generally think that benzos are different than drugs like opiates, cocaine,... I think that there is no abuse for people with anxiety disorders with these drugs. People with anxiety disorders want to cure a serious problem.
What is the real definition of drug abuse? -Up the dosage from time to time or taking cocaine by "normal" individuals to feel like a hero? Problably it is difficult to find a definition from the psychological and also pharmacological standpoint.
What I dont understand is the negativ answer from the society about these drugs. "Normal" persons drinking caffeine in the morning, drinking beer the afternoon and have a joint occasionally. These substances also have effects in the brain, not equal but often similar. Where's the difference? There is something in the body which normally should not be in our body (when we were young primates we only drank water and ate different fruit and nuts and later meat). By the way: every substance and even water is toxic. It only depends from the dosage.
My interest is benzos and social phobia. Does any long term benzo user have continuing good effects (which drug, side effects, dosage)?
Posted by Mr.Scott on April 6, 2005, at 13:01:38
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
I don't know if there is a single answer that fits us all. I have taken benzos on and off but more often on than off since 1991. First Xanax then Klonopin and I've also used ativan and tranxene at times. In total since 1991 I've probably been completely off a total of 1.5 years. I have had a tendency to decrease the dose because I feel they can worsen my depressive symptoms and make me a bumbling monkey if the dose is too high. I range from .5mg-1.0mg clonazepam. 1mg would indicate a severe problem that rarely if ever occurrs. I'd like to get off completely or find an alternative, but no, the effect on anxiety that they have has not dissipated over time. I don't like the dependence issues at all, but AD's are highly problematic for me and therefore not a viable treatment for my anxiety in and of themselves.
Scott
Posted by sdb on April 6, 2005, at 16:33:14
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
My grandmother is on a benzo since 30 years (almost ninety years old). The benzo was orginally prescribed for sleep problems a long time ago. She takes oxazepam retard but I dont know the dosage.
She has a very good memory, even a better memory than I have and a lot better memory than her new friend (approx. 86 years and med free) who has little dementia . She also drives cars but not by night and mostly routes she knows.
Posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 14:16:55
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by sdb on April 6, 2005, at 16:33:14
I've been on Klonopin for ten years. I am off it now for eight months, but may go back on. I mean, it DID work for me. I just had a doc who felt that CBT might be a great option...
Posted by antigua3 on January 19, 2009, at 17:16:59
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 14:16:55
The two treatments don't have to be mutually exclusive. I do both.
antigua
Posted by manic666 on January 20, 2009, at 14:15:03
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 14:16:55
been on ativan ie lorazepam more than 20 years , i do CBT still carry on meds why stop an put yourself through crap ,just to start again.
Posted by TimeLord on January 20, 2009, at 15:34:06
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by manic666 on January 20, 2009, at 14:15:03
Well, I didn't really want to stop taking it. My new doc felt it was a good idea because of the "dangers" of benzo use (which is HIGHLY discussed by fearmonger "support sites"). If benzos were so bad, they'd be off the market, right? I admit that some people might have trouble, but I honestly think that most people are dealing with an underlying disorder, not just withdrawal. Just my two cents.
I may just go back on, though my anxiety symptoms are different now than they used to be. How odd.
Posted by Phillipa on January 20, 2009, at 20:00:13
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by TimeLord on January 20, 2009, at 15:34:06
No mine are also different would like to know why also. Any ideas? Love Phillipa ps only meds don't fear.
Posted by TimeLord on January 21, 2009, at 10:11:01
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » TimeLord, posted by Phillipa on January 20, 2009, at 20:00:13
My CB therapist gave me two thoughts...
The first thought was that my being off the meds for so long allowed my body to adapt and change. I don't even have real panic attacks now - it's weird. I still feel the anxiety. but it's more controllable (to a point).
The second would be that withdrawal is still going on and that I'm experiencing changes due to that.
I really don't get it.
For me, I woke up one morning and felt like I was going to have a panic attack, which is normal for me. However, nothing happened. In place of that, I felt all of my emotions kind of drift away and finally noticed that my anxiety, all of those damn what if scnearios, were under control. They still are, too. I just can't sleep. I haven't slept well in months - one or two hours a night.
Posted by anne-sophie on January 22, 2009, at 12:18:46
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by TimeLord on January 21, 2009, at 10:11:01
I've been on Ativan (8mg) and Valium (20mg) for eight years. They stopped working for me after about a year. Moreover, I was extremely depressed and became completely addicted to them. Because of the rebound effect I was actually more anxious than I am now. I would recommend anyone to come off them.
Posted by blue46 on January 31, 2009, at 3:00:23
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 14:16:55
I was on benzos for about eight years, mostly kolonopin. For me it was very bad. I became deoendent on them and have a habit of avoiding life and they made it easier. This is probably because I am an alcoholic.
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