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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 74. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jay on April 3, 2005, at 4:36:22
Last weekend at a friends place, and he gets giant pills of Oxycontin every month for a work-related disability. So, I have a *wee* headache (ha, nice excuse!) and decided to pop 2 back. (I think that was 20 mg's..not sure..doh!) Well, I never, ever felt better than ever, all of my tension released, relaxed, got home and had the best sleep ever. I am so confused about this...in their use for mental illness, would we develop a tolerance? What do you guys think?
Thanks,
Jay
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 3, 2005, at 9:57:54
In reply to Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!!, posted by jay on April 3, 2005, at 4:36:22
> Last weekend at a friends place, and he gets giant pills of Oxycontin every month for a work-related disability. So, I have a *wee* headache (ha, nice excuse!) and decided to pop 2 back. (I think that was 20 mg's..not sure..doh!) Well, I never, ever felt better than ever, all of my tension released, relaxed, got home and had the best sleep ever. I am so confused about this...in their use for mental illness, would we develop a tolerance? What do you guys think?
>
> Thanks,
> JayHere's the problem for psych use. Tolerance.
You will only get the effect you describe if you use the drug occasionally. Occasionally can mean different things to different people, but once weekly may be too often for most.
The active ingredient, oxycodone, is very addictive. Next to heroin, (and maybe even ahead of it now), oxycodone is the most abused opiate or opiate-related drug. It is a very slippery slope, and you have one foot firmly planted on it. Taking two is already drug-abusive behaviour. Beware.
Lar
Posted by Spriggy on April 3, 2005, at 11:12:15
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » jay, posted by Larry Hoover on April 3, 2005, at 9:57:54
They gave my dad that stuff 2 years ago after 7 back surgeries. My dad became addicted VERy quickly and began abusing it very quickly.
He became a man we did not even know. He was so mean, hateful, rude, and just the total opposite of everything "he is."He finally came to his senses and told his doctor's he could NO longer be on this medicine as it was ruining his life.
Oddly enough, now that he has been given such a short time to live, Hospice now has him on it again BUT they give it to him and monitor it.
It's much better this time around- it keeps him out of pain but he isn't abusing it.
Posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2005, at 17:08:15
In reply to Beware of that stuff!, posted by Spriggy on April 3, 2005, at 11:12:15
Yes be careful with any of those drugs. I only took percocet for l day as the surgeon said I had to. Now I'm taking a tylenol with codeine at bedtime and once during the night. I don't need to get addicted. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2005, at 19:35:45
In reply to Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!!, posted by jay on April 3, 2005, at 4:36:22
Jay, do a search at psychobabble on oxycontin and a poster named, I think, Shelley.
Posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 22:31:50
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » jay, posted by Dinah on April 3, 2005, at 19:35:45
Jay,
or do a search for "The Osbournes" namely "Jack" and "Kelly", + REHAB ;)
Thank God That stuff wasn't round' in the early 1970's or Ozzy *may* be long gone.
"Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most"---OZZY.
Posted by The_Resistance on April 4, 2005, at 8:01:24
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....search time, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 22:31:50
Disclaimer
I have no experience of using opiates for mental health.However just because some people abuse Opiates does not mean no one should use them!
Some people abuse stimulents, benzos, GHB even tryclics (in the UK)
On the other hand for some people they are good drugs, you have to make up your own mind
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2005, at 8:49:37
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....search time, posted by The_Resistance on April 4, 2005, at 8:01:24
> Disclaimer
> I have no experience of using opiates for mental health.
>
> However just because some people abuse Opiates does not mean no one should use them!
>
> Some people abuse stimulents, benzos, GHB even tryclics (in the UK)
> On the other hand for some people they are good drugs, you have to make up your own mind
>Absolutely true, but speaking to those with experience can illuminate the situation.
I take oxycodone daily, and it's not the first time I've used it daily. I use it at a dose where I believe I minimize the psychoactive effects, but, earlier episodes have shown me that simply stopping using the drug can (it's hard to show cause and effect) potentially induce a very serious depression. The only time I've ever been hospitalized, coincidence or not, was about a month after I went off a long-term period of oxycodone use (for pain, following joint surgery). It was like falling off a cliff.
User beware. This is a powerful medication, and can have unanticipated effects.
Lar
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 8:57:05
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....search time, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 22:31:50
Hello,
Oxycodone is not unique, there are many other opioids with similar effects. It has received a somewhat innappropriate amount of media attention however which has probably contributed to its misuse.
Ed.
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 17:21:40
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....search time, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 8:57:05
> Hello,
>
> Oxycodone is not unique, there are many other opioids with similar effects. It has received a somewhat innappropriate amount of media attention however which has probably contributed to its misuse.
>
> Ed.Hi Ya Ed,
completly agreed, cept' for"oxy is not unique, there are many other Opiods with similar effects"
I bow to your no doubt superior knowledge here,
but is Oxy so favoured because it is so *very* bioavailable orally? and nasally?- enhancing abuse potential?- as compared to say Morphine?,
and because Oxy users report it being such a stimulating Opiod-relative to the others?
Cheers Ed
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 18:27:00
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....Ed-UK, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 17:21:40
Hi!
>but is Oxy so favoured because it is so *very* bioavailable orally? and nasally?- enhancing abuse potential?- as compared to say Morphine?
As an analgesic, 10mg oral oxycodone is *approximately* equivalent to 15mg morphine.
I think you're right about oxycodone being much better absorbed nasally (compared to morphine) .......but I haven't researched it.>and because Oxy users report it being such a stimulating Opiod-relative to the others?
It does seem to be somewhat less sedating than morphine, some people might prefer the sedative effects though! I suppose I was just saying that oxycodone abuse has been fuelled by the excessive amount of media attention that it's received in the US. It hasn't received much attention in the UK, I don't think many people will even have heard of it here- although I could be wrong.
Since OxyContin is an effective treatment for severe pain, I personally find sensationalist media articles about oxycodone highly irritating. IMHO, people who suffer the agony of chronic severe pain should never be denied an effective treatment because some people are unwise enough to misuse it!
Kind regards,
Ed.IMO, all recreational drugs should be legally available from 'licensed' outlets. If people want to take the risk then let them! The DEA and other such unpleasant agencies do more harm than good. Heroin addicts would be much better off injecting (known doses of) pharmaceutical heroin than the (unknown doses of) contaminated cr*p that they buy on the streets!
Also, crime could be greatly reduced in the UK if more heroin addicts were prescribed heroin on the National Health Service. Prohibition has been a massive disaster. The next time someone gets mugged/murdered, their car gets stolen or their house gets broken into because someone is desperate for their next fix, just think how much easier it would be if we just gave them what they wanted. Pharmacetical diamorphine isn't particularly expensive, the government could easily provide it to registered opiate addicts. Sorry about the rant :-S
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 18:57:46
In reply to Re: Oxycontin » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 18:27:00
> > IMO, all recreational drugs should be legally available from 'licensed' outlets. If people want to take the risk then let them! The DEA and other such unpleasant agencies do more harm than good. Heroin addicts would be much better off injecting (known doses of) pharmaceutical heroin than the (unknown doses of) contaminated cr*p that they buy on the streets!
>
> Also, crime could be greatly reduced in the UK if more heroin addicts were prescribed heroin on the National Health Service. Prohibition has been a massive disaster. The next time someone gets mugged/murdered, their car gets stolen or their house gets broken into because someone is desperate for their next fix, just think how much easier it would be if we just gave them what they wanted. Pharmacetical diamorphine isn't particularly expensive, the government could easily provide it to registered opiate addicts. Sorry about the rant :-SNo, lets keep building more prisons,filling em' up (50%) for personal drug use (crime)?, taking up more time, judicial, police, and wasting another $75 or is it up this year to 100 billion? USA, of honest law abiding citizens tax dollars, into fighting "the drug war"- cos its working isn't it?.
yer right, it sure is:
-protecting the Pharm companies MAINLY.
-the seen to be 'winning' governments war.Ask any Police constable 'on the beat' in your country or here down under, on say, Fri Sat nights and they will tell you Alcohol should be a class A drug, and the drug policies you outlined bought in.
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:33:04
In reply to Re: Oxycontin YES!!!, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 18:57:46
Hi P!
>No, lets keep building more prisons,filling em' up (50%) for personal drug use (crime)?
In the UK, maximum 7 years in prison + an unlimited fine for the possession of one MDMA tablet. Give me a break! These are not the people that we should be filling our prisons with! Taking an MDMA is risky but it ought to be a matter of individual choice for adults over the age of 18, I do not consider personal drug use to be a crime. At least if people could buy recreational drugs from licensed outlets they would know what they were getting and what dose. At the moment, people just pop an 'ecstasy' pill having no idea what drug it actually contains or how much. The risk of overdose is high.... if people have been told that a particular pill is 'weak' they are likely to take a few. Then when it turns out that their pills each contained a high dose, they will be in need of a visit to the ER!
Atm, a lot of opiate addicts do not accept treatment because they do not want methadone. Some heroin addicts are not interested in treatment, they have every intention of continuing to use it. We would be better of just giving them heroin because drug crime is common. My mother was recently threatened by a man with a knife, he wanted her money for drugs.
Ed.
Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2005, at 20:22:51
In reply to Re: Oxycontin YES!!!, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 18:57:46
Of course, alchohol is the main causer of problems exactly because it's legal. More kids have been beaten by someone under the influence booze than under the influence of cocaine. Because it's legal. More people have died from car accidents caused by people driving under the influence of alchohol. Because it's legal.
The more effect a potential mind altering substance has, the more potential it has to cause trouble if it's made widely available. By being legal.
Just my 2 cents. And I'm too tired for debate. But I just think you can't look at the argument in isolation.
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:28:41
In reply to Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!!, posted by jay on April 3, 2005, at 4:36:22
> Last weekend at a friends place, and he gets giant pills of Oxycontin every month for a work-related disability. So, I have a *wee* headache (ha, nice excuse!) and decided to pop 2 back. (I think that was 20 mg's..not sure..doh!) Well, I never, ever felt better than ever, all of my tension released, relaxed, got home and had the best sleep ever. I am so confused about this...in their use for mental illness, would we develop a tolerance? What do you guys think?
>
> Thanks,
> JayJay, my pdoc has recently prescribed me oxycontin for my treatment-resistant depression. There are studies that show it's useful for depression. Please babblemail me or email me at jerrympls@mn.rr.com for more info. You can also search for my posts entitled "The Opiate Trials."
Jerry
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:31:25
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » jay, posted by Larry Hoover on April 3, 2005, at 9:57:54
> > Last weekend at a friends place, and he gets giant pills of Oxycontin every month for a work-related disability. So, I have a *wee* headache (ha, nice excuse!) and decided to pop 2 back. (I think that was 20 mg's..not sure..doh!) Well, I never, ever felt better than ever, all of my tension released, relaxed, got home and had the best sleep ever. I am so confused about this...in their use for mental illness, would we develop a tolerance? What do you guys think?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jay
>
> Here's the problem for psych use. Tolerance.
>
> You will only get the effect you describe if you use the drug occasionally. Occasionally can mean different things to different people, but once weekly may be too often for most.
>
> The active ingredient, oxycodone, is very addictive. Next to heroin, (and maybe even ahead of it now), oxycodone is the most abused opiate or opiate-related drug. It is a very slippery slope, and you have one foot firmly planted on it. Taking two is already drug-abusive behaviour. Beware.
>
> Lar
>
>I disagree that taking 20mg of Oxycontin is drug abuse behavior - and while tolerance is an issue - it doesn't happen all the time. I'm going on 5 months continuous treatment with an opiate PRESCRIBED by my pdoc for my depression. Still works like day #1.
Jerry
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 20:41:57
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » Larry Hoover, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:31:25
Hi Jerry!
I think Lar was worried because Jay took enough OxyContin to make him say WOW!!!!!!
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:45:23
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....search time, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 22:31:50
> Jay,
>
> or do a search for "The Osbournes" namely "Jack" and "Kelly", + REHAB ;)
>
> Thank God That stuff wasn't round' in the early 1970's or Ozzy *may* be long gone.
>
>
> "Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most"---OZZY.Paul--with all due respect I personally think that it's these celebs that give pain meds such a bad name. They get hooked becuase they're rich and bored - then go to a $10,000/day rehab center - come out 30 days later and do interviews saying how terrible these evil pain meds are for getting them addicted! Every celeb that has been in rehab for opiate addiction blames the opiate. Then they go so far as to say things like "They should take opiates off the market!" BOO HOO. There are millions of people living with chronic pain who are able to live a somewhat pain-free life with these meds. The media overblows everything.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying opiates aren't addictive or one should not be cautious when taking them - But most docs don't think twice when prescribing amphetamines and they're just as addictive.
I've had treatment-resistant depression for 13 years. The beginning of this year my pdoc (after doing some research and reading some that I brought in) decided to augment my current meds with an opiate. So far so good. Yes, I am worried about tolerance - but I don't have any thus far. Opiates make me feel as close to normal as I've ever felt. I do not experience a high nor do I hunger for more. I've stayed at the same dose since I started. I have my fingers crossed.
Yes, of course I wish I were one of those "lucky" responders who take an SSRI and their depression melts away - I wish I didn't have to take anything.
Again - my opinions and experiences - I do not mean any offense to your post.
Jerry :-)
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:47:57
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » jerrympls, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 20:41:57
> Hi Jerry!
>
> I think Lar was worried because Jay took enough OxyContin to make him say WOW!!!!!!
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.
Hey Ed!Well, the first time I noticed that an opiate helped my depression my feeling was "WOW" too. When a med helps you so much you can't help but "feel good about it." ;-)
BTW - how are you these days???
Jerry
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 21:06:28
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....search time » paulbwell, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:45:23
Hi Jerry!
>BTW - how are you these days???
I'm not too bad thank you :-)
I'm trying to encourage my parents to pay for me to see a private pdoc, I'm sick of the SSRI merry-go-round! I'd like to try an MAOI instead of my current lofepramine but it's difficult to find a pdoc who prescribes MAOIs. Lofepramine's OK but I've still got too many symptoms.
>saying how terrible these evil pain meds are for getting them addicted!
LOL! .....As if they didn't know it was addictive before they took the first pill!!
>"They should take opiates off the market!" BOO HOO.
You're right, people who say things like that are just selfish. What about all the millions of people in chronic severe pain?
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 22:12:44
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....search time » paulbwell, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:45:23
Jerry
Jerry
JerryMy fellow PBler, I'm on YOUR side member?. I agree with you.
Rich kids+too much time+drugs=trouble.I support your O trials, cos I know what Codeine does to my head, and am glad you are well!!.
Pills only have effects.
what people choose to do with thoes effects is up to them.
The media lives on sensation, yes?
not on Jerry, who is restored to WELLNESS by a carefully monitored medication programme.we are together in this.
peace bro
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 22:15:44
In reply to JERRY JERRY JERRY, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 22:12:44
> Jerry
> Jerry
> Jerry
>
> My fellow PBler, I'm on YOUR side member?. I agree with you.
> Rich kids+too much time+drugs=trouble.
>
> I support your O trials, cos I know what Codeine does to my head, and am glad you are well!!.
>
> Pills only have effects.
>
> what people choose to do with thoes effects is up to them.
>
> The media lives on sensation, yes?
> not on Jerry, who is restored to WELLNESS by a carefully monitored medication programme.
>
> we are together in this.
>
> peace broHey Paul--I know we're on the same side. I just didn't want you to take my venting personally. :-)
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 22:27:50
In reply to Re: JERRY JERRY JERRY » paulbwell, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 22:15:44
I didn't,
I think you know you have my support anyways.
cheers
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2005, at 22:37:07
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » Larry Hoover, posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:31:25
> I disagree that taking 20mg of Oxycontin is drug abuse behavior - and while tolerance is an issue - it doesn't happen all the time. I'm going on 5 months continuous treatment with an opiate PRESCRIBED by my pdoc for my depression. Still works like day #1.
>
> JerryBeing prescribed a med, and being under medical supervision, is very different, in my mind, than hanging at a buddy's place and knocking back a psychoactive dose of a powerful drug.
I'm really glad it's working for you, Jerry. I just pray it never poops out, as it could be unpleasant discontinuing.
Lar
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 23:11:21
In reply to Re: Oxycontin for mental health....WOW!!!!!!!!! » jerrympls, posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2005, at 22:37:07
> > I disagree that taking 20mg of Oxycontin is drug abuse behavior - and while tolerance is an issue - it doesn't happen all the time. I'm going on 5 months continuous treatment with an opiate PRESCRIBED by my pdoc for my depression. Still works like day #1.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Being prescribed a med, and being under medical supervision, is very different, in my mind, than hanging at a buddy's place and knocking back a psychoactive dose of a powerful drug.
>
> I'm really glad it's working for you, Jerry. I just pray it never poops out, as it could be unpleasant discontinuing.
>
> Lar
>Lar--I worry that it may poop out - and I hope it doesn't. We'll see....
thanks ;-)
Jerry
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