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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on April 3, 2005, at 23:01:10
I went down from 60mg to...
45mg for 3 days - no probs
now im at 30mg second day...insomnia returning (in spite of 100 nocte Seroquel), anxiety, fright, depression, claustrophic feelings....not good.
Should i use another med to help get off?
i have tones -- neurotin, stelazine, topomax, amisulpride, remeron, amitryptaline, etc -- i have a pharmacy at home....
Please give advice...quick
ace
Posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 23:37:02
In reply to Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal...., posted by ace on April 3, 2005, at 23:01:10
((( Ace ))) I really think your pdoc should help you with this one. But in the meantime maybe some neurontin would calm you down. Or if you have some Zyprexa left over. Don't start self medicating too much okay? You really need your docs help on this one.
I feel for you my friend. You are going to get through this.
Big safe warm hugs,
Maxime> I went down from 60mg to...
>
> 45mg for 3 days - no probs
> now im at 30mg second day...
>
> insomnia returning (in spite of 100 nocte Seroquel), anxiety, fright, depression, claustrophic feelings....not good.
>
> Should i use another med to help get off?
>
> i have tones -- neurotin, stelazine, topomax, amisulpride, remeron, amitryptaline, etc -- i have a pharmacy at home....
>
> Please give advice...quick
>
>
> ace
Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2005, at 0:15:01
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal.... » ace, posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 23:37:02
Ace,
I'm with Maxime on this one. Besides, I don't know enough to advise you.Can you try exercise or meditation or something else physical to help with the insomnia?
I wish I could help more.
Hang in there,
gg
Posted by flipsactown on April 4, 2005, at 7:56:36
In reply to Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal...., posted by ace on April 3, 2005, at 23:01:10
Ace, former Nardil king,? Say, it isn't so!
I haven't been around for a while since Lexapro kicked in combo with Trazodone, so I don't know the details of your Nardil withdrawal saga.
I don't have any advice to give, but can offer my support and understanding of what you are going through. Remember that there is always hope and that you are among friends here at PB. We have all been there,and share your pain and frustrations. Hang tough my friend.
FST
> I went down from 60mg to...
>
> 45mg for 3 days - no probs
> now im at 30mg second day...
>
> insomnia returning (in spite of 100 nocte Seroquel), anxiety, fright, depression, claustrophic feelings....not good.
>
> Should i use another med to help get off?
>
> i have tones -- neurotin, stelazine, topomax, amisulpride, remeron, amitryptaline, etc -- i have a pharmacy at home....
>
> Please give advice...quick
>
>
> ace
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 9:14:23
In reply to Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal...., posted by ace on April 3, 2005, at 23:01:10
Dear Acie,
Do you have to withdraw so fast? I think you need to do a more gradual taper.
I still don't understand why you're coming off Nardil to be honest- it was still working for you. It seems very risky to come off it and sacrafice your mental health in the hope that the Nardil will make you euphoric when you restart it.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by rod on April 4, 2005, at 11:15:59
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal.... » ace, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 9:14:23
> Dear Acie,
>
> Do you have to withdraw so fast? I think you need to do a more gradual taper.
>
> I still don't understand why you're coming off Nardil to be honest- it was still working for you. It seems very risky to come off it and sacrafice your mental health in the hope that the Nardil will make you euphoric when you restart it.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.I also dont understand what you are doing. Is the craving for the drug induced euphoria really so strong? Honestly, thats not what the drugs are made for.
Forget about the euphoria and focus on you OCD and so on...
I guess you know which term describes people with your behaviour...If I think back, you once said about Tramadol: It gives me the most joyful high.....
And recently, you wrote you are using it from time to time..
What for?, to treat medical conditions like OCD?, which definately deserves psychotropic drug treatment, but being not euphoric is not a reason to take prescription drugs..Ask yourself this two questions:
What do I really want?
and
What am I doing?
to "heal" crippling OCD and social phobia or just to get high... ?maybe this helps a little..
Thats on the border to being "uncivil", but I have an urge to actually help you alittle by maybe opening you eyes..
whatever
bye
Roland
Posted by rod on April 4, 2005, at 11:17:08
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal.... » ed_uk, posted by rod on April 4, 2005, at 11:15:59
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 12:17:57
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal.... » ed_uk, posted by rod on April 4, 2005, at 11:15:59
Hi Ace,
I hope you weren't upset by my earlier post :-) I just don't want you to get ill again, that's all. I remember that you stopped Nardil before and got ill.
AFAIK, you were stable on Nardil (although it was not providing the dramatic effects that it once did). A relapse into depression and anxiety could be devastating though, it could have a dramatic impact on your life. I think you are at University, how could you continue your studies if you got ill?
I don't want you to think that I'm lecturing- I'm not. Does your pdoc really think that it's a good idea to discontinue that Nardil? I know the initial euphoria felt great but you might have to suffer months of illness if you d/c the Nardil. What if you restarted the Nardil and it wasn't euphoric? Months of illness are a major price to pay!
RE The dental surgery.... Local anesthetics containing epinephrine do not significantly interact with Nardil, I would be more concerned if you were on a TCA. If you need a GA, you *will* need to find an experienced and knowledgeable anesthetist but that shouldn't be too hard. Read up on the drug interactions and check everything that they give you!
If you do stop the Nardil, how likely do you think you are to relapse? What does you pdoc say about this? I was thinking that you'd suffered chronic mental health problems before you went on Nardil. If you're convinced that you're unlikely to relapse, by all means d/c the Nardil- but do it slowly!! Nardil can cause some very unpleasant withdrawal symptoms if you taper too fast!
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 17:28:23
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal..Ace, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 12:17:57
Ace, I don't understand either. No dental surgery is worth the positive effects you have on Nardil. I think you were trying to "be a good sport" by saying it could work better when you again take it. To make yourself feel better emotionally when they told you to dc it. You hear time and time again on this Board how a drug can stop working if you stop it and try it again. i know my old pdoc used to say, when I was on xanax, that if it stopped working he would put me on something else and after a while put me back on it and it would work. Well guess what it stopped working and has never worked again. I don't want you to suffer. You've been doing so well. Talk with your pdoc. It wasn't him who told you to dc it. Fondly,Phillipa
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:23:17
In reply to Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal...., posted by ace on April 3, 2005, at 23:01:10
> I went down from 60mg to...
>
> 45mg for 3 days - no probs
> now im at 30mg second day...
>
> insomnia returning (in spite of 100 nocte Seroquel), anxiety, fright, depression, claustrophic feelings....not good.
>
> Should i use another med to help get off?
>
> i have tones -- neurotin, stelazine, topomax, amisulpride, remeron, amitryptaline, etc -- i have a pharmacy at home....
>
> Please give advice...quick
>
>
> aceAce--I feel your pain. Going off Nardil was one of the worst experiences of my life - and I know that's not what you want to hear. What helped me was opiates - but it's hard to get a prescription. Benzos also helped. What's your next med when your off the Nardil? As soon as you can, start the new med - the faster the better - trust me.
Hang in there
Jerry
Posted by ace on April 4, 2005, at 22:23:21
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal..Ace, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 12:17:57
> Hi Ace,
>
> I hope you weren't upset by my earlier post :-) I just don't want you to get ill again, that's all. I remember that you stopped Nardil before and got ill.No. not at all mate. Your post was very much appreciated. It takes a lot to offend me! And you certainly didn't!
>
> AFAIK, you were stable on Nardil (although it was not providing the dramatic effects that it once did). A relapse into depression and anxiety could be devastating though, it could have a dramatic impact on your life. I think you are at University, how could you continue your studies if you got ill?I know what your saying mate. And you are correct. I am very scared and know what I am getting myself into. I took extra benzo's the other day, and I vaguely remember my doctor saying we have to use Demerol -- oh no!!!! It is just dentistry work -- there is some other aspect which I cannot anatomically or physiologically explain, but it has it's genesis in molar pathology.
>
> I don't want you to think that I'm lecturing- I'm not.You are free to say whatever man! You are not lecturing me, you are kindly trying to help me.
Does your pdoc really think that it's a good idea to discontinue that Nardil?
He says I must, due to demerol (and I havent seen him in a coherent manner to see why we must use Demerol.
I know the initial euphoria felt great but you might have to suffer months of illness if you d/c the Nardil. What if you restarted the Nardil and it wasn't euphoric? Months of illness are a major price to pay!
Well, the doc says a change to risperidone should help mitigate any huge withdrawal....he also has given me some back up clomipramine in case...he also suggested remeron. He said that he is positive that, given a long break (4 months) the euporic feeling will return AND STAY -- given that I don't stop and start it again, like I stupidly did. That's why he wants the extended delay. Also, I have plenty of drugs by my side I can use, but he says try to limit them, so as to 'refresh' the brain for Nardil to re-enter -- he believe the post-synaptic receptors have just been screwed around with too much.
>
> RE The dental surgery.... Local anesthetics containing epinephrine do not significantly interact with Nardil, I would be more concerned if you were on a TCA. If you need a GA, you *will* need to find an experienced and knowledgeable anesthetist but that shouldn't be too hard. Read up on the drug interactions and check everything that they give you!
>
> If you do stop the Nardil, how likely do you think you are to relapse?If I am very catious and sensible I should avoid a huge w/drawal. That means, coming off slow, going back to a higher dose if a lower dose is too painful etc, and using some "band aid" meds. He says take it SLOW and cautious.
What does you pdoc say about this? I was thinking that you'd suffered chronic mental health problems before you went on Nardil.
Extreme and atypical symptoms which were debilitating to every aspect of my life -- couldn't leave house without feeling absolute fright due to derealization panic, phobic anxiety, claustrophobic anxiety, etc. And ofcourse depression.
If you're convinced that you're unlikely to relapse, by all means d/c the Nardil- but do it slowly!! Nardil can cause some very unpleasant withdrawal symptoms if you taper too fast!
I am going to be as vigilant as possible and keep things slow and steady.God Bless you for your help friend, and I wish you much happiness....pray for me!
Ace (Andrew)
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 22:27:50
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal..Ace » ed_uk, posted by ace on April 4, 2005, at 22:23:21
Nardil + Demerol can be deadly. However, morphine, dilauded and others are fine. I was in the hospital for encephalitis for 4 days and they pumped me full of dilauded AND I was on Nardil. Can't your dentist use a different opiate?
Posted by ace on April 4, 2005, at 22:28:14
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal..Ace, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 17:28:23
Guys I'm too anhedoniac and lifeless to answer any more -- but i love you all for your help....I am going to my doctor right now, and seeing about this situation.....maybe we will briefly go back up to 45mg then try 30mg again...or use a "band-aid" med at 30mg.
Keep writing guys -- you REALLY help. I feel bad that sometimes I can't reply, but know that I really really appreciate your advice, help, and caring. In summary, you guys collectively are the best pdoc I have ever seen....
Ace, who is never giving in....
Posted by ace on April 4, 2005, at 22:35:07
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal.... » ed_uk, posted by rod on April 4, 2005, at 11:15:59
Thats not uncivil. Thats you trying to help. I just have to get off it too for the operation....and we will have an extended washout period to try to regain the euphoric effects -- which my doc is sure will happen.
Thanks so much mate, and I understand what you mean....I DO want to get high too much, but I also have this operation where I have to get off Nardil -- my doc thought, "well we might as well extend the Nardil time-off period, to get back ultimate effects -- that's wen I saw you were SO well and happy"
Thanks heaps mate and God Bless,
Ace -- Andrew
> > Dear Acie,
> >
> > Do you have to withdraw so fast? I think you need to do a more gradual taper.
> >
> > I still don't understand why you're coming off Nardil to be honest- it was still working for you. It seems very risky to come off it and sacrafice your mental health in the hope that the Nardil will make you euphoric when you restart it.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Ed.
>
> I also dont understand what you are doing. Is the craving for the drug induced euphoria really so strong? Honestly, thats not what the drugs are made for.
> Forget about the euphoria and focus on you OCD and so on...
> I guess you know which term describes people with your behaviour...
>
> If I think back, you once said about Tramadol: It gives me the most joyful high.....
>
> And recently, you wrote you are using it from time to time..
> What for?, to treat medical conditions like OCD?, which definately deserves psychotropic drug treatment, but being not euphoric is not a reason to take prescription drugs..
>
> Ask yourself this two questions:
>
> What do I really want?
>
> and
>
> What am I doing?
>
>
> to "heal" crippling OCD and social phobia or just to get high... ?
>
> maybe this helps a little..
>
> Thats on the border to being "uncivil", but I have an urge to actually help you alittle by maybe opening you eyes..
>
> whatever
>
> bye
> Roland
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 23:20:22
In reply to Thanks heaps guys, too depressed for more replies, posted by ace on April 4, 2005, at 22:28:14
We love you Ace. Hopefully your pdoc will up your dose. And I speak for all of us when I say that you are still THE NARDIL CHAMP!!!!! Fondly, Phillipa XXX
Posted by ed_uk on April 5, 2005, at 7:49:31
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal..Ace » ed_uk, posted by ace on April 4, 2005, at 22:23:21
Hello Andrew,
>we have to use Demerol.....
I am absolutely convinced that they would not need to use Demerol! Many hospitals in the UK have banned Demerol completely because it is more toxic than other opioids. I am sure that you could negotiate an alternative opioid- if indeed you needed one, which you probably wouldn't.
To be honest, Demerol has poor efficacy in the treatment of post-op dental pain. NSAIDs such as ibuprofen are generally much more effective for this type of pain. High doses of ibuprofen are generally very effective for post-op dental pain, 600-800mg ibuprofen is generally more effective than 10mg im/sc morphine. Post-op dental pain isn't usually very responsive to opioids for some reason. Ibuprofen + acetaminophen/paracetamol can be used. If an opioid is necessary, there are *many* alternative to pethidine/meperidine/Demerol.
>Well, the doc says a change to risperidone should help mitigate any huge withdrawal....he also has given me some back up clomipramine in case...he also suggested remeron........
But have you tried these drugs in the past? Do they help you?
I know you are not listening so...
GOOD LUCK ACE!!!
Ed.
Posted by TomG on April 5, 2005, at 15:42:26
In reply to Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal...., posted by ace on April 3, 2005, at 23:01:10
Ace I want to talk to you about your leftover Amisulpride. xxx
Posted by ace on April 5, 2005, at 19:56:51
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal...., posted by TomG on April 5, 2005, at 15:42:26
> Ace I want to talk to you about your leftover Amisulpride. xxx
I have plenty left and can access more in whatever dose I want -- I am my own doctor!
xxx
Posted by ace on April 5, 2005, at 20:00:04
In reply to Re: Thanks heaps guys, too depressed for more replies » ace, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 23:20:22
> We love you Ace. Hopefully your pdoc will up your dose. And I speak for all of us when I say that you are still THE NARDIL CHAMP!!!!! Fondly, Phillipa XXX
You are so cool Phillipa!!!
Thankyou from the bottom of my heart for your sentiments...and I wish you much happiness.
And yes -- I AM STILL -- AND ALWAYS WILL BE -- THE NARDIL CHAMPION!!!
My doc upped my Nardil to 45mg -- 30mg was too low-- huge relapse...he wants me to take it real sloww, so I will go back down to 30mg in a few days....just be real slow
You rule, and peace to you, Phillipa,
Your friend,
Ace (Andrew)
Posted by ace on April 5, 2005, at 20:02:00
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal.... » TomG, posted by ace on April 5, 2005, at 19:56:51
> > Ace I want to talk to you about your leftover Amisulpride. xxx
>
> I have plenty left and can access more in whatever dose I want -- I am my own doctor!
>
> xxxI also should say, my MD helps and advises, but at the end of the day, it's my decision. And any psych drug I want to try I can, except Clonazepam -- proven epilepsy you must need in Australia to get this...
Ace
>
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on April 5, 2005, at 20:14:40
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal.... » ace, posted by ace on April 5, 2005, at 20:02:00
We're still with you Ace! Feel better okay? Fondly, phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 5, 2005, at 20:19:14
In reply to Re: You are so GREAT and you RULE!!! » Phillipa, posted by ace on April 5, 2005, at 20:00:04
Ace, That was so Sweet! Thank-you! I am sooooo glad your pdoc upped your Nardil. May you be the CHAMP forever! And Peace to you too. Fondly, Phillipa xxx
Posted by ace on April 5, 2005, at 22:54:54
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal.. ?ace, posted by ed_uk on April 5, 2005, at 7:49:31
I agree. But my doctor is being vague. And it's wierd, Because i KNOW he likes me being on Nardil.....but for some reason, he think I mUST have to use Demerol...I have done research on this, and see the use of Demerol questionable at best. It's been a while since o have seen my doc, but i will go back and sort this out....
Regardless, he wants me to have a 4 month break from Nardil to replenish the 'magical' effects -- he has never seen such a transformation in a patient before, and is SURE that a 4 month break would regain the amazing effects. He is very insistent...and thinks that, provided I don't play with my dose or start and stop after the magical effects have regained, the magical (i say that a lot!) effects will stay 10 years plus....
Thanks mate,
Ace
Posted by ace on April 5, 2005, at 22:55:31
In reply to Re: You are so GREAT and you RULE!!!, posted by Phillipa on April 5, 2005, at 20:19:14
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2005, at 23:58:49
In reply to Re: Help! I'm in pain.....Nardil withdrawal.... » TomG, posted by ace on April 5, 2005, at 19:56:51
> Ace I want to talk to you about your leftover Amisulpride. xxx
>
> TomG> xxx
>
> acePlease don't use this site to exchange information that could be used to import into the US medication that hasn't been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
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