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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 53. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
Please, PB's
I am looking for reasurance and advice from any long term 15-20+ year Regular anxiety medication users,-benzos, for a multiply diagnosed,(several specialists) sever medical condition, to help form part of treatment for this condition.I'm Sick of hearing the benzo 'horror stories'.of withdrawal hell etc..
do benzos continue to be usefull over many years?,
or have you found they exhasabate the problem.We are talking about a sever life-effecting condition, GAD, others, since late teens.If withdrawal from anxiety medication was acheived, what would be the point?, if the condition persists and interfers with QOL
Any feed back from revelant persons greatly appreciated.
Thanks to all.
Posted by smith562 on April 3, 2005, at 22:19:45
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
I have been using klonopin for about 9 years for GAD and severe panic disorder. Oddly, my experience has been the opposite of what is touted in the literature/psychiatric textbooks:
1. I have actually decreased my dose overtime (started at 1.5mgs ... now 0.5 mgs)
2. I can concentrate much better now that the baseline anxiety is lowered
3. It is the only medication that worked for panic ... all antidepressants worsened my panic/anxiety at therapeutic doses and length of trialsSometimes I wonder if the textbooks and pdoc have been brainwashed by the SSRI companies
Hope this helped
Smith
> Please, PB's
> I am looking for reasurance and advice from any long term 15-20+ year Regular anxiety medication users,-benzos, for a multiply diagnosed,(several specialists) sever medical condition, to help form part of treatment for this condition.
>
> I'm Sick of hearing the benzo 'horror stories'.of withdrawal hell etc..
> do benzos continue to be usefull over many years?,
> or have you found they exhasabate the problem.
>
> We are talking about a sever life-effecting condition, GAD, others, since late teens.If withdrawal from anxiety medication was acheived, what would be the point?, if the condition persists and interfers with QOL
>
> Any feed back from revelant persons greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all.
Posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2005, at 22:28:23
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
I would be delighted to respond to your Thread, and actually have some first hand knowledge. I have been on benzos for 35yrs or so for what had started out as panic attacks. At first I self-medicated with beer, so I at least could sleep at night. My anxiety was all day long too. Finally the pdoc I saw put me on valium 5mg three times a day I believe. When that didn't fully work he added meprobomate 450mg. Well it worked and soon after I was back taking care of my three young children and carrying out all my responsibilities. As the anxiety decreased I was able on my own to give up the meprobomate[which I now know is supposed to be highly addictive], without any side-effects. Back then you had open-ended RX for benzos so I could fill my Rx whenever I wanted. Afterall it was the early 70's. I kept gradually cutting down . That pdoc lost his license. But I could get the meds, which I never abused. I went to another pdoc when a lot of stresses entered my life, divorce, nursing school. He had me on very low doses of ativan. Again no abuse. I moved to VA Beach, and as i was quite friendly with him by then he asked me to see a pdoc he had gone to medical school with. I keep taking low dose benzos. At one point I was on xanax. I could always maintain a social drinking lifestyle. When I met my current husband I moved to NC and saw a new pdoc for RX. I wanted to get off the .l25 of xanax I was on. He laughed. But, if I stopped it my anxiety returned. Then the birth of the SSRI's and none of them worked for me as well as thyroid failure. In and out of the hospital with pdocs always trying to find an AD that worked for me. They don't. Now I have an older pdoc who is comfortable with the benzos and I'm again on valium a total of l5mg a day. No, you will not take more than you need to control your anxiety unless you are an addictive type. They are the only drugs I trust for not having any longlasting side-effects. And yes, I have gone off of them with no problem. Just slowly tapering down. Sorry this is so long but I really want to reassure you. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2005, at 22:45:55
In reply to Re: Does 9 years count? » paulbwell, posted by smith562 on April 3, 2005, at 22:19:45
Never found an SSRI that worked for anxiety. There are a lot of brainwashed pdocs out there. Unfortunately there are also a lot of abusers out there who have given the meds a bad name. I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't respond. The pdocs make you feel guilty when you don't. I think it should be required for the pdocs to try all new meds before Rxing to their pts. Then maybe we'd see a big change! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 23:18:15
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2005, at 22:28:23
> I would be delighted to respond to your Thread, and actually have some first hand knowledge. I have been on benzos for 35yrs or so for what had started out as panic attacks. At first I self-medicated with beer, so I at least could sleep at night. My anxiety was all day long too. Finally the pdoc I saw put me on valium 5mg three times a day I believe. When that didn't fully work he added meprobomate 450mg. Well it worked and soon after I was back taking care of my three young children and carrying out all my responsibilities. As the anxiety decreased I was able on my own to give up the meprobomate[which I now know is supposed to be highly addictive], without any side-effects. Back then you had open-ended RX for benzos so I could fill my Rx whenever I wanted. Afterall it was the early 70's. I kept gradually cutting down . That pdoc lost his license. But I could get the meds, which I never abused. I went to another pdoc when a lot of stresses entered my life, divorce, nursing school. He had me on very low doses of ativan. Again no abuse. I moved to VA Beach, and as i was quite friendly with him by then he asked me to see a pdoc he had gone to medical school with. I keep taking low dose benzos. At one point I was on xanax. I could always maintain a social drinking lifestyle. When I met my current husband I moved to NC and saw a new pdoc for RX. I wanted to get off the .l25 of xanax I was on. He laughed. But, if I stopped it my anxiety returned. Then the birth of the SSRI's and none of them worked for me as well as thyroid failure. In and out of the hospital with pdocs always trying to find an AD that worked for me. They don't. Now I have an older pdoc who is comfortable with the benzos and I'm again on valium a total of l5mg a day. No, you will not take more than you need to control your anxiety unless you are an addictive type. They are the only drugs I trust for not having any longlasting side-effects. And yes, I have gone off of them with no problem. Just slowly tapering down. Sorry this is so long but I really want to reassure you. Fondly, Phillipa
God bless you Phillipa,
my fellow dog lover. no it was not to long, and you DID reasure me thanks xx, but paragraphs would help :).
I'm in my early 30's and been on benzos daily for 2 years, after many years/wasted years of excessive/needless anxiety, whatever else disorder.
I have done the SSRI merry-go-round ride-no go.
I ran out of Clonaz 2mgs day, for 1 week, and wanted to die, 2mgs and 2 hrs later I wanted to live again.
I may be a 'lifer' on these, or other meds, maybe not, but you have reasured me (35 years?) that whatever, pills, I feel comfortable taking, and which give me the dignity to get through the day,(and night) with some pride I will take,
althought we all know that inner voice when it comes time for a pill.DAM thoes anti-benzo people, organisations, with their scare mongering, (one told me recently that benzo medications are nothing but alcohol in a pill, and I am basically a dry-Alcoholic!)ha! putting fear into already sensitive, often fragile people, who just wish to live a normal life.
The real 'experts' on these meds are the people who take them, and for many years, like yourself, who I will listen to ahead of many 'experts'
Thank you Phillipa
Posted by rvanson on April 3, 2005, at 23:19:09
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
Been on Xanax for most of 20 years.
Best overall medication for anxiety that I know of.
Withdrawals S/E's are less severe then with Effexor by a mile.
> Please, PB's
> I am looking for reasurance and advice from any long term 15-20+ year Regular anxiety medication users,-benzos, for a multiply diagnosed,(several specialists) sever medical condition, to help form part of treatment for this condition.
>
> I'm Sick of hearing the benzo 'horror stories'.of withdrawal hell etc..
> do benzos continue to be usefull over many years?,
> or have you found they exhasabate the problem.
>
> We are talking about a sever life-effecting condition, GAD, others, since late teens.If withdrawal from anxiety medication was acheived, what would be the point?, if the condition persists and interfers with QOL
>
> Any feed back from revelant persons greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all.
Posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 23:32:30
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
Yes, I have been on clonazopam for 12 years. Same dosage - 4 mg. I use it as a mood stabiliser though and not for anxiety. The stuff doesn't even make me drowsy.
I did go through withdrawal from it once and it was hell. I had taken an OD and fired my pdoc (then re-hired her). I went to the ER to try and get a script and they laughed at me. They said I needed to learn a lesson and get off the stuff. I was dizzy, throwing up and had a seizure. I crawled to my GP who gave me a script for a few pills and I was fine. Then I reconciled with my pdoc and went back to my 4 mg dosage.
If you go off it you will feel sick as a dog. But you can taper it slowly over several months or do it cold turkey and suffer for two weeks. But don't expect to be capable of doing anything during those 2 weeks.
Maxime
Posted by alienatari on April 3, 2005, at 23:46:27
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 23:32:30
I cant believe they did that to you in hospital. They let you have a seizure from withdrawal? God, that is awful.
Im not addicted to benzo's but I agree they are great for anxiety, been on 17 antidepressants and only the benzo's work for me. Now i take ativan every few days (doc wont let me take them every day unfortunatly). And I agree with what was posted above, the real experts are the people who have been on these meds for years and know what its like to finally have some relief. SSRI's are utter crap for anxiety, well for me anyway, I guess they might work for some people.
Take care
Posted by FredPotter on April 3, 2005, at 23:54:18
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2005, at 22:28:23
Hey Phillipa same here except it's coming up to 41 years! Nyaaah! First Librium, then Valium, Ativan, Oxazepam and finally Xanax. Have come off when I needed to. I think I may have built resistance though. It's difficult to know as I don't have panic attacks any more only more general anxiety
Fred
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 0:03:55
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » Phillipa, posted by FredPotter on April 3, 2005, at 23:54:18
> Hey Phillipa same here except it's coming up to 41 years! Nyaaah! First Librium, then Valium, Ativan, Oxazepam and finally Xanax. Have come off when I needed to. I think I may have built resistance though. It's difficult to know as I don't have panic attacks any more only more general anxiety
> FredHI Ya Fred
1963 you got put on a benzo?-Wow valiums introduction!
What advice would an 'expert' on these meds-like you-have for some one whos been on em' for 2 years?-me.
Whats worked the best for you? a combo of several Benzos?
A high dose of 1?
Do you feel after 41! years you have been harmed by them-or protected from the ravages of anxiety?
Any feedback great.
Cheers
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 0:23:12
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by Maxime on April 3, 2005, at 23:32:30
I was once in a W/D unit for a few days when my thyroid went out of wack and they didn't know what it was. The pdocs I worked with liked me so they "hid " me out over the weekend. The added bonus was they withdrew me from xanax and alchol [when I used to drink] with valium in decreasing doseages. In 4 days I was on my last dose of 5mg of valium and felt great. So, like a jerk I went back to my old pdoc and he put me back on xanax. But what I saw when I was there were the people had l or 2 bad days using the valium and then were fine. Most were chronic abusers and one girl was drinking a fifth and taking 8mg of xanax at a time, daily. She had a rough time and was still there when everyone else left. The others went into a 28day program for addicts. They certainly aren't like the horror stories I've read here about coming off AD's. Now that I think of it I haven't taken remeron in about 5 days, and didn't even notice it. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 0:30:09
In reply to Phillipa, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 23:18:15
Paulbwell, Thank-you for starting the best Thread I've been able to relate to in a long time. Dry alcholic my ***. Just because alchol and benzos target GABA doesn't mean they're the same. The only people who need beware are those whose chemistry is prone to addiction. What will happen to us when all the older pdocs are gone? And Fred, nice to meet someone who must be at least my age on PBabble! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Ritch on April 4, 2005, at 10:45:39
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
> Please, PB's
> I am looking for reasurance and advice from any long term 15-20+ year Regular anxiety medication users,-benzos, for a multiply diagnosed,(several specialists) sever medical condition, to help form part of treatment for this condition.
>
> I'm Sick of hearing the benzo 'horror stories'.of withdrawal hell etc..
> do benzos continue to be usefull over many years?,
> or have you found they exhasabate the problem.
>
> We are talking about a sever life-effecting condition, GAD, others, since late teens.If withdrawal from anxiety medication was acheived, what would be the point?, if the condition persists and interfers with QOL
>
> Any feed back from revelant persons greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all.I took Ativan and then Valium or Librium for about ten years and I never needed more than 5mg twice daily of Valium when I was on it (usually 2.5mg twice daily chronically was my dose). I was then off benzos and on Prozac for several more years (and endured panic attacks). I've been on clonazepam since the late '90's .5-1.0mg and it effectively blocks panic despite continued usage-no tolerance to the therapeutic symptoms it's designed to treat. I don't like taking 1.0mg though-I get a little stupid and depressed if I stay at that dosage. Fortunately, I don't need to for more than a few days at a time.
Posted by FredPotter on April 4, 2005, at 15:42:07
In reply to Hi Fred, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 0:03:55
Hi there It was actually 1964 and the first one was Librium. Which didn't do much. None of them did much for my anxiety states until Xanax, and that may be because I believed in it. No I don't believe they've harmed me, but who knows?
Posted by FredPotter on April 4, 2005, at 15:49:19
In reply to Re: Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 0:30:09
Hi Phillipa yes I'm ancient (58 actually). After several years I discovered alcohol took away my terrible anxiety attacks completely - for a while. It became a big problem over the years and eventually I went to a rehab unit for 5 weeks based on 12 steps. I was told Xanax was like solid alcohol. What nonsense I thought. Alcohol gives a buzz. What sort of high can people get from a benzo? Beats me. I gave up booze 2 years ago. I'm generally much better, but no drug seems to properly control the anxiety
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 17:00:00
In reply to Re: Phillipa » Phillipa, posted by FredPotter on April 4, 2005, at 15:49:19
Well we're the same age. Librium didn't do anything for me either. I believe I took it a short while. That's probably when my Dad went on it for anxiety. He was a beer drinker. Later in life, before motrin was over the counter, his doc told him he wouldn't Rx it for him unless he stopped drinking. He did, and He died a couple of years later. I too, felt much better when I used to drink beer. It makes you wonder, they take away all your fun, you become depressed, and then life is not worth living. So are the benzos the answer or should be go back further to ETOH. BTW, I had no trouble giving up beer. I just don't see any point in going to a party or out to eat if you can't join in with everyone else. The docs scared me so badly about stopping breathing when I was asleep, that I'm terrified of a beer now. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 18:32:11
In reply to Re: Hi Fred » paulbwell, posted by FredPotter on April 4, 2005, at 15:42:07
> Hi there It was actually 1964 and the first one was Librium. Which didn't do much. None of them did much for my anxiety states until Xanax, and that may be because I believed in it. No I don't believe they've harmed me, but who knows?
Hi Fred,
Thanks very much for replying!
I'v heard one persons report of Librium -"like walking on air"
No benzos did much for you?- even if the dose was higher?-i'd imagine you *may* have been tried on some high doses to address this? and still no?
If these earlier benzos failed to help MUCH? then did you receive threapy with Barbiturates? or other anxiolytics? did this help?
surely something must have helped? especially back in the far more benevelent, prescribing 1960s?
After only 2 years, some Docs have tried to get me to community Drug and Alc organisations for "detox/weening", from-my medical use of medications-designed to treat the medical conditions-specialists have said I ail from.--crazy--
Has this been pushed/sugessted for you?.I have been perscribed Xanax, in the past, but only in low doses: 0.25mcg 3x day it sure does have a fast and short action!, maybe a higher/frequent dose would be more threaputic?
I'd rather take some minor memory impairment,(Benzos) than health damaging Anxiety anyday, or zombie numbness of most ssri's
Thanks.
Cheers P
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:07:10
In reply to Re: Hi Fred, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 18:32:11
Hi!
Just out of interest, have you ever tried Nardil for your anxiety?
Ed.
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 19:11:30
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:07:10
no
would it be usefull for ADHD. mood?anything like Imipramine?
Have you
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:44:02
In reply to Re: Hi Paul, posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 19:11:30
Hi P!
I just wondered whether you tried it because you said that you still suffer from anxiety despite the diazepam. What sort of anxiety do you suffer from? Do you have a diagnosis? What makes you anxious? What do you worry/panic about? What symptoms do you have? (Sorry!!!)
>would it be usefull for ADHD. mood?
It's often effective as an antidepressant. It might be somewhat effective for ADHD, Parnate might be better than Nardil. Combining MAOIs with stimulants can sometimes cause severe hypertension. Other people don't experience this effect however and can combine them quite happily. If you were on an MAOI, you'd initially have to take a *very* low dose of a stimulant, you blood pressure would need to be carefully monitored.
>anything like Imipramine?
No, it's nothing like imipramine- a TCA. Nardil and Parnate are MAOIs, hence the special diet- no cheese etc. Have you tried imipramine?
>Have you?
No. I just wondered whether you'd benefit since you mentioned that you'd tried a few SSRIs with no success. Nardil is often very effective for anxiety. What other treatments have you tried for your anxiety? eg. BuSpar etc.
Ed.
Posted by jerrympls on April 4, 2005, at 20:25:38
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
> Please, PB's
> I am looking for reasurance and advice from any long term 15-20+ year Regular anxiety medication users,-benzos, for a multiply diagnosed,(several specialists) sever medical condition, to help form part of treatment for this condition.
>
> I'm Sick of hearing the benzo 'horror stories'.of withdrawal hell etc..
> do benzos continue to be usefull over many years?,
> or have you found they exhasabate the problem.
>
> We are talking about a sever life-effecting condition, GAD, others, since late teens.If withdrawal from anxiety medication was acheived, what would be the point?, if the condition persists and interfers with QOL
>
> Any feed back from revelant persons greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all.HI Paul
I've been on and off benzos for 13 years. They have ALWAYS worked and I have NEVER EVER EVER had withdrawl from them. I've grown tolerant to their sedating effects, but they continue to quell my anxiety.
Jerry
Posted by jay on April 4, 2005, at 20:33:02
In reply to ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS, posted by paulbwell on April 3, 2005, at 21:06:46
> Please, PB's
> I am looking for reasurance and advice from any long term 15-20+ year Regular anxiety medication users,-benzos, for a multiply diagnosed,(several specialists) sever medical condition, to help form part of treatment for this condition.
>
> I'm Sick of hearing the benzo 'horror stories'.of withdrawal hell etc..
> do benzos continue to be usefull over many years?,
> or have you found they exhasabate the problem.
>
> We are talking about a sever life-effecting condition, GAD, others, since late teens.If withdrawal from anxiety medication was acheived, what would be the point?, if the condition persists and interfers with QOL
>
> Any feed back from revelant persons greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all.You can count me and my Dad in on this. We are both around our 11th year. I've taken all kinds, highest to lowest doses, stopped right away...never had ANY problems. I think what people call 'withdrawl' is when they just use only a benzo, get depressed on it (as is a normal side effect), and don't know what to do or to turn to when they stop it cold turkey. Anyhow..people will hate me for saying that...but I believe it's the truth.
Best,
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2005, at 20:39:15
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by jay on April 4, 2005, at 20:33:02
If a person has panic attacks and GAD that are with them 24/7, then I don't feel benzos are a cause of depression. They relieve the anxiety so you can resume your life. Panic can paralyze you. If you take a benzo and don't really need one than I feel it might depress you. Klonopin is known to depress some people me included. While for others is a fine medication. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 21:40:34
In reply to Re: Hi Paul » paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 19:44:02
> Hi P!
>
> I just wondered whether you tried it because you said that you still suffer from anxiety despite the diazepam. What sort of anxiety do you suffer from? Do you have a diagnosis? What makes you anxious? What do you worry/panic about? What symptoms do you have? (Sorry!!!)
>
> >would it be usefull for ADHD. mood?
>
> It's often effective as an antidepressant. It might be somewhat effective for ADHD, Parnate might be better than Nardil. Combining MAOIs with stimulants can sometimes cause severe hypertension. Other people don't experience this effect however and can combine them quite happily. If you were on an MAOI, you'd initially have to take a *very* low dose of a stimulant, you blood pressure would need to be carefully monitored.
>
> >anything like Imipramine?
>
> No, it's nothing like imipramine- a TCA. Nardil and Parnate are MAOIs, hence the special diet- no cheese etc. Have you tried imipramine?
>
> >Have you?
>
> No. I just wondered whether you'd benefit since you mentioned that you'd tried a few SSRIs with no success. Nardil is often very effective for anxiety. What other treatments have you tried for your anxiety? eg. BuSpar etc.
>
> Ed.Man you are 1 f**king knowledgeable dude for a 20yo!!!!.
but i would have been to if this internet thing had been around since the early 1990s.do you freak your frends/acquantances out with pb stuff?
All i knew at 20 was that there was something different bout me, where I tried to live like my m8s but suffered for it, and had terrible anxiety, and difficulty keeping a job. I was constantly searching for the reason why I was like I was. I SUFFERED for MANY years untreated, while my life stalled.
I was put on Xanax by a Psydoc over 2 years ago for GAD-panic.
I prefered the sedation from the Diazepam thought-more predictable, thought as stated ED, I'm tolarant to the sadation now.Nothing MAKES me anxious or panic-well Flying maybe.
I tried Imipramine-gained 8kgs in 4 weeks and fainted twice.
I hope I answered you, forgotten the rest.
You obviously have an interest in Pharmacy/Medication/drugs---like me, follow it, my frend, you will be unhappy doing anything else, i think.
Til nxt time
Posted by paulbwell on April 4, 2005, at 21:44:53
In reply to Re: ANY LONG TERM BENZO USERS? 10-20+YEARS » paulbwell, posted by jay on April 4, 2005, at 20:33:02
I seem to have something of a habit of starting long threads. I wonder if this is good or not.
p
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