![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 66. Go back in thread:
Posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 17:28:50
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2005, at 17:15:27
We can go to any hospital we choose -- IF we are either insured with a company that will cover it, or we can prove that we can self-pay.
For the tens of millions of Americans who do not have health insurance, access to medical care -- let alone psychiatric care -- is not as easy as "choice."
Posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 17:36:38
In reply to My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 12:50:41
By the way, when you write that your doctor can't help you, are you fully aware that the deficit lies on his side of the net? It's not that YOU are such a problem that no one and nothing can help you, no matter how much it may feel that way. It means that HE does not have the knowledge, the tools, the experience to help you.
I hope that you aren't blaming yourself for his failure.
Be well.
Posted by banga on March 29, 2005, at 17:55:34
In reply to Another thought » Maxime, posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 17:36:38
Getting help and finding what works is a hell journey. It sucks. I hope it does help you to feel less alone, as most on this board have gone through something similar at one time or another.....
But I truly wanted to jump in to also say what a great couple of posts here written to you on this thread. Collectively, members of this board (barring a few outliers) constitute one darn great therapist and psychopharmacologist. Sort of a large multilimned creature with many many heads...
Posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2005, at 18:14:22
In reply to Not exactly true » Phillipa, posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 17:28:50
Sorry Racer if my post was not entirely clear. What I meant was that if you were in really bad shape, or needed a referral, a hospital could admit you and help you get medicaid if you qualified, or refer you to a mental health clinic where they base what you pay on income. I know one of the pdocs I saw, took medicaid pts and they only paid $3 a visit. I was behind one at his office when they paid. If you are of danger to yourself or others either psychiatrically or medically, an ER is obligated to tx you regardless of money. The private psych hospital does indeed require insurance or self-pay. Was this any better? I hope so. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 18:29:53
In reply to Re: Not exactly true, posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2005, at 18:14:22
Posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2005, at 18:43:26
In reply to That's a soapbox of mine, thanks for explaining (nm) » Phillipa, posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 18:29:53
I can understand why! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 19:19:18
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 15:40:33
I know you mean well Racer, and I am sorry when I get frustrated with people who are only trying to help. It makes me feel worse about myself then I add on more guilt and loath myself even more.
I know more about eating disorders and depression than anyone without a med degree should know. I was blessed and cursed with a photographic memory and an IQ of 182. When I was teaching at a university I could spot plagiarism and be able to write in the name of the book and which page it was taken from without looking it up. So believe me, I have READ a lot of med journals etc. and I know the names of the researchers and their studies.
However, another thing to consider is which came first? For me it was the depression as a child which later turned out to be bipolar illness. The eating disorder came later. This indicates that my depression is biochemical and not brought on by the ED. Although I fully know that if you starve yourself you are starving your brain. A starved brain is a depressed brain.
My 182 IQ brain knows all this. My anorexic brain does not. The two do not seem to talk much to each other because the anorexic brain thinks that the other part of the brain is lying to it and fooling it to tell my "hunger center" to eat something. It's like having the little cartoon devil and angel on each side.
My doctor is not deficient when it comes to treating mood disoders. He has been a psychiatrist for over 40 years. He knows all the meds and different ways to use them and is not afraid to try something that might be considered contraindicated. In January I couldn't pay for my Trileptal and Adderall because I was broke. I went through withdrawal and he phone the pharmacy and told them to charge the meds to his VISA. He wouldn't let me pay him back. When it comes to eating disorders he doesn't know jack sh*t in my opinion but then again many pdocs don't.
All available medications have been exhausted. I have no need to be on anything like inderal which would have me passing out all the time because my BP is 80/60. That is my normal BP.
Right now I eat 500 calories a day. I don't deprive myself completly of food. I'm also petite so I don't require as many calories. I'm maintaining my weight at 500 calories. I am in the high normal weight range for my height. It's disgusting.
Support groups trigger me. I want to be the thinnest. They are not healthy for me.What I need more than anything is a psychologist who specialises in EDs. But I have no money. So I have been on a waiting list for 14 months now to see one on a sliding fee scale. 14 months.
I am proud to be Canadian and proud of my country. I do not agree with all the politics, especially in Quebec. But that is a discussion for another board.
I guess that's it.
Maxime
Posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 19:39:25
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 19:19:18
OK. Well, if you already know anything that I can tell you, I guess I'll shut up.
Posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 20:28:08
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 19:39:25
> OK. Well, if you already know anything that I can tell you, I guess I'll shut up.
>
>I was just telling you what I know and more about my pdoc and my situation. I wouldn't tell anyone to shut up, except for one person on this board.
I am just looking for a little morale support since I don't have any in real life. You have never seen me post anything about "what med should I take" or anything along those lines. That is because I know it it impossible for you to know my situation.
I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't around here. I'm sorry.
I need to cut ... but I musn't ...
Maxi
Posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 20:59:24
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 20:28:08
> > OK. Well, if you already know anything that I can tell you, I guess I'll shut up.
> >
> >
>
> I was just telling you what I know and more about my pdoc and my situation. I wouldn't tell anyone to shut up, except for one person on this board.
>
> I am just looking for a little morale support since I don't have any in real life. You have never seen me post anything about "what med should I take" or anything along those lines. That is because I know it it impossible for you to know my situation.
>
> I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't around here. I'm sorry.
>
> I need to cut ... but I musn't ...
>
> Maxi
I'm sorry, Maxi. I took out my own upset on you, and you sure as hell don't deserve it. It was wrong of me to write that, and it was entirely my own state coming out.Maybe you can understand a little if I tell you a little of what was going on for me? I'll try, but you do not have to read it.
I am in the process of writing a series of formal complaints about some, shall we say, "suboptimal" treatment I received last year for depression. There is a local law firm, run by the local Bar Association, which handles complaints about mental health care in this county, and an attorney there had taken on the investigation of my complaints. Their merit review came back saying that my complaints "lacked merit" with the exception of the fact that they had failed to note that I lost about 50 pounds -- roughly a third of my body weight -- during a relapse of AN. This despite my telling the people "treating" me that I was experiencing this relapse.
So, I'm writing the complaint myself. It's triggering me, because I can't seem to distance myself from those experiences emotionally, and because I have such poor skills in dealing with anger in general.
Today, the attorney emailed me her notes from her discussions with the providers in question. They say such things as "client wanted to focus on the upcoming holidays instead of on her ED symptoms" -- well, the fact is that I didn't have any ED symptoms to focus on (and hadn't for nearly a decade) until after Valentines Day, so there was nothing to say about it all before Christmas! Almost everything in these notes is technically true, in a similar fashion, but none of it is accurate. And based on this information -- inaccurate as it is -- they concluded that my complaint lacks merit.
I'm guessing you can see where I might be feeling a little frustrated today? When I read your post, I found it frustrating, and lashed out.
Once again, I am very sorry, Maxi, that you're going through this. I agree that many doctors do not know nearly as much as they'd like to think about eating disorders, and that makes it so very frustrating to deal with them.
I have a question, though, but feel free to ignore it. I don't know anything about thyroid problems, but my new psychiatrist -- Dr CattleProd for anyone keeping track -- has brought up using thyroid meds even for women who test in the normal range, to push them close to or sometimes over the top of that range. I'm curious about what sorts of thyroid tests you've had done and how they're coming out now that you're on meds for it?
Maxi, I really do wish that I could take back my little tantrum, and hope that you can hear that I am sincere.
Posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 21:35:16
In reply to I'm sorry » Maxime, posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 20:59:24
I hear your sincerity Racer. Honestly, I do.
I can empathize with what you are going through with the whole lawyer etc. situation. I went through the same thing when I was in the ER once. I overheard the nurses putting me down. I had OD'd (cry for help) and they were saying how I didn't deserve the bed. They changed me into one of those stupid hospital gowns and did not close the drapes so I was exposed ... literally. Then the charcoal was taking effect and I was begging for a bed pan or to be let out of bed to use the washroom and they wouldn't listen to me so I had an um, an accident in my bed which was not a pretty site and I was so embarrassed. I sat there in my own poop with charcoal smeared all over my face (no one had given me a cloth to clean my face).
Anyhow that was the time I heard them say I didn't deserve a bed. I wrote to the ombudsman about my experience and I receive a letter saying that the nurses "may have" been out of line.
Just writing about it now is making me cry so I can only imagine what you are going through.
As for the thyroid situation. My psychiatrist phoned my endo and asked him to use some cytomel with the synthroid to help with my depression. But my endo doesn't believe in that ( that cytomel can help depression) and most do not like to use it because it's not as safe as synthroid. Personally I would like to be taking Armour, a natural thyroid replacement. My endo likes to keep me just on the border of "hyper" so I am fortunate in that respect. But I still have symptoms of hypothyroidism - exhaustion, sore joints, my body temperature is low, my periods are heavy and I have slow reflexes, weight gain despite low caloric intake. I know there is something wrong with my metabolic system, whether it is caused by my years of anorexia or just something I have. I don't feel right. I know that sounds vague, but I know my body and it just does not feel right. I was adopted so I have no family health history to go on. I did receive the files but I guess 36 years ago not too many details were given. It was noted that my both my parents suffered from depression. It's funny, I always thought I was the result of a teenage pregnancy. It turns out my birth mom was in her 40's when she had me and was a widow. The man she was with would not marry or stay with her because of me so she gave me up.
Well that was quite the ramble. I'm sorry you are going through such an awful time right now. But at least you are in recovery and that takes a lot of courage. Something I don't have right now.
Hugs,
Maxime
> > > OK. Well, if you already know anything that I can tell you, I guess I'll shut up.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I was just telling you what I know and more about my pdoc and my situation. I wouldn't tell anyone to shut up, except for one person on this board.
> >
> > I am just looking for a little morale support since I don't have any in real life. You have never seen me post anything about "what med should I take" or anything along those lines. That is because I know it it impossible for you to know my situation.
> >
> > I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't around here. I'm sorry.
> >
> > I need to cut ... but I musn't ...
> >
> > Maxi
>
>
> I'm sorry, Maxi. I took out my own upset on you, and you sure as hell don't deserve it. It was wrong of me to write that, and it was entirely my own state coming out.
>
> Maybe you can understand a little if I tell you a little of what was going on for me? I'll try, but you do not have to read it.
>
> I am in the process of writing a series of formal complaints about some, shall we say, "suboptimal" treatment I received last year for depression. There is a local law firm, run by the local Bar Association, which handles complaints about mental health care in this county, and an attorney there had taken on the investigation of my complaints. Their merit review came back saying that my complaints "lacked merit" with the exception of the fact that they had failed to note that I lost about 50 pounds -- roughly a third of my body weight -- during a relapse of AN. This despite my telling the people "treating" me that I was experiencing this relapse.
>
> So, I'm writing the complaint myself. It's triggering me, because I can't seem to distance myself from those experiences emotionally, and because I have such poor skills in dealing with anger in general.
>
> Today, the attorney emailed me her notes from her discussions with the providers in question. They say such things as "client wanted to focus on the upcoming holidays instead of on her ED symptoms" -- well, the fact is that I didn't have any ED symptoms to focus on (and hadn't for nearly a decade) until after Valentines Day, so there was nothing to say about it all before Christmas! Almost everything in these notes is technically true, in a similar fashion, but none of it is accurate. And based on this information -- inaccurate as it is -- they concluded that my complaint lacks merit.
>
> I'm guessing you can see where I might be feeling a little frustrated today? When I read your post, I found it frustrating, and lashed out.
>
> Once again, I am very sorry, Maxi, that you're going through this. I agree that many doctors do not know nearly as much as they'd like to think about eating disorders, and that makes it so very frustrating to deal with them.
>
> I have a question, though, but feel free to ignore it. I don't know anything about thyroid problems, but my new psychiatrist -- Dr CattleProd for anyone keeping track -- has brought up using thyroid meds even for women who test in the normal range, to push them close to or sometimes over the top of that range. I'm curious about what sorts of thyroid tests you've had done and how they're coming out now that you're on meds for it?
>
> Maxi, I really do wish that I could take back my little tantrum, and hope that you can hear that I am sincere.
Posted by Racer on March 29, 2005, at 22:54:21
In reply to Re: I'm sorry » Racer, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 21:35:16
Thank you, Maxime. Having you accept my apology means a lot to me.
Your problems with getting coordinated care are awful. Damn that just makes me so angry! The worst of it is that you're not being heard when you tell them that something is not right! I went through something similar when I was in college, with a UTI that wouldn't go away. The doctor kept blaming me, lecturing me about taking all the meds, etc -- which I was doing, every time she prescribed the same dose of Tetracycline -- until after I got out of the hospital where I landed with a kidney infection caused by a drug resistent bacteria!
Best luck to you, Maxi, and once again -- thank you.
Posted by barbaracat on March 31, 2005, at 16:16:52
In reply to Re: I'm sorry » Racer, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 21:35:16
Hi Maxine,
Ooh, my heart goes out to you. Sometimes it's so uncomfortable to be alive and to have a fumbling pdoc you don't have confidence in makes it seem even more bleak. I simply do not understand how some of these folks made it through the rigours of medical school.
About hospitalization, I've been through 2, most recently late January. It was basically a Zen, minimalist experience, a time out of time fueled by plenty of lorazepam. Didn't 'help' me, but gave me a time out to reasses things, and I must admit, a hidden motive was to drive the screws of awareness into my husband's brain that things really have been that bad for me.If you think you need to be hospitalized, is it so different in Canada as in the US? We merely have to show up at the Emergency Room stating we're suicidal, and they have to admit you. No matter what you're financial status is, each state has money earmarked for this and it's usually better for the patient financially and the level of care than relying on what's allowed by insurance. This was told to me by a pretty open mental health care worker, that hospitals must take you and ER depts are the place to go. The fact that you're admitting you have plans to your current pdoc and he's not taking it seriously is cause for concern. There must be a way to find out for sure that you have this recourse if you need it.
> As for the thyroid situation.
**Thyroid, very very important, mucho important. Mine has been hypo most of my life and since starting Lithium, has bounced all over. I have fibromyalgia and the symptoms are identical to low thryoid. My TSH literally ping-pongs. Long story short, I've tried Armour and the others and the ratio of T3 is far too high for my bipolar anxiety in these natural formulations. What has worked very well is Synthroid with a small about (10mg) of Cytomel. I've had numerous trials of T4 alone and it just didn't work. T3 alone, ick, too much anxiety. But the two have been very stable and the fibro symtpoms are all but gone. My TSH is very low, skimming hyper, which is where I feel best.
I really encourage you to insist on a trial of Cytomel. No matter what your doctor thinks of it, the important thing is what you think of it. Hang in there. - Barbara
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 31, 2005, at 23:18:27
In reply to My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 12:50:41
maxime..you are upset your pdoc wouldnt "throw" you into the hospital?
you are a very clever person...what is it that you want?
more meds?
ability to help yourself?
someone to take care of you?
the canadian health care system is not to blame ..
nor the pdoc..
it is the illness..
try to find out waht it is that you do need...
go from there..
j
Posted by Sarah T. on April 1, 2005, at 0:01:48
In reply to My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 12:50:41
There are so many incompetent, incapable doctors. It's appalling, frustrating and maddening! I read that in ancient China, patients paid doctors only when they (the patients) were well, so that provided an incentive for the doctors to help and heal the patients.
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:18:39
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by justyourlaugh on March 31, 2005, at 23:18:27
> maxime..you are upset your pdoc wouldnt "throw" you into the hospital?
No, not upset at all. Surprised.
> you are a very clever person...what is it that you want?I am a very clever person. I fall into the class of genius. I want my brain back.
> more meds?
Dear god, no more meds! No more f*cking meds!
> ability to help yourself?
Ability to change the system so that it benefits both the patient and the doctor. If my endocrinologist would agree to work with my pdoc, I might actually see some progress. I am convinced that my mood problems are linked to a metabolic problem. But my endocrinologist would not listen to my pdoc and I do not have the ability to make him listen unless I hire someone from the mob here in Montreal. I don't have the funds to do that.
> someone to take care of you?
I can take care of myself but it would be nice for someone to tell me (in real life) that it's okay for me to be sick at times and that sleeping in the afternoon isn't a sign of laziness.
> the canadian health care system is not to blame
Well it's not helping is it? The Health Minister is not allocating enough money into mental health. There are no incentives to keep our psychiatrists here. They all move to U.S. where they will get paid more. Waiting 9-12 months to see a psychiatrist is not okay. That is 9-12 months of my life put on the back burner. So yes, it's very much to blame. Of all the people requiring medical care, those with mental health problems are the LEAST able to advocate for themselves. ER doctors aren't trained to deal with psychiatric patients.
There is a bridge in Montreal - The Jacques Cartier Bridge. Many people complete suicides from that bridge. So someone in Health Canada PAID researchers to see if it would be worthwhile to put up barriers to stop people from jumping of the bridge. After ONE YEAR of research it was decided that "yes" barrier should be put up. The barriers are there now. Well less people have completed suicide from the bridge. HOWEVER, the percentage of attempts have gone up dramatically. Why did they have to do a year's worth of research? That money could have used to help people. Out of all the Provinces, Quebec has the highest number of suicides per capita. There is a problem.
> nor the pdoc..
Well if the pdoc tells you that if you had partner and were sexually active then all would be well then YES, the pdoc is contributing to MY problem because nowhere in the DSM under the criteria for depression does it read "is not getting shagged three times a week". Walking out of his office with a prescription for sex is not all that helpful.
Tamara on this board was kind enough to seek out some studies that are being done in Ontario for me. A person, I don't even know did this for me. I haven't been able to follow up. Tamara emailed me and said my Pdoc should be doing it. I realised she is right and so I phoned him and told him about it. He told me to call and get the information from them. I can write clearly right now. But my speech is another thing. I can't find my words. I can't pick up that phone and call these people.
> it is the illness..
Which would be under control if all the above were in place which it isn't.
> try to find out waht it is that you do need...
> go from there..
> jI NEED MY BRAIN! That is what I need. So where do I go from here? Right back to beginning where I stated that I am classified as a genius.
I'm going in circles and I can't do it anymore.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:31:01
In reply to Hospital and Cytomel » Maxime, posted by barbaracat on March 31, 2005, at 16:16:52
Hi Barbara:
If I went to the hospital and said that I was suicidal I would be seen by a doctor and then by a social worker or psych nurse. They would then talk to the pdoc on call. Unless I am going to kill myself when I leave the hospital they will tell me to leave. I may not even be seen by a pdoc. I could lie and say "yes, when I go out the doors of the hospital I am going to "fill in the blank". But I am not going to lie. Of course if I was going psychotic or manic they would put me on a 24 hour hold. I have the unfortunate "luck" of seeming very together when I am really losing it. I had one pdoc when I lived in Alberta who finally realised it. When I would go into the hospital she would tell the pdoc in charge of my case to be cautious of that and not to be fooled. I miss her. She was a great pdoc. She was very caring and she did excellent psychotherapy with me.
I have asked my endo twice to put me on the cytomel in combination with the Synthroid. He won't do it. My pdoc called him and asked ... he won't do it. The only good thing is that he does like my TSH to be borderline hyperthyroid. Not that it does any good.
Thanks for your input Barbara. I appreciate it.
Maxi
> Hi Maxine,
> Ooh, my heart goes out to you. Sometimes it's so uncomfortable to be alive and to have a fumbling pdoc you don't have confidence in makes it seem even more bleak. I simply do not understand how some of these folks made it through the rigours of medical school.
>
> About hospitalization, I've been through 2, most recently late January. It was basically a Zen, minimalist experience, a time out of time fueled by plenty of lorazepam. Didn't 'help' me, but gave me a time out to reasses things, and I must admit, a hidden motive was to drive the screws of awareness into my husband's brain that things really have been that bad for me.
>
> If you think you need to be hospitalized, is it so different in Canada as in the US? We merely have to show up at the Emergency Room stating we're suicidal, and they have to admit you. No matter what you're financial status is, each state has money earmarked for this and it's usually better for the patient financially and the level of care than relying on what's allowed by insurance. This was told to me by a pretty open mental health care worker, that hospitals must take you and ER depts are the place to go. The fact that you're admitting you have plans to your current pdoc and he's not taking it seriously is cause for concern. There must be a way to find out for sure that you have this recourse if you need it.
>
> > As for the thyroid situation.
>
> **Thyroid, very very important, mucho important. Mine has been hypo most of my life and since starting Lithium, has bounced all over. I have fibromyalgia and the symptoms are identical to low thryoid. My TSH literally ping-pongs. Long story short, I've tried Armour and the others and the ratio of T3 is far too high for my bipolar anxiety in these natural formulations. What has worked very well is Synthroid with a small about (10mg) of Cytomel. I've had numerous trials of T4 alone and it just didn't work. T3 alone, ick, too much anxiety. But the two have been very stable and the fibro symtpoms are all but gone. My TSH is very low, skimming hyper, which is where I feel best.
>
> I really encourage you to insist on a trial of Cytomel. No matter what your doctor thinks of it, the important thing is what you think of it. Hang in there. - Barbara
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 1, 2005, at 10:54:20
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:18:39
yes you can maxime..
go around one more time..and then another..
we are all here to listen..
we understand..
look to the left of you , we are wondering around the track beside you.
j
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 10:58:54
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:18:39
Since yesterday, when all I'm really able to do is sit and soak my eyes from the surgery, I've been listening to the TV. I heard on the news that a new device is being tried for Bulemia. The pt has a device inserted [like a pacemaker] and it gradually stops people from wanting to purge. I know you have an ED, but I'm not sure what king. Anyway, I thought this might interest you. Oh, and most importantly they said they now know that it has a biological cause and not a mental cause and that's why AD's don't work. So progress seems to be being made. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 11:16:50
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 10:58:54
Hi Phillipa - I hope your eyes are feeling less tender today.
I don't purge. Never have. I have tried many times but I can't do it. I wonder if the device is to actually stop the person from physically throwing up. This would be most frightening for someone with bulimia. They would binge and then not be able to get rid of the food. Many people with bulimia don't even have to use their fingers or other object to make themselves throw up. They can just stand over the toilet and do it. Some would turn to anorexia and some would become compulsive overeaters and another percentage might be helped. I will have to do some research and see if I can find any information on it.
Thanks for the info.
Maxime
> Since yesterday, when all I'm really able to do is sit and soak my eyes from the surgery, I've been listening to the TV. I heard on the news that a new device is being tried for Bulemia. The pt has a device inserted [like a pacemaker] and it gradually stops people from wanting to purge. I know you have an ED, but I'm not sure what king. Anyway, I thought this might interest you. Oh, and most importantly they said they now know that it has a biological cause and not a mental cause and that's why AD's don't work. So progress seems to be being made. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 12:51:35
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 11:16:50
Maxime, They actually had a girl showing the devise that was implanted in her, and she said at first she used to purge about 3 times a day. With the devise she went down to twice a day, once a day, and now not at all. She felt fine and felt her eating disorder was "cured". Thanks for asking about me. I didn't sleep at all last night even with perococet and valium. I was full of bloody drainage today, but I had my hair washed and dressings changed this morning at the surgeons. Now I'm draining clear liquid from behind my ears. I need to lie down now and try to sleep. I took a tylenol with codeine. i felt i was already becoming addicted to the percocet as my hands were shaking and I don't feel well. Take care. Will try and come back on later. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by barbaracat on April 1, 2005, at 13:57:11
In reply to Re: Hospital and Cytomel » barbaracat, posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 0:31:01
Maxine,
I forgot to add, 'don't expect an Endo to know a bloody thing about thyroid in the real world'. No endo I've ever seen 'believes in' cytomel. Well, guess what, I don't believe in endos! I feel so much better taking only 10mg of T3, so nyah nyah, to them!If your current primary care doc is intermeshed with the endo, he/she won't go over the endo's word from God proclamation about what you do or don't need. Can you find another primary care doc who perhaps doesn't know you or your 'problems' so intimately and might be willing to start fresh? Doctors become very prejudiced by patient as problem and it's hard to be seen as just a person after a while.
Can you perhaps see a naturopathic physician? I don't know if you have licensed naturopaths in Canada. You most likely will pay out of pocket, but they're usually not at all expensive and very very worthwhile. If you have to make a trip down south to the US to become a patient of a good naturopath, it may a drastic measure but getting your thyroid PERFECT is your #1 priority. I feel very strongly about this, knowing first hand what a bum thyroid can do to your body, mind, and soul. - Barbara
> I have asked my endo twice to put me on the cytomel in combination with the Synthroid. He won't do it. My pdoc called him and asked ... he won't do it. The only good thing is that he does like my TSH to be borderline hyperthyroid. Not that it does any good.
>
> Thanks for your input Barbara. I appreciate it.
>
> Maxi
>
>
> > Hi Maxine,
> > Ooh, my heart goes out to you. Sometimes it's so uncomfortable to be alive and to have a fumbling pdoc you don't have confidence in makes it seem even more bleak. I simply do not understand how some of these folks made it through the rigours of medical school.
> >
> > About hospitalization, I've been through 2, most recently late January. It was basically a Zen, minimalist experience, a time out of time fueled by plenty of lorazepam. Didn't 'help' me, but gave me a time out to reasses things, and I must admit, a hidden motive was to drive the screws of awareness into my husband's brain that things really have been that bad for me.
> >
> > If you think you need to be hospitalized, is it so different in Canada as in the US? We merely have to show up at the Emergency Room stating we're suicidal, and they have to admit you. No matter what you're financial status is, each state has money earmarked for this and it's usually better for the patient financially and the level of care than relying on what's allowed by insurance. This was told to me by a pretty open mental health care worker, that hospitals must take you and ER depts are the place to go. The fact that you're admitting you have plans to your current pdoc and he's not taking it seriously is cause for concern. There must be a way to find out for sure that you have this recourse if you need it.
> >
> > > As for the thyroid situation.
> >
> > **Thyroid, very very important, mucho important. Mine has been hypo most of my life and since starting Lithium, has bounced all over. I have fibromyalgia and the symptoms are identical to low thryoid. My TSH literally ping-pongs. Long story short, I've tried Armour and the others and the ratio of T3 is far too high for my bipolar anxiety in these natural formulations. What has worked very well is Synthroid with a small about (10mg) of Cytomel. I've had numerous trials of T4 alone and it just didn't work. T3 alone, ick, too much anxiety. But the two have been very stable and the fibro symtpoms are all but gone. My TSH is very low, skimming hyper, which is where I feel best.
> >
> > I really encourage you to insist on a trial of Cytomel. No matter what your doctor thinks of it, the important thing is what you think of it. Hang in there. - Barbara
>
>
Posted by TamaraJ on April 1, 2005, at 15:34:25
In reply to My doctor can't help me, posted by Maxime on March 29, 2005, at 12:50:41
Maxime,
I know this is going to sound very simplistic, but can your family doctor or gyn help you, even by running necessary blood tests (including even the basic thyroid test, but preferably a full thyroid panel )? The endocrinologist you are seeing sounds like a putz, particularly since you have had thyroid tests done that clearly indicate hypothyroidism. Just as an aside, a number of years ago, my best friend, was feeling run down, sleeping a lot, couldn't concentrate, was irritable, etc., and her gp (same gp as I had) tested her thyroid. Anyway, she was subclinical, but the gp said that it was time to start treating it, based on her symptoms and the results of the test. Within a couple of months of treatment, she was back to her old self. So, what I am getting at is - can you get in to see a gp, even if it is at a walk-in clinic, or even a gyn. And, don't even mention that you have seen an endo in the past. Also, your pdoc can request blood tests, and frankly, at this point, you might want to demand that he do so. Then you can take the results to either a gp, a gyn or a new endo (if you have lost confidence in your current endo). And, if you are concerned about expressing yourself verbally, you can always send your pdoc an e-mail or type something up and hand it to him when you see him, or take what you have typed up to the clinic. It is just a thought. It just pisses me off to see someone getting obviously sub-standard care.
My heart goes out to you Maxime. Don't hesitate to let me know if there is anything I can do.
Tamara
> I had another appt. today with my pdoc. He is grasping at straws now. He says there are many biochemical reasons why I am unable to tolerate my Parnate even at 10 mg however when I pressed him to tell me some he wasn't able to. I did tell him I tried to combine the Desipramine and the Parnate for a couple of days. He didn't freak out in fact he said he has done that before with patients. So now I am to take 25 mg of Desipramine 3 times a day. I don't think this is going to help me. I told him I was suicidal and I had plans. I told him I wasn't going to kill myself today or even this week but it would be soon. He said that we couldn't give up. Okay. But "we" aren't the one suffering. It's me. I can't believe he doesn't throw me into the hospital. Any other pdoc I have had would throw me into the hospital for being so suicidal. Maybe it's because he works in a psychiatric hospital and I am good shape compared to anyone he sees there. I'm glad. I have never really been helped by any of my hospitalizations except for when I went psychotic from Topomax and then Wellbutrin. I was so scared I wanted to be in the hospital. But I am not scared now.
>
> Maxime
Posted by Maxime on April 1, 2005, at 15:54:44
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by TamaraJ on April 1, 2005, at 15:34:25
Hi. Well I started seeing an endo because my GP screwed up my thyroid (indirectly). I had a test in the fall of 2003 and the test came back hypothryoid. So she increased my synthroid slightly. By Christmas I was feeling worse. I called her and told her that I was sure my thryoid was messed up and I reminded her that I was taking Dilantin (as a mood stabiliser... have since stopped). I told her that I read Dilantin can prevent the absorption of Synthroid. She said she it was not true. In January of 2004 I went to see and demanded that a blood test be taken. She called me and my TSH was up to 25! So that is when I decided I should see an endo. That why I knew when I went to see him that my TSH was 25. I saw another endo that my pdoc set me up to see. I saw him once and then for my next 2 appointments he cancelled 30 minutes before each one. I had to take half a day off work just to get to the hospital because it was on the other side of town. I arrived and the receptionist/assistant said that she had tried to call me a half hour ago. UGH! He had an emergency to take care of! I mean this man is not a surgeon. What emergency could there be? Then it happened the second time. After that I just didn't show up for my fourth appointment because I could not waste another half day of work.
Maybe I will play the role of hypochodriac when I see him on the 11th. Maybe I will beg him to order tests so that my mind is at ease. I will tell him it keeps me awake at night worrying about it. I'm already "a psych patient" to him. I might as well act like one.
Sigh.
Maxime
> Maxime,
>
> I know this is going to sound very simplistic, but can your family doctor or gyn help you, even by running necessary blood tests (including even the basic thyroid test, but preferably a full thyroid panel )? The endocrinologist you are seeing sounds like a putz, particularly since you have had thyroid tests done that clearly indicate hypothyroidism. Just as an aside, a number of years ago, my best friend, was feeling run down, sleeping a lot, couldn't concentrate, was irritable, etc., and her gp (same gp as I had) tested her thyroid. Anyway, she was subclinical, but the gp said that it was time to start treating it, based on her symptoms and the results of the test. Within a couple of months of treatment, she was back to her old self. So, what I am getting at is - can you get in to see a gp, even if it is at a walk-in clinic, or even a gyn. And, don't even mention that you have seen an endo in the past. Also, your pdoc can request blood tests, and frankly, at this point, you might want to demand that he do so. Then you can take the results to either a gp, a gyn or a new endo (if you have lost confidence in your current endo). And, if you are concerned about expressing yourself verbally, you can always send your pdoc an e-mail or type something up and hand it to him when you see him, or take what you have typed up to the clinic. It is just a thought. It just pisses me off to see someone getting obviously sub-standard care.
>
> My heart goes out to you Maxime. Don't hesitate to let me know if there is anything I can do.
>
> Tamara
>
> > I had another appt. today with my pdoc. He is grasping at straws now. He says there are many biochemical reasons why I am unable to tolerate my Parnate even at 10 mg however when I pressed him to tell me some he wasn't able to. I did tell him I tried to combine the Desipramine and the Parnate for a couple of days. He didn't freak out in fact he said he has done that before with patients. So now I am to take 25 mg of Desipramine 3 times a day. I don't think this is going to help me. I told him I was suicidal and I had plans. I told him I wasn't going to kill myself today or even this week but it would be soon. He said that we couldn't give up. Okay. But "we" aren't the one suffering. It's me. I can't believe he doesn't throw me into the hospital. Any other pdoc I have had would throw me into the hospital for being so suicidal. Maybe it's because he works in a psychiatric hospital and I am good shape compared to anyone he sees there. I'm glad. I have never really been helped by any of my hospitalizations except for when I went psychotic from Topomax and then Wellbutrin. I was so scared I wanted to be in the hospital. But I am not scared now.
> >
> > Maxime
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2005, at 16:14:32
In reply to Re: My doctor can't help me » Maxime, posted by TamaraJ on April 1, 2005, at 15:34:25
Maxime, Your TSH is 25! When mine was 22 it made me so anxious that the pdoc I was working with gave me a shot of 2mg of ativan IM. Instantly I felt "normal". That was the beginning of my first hospitalization. When they adjusted my thyroid medication I felt well. Went home, and carried on as usual. I never felt tired, just panic. Are we all so different that one feels like sleeping all the time and the other is a steady state of panic? Every time I saw a different doctor they couldn't believe my reflexes and questioned the dx of hypothyroidism. But when a complete panel was run it was always normal. You mentioned a lower range of normal in one of your earlier posts didn't you? If not blame my ignorance on the drugs. But my old pdoc wanted me to be on the low end. He said it would help depression. Ever hear anything like this? Could one of us please go to medical school and devote a practice just for women. Fondly, Phillipa
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