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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rod on March 5, 2005, at 7:08:02
Hi
I experience some increased hair loss the last months, which I attribute to my Thyroid (T3) augmentation. I take 25ug (10^-6) gramm per day.
The thing I dont understand is that eiter hypo or hyperthyroidism can cause alopecia. Why is that? I actually hoped the augmentation will be good for my hair, because it is thin to begin with. I have read that some sort of alopecia might be caused by impaired convertation of T4 to T3 in the skin of your head.
My lab results now (after some month of taking T3) show a too much of T3 (surprise surprise) and too low T4 and TSH. TSH is still active so my doc said I could rise my T3 to 50ug, to completely shut it down (which is a good thing for depression, he said).So does anybody know why I loose hair, and which role T4 plays here? Might also taking T4 help with that? What can I do against it? T3 causes an improvement in depression (especially cognition), so I would like to continue taking it.
Other drugs I take (geez, Im a living pharmacy... :) but dont feel drugged at all. quite the opposite)
Nortriptyline 150mg
Lyrica 450mg
amisulpride 50mg
T3 25ug
clonazepam 0,375mg
diphenhydramine 100mg (might drop that soon)
Nicergoline 15mg
Pentoxifylline 600mgRoland
Posted by Maxime on March 5, 2005, at 13:04:36
In reply to Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Question, posted by rod on March 5, 2005, at 7:08:02
Try looking up "Hypothyroidism" on about.com It will help you understand more how T4 is converted into T3 etc. and about conversion problems. Make sure your doctor is getting the right blood tests for you.
What are these meds for? Nicergoline 15mg Pentoxifylline 600mg? I am sorry I am too lazy to look them up.
Maxime
> Hi
>
> I experience some increased hair loss the last months, which I attribute to my Thyroid (T3) augmentation. I take 25ug (10^-6) gramm per day.
> The thing I dont understand is that eiter hypo or hyperthyroidism can cause alopecia. Why is that? I actually hoped the augmentation will be good for my hair, because it is thin to begin with. I have read that some sort of alopecia might be caused by impaired convertation of T4 to T3 in the skin of your head.
> My lab results now (after some month of taking T3) show a too much of T3 (surprise surprise) and too low T4 and TSH. TSH is still active so my doc said I could rise my T3 to 50ug, to completely shut it down (which is a good thing for depression, he said).
>
> So does anybody know why I loose hair, and which role T4 plays here? Might also taking T4 help with that? What can I do against it? T3 causes an improvement in depression (especially cognition), so I would like to continue taking it.
>
> Other drugs I take (geez, Im a living pharmacy... :) but dont feel drugged at all. quite the opposite)
>
> Nortriptyline 150mg
> Lyrica 450mg
> amisulpride 50mg
> T3 25ug
> clonazepam 0,375mg
> diphenhydramine 100mg (might drop that soon)
> Nicergoline 15mg
> Pentoxifylline 600mg
>
> Roland
Posted by MM on March 6, 2005, at 2:39:15
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Questio, posted by Maxime on March 5, 2005, at 13:04:36
Have you tried taking vitamins for the hairloss? I think Selenium and Zinc are the ones that help. You'd have to look up the dosages (too much zinc made me throw up, or if I took it on an empty stomach) but they did stop the hair loss for me. I don't know if that would work with your particular medications though; it might just be the epileptic meds that it works with. HTH.
MM
Posted by Maxime on March 6, 2005, at 10:13:49
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Questio » Maxime, posted by MM on March 6, 2005, at 2:39:15
Zinc and Selenium do work! If you look on the alternative med board you will see the various dosages you need to take. Also a shampoo sold only in hair salons by NIOXIN is very good. It's the only shampoo that I think helps because it actually has the selenium and zinc it in. But taking zinc and selenium is best. Many people lose hair from depakote so if you do a search on psycho-babble you will see plenty of posts on the subject.
Maxime
Posted by Bill LL on March 7, 2005, at 8:49:14
In reply to Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Question, posted by rod on March 5, 2005, at 7:08:02
Your doc said that you can completely shut down the TSH? I've read a lot about thyroid supplementation and even the most aggressive docs won't let your TSH go below 1.0. I think that one complication of going too low is osteoporosis. You better double check this with your doc.
> Hi
>
> I experience some increased hair loss the last months, which I attribute to my Thyroid (T3) augmentation. I take 25ug (10^-6) gramm per day.
> The thing I dont understand is that eiter hypo or hyperthyroidism can cause alopecia. Why is that? I actually hoped the augmentation will be good for my hair, because it is thin to begin with. I have read that some sort of alopecia might be caused by impaired convertation of T4 to T3 in the skin of your head.
> My lab results now (after some month of taking T3) show a too much of T3 (surprise surprise) and too low T4 and TSH. TSH is still active so my doc said I could rise my T3 to 50ug, to completely shut it down (which is a good thing for depression, he said).
>
> So does anybody know why I loose hair, and which role T4 plays here? Might also taking T4 help with that? What can I do against it? T3 causes an improvement in depression (especially cognition), so I would like to continue taking it.
>
> Other drugs I take (geez, Im a living pharmacy... :) but dont feel drugged at all. quite the opposite)
>
> Nortriptyline 150mg
> Lyrica 450mg
> amisulpride 50mg
> T3 25ug
> clonazepam 0,375mg
> diphenhydramine 100mg (might drop that soon)
> Nicergoline 15mg
> Pentoxifylline 600mg
>
> Roland
Posted by Maxime on March 7, 2005, at 14:14:24
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Question, posted by Bill LL on March 7, 2005, at 8:49:14
I thought that was weird as well. But then I thought maybe he meant that he would use artificial TSH (T3). Seems drastic to me when the thyroid was working properly before the T3 was being used.
Maxime
> Your doc said that you can completely shut down the TSH? I've read a lot about thyroid supplementation and even the most aggressive docs won't let your TSH go below 1.0. I think that one complication of going too low is osteoporosis. You better double check this with your doc.
>
> > Hi
> >
> > I experience some increased hair loss the last months, which I attribute to my Thyroid (T3) augmentation. I take 25ug (10^-6) gramm per day.
> > The thing I dont understand is that eiter hypo or hyperthyroidism can cause alopecia. Why is that? I actually hoped the augmentation will be good for my hair, because it is thin to begin with. I have read that some sort of alopecia might be caused by impaired convertation of T4 to T3 in the skin of your head.
> > My lab results now (after some month of taking T3) show a too much of T3 (surprise surprise) and too low T4 and TSH. TSH is still active so my doc said I could rise my T3 to 50ug, to completely shut it down (which is a good thing for depression, he said).
> >
> > So does anybody know why I loose hair, and which role T4 plays here? Might also taking T4 help with that? What can I do against it? T3 causes an improvement in depression (especially cognition), so I would like to continue taking it.
> >
> > Other drugs I take (geez, Im a living pharmacy... :) but dont feel drugged at all. quite the opposite)
> >
> > Nortriptyline 150mg
> > Lyrica 450mg
> > amisulpride 50mg
> > T3 25ug
> > clonazepam 0,375mg
> > diphenhydramine 100mg (might drop that soon)
> > Nicergoline 15mg
> > Pentoxifylline 600mg
> >
> > Roland
>
>
Posted by rod on March 8, 2005, at 8:28:50
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Questio » Bill LL, posted by Maxime on March 7, 2005, at 14:14:24
Ok, thank you all.
I didnt know about Zinc and Selenium being effective for some cases. I might consider this. Only problem I see is that Selenium does not have a useable effect for my depression. It causes some apathy in me, at standard dosage (what makes me wonder, because I live in a area which is highly depleted of Selenium. There is virtually no selenium anymore found in Vegetables, grain etc. etc.)
And thanks for the warning about the TSH thing. I will consult an endocrinologist soon to get some advise.
thanks
Roland
> I thought that was weird as well. But then I thought maybe he meant that he would use artificial TSH (T3). Seems drastic to me when the thyroid was working properly before the T3 was being used.
>
> Maxime
>
>
> > Your doc said that you can completely shut down the TSH? I've read a lot about thyroid supplementation and even the most aggressive docs won't let your TSH go below 1.0. I think that one complication of going too low is osteoporosis. You better double check this with your doc.
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I experience some increased hair loss the last months, which I attribute to my Thyroid (T3) augmentation. I take 25ug (10^-6) gramm per day.
> > > The thing I dont understand is that eiter hypo or hyperthyroidism can cause alopecia. Why is that? I actually hoped the augmentation will be good for my hair, because it is thin to begin with. I have read that some sort of alopecia might be caused by impaired convertation of T4 to T3 in the skin of your head.
> > > My lab results now (after some month of taking T3) show a too much of T3 (surprise surprise) and too low T4 and TSH. TSH is still active so my doc said I could rise my T3 to 50ug, to completely shut it down (which is a good thing for depression, he said).
> > >
> > > So does anybody know why I loose hair, and which role T4 plays here? Might also taking T4 help with that? What can I do against it? T3 causes an improvement in depression (especially cognition), so I would like to continue taking it.
> > >
> > > Other drugs I take (geez, Im a living pharmacy... :) but dont feel drugged at all. quite the opposite)
> > >
> > > Nortriptyline 150mg
> > > Lyrica 450mg
> > > amisulpride 50mg
> > > T3 25ug
> > > clonazepam 0,375mg
> > > diphenhydramine 100mg (might drop that soon)
> > > Nicergoline 15mg
> > > Pentoxifylline 600mg
> > >
> > > Roland
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by florence on March 8, 2005, at 15:57:07
In reply to Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Question, posted by rod on March 5, 2005, at 7:08:02
I belong to an excellent yahoo group for thyroid disease and I do not agree with the some of the responses here.
First: if you are only taking T3 then your labs are as expected. If your body has enough T3 then your T4 will go down as will your TSH. That is because it is a negative feedback system. TSH is actually a pituitary hormone.
MANY people in my group have SUPPRESSED TSH levels. Yes, less than 1.0. BUT we also have thyroid autoimmune diseases such as Hashimoto's (HYPO- underactive thyroid) OR Grave's Disease (HYPER- overactive thyroid).
Hair loss is discussed alot but it is usually mentioned as a symptom of the above mentioned diseases; especially Hashimoto's.
BTW, I struggled to find a reason for my chronic fatigue and did years of research myself. This site led me to further investigate thyroid issues and FINALLY- the SECOND ENDOCRINOLOGIST I saw tested my Thyroid Antibodies which were sky high.
I hope you have a dr who knows what he/she is doing. I don't hear many good things about endos becuz they tend to rely on Lab tests (often the wrong ones) instead of treating the symptoms of the patient.
I forgot who it was- maybe Dr Peter Whybrow at UCLA a researcher investigating thyroid and mood disorders--- but some dr. said that most drs freak out when the TSH goes below 1.0....I can tell you that even on this site- Psycho Babble- there is reference to lowering the TSH in order to get an improvement with mood.
I take Armour thyroid which has T3 and T4. Sorry to ramble on...I hope I said something to help you or somebody else. Florence> Hi
>
> I experience some increased hair loss the last months, which I attribute to my Thyroid (T3) augmentation. I take 25ug (10^-6) gramm per day.
> The thing I dont understand is that eiter hypo or hyperthyroidism can cause alopecia. Why is that? I actually hoped the augmentation will be good for my hair, because it is thin to begin with. I have read that some sort of alopecia might be caused by impaired convertation of T4 to T3 in the skin of your head.
> My lab results now (after some month of taking T3) show a too much of T3 (surprise surprise) and too low T4 and TSH. TSH is still active so my doc said I could rise my T3 to 50ug, to completely shut it down (which is a good thing for depression, he said).
>
> So does anybody know why I loose hair, and which role T4 plays here? Might also taking T4 help with that? What can I do against it? T3 causes an improvement in depression (especially cognition), so I would like to continue taking it.
>
> Other drugs I take (geez, Im a living pharmacy... :) but dont feel drugged at all. quite the opposite)
>
> Nortriptyline 150mg
> Lyrica 450mg
> amisulpride 50mg
> T3 25ug
> clonazepam 0,375mg
> diphenhydramine 100mg (might drop that soon)
> Nicergoline 15mg
> Pentoxifylline 600mg
>
> Roland
Posted by florence on March 8, 2005, at 16:02:58
In reply to Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Question, posted by rod on March 5, 2005, at 7:08:02
Sorry again, I meant to add that my group also recommends eating 2 Brazil nuts a day which will give you the 20 or is it 200? mg selenium if you can't stand the smell of the supplement.
My group mentions selenium as mainly being taken to help with the conversion of T4 to T3...I'll have to check the info on this site...
BTW, I think alot of us are taking 4-5 different kinds of meds so don't feel bad about it. Flo
Posted by MM on March 8, 2005, at 16:12:16
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Question, posted by florence on March 8, 2005, at 15:57:07
I have a thyroid test question....I was diagnosed? with borderline hypothyroid and have been taking .5 mg of Synthroid ever since. Then some symptoms returned and I got tested by a different, newish doctor and I'm not sure if I trust her judgement on it. She did a thyroid blood test, but I don't remember her mentioning anything about T3. I've honestly tried to understand the thyroid test lingo but ......Is it normal to just test the T4 and TSH?
Sorry if this question is out of line on here?
MM
Posted by florence on March 8, 2005, at 18:58:23
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Question » florence, posted by MM on March 8, 2005, at 16:12:16
The experts (patients with thyroid problems) have repeatedly stated that the tests should be FREE T4, FREE T3, TSH, and THYROID ANTIBODIES (there are 3 but for some reason 2 of them are tested more often than the other one)
Majority of drs do a thyroid panel which is TSH, T4 uptake, and MAYBE if you are lucky, a Free T4.
It is SO hard to find a dr who is "up" on this info; most treat by lab results and not symptoms.
This was my experience: fatigue and depression for over nine years; TSH always within range; no goiter or nodules; always told my levels were fine; always given antidepressants that did nothing but GIVE me anxiety, and made me sleep.I was practically bed-ridden with fatigue for nine months last year. I had seen about 10-12 drs. Ironically it was a great Psychiatrist who helped me. She WORKED with me to find an answer. She referred me to a great obgyn who had NO problem letting me try Armour thyroid- the natural PRESCRIPTION thyroid medicine.
There I go again rambling. Sorry. I would call and ask alot of questions about any dr you see: do they treat by symptoms or ONLY LABS.. Do they believe in T3 and T4 meds or just the synthetic T4. ....My yahoo alternative thyroid group calls these docs Synthroid Nazis!
Please don't settle for feeling less than normal.. It can do years of damage to you physically if you are not on the right dose thyroid replacement... I urge you to check out my group for TONS of info or any other place where you can get info- preferably from PATIENTS who know what it is like to feel constant fatigue, or joint pain, or tinnitis, or dry skin, or alopecia, etc. Good Luck! Flo
> I have a thyroid test question....I was diagnosed? with borderline hypothyroid and have been taking .5 mg of Synthroid ever since. Then some symptoms returned and I got tested by a different, newish doctor and I'm not sure if I trust her judgement on it. She did a thyroid blood test, but I don't remember her mentioning anything about T3. I've honestly tried to understand the thyroid test lingo but ......Is it normal to just test the T4 and TSH?
> Sorry if this question is out of line on here?
> MM
Posted by Maxime on March 8, 2005, at 21:03:46
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Question, posted by florence on March 8, 2005, at 16:02:58
Florence, I am hypothryoid but my Endo is an idiot. He doesn't take the right blood tests IMHO. I believe I have a conversion problem. He likes to use the good old synthroid. Ugh. I wanted to use Armour but he wouldn't go for it. I live in Canada where finding a specialist is hard enough as it is. And I think my pdoc and my endo should be discussing my case together ... but that is never going to happen.
Which group are you on?
Maxime
> Sorry again, I meant to add that my group also recommends eating 2 Brazil nuts a day which will give you the 20 or is it 200? mg selenium if you can't stand the smell of the supplement.
>
> My group mentions selenium as mainly being taken to help with the conversion of T4 to T3...I'll have to check the info on this site...
>
> BTW, I think alot of us are taking 4-5 different kinds of meds so don't feel bad about it. Flo
Posted by prodgirl on March 9, 2005, at 18:53:31
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Question, posted by florence on March 8, 2005, at 15:57:07
Florence;
I was just diagnosed as Hypo w. Hashimoto's, Lithium Goiter and possible Hyperparathyrodism. Planned on posting something today to see if there are others, as I just got the dx. Would love to go to your Yahoo board if you could give me the site.
Once my pdoc got my blood results (Li, BUN and Creatnine norm) TSH 5.1, I went straight to a thyroid specialist here in LA. I started 1mg Synthroid yesterday, hoping it might help my goiter 5.1cm as well as the Hashimoto's. The ultrasound didn't show any blood flow, except where my parathyroid might be.
Just looking for perspective, as we all are.
prodgirl
Posted by florence on March 9, 2005, at 20:37:25
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Questio » florence, posted by Maxime on March 8, 2005, at 21:03:46
The sensational, most informative, intelligent thyroid group that I belong to is Natural Thyroid Hormone at yahoo groups. Believe me when I say that I did enough research to know they are the best. I get a "digest" of all posts for the day sent to my email account but you can go to the groups site and read previously posts or look up links and polls.
Another site I found REALLY helpful was Alternative Thyroid.com It has losts of useful info too.... But the yahoo group is the absolute best.
BTW, in my quest to find a cause for my unrelenting fatigue, a high calcium level was found ( I had to BEG the dr to test SOMETHING so I had a complete metabolic panel) Anyway, I ended up having a parathyroidectomy....It did NOTHING to help my fatigue.
Also, I don't want to insult anyone's intelligence but Lithium is well-known to cause or interfere with thyroid...I have a friend with BiPolar and he takes Armour thyroid because of the Lithium.
Speaking of conversion problems: I have heard this MANY times on the Yahoo Group site. That is why Synthroid or any T4 only medicine does not work for some people.
There are several Canadians in this thyroid group. Also Aussies, and some Europeans.
The moderator is Janie but there is a gal named Valerie who lives in West Virginia I think and she is quite knowledgable too. She take s an ungodly amount of Armour PLUS 25 mg cytomel.. But she didn't ramp up to that overnight. It took her YEARS...
Please check out this group. They have REALLY done their homework so you won't have to! I learned the majority of my info from them. I could have saved so much time and MONEY if I had discovered it earlier...
Can I answer any other questions? I can always ask the group for you..but nothing beats registering with this group... They are not adverse to synthetic meds but since most people had no luck with them they tend to favor Armour.
All the best - Florence
Posted by florence on March 9, 2005, at 21:56:24
In reply to BP and Hashimoto's » florence, posted by prodgirl on March 9, 2005, at 18:53:31
Prodgirl: Don't know if you are aware of this:
Hashimoto's is the most common CAUSE of Hypothyroidism. Some people have hypothyroidism but it is not caused by Hashimoto's.
Hashimito's is an autoimmune disease. AND if autoimmune disease run in your family--like in mine-- you might be more likely to get an autoimmune disease...(My brother has Crohn's Disease; my other brother has Polymyalgia Rheumatica; I have a cousin with Guillame Barre- his mother has Rheumatoid arthritis.......I also have some psorhiasis. These are all autoimmune diseases.
Hashimoto's is named for the Japanese dr who discovered a high incidence of it in a small village in Japan where they ate tons of fish and seafood HIGH in iodine. So, lack of iodine is not always the cause of thyroid disease.
I have a neighbor who got a goiter soon after the birth of her first son. She was diagnosed with Hashimoto's. She is taking Synthroid but not happy with it. She also developed Vitiligo- a skin pigment disease that is also an autoimmune disease.
I think you are more likely than the "normal" population of developing an autoimmune disease once you have one already. But it is not a tremendously higher risk.
She is about 41 yrs old-- still looses clumps of hair but her endo won't do much to help. How ironic: he was the first endo I saw who told me my levels were fine.
Well the idiot never tested my antibodies since my TSH was around 4 and I had no goiter.
FWIW I truly believe my depression developed because I was not treated for my hypothyroid disease. I never had it ten yrs ago: just fatigue that was awful..
Find a good endo.. It helps to call and see if they treat by symptoms or labs. It's not an easy task. And it is difficult to find any dr who believes in Armour thyroid. So I would ask if they have a problem with prescribing it.
I hope the Synthroid works for you. It takes a while to find out. My sister-in-law has Hashi's and is doing great on it. But they found it early-when she was pregnant with her first child. She has 4 kids now!
Boy, I do ramble on so.....I just feel the need to get this info out since I wasted so many years of my life and I get FURIOUS when I think of all the money I paid drs who did nothing for me...I cannot fathom that I was so desperate that I was going to have shock treatment... I just don't get it: why don't endos or psychs test thyroid before giving any antidepressants.
I live on a cul de sac with about 30 homes. I have accidentally discovered 3 others who have thyroid disease....plus a lady at church....a gal at the beauty salon who was getting a pedicure...It seems SO common!
I tried EVERY antidepressant imaginable; plus antipsychotics, combos-- at least 30 total.
Guess I had to vent a "bit"...But I have read of autopsies revealing Hashimoto;s disease. The autopsies were performed because the person had committed suicide....Depression can be a symptom of hypothyroidism. Last week, I read a post on my thyroid group: Cindi's cousin committed suicide the day before she was supposed to be tested for Hashimoto's. This cousin's father committed suicide as did his sister- Cindi's Mom.
I have even read an article that people who cut (self mutilate have been helped with thyroid medicine!)
Ending this post for now. I just pray some of this info helps just one person....cuz I was SO bad that I cannot say for certain that suicide was NOT in my future....until I was FINALLY diagnosed with Hashi's. Sweet dreams and remember: Never give up in your quest to find answers....it is worth it! I never thought I would get better mentally or physically,,,but I am on my way... florence
Posted by Maxime on March 10, 2005, at 21:53:38
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Questio, posted by florence on March 9, 2005, at 20:37:25
I am joining the group for sure. We can get Armour in Canada but it goes by a different name (maybe Thyroid). I want to take it rather than the Synthroid. I also want to have a complete metabolic panel done ... but my endo won't listen. I see him April. I am going to talk to my pdoc and maybe have him call my endo again (he tried once but it did no good).
Thanks for all your help!
Maxime
Posted by florence on March 11, 2005, at 15:15:47
In reply to Re: Tyroid (T3) Augmentation and Hair Loss Questio » florence, posted by Maxime on March 10, 2005, at 21:53:38
I wish you lots of luck and I hope you do join the thyroid group... Gee, I didn't used to get so many pop-up ads on Psycho Babble in the past..But maybe the Natural Thyroid group at Yahoo gets them too. I would not know since I have the digests of posts sent to me email account. It does get a little difficult to read them all so sometimes I delete them- especially if it is info I already heard before. Happy Spring..florence (who lives in Ohio where there is no sign of Spring: still cold and snowy!
> I am joining the group for sure. We can get Armour in Canada but it goes by a different name (maybe Thyroid). I want to take it rather than the Synthroid. I also want to have a complete metabolic panel done ... but my endo won't listen. I see him April. I am going to talk to my pdoc and maybe have him call my endo again (he tried once but it did no good).
>
> Thanks for all your help!
>
> Maxime
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