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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2005, at 19:41:34
I started at 50 mg but went quickly to 100 mg (at bedtime for what the psychiatrist wrote in his chart as night terrors) and was on it for nearly a year. I was 12, I think. I was pretty compliant about taking it, except for pretending to take one of the two pills some days and hoarding it until I had quite a stash on hand. My grades dipped from straight A's to mostly A's with an occasional A- or B. I still stayed in the top percentile in the class easily. They told me it was Valium, and I didn't find out differently until I got my pediatric chart a few years ago.
Was it really a big deal?
I admit I don't go around telling everyone, because of the stigma. But I don't remember the medication itself being so bad.
Posted by med_empowered on February 27, 2005, at 23:40:08
In reply to Is Thorazine really that bad?, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2005, at 19:41:34
hey! I'm definitely not a pro-neuroleptic person, especially with old ones like Thorazine..that said, I don't think you should be too worried. Thorazine was the first FDA-approved neuroleptic, but it had all kinds of "off-label" uses, such as a treatment for "psychoneurosis". This was true of all other antipsychotics available at the time, as well. What varied most from off-label applications to use in Schizophrenia was DOSAGE, especially in the US. In Europe, doctors generally tried to find the smallest effective dose, so the literature has reports of success in using 100mgs or a couple hundred mgs successfully. In the US, psychiatrists seem to have been reckless. Prominent shrinks called for doses of 1,500mgs, 2,000mgs, doses much higher than those supported by peer-reviewed data. This applied to Thorazine AND other neuroleptics, such as Haldol. Result: while tardive dyskinesia and other problems with neuroleptics were and are reported internationally, it would seem that the US had more problems than the Europeans. Long story short: while I think your docs should have RX'd something with fewer side-effects, like Valium (yes, there's a slight dependency issue, but it seems a small one), I seriously doubt your small doses of Thorazine have caused any major, irreparable harm to you. Good luck!
Posted by Shortelise on February 28, 2005, at 0:24:01
In reply to Is Thorazine really that bad?, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2005, at 19:41:34
I agree that 100 mg's is a very small dose. I was also given it a few times when I was in hospital some 30 years ago, in a small dose like that and it was helpful.
People who take big doses can be like zombies - they walk with arms dangling and seemingly no connection between the parts of their bodies. It's a scary med in that it seems to make people incapable of feeling, or at least of expressing feeling outwardly. But again, that's in large doses.
But it sure seemed to help some people, people who were unable to function, who were just pretty much right out of their trees came down on thorazine, and were able to be around others. It was the only med at the time that seemed to work.
Does that help?
ShortE
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 9:45:34
In reply to Re: Is Thorazine really that bad? » Dinah, posted by Shortelise on February 28, 2005, at 0:24:01
I don't really think I'm worried about what effect it had on me. More that I wonder why people feel so very negatively about a drug that I found fairly benign. And I'm very medication sensitive. In comparison with some of my drug trials lately, Thorazine was a peach.
Maybe it's because of the low doseage I was taking. But I take low doses of everything I take. Truth be told, I like Risperdal as an antianxiety drug too, so maybe I just have good results with AP's.
Posted by med_empowered on February 28, 2005, at 11:04:44
In reply to Re: Is Thorazine really that bad?, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 9:45:34
Thorazine just has a kind of shady history...it was originally used as a pre-op sedative. Docs noticed the apathy it caused their patients and decided to try it on people hospitalized in mental institutions. Deniker, Lehmann, and other early researchers of the drug (the early research was mostly done outside the US) described Thorazine as a sort of "chemical lobotomy". Deniker, a French researcher, was using more low-end doses (300mgs or so); Lehmann's dosage levels varied more, from a couple hundred milligrams up to 2,000+ mgs. Anyway, that's how Thorazine was originally described in the literature: it wasn't called an "anti-psychotic" until the drug reps gave it a makeover. It was originally referred to simply as a "neuroleptic," and doctors tended to emphasize that it could subdue formerly aggressive and unruly patients...it was this aspect of the med, its ability to "tranquilize" the mentally un-well, that seems to have led to Thorazine's incredible success. Contrary to popular belief (and what a lot of shrinks claim), Thorazine and the other neuroleptics didn't empty the mental hospitals; states had actually put de-institutionalization efforts into place around 1951...by 1955, when Thorazine made its way to the US, the movement was already well underway.
Posted by Dinah on March 1, 2005, at 2:05:05
In reply to Re: Is Thorazine really that bad?, posted by med_empowered on February 28, 2005, at 11:04:44
Yeah, that's sort of how they used it on me as well. To tranquilize an unhappy adolescent. I can't say I minded particularly. Nor did I cooperate with other possibilities like therapy or family therapy. So it probably did do what it was supposed to do. It would have been a lot harder to drag myself up by my bootstraps if I hadn't been getting some help sleeping.
With those doses I can see that my attempts at hoarding were probably pretty pathetic.
Posted by Maxime on March 2, 2005, at 9:16:26
In reply to Re: Is Thorazine really that bad? » med_empowered, posted by Dinah on March 1, 2005, at 2:05:05
It's movement disorders that doctors worry about. I take 25 mg to help me sleep every once in a while. I would take it every day because it helps my bipolar illness. Unfortunately I lactate on it. But it keeps me so stable and it has a long half life ... I wish I could use it as part of my cocktail.
Maxime
> Yeah, that's sort of how they used it on me as well. To tranquilize an unhappy adolescent. I can't say I minded particularly. Nor did I cooperate with other possibilities like therapy or family therapy. So it probably did do what it was supposed to do. It would have been a lot harder to drag myself up by my bootstraps if I hadn't been getting some help sleeping.
>
> With those doses I can see that my attempts at hoarding were probably pretty pathetic.
>
Posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2005, at 11:24:31
In reply to Re: Is Thorazine really that bad? » Dinah, posted by Maxime on March 2, 2005, at 9:16:26
Hi Maxime,
>I take 25 mg to help me sleep every once in a while. I would take it every day because it helps my bipolar illness. Unfortunately I lactate on it. But it keeps me so stable and it has a long half life ... I wish I could use it as part of my cocktail.
Have you ever tried a lower dose? Some people can get away with taking as little as 10mg a day- on such a low dose you might not lactate. I think I once heard of an elderly person who did well on 5mg/day, not that you are elderly! Chlorpromazine comes in 10mg, 25mg and 50mg tablets- at least it does in the UK.
Best,
Ed.
Posted by Maxime on March 5, 2005, at 12:37:45
In reply to Re: Is Thorazine really that bad? » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2005, at 11:24:31
> Hi Maxime,
>
> >I take 25 mg to help me sleep every once in a while. I would take it every day because it helps my bipolar illness. Unfortunately I lactate on it. But it keeps me so stable and it has a long half life ... I wish I could use it as part of my cocktail.
>
> Have you ever tried a lower dose? Some people can get away with taking as little as 10mg a day- on such a low dose you might not lactate. I think I once heard of an elderly person who did well on 5mg/day, not that you are elderly! Chlorpromazine comes in 10mg, 25mg and 50mg tablets- at least it does in the UK.
>
> Best,
> Ed.
Hi. It only comes in 25 mg here and sometimes I split the pill in half. I haven't tried using 12.5 mg on a daily basis to see if it helps. When I do take it I use Vitex (alt med) with it. I do retain a lot of water on it.But I should do a trial of 12.5 a day. Although it has a half life of 30 hours ...
We shall see. Right now I don't feel like trying anything.
Thanks for the input. :)
Maxime
Posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2005, at 13:13:12
In reply to Re: Is Thorazine really that bad?, posted by Maxime on March 5, 2005, at 12:37:45
Hi :-)
>I haven't tried using 12.5 mg on a daily basis to see if it helps.
Maybe you should try this the next time you feel agitated.
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
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