![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 51 to 75 of 75. Go back in thread:
Posted by Maxime on February 18, 2005, at 21:57:39
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless, posted by linkadge on February 18, 2005, at 21:19:13
It's the type of PDOC who will prescribe anything different because he does not feel safe doing so because he doesn't use other meds. He hasn't seen depressions like yours.
BTW there was an article in the Montreal Gazette about how SSRI can make you suicidal (I know this isn't a new theory). UK journal will be releasing the results of a ten year study.
Maybe if you make a log of everything you have taken and your response to the cocktail he will listen to you or refer to someone who knows how to treat you.
I wish I could help you.
Maxime
Posted by TamaraJ on February 18, 2005, at 22:05:40
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless » TamaraJ, posted by KaraS on February 18, 2005, at 21:18:31
> Health care is worse here if you don't have money!
-- I have heard. I can only begin to imagine how stressful that must be. We complain about our health care system here (the biggest problems being the waiting times and shortage of doctors), but I think we are still fortunate to have a public health care system that is accessible to all regardless of their tax bracket.
> Linkadge is lucky to have you helping him out. >
-- I haven't done anything. I have just let him know if he needs or wants any help, I will do what I can.Take care Kara.
P.S. Any decision on a new AD?
Posted by TamaraJ on February 18, 2005, at 22:16:02
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless » linkadge, posted by Ritch on February 18, 2005, at 21:56:36
> Maybe you are going to have to tell them what's *off the table* for use. Just tell them that there is NO WAY you are going to take an SSRI or an antipsychotic. You WILL BE NONCOMPLIANT. I have had to tell at least two pdocs that I WILL NOT TAKE ANY ANTIPSYCHOTIC - DO MORE HOMEWORK PLEASE. If you can communicate to them what you will NOT do, then they have to come up with something else. I *did* see a pdoc once that told me NOT to revisit meds that don't work (make you a zombie or feel worse), and wished I would have stuck with that one.
-- That's good advice. And, don't let the pdoc patronize you because you are young. You know what does not work for you based on past experience. And, you have done a lot of research and have become quite knowledgeable about psychotropic meds.
Tamara
Posted by KaraS on February 18, 2005, at 22:21:15
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless » KaraS, posted by TamaraJ on February 18, 2005, at 22:05:40
> > Health care is worse here if you don't have money!
>
> -- I have heard. I can only begin to imagine how stressful that must be. We complain about our health care system here (the biggest problems being the waiting times and shortage of doctors), but I think we are still fortunate to have a public health care system that is accessible to all regardless of their tax bracket.The flipside is that if you have the money, you can get some great care here - assuming you are very proactive and seek out the best.
> > Linkadge is lucky to have you helping him out. >
> -- I haven't done anything. I have just let him know if he needs or wants any help, I will do what I can.
>
> Take care Kara.
>
> P.S. Any decision on a new AD?
>Nothing definite yet. I'll keep you posted in another thread.
k
Posted by KaraS on February 18, 2005, at 22:25:45
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless, posted by linkadge on February 18, 2005, at 21:19:13
> Yes I am going to return to this doctor to at least see what he decides might be wrong.
>
> Doctors are big fans of Paxil and zyprexa around here. Waterloo, Ontario is paxil and zyprexa town. In all likelyhood I will be titrated up to 80mg of paxil over the course of 6 months.
>
>
> After this, any complaint will be responded to with "You know, it takes time to work!"
>
> After 6 months of this, the doctor might say, "have you tried zyprexa?" And when I say yes he will ask how much. I will say 2.5 mg. He will say thats nothing, and prescribe me 10mg of zyprexa to take with my 80mg of paxil.
>
> After this, when I say I'm a zombie, he will ask. When are you taking your medications? I will say the paxil in the morning, and the zyprexa in the evening. He will tell me to take the paxil in the evening and see how that goes for a month.
>
> I will come back a month later, and will tell me that maybe we should try prozac instead.
>
>
> Does anyone understand the wall I'm up against?? Does anyone know the type of doctor which I am talking about? The type of doctor that thinks the reason the paxil didn't work in the past was because "they" weren't the one that prescribed it.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>Maybe you should print out this post of yours and show it to your doctor if he starts down this path. I can't think of a better way to express your frustration and to let him know that you're tired of retrying the same things that haven't worked in the past. It would save you a lot of trouble and frustration in trying to explain things to him.
k
Posted by up'n'down on February 19, 2005, at 2:39:23
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless, posted by linkadge on February 16, 2005, at 22:50:35
> I understand that it can take time. I know they need to gather information, but I feel so helpless when they ask so few important questions.
>
> They don't seem to understand the suffering.
>
> If a person is in a car accident, and they are writhing in phsical pain, the first thing the doctors do is give them morphine no questions asked. They don't sit there for days, weeks, months, years and ask them questions like. Hmm "how long before you noticed the car was going off the road" or what do you think was the main cause of the accident".
>
> They don't do that because they can see the pain that the person is in. They know that every second of that pain is pure hell.
>
> I'm in the same pain. It doesn't end. I just can't sit around while they ask me questions and don't even offer the slightest glimmer of hope.
>
> Pain and waiting just don't mix.
>
> Thanks for your help Tamera, but I can't put you through that. I've got to wait longer. Wait to see this guy again. No doctor will see me if I don't give this one a fair chance.
>
> I'm just so depressed. I can't understand why God even permitted this kind of experience. I don't think I could ever have restored faith after all of this.
>
> Its a nightmare. Nothing else can explain it. The pain I have is unbelievable.
>
> Sometimes I think I am in hell already. I just don't know why there isn't somebody who wanted to see me better. Somebody who said to me "I am not going to leave you untill you feel better". God hasn't been that person. He has left me. That is why people kill themselves, because dispite their pain their creator does nothing.
>
> This is terrable. I've never felt so much pain. I cry so hard. But it doesn't help. Its the futility I feel. Why can't god be more merciful?
> Why is it every man for himself in this cruel world? Why must hope be so fleeting. Why was I born? Why can't I just die?
>
I heard on National Public News that we are now outsourcing medical care-people are choosing to go to places like Thailand to state-of-the-art hospitals with U.S. trained drs. and it costs a fraction of what it would over here. So far, the emphasis is on surgeries, but maybe we better check out mental health care in foreign lands.
Trouble is, I can't afford to travel. Also, I am very pleased with my highly trained and nice pdoc.
I have had some unpleasant experiences, however, with some very tunnel-visioned physicians.
Keep hanging on, and things will get better. U'D
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Posted by Cecilia on February 19, 2005, at 3:38:03
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist is hopeless (Try VNS) » KaraS, posted by jerrympls on February 18, 2005, at 2:37:59
Re the VNS device, once it`s installed, can the patient turn it on and off, for example if it was making him cough or he was in a situation where he didn`t want his voice to be hoarse? Is it on during sleep and do you feel a difference when it`s on-do you actually feel the stimulations-seems like that would drive you nuts! Do the people it works for actually notice an immediate difference between when it`s on vs off or is more of a gradual thing? (It`s so hard to imagine a device like this actually working with something so full of complicated psychological issues as depression, though I guess it`s no different than meds, which obviously do work for many people, though none has ever worked for me.) Thanks for the info! Cecilia
Posted by Greenhornet on February 19, 2005, at 8:22:34
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless, posted by linkadge on February 18, 2005, at 21:19:13
> Yes I am going to return to this doctor to at least see what he decides might be wrong.
>
> Doctors are big fans of Paxil and zyprexa around here. Waterloo, Ontario is paxil and zyprexa town. In all likelyhood I will be titrated up to 80mg of paxil over the course of 6 months.
>
>
> After this, any complaint will be responded to with "You know, it takes time to work!"
>
> After 6 months of this, the doctor might say, "have you tried zyprexa?" And when I say yes he will ask how much. I will say 2.5 mg. He will say thats nothing, and prescribe me 10mg of zyprexa to take with my 80mg of paxil.
>
> After this, when I say I'm a zombie, he will ask. When are you taking your medications? I will say the paxil in the morning, and the zyprexa in the evening. He will tell me to take the paxil in the evening and see how that goes for a month.
>
> I will come back a month later, and will tell me that maybe we should try prozac instead.
>
>
> Does anyone understand the wall I'm up against?? Does anyone know the type of doctor which I am talking about? The type of doctor that thinks the reason the paxil didn't work in the past was because "they" weren't the one that prescribed it.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
> Linkadge-
You have my total sympathy. And I know how long that sort of thng can be dragged out. My solution, you might be aware, was rather simple. I got OFF meds. Yes, I was told that I had difficult to treat depression etc etc....I finally, after thirty years or so, I just got sick of it, turned it all over to God and stopped. I am now weaning off the next to the last med and I have never felt better in my life!
By the way folks this Chemical imbalance crap is just that! Next time you have someone tell you that or that you have an "illness" ask to see the test results, the blood work !! Ha Ha! They have nothing to back up their claim so -- We are an overmedicated society, DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
GREENHORNET
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Posted by Greenhornet on February 19, 2005, at 8:28:13
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless » linkadge, posted by TamaraJ on February 18, 2005, at 21:38:11
> Linkadge,
>
> I know what you are up against and the frustrations of what one can only describe as overly conservative, uncreative and anal doctors in Canada. The pdoc I see has switched me from one AD - one at a time - to another, and has, until recently, refused to even consider an augmenter. I have trialed 5 ADs in a year. I finally got assertive (and, I have to admit, had as much of a fit as I am capable of) and he relented grudgingly and prescribed Provigil to augment my current AD. I struggled with suicidal thoughts and urges for months, but I worked so hard to keep this to myself because I was so afraid I would be hospitalized. That's not to say that my pdoc did know I was severely depressed. I just wanted everything to be ok. But, it was like talking to a brick wall sometimes (you know, the usual, let's talk about your father, let's talk about your mother, let' talk about why you internalize everything including your anger. Sure, when I am thinking more clearly, we'll do just that. Get with the program doc!).
>
> Please take care of yourself. Please know there are people who care. My thoughts are with you.
>> Tamara
Link --
You have a lot of good suggestions here --GH
Posted by Sebastian on February 19, 2005, at 11:44:57
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless, posted by linkadge on February 16, 2005, at 22:50:35
Did you ask the new doctor specificaly for a new med? If not you should call him imediatly and specificaly ask for one any thing some thing different, tell him how bad you are feeling and desperatly need some relife, now, you are losing your mind. He should call back very soon or you are going to find a different doctor and . You can't just get a different docotr can you? Your in canada right. Go to the hospital and explain your case, as an out patient. Or stay a day if you have to, just to get a good med. Your doctor should help you. Tell him its not working and you are going crazy and want some thing different that you can add to the other one. Try zyprexa, just a suggestion. Or some thing else you may think works. Just as a suggestion, some thing like it. I'm not sure your doctor realy knows have you feel, so you should tell him, and make your self heard.
Posted by Maxime on February 19, 2005, at 12:05:42
In reply to Feelings of uselessness, posted by up'n'down on February 19, 2005, at 2:39:23
I have a hero in Mental Health advocacy. She lived in Quebec and now lives in Toronto. Her name is Pat Capponi and she is now an author and mental health advocate. I hope to meet her one day.
In her book "Beyond the Crazy House" she writes the following:
" It is not helpful to believe that the universe has singled you out for destruction .... Asking 'why me?' is a kind of arrogance. No one is guaranteed safe passage through life, and this should tell us it's less about the suffering and challenges than what we do to face them."
I am going to read how to post information about books on this site because I really believe this one that we should all read. And the author has been through so much. In fact, you need to read her first book so that you don't think "yeah, easy for you to say".
I think it's time for me to read this book once again ....
Maxime
Posted by ed_uk on February 19, 2005, at 12:49:09
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless, posted by linkadge on February 18, 2005, at 21:19:13
>Does anyone know the type of doctor which I am talking about?
Wow, Canada's starting to sound a lot like the UK!
Ed.
Posted by Maxime on February 19, 2005, at 13:15:24
In reply to To Linkage and others in the same boat, posted by Maxime on February 19, 2005, at 12:05:42
----For Psycho-Babblers in the US-----
(I hope I have done this double quotes properly or did it need to be the subject line???)
"Upstairs in the Crazy House: The Life of a Psychiatric Survivor"
"Beyond the Crazy House: Changing the Future of Madness"
----Canadian Psycho-Babblers------
Now THIS is crazy. Her first book is only available on the US Amazon site. It's temporarily unavailable on the Canada site (both amazon.ca and Indigo/Chapters. But here is the information for her second book (included Chapters/Indigo)
Beyond the Crazy House - Changing the Future for Madness
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Item=978014100510&Catalog=Books&N=35&Lang=en&Section=books&zxac=1
http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0141005106/qid=1108838110/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/701-1252945-4617156
-------For Psycho-Babblers across the pond------Upstairs in the Crazy House: The Life of a Psychiatric Survivor
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0670838985/qid=1108839240/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_8_1/026-6184763-3166021Beyond the Crazy House: Changing the Future of Madness
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0141005106/qid=1108839319/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_8_3/026-6184763-3166021
------Australian and NZ Babblers-----Tried to find the best site for you but I read that it is cheaper for you to buy book from the UK or US, although the shipping is expensive. Out of curiosity where do you buy books online when you do.
----All other Babblers------
I can only do so much. :) But I KNOW that everyone here will love these two books.
Maxime
Carpe Diem
Posted by linkadge on February 19, 2005, at 17:11:45
In reply to Re: To Linkage and others in the same boat - books, posted by Maxime on February 19, 2005, at 13:15:24
One of the problems I see is this.
THe medications help but they do so much more.
Sometimes the clinical effect only superceeds the side effects by a very narrow margin.
I think the world would be a lot happier, and saner if we had some potent 5-ht1a receptor agonists on our hands.
Linkadge
Posted by jerrympls on February 19, 2005, at 18:22:12
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist is hopeless (Try VNS) » jerrympls, posted by KaraS on February 18, 2005, at 16:05:58
> > > > > I'm not certain where you live (Canada?), but I recollect you built your own TMS device so you'd likely consider this idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know that Vagus Nerve Stimulation was recently approved for those who have treatment resistant depression. Cyberonic estimates the availability of the device by May 2005. If I didn't know otherwise, you are good candidate, agreed?
> > > > >
> > > > > Surive and then live.
> > > >
> > > > YES - Try for VNS. I was in the d-2 study. It didn't work for me - but I think that was because they were constantly fooling with the settings to find the therapeutic range. I know of many others who were in the study here and VNS changed their lives - and it just might change yours for the better. Hopefully insurance will pay. Goto http://www.cyberonics.com to check it out. Email me or babblemail me for more info. I thought VNS was my last choice - but even tho it didn't work FOR ME - it opened new doors - I got to see top notch psychiattrists.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > >
> > > Jerry,
> > > How major is the surgery involved?
> > >
> > > Kara
> >
> > The surgery wasn't so bad. It lasts about an hour. They implant the pocket watch sized implant under your skin right beneath your left collar bone and then tunnel the lead wire up under your skin along the left side of your neck. The other incision is about 2 inches long - usually in a crease on the left side of your neck - they open that up to get at the vegal nerve and connect the lead. I had mine done in the morning and was released in the late afternoon. There was pain of course - stiffness and soreness around the incisions sites. I was able to go back to work in under a week. You don't feel the implant at all because it's so light and small. If it doesn't work out or complications arise from the surgery - it is completely reversable. Some people with asthma have exasterbation of their symptoms when the device goes off (usually set every 5 mins for 30 seconds). Also, depending on the settings of the device, it can effect your voice because the vegal nerve is so close to the vocal chords. At one high setting they had me at, I sounded like I was talking into a fan - like a robot - when the device went off. Other times at different settings my voice would go a bit hoarse. It's hardly noticable to others - but for others the device doesn't have any "side effects." Again- it depends on the settings.
> >
> > Also - scarring isn't an issue. I have photos of my incisions if anyone is interested in viewing them. Let me know and I'll post a link.
> >
> > Jerry
>
>
> Jerry,
> Do you feel that you didn't really give it an adequate trial since they weren't sure of what your settings should be? Would you check it out further in the future? Also, you said you did know others in the same study who were helped immensely? It probably costs close to $30k to try this, doesn't it? I think the cost would be prohibitive to most people.
>
> k
>Hi!
Yes I gave it an adequate trial. I had it on for about 2 years. One big drawback for me was that it exasterbated my asthma. Also, the researchers basically told me - it's not working for you - and they recommended having it removed which I did. Yes I did know a couple people from the study that it helped immensely. I didn't know many others in MY study because there were strict confidentiality policies. The cost in Minnesota anyway was around $20,000 - $10k for the device and $10k for the surgery and after care. I believe insurance will be paying for this treatment now that it's approved. Cyberonics wants this to be successful so they are working hard to get insurance companies to pay for it.
Jerry
Posted by jerrympls on February 19, 2005, at 18:36:50
In reply to Questions for Jerrympis about VNS, posted by Cecilia on February 19, 2005, at 3:38:03
> Re the VNS device, once it`s installed, can the patient turn it on and off, for example if it was making him cough or he was in a situation where he didn`t want his voice to be hoarse? Is it on during sleep and do you feel a difference when it`s on-do you actually feel the stimulations-seems like that would drive you nuts! Do the people it works for actually notice an immediate difference between when it`s on vs off or is more of a gradual thing? (It`s so hard to imagine a device like this actually working with something so full of complicated psychological issues as depression, though I guess it`s no different than meds, which obviously do work for many people, though none has ever worked for me.) Thanks for the info! Cecilia
Hi Cecilia!
Ad far as it being on and off it deeply varies from person to person and from setting to setting. There are multiple setting variables - it's not just up and down. But I can tell you MY experience. When they had it set at a higher setting, yes I could feel it going off - a little tickle in my throat. YES you can turn it off if you experience any pain or coughing or need it off during public speaking (if it does effect your voice) They provice you with a small but powerful magnet. If you hold or tape the magnet over the device it stops it. This is what I did when I had to speak in meetings. The stimulation didn't drive me nuts - but it did frustrate me a bit. However - if it had worked for me I would have put up with it - meaning it wasn't that big of a deal if it had wiped my depression out.
Yes it's on when you sleep - but it doesn't effect your sleep and you don't notice it. The first souple nights I had it on and went to bed I was a little worried I'd be up all night being interrupted by the stimulation - but this was NOT the case.
The device sends a small electrical signal up into a specific part of the brain that control emotion via the vegal nerve. The Vegal nerve is the the body's way to connect your brain to your 2nd "brain" in your gut. Actually you have 2 vegal nerves one on each side of your neck. 80% of the signals traveling via the nerves are going into the brain helping your digestive proceses, etc communicate & report to your brain. Because most of the info goes upstream into the brain, researchers found that perhaps by boosting the "signal" to the brain - the unbalanced emotion centers in the brain would work "at full capacity" thus bringing everything back into balance and helping the brain to remit the depression.
The device was originally developed for those with severe TR epilepsy. You can read more at http://www.cyberonics.com .
Hope this helps!
Jerry
Posted by KaraS on February 19, 2005, at 20:23:00
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist is hopeless (Try VNS) » KaraS, posted by jerrympls on February 19, 2005, at 18:22:12
> > > > > > I'm not certain where you live (Canada?), but I recollect you built your own TMS device so you'd likely consider this idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know that Vagus Nerve Stimulation was recently approved for those who have treatment resistant depression. Cyberonic estimates the availability of the device by May 2005. If I didn't know otherwise, you are good candidate, agreed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Surive and then live.
> > > > >
> > > > > YES - Try for VNS. I was in the d-2 study. It didn't work for me - but I think that was because they were constantly fooling with the settings to find the therapeutic range. I know of many others who were in the study here and VNS changed their lives - and it just might change yours for the better. Hopefully insurance will pay. Goto http://www.cyberonics.com to check it out. Email me or babblemail me for more info. I thought VNS was my last choice - but even tho it didn't work FOR ME - it opened new doors - I got to see top notch psychiattrists.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jerry,
> > > > How major is the surgery involved?
> > > >
> > > > Kara
> > >
> > > The surgery wasn't so bad. It lasts about an hour. They implant the pocket watch sized implant under your skin right beneath your left collar bone and then tunnel the lead wire up under your skin along the left side of your neck. The other incision is about 2 inches long - usually in a crease on the left side of your neck - they open that up to get at the vegal nerve and connect the lead. I had mine done in the morning and was released in the late afternoon. There was pain of course - stiffness and soreness around the incisions sites. I was able to go back to work in under a week. You don't feel the implant at all because it's so light and small. If it doesn't work out or complications arise from the surgery - it is completely reversable. Some people with asthma have exasterbation of their symptoms when the device goes off (usually set every 5 mins for 30 seconds). Also, depending on the settings of the device, it can effect your voice because the vegal nerve is so close to the vocal chords. At one high setting they had me at, I sounded like I was talking into a fan - like a robot - when the device went off. Other times at different settings my voice would go a bit hoarse. It's hardly noticable to others - but for others the device doesn't have any "side effects." Again- it depends on the settings.
> > >
> > > Also - scarring isn't an issue. I have photos of my incisions if anyone is interested in viewing them. Let me know and I'll post a link.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> >
> >
> > Jerry,
> > Do you feel that you didn't really give it an adequate trial since they weren't sure of what your settings should be? Would you check it out further in the future? Also, you said you did know others in the same study who were helped immensely? It probably costs close to $30k to try this, doesn't it? I think the cost would be prohibitive to most people.
> >
> > k
> >
>
> Hi!
>
> Yes I gave it an adequate trial. I had it on for about 2 years. One big drawback for me was that it exasterbated my asthma. Also, the researchers basically told me - it's not working for you - and they recommended having it removed which I did. Yes I did know a couple people from the study that it helped immensely. I didn't know many others in MY study because there were strict confidentiality policies. The cost in Minnesota anyway was around $20,000 - $10k for the device and $10k for the surgery and after care. I believe insurance will be paying for this treatment now that it's approved. Cyberonics wants this to be successful so they are working hard to get insurance companies to pay for it.
>
> Jerry
>Thanks, Jerry. I hope you've been able to find medication or other things that are helping you.
Kara
Posted by jerrympls on February 19, 2005, at 20:39:10
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist is hopeless (Try VNS) » jerrympls, posted by KaraS on February 19, 2005, at 20:23:00
> Thanks, Jerry. I hope you've been able to find medication or other things that are helping you.
>
> Kara
>
>Thanks Kara!
Yes, I am fortunate enough to have a doctor who has allowed me to augment my current cocktail (Lexapro, Dexedrine) with an opiate (hydrocodone). It has been working wonderfully. It took me 13 years to find a doc willing so I'm sticking with him.
Hope all is well with you!
Jerry
Posted by up'n'down on February 19, 2005, at 23:11:31
In reply to Re: Its over for me. New psychiatrist is hopeless » linkadge, posted by Greenhornet on February 19, 2005, at 8:22:34
> > Yes I am going to return to this doctor to at least see what he decides might be wrong.
> >
> > Doctors are big fans of Paxil and zyprexa around here. Waterloo, Ontario is paxil and zyprexa town. In all likelyhood I will be titrated up to 80mg of paxil over the course of 6 months.
> >
> >
> > After this, any complaint will be responded to with "You know, it takes time to work!"
> >
> > After 6 months of this, the doctor might say, "have you tried zyprexa?" And when I say yes he will ask how much. I will say 2.5 mg. He will say thats nothing, and prescribe me 10mg of zyprexa to take with my 80mg of paxil.
> >
> > After this, when I say I'm a zombie, he will ask. When are you taking your medications? I will say the paxil in the morning, and the zyprexa in the evening. He will tell me to take the paxil in the evening and see how that goes for a month.
> >
> > I will come back a month later, and will tell me that maybe we should try prozac instead.
> >
> >
> > Does anyone understand the wall I'm up against?? Does anyone know the type of doctor which I am talking about? The type of doctor that thinks the reason the paxil didn't work in the past was because "they" weren't the one that prescribed it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Linkadge
> >
> >
> > Linkadge-
> You have my total sympathy. And I know how long that sort of thng can be dragged out. My solution, you might be aware, was rather simple. I got OFF meds. Yes, I was told that I had difficult to treat depression etc etc....I finally, after thirty years or so, I just got sick of it, turned it all over to God and stopped. I am now weaning off the next to the last med and I have never felt better in my life!
> By the way folks this Chemical imbalance crap is just that! Next time you have someone tell you that or that you have an "illness" ask to see the test results, the blood work !! Ha Ha! They have nothing to back up their claim so -- We are an overmedicated society, DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
> GREENHORNET
I am very sorry you feel this way. I know it is discouraging using meds and then they change as your body changes, and lose some or all of their effectiveness.
You have a right to your opinion, but I feel like you are in essence saying that we who are taking meds are a bunch of suckers. I would not like to see what would happen if all of the people taking antidepressants, antianxiety meds, antipanic meds, etc. stopped taking them.
I am concerned that you are feeling real good now, but once all your meds have cleared your system and the stress begins full force, you could have a very unpleasant rebound effect. Keep us informed as to how you do, and if you do go in to a reaction, remember we arehere to talk to. U'D
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Posted by Phillipa on February 19, 2005, at 23:50:08
In reply to To Green Hornet, posted by up'n'down on February 19, 2005, at 23:11:31
I'll second that. Well put. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by greenhornet on February 20, 2005, at 11:01:18
In reply to Re: To Green Hornet » up'n'down, posted by Phillipa on February 19, 2005, at 23:50:08
> I'll second that. Well put. Fondly, Phillipa
Naturally I fully expected that that would be the response to my comments.
Let me reply with the following:
I have been off everything but the Wellbutrin and the Lexapro for over seven months. The inability to get off the Lexapro is the problem now. One has to ask, if these chemicals are supposed to be good for us, why the withdrawal? I never had symptoms such as I have now.Here is a quote from a from a psychiatrist himself:
"In my opinion, the APA is so dependent on pharmaceutical company support that it can not afford to criticize the overuse and misuse of psychotropic drugs. Perhaps more importantly, the APA is unwilling to mandate education of psychiatrists about the the seriousness of the short and long-term toxicities and withdrawal reactions from the drugs.
Loren Mosher, M.D Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, School of Medicine, University of California, San Diego
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/mosher.loren.1.htmThere is more that I have discovered in the past several years believe me.
I think that perhaps at this point I should say that I am both a registered nurse with a Masters Degree/speciality in Adult Mental Health, and a licensed Clinical psychologist (PsyD)
I worked in the field for a total of twenty years. My husband is a retired physician who, in thirty-five years practice of Internal Medicine hardley been left ignorant of medication or of psychiatry.
Two of our son's are also physicians.
We are not alone in our beliefs. We certainly did not come to these conclusions quickly.
While I could say more that is probably sufficient for now.
Remember, in several posts I have said DO YOUR HOMEWORK -- can you honestly say that you have done the homework?
Or is everything you know really a statement of the American Psychiatric Assoc., drug companies information about their products or information from physicians whoses source is simply one of the above?
I empathisize with you who have been diagnosed with a problem that has then led to medication or even multiple medications. However, I have also witnessed what a difference good, broad, multi-source education and a total attitude/life conversion CAN make; not just in myself, but in others too.
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/ritalin.htm
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/325/7378/1433
http://www.oikos.org/antipsicen.htmI do not agree with some of what the above sites provide,and of course there is certainly far more out there than what is on the web. Some of the information provided on the above links is quite eye opening -- if you are willing to take the time and learn.
Greenhornet
Posted by Justherself54 on February 21, 2005, at 15:51:26
In reply to Re: To Green Hornet, posted by greenhornet on February 20, 2005, at 11:01:18
When you are in the depths of depression, where your life if deviod of joy, hope and faith, it is hard to nearly impossible to try to educate yourself. You can't concentrate or focus on anything but the pain you are in. I had been treated as unipolar for 20 years until I had to enter a crisis centre as I was crying for 10 hours a day or staying up all night playing computer games. It wasn't until I was in the crisis centre that a pnurse listened to some of my history and called in the on-call pdoc. He offered to take me as a patient. We have worked hard for over a year to try to get me stabilized. I am not there yet but I now have hope. He returns my phone calls within 2 hours, is very supportive and has referred me for a second opinion on meds. If I didn't go on medication I would be dead. It was that bad. Maybe some day I can also be medication free, but that is not my priority right now.
When I read the first post, my heart went out as that was exactly what I felt like. It wasn't until we worked hard and tweaked and tweaked and tweaked my meds that I now feel hope.
I live in a very small town in Manitoba. The crisis centre is an hour away but the nurses come to your residence and talk to you. The centre is a guiet haven, where you start getting the proper sleep and nutrition. It is staffed 24/7. If poor Manitoba has these facilites, I can't understand why Ontario and Quebec don't. Try to find out if there is a crisis centre close AND GO THERE. It saved my life.
My heart is with you
Posted by greenhornet on February 21, 2005, at 16:56:18
In reply to Re: To Green Hornet » greenhornet, posted by Justherself54 on February 21, 2005, at 15:51:26
> When you are in the depths of depression, where your life if deviod of joy, hope and faith, it is hard to nearly impossible to try to educate yourself. You can't concentrate or focus on anything but the pain you are in. I had been treated as unipolar for 20 years until I had to enter a crisis centre as I was crying for 10 hours a day or staying up all night playing computer games. It wasn't until I was in the crisis centre that a pnurse listened to some of my history and called in the on-call pdoc. He offered to take me as a patient. We have worked hard for over a year to try to get me stabilized. I am not there yet but I now have hope. He returns my phone calls within 2 hours, is very supportive and has referred me for a second opinion on meds. If I didn't go on medication I would be dead. It was that bad. Maybe some day I can also be medication free, but that is not my priority right now.
>
> When I read the first post, my heart went out as that was exactly what I felt like. It wasn't until we worked hard and tweaked and tweaked and tweaked my meds that I now feel hope.
>
> I live in a very small town in Manitoba. The crisis centre is an hour away but the nurses come to your residence and talk to you. The centre is a guiet haven, where you start getting the proper sleep and nutrition. It is staffed 24/7. If poor Manitoba has these facilites, I can't understand why Ontario and Quebec don't. Try to find out if there is a crisis centre close AND GO THERE. It saved my life.
>
> My heart is with youI absolutly understand what you are saying. I did not say that educating ones self should be done while in the midst of a dark time. Do it now or whenever you are feeling better.
Posted by Phillipa on February 21, 2005, at 17:15:47
In reply to Re: To Green Hornet » Justherself54, posted by greenhornet on February 21, 2005, at 16:56:18
It's funny, I just E-mailed my daughter and told I would like to do crisis intervention if I ever go back to work as an RN again. The only trouble is, they just don't have facilities around here like you describe. The closest thing would be a detox center. All the other jobs for pRN's are in the hospital. Of course, if you have a Masters or above there are additional jobs available. Greenhornet, you are smart that you decided to further your education when you did. At 58, it's too late to do this. Now I'm not saying it's too late to go to school, but here where I live there is nothing available. If we're able to return to Greenville, Then ECU is available, and also the Detox Center. But, even when I worked with the affiliated hospital as a charge RN in psych, there were no jobs available there. They only employed l per shift, and believe me no one quit. it was a great job. Now i haven't worked at all for 8 years, and there are so many more qualified RN's out there. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by up'n'down on February 26, 2005, at 0:35:48
In reply to Re: To Green Hornet, posted by greenhornet on February 20, 2005, at 11:01:18
Your list of credentials as well as your family's is full of medical learning. However, I am sorry you are speaking out so strongly against information proving there is physiological abnormalities which cause mental/emotional malfunctions. As I said before, you are entitled to your opinions, but not if they might bring harm to someone who is in a vulnerable condition, and would take your advice as something to try and bring great harm to themselves. One of the first articles on panic disorder was in the New England Journal of Medicine, and it showed the theory of the process of the disease, and then proceeded to explain the reasons; the reasons were verified by tests, and the volunteers were "paniced", the remedy was applied, and the people "unpaniced".
If there is no need for medication, why are we different than other people, and why does medication help a lot of people?
I would hope that if any of you had a patient who was diabetic, you wouldn't tell them not to take their insulin. I actually know of a physician who did that, and told the lady to cleanse her system with saline enemas. Needless to say, the young wife and mother is no longer on this earth, having gone into renal failure.
I am not trying to change your mind about how you feel abouts meds; I am just attempting some damage control, so others won't be swayed in the wrong direction for them.
This is the end of the thread.
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