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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Euvega on January 17, 2005, at 22:58:38
I have been taking Nardil for eight years. I take 60 to 75 mg a day. I have gained over 70 pounds since I started, I use to be skinny, now I weigh 250 pounds. It also gives me insomnia, I have to take Ambien 5mg, and Zyprexa 5mg to get to sleep at night. Has anyone else had these experiences?
Posted by johnsmith12345 on January 17, 2005, at 23:12:02
In reply to Nardil Side Effects and Weight Gain, posted by Euvega on January 17, 2005, at 22:58:38
I don't know about insomnia, but Nardil has a reputation for causing weight gain. Have you considered switching to Parnate? If it fails you can always come back to Nardil. Unless there is a similar phenomenon to the SSRIs in which some medications can permanently lose their effectiveness if you take a break. Hopefully someone else will know more about this.
Posted by King Vultan on January 18, 2005, at 8:09:06
In reply to Nardil Side Effects and Weight Gain, posted by Euvega on January 17, 2005, at 22:58:38
> I have been taking Nardil for eight years. I take 60 to 75 mg a day. I have gained over 70 pounds since I started, I use to be skinny, now I weigh 250 pounds. It also gives me insomnia, I have to take Ambien 5mg, and Zyprexa 5mg to get to sleep at night. Has anyone else had these experiences?
I was on Nardil from about March to August last year at dosages up to 105 mg/day; although, I think 75 to 90 mg/day was probably the ideal range for me. I did gain weight, but some of that was because I was overly skinny to begin with, having just come off desipramine, which acts as a powerful appetite suppressant for me.
There seem to be two main factors affecting weight gain on these drugs. One is metabolism, and one is appetite. My impression was that Nardil did not greatly increase my appetite, but I believe it did slow down my metabolism, and it seemed fairly easy to gain weight on it. I was running over 20 miles a week and holding my own, but the weight issue is an important one for me, and this is one of the reasons I decided to go on to Parnate.
Parnate seems to have increased my appetite at 60 mg/day; however, I do not believe it has slowed down my metabolism, and it may have actually increased it slightly for all I know. Another thing is that I am just naturally more active on Parnate, and it has helped give me the drive to lift weights more often, which increases muscle and will cause a person to burn more calories even at rest. I don't know how much weight I would have put on Nardil had I remained on it for years, but my guess is that it would have been more than most of the drugs I've tried.
Keep in mind that the Zyprexa is not doing you any good in the weight department, either. It has a very strong histamine H1 blockade, which tends to increase appetite and slow down metabolism. Seroquel may be a better choice among the atypical APs for sleep because it has a much shorter half life than does Zyprexa, but I do not have any personal experience with these two drugs. I had bad insomnia on Nardil, and it is even worse on Parnate. My current sleep combo is 5 mg Ambien + 25 mg Benadryl one night, alternating with 0.25 mg Halcion/triazolam by itself the next. I am also taking 0.375 mg Risperdal at bedtime, soon to go up to 0.5 mg, but I have found this to have few benefits so far sleepwise, other than that I am definitely dreaming more.
Todd
Posted by smith562 on January 18, 2005, at 19:22:34
In reply to Re: Nardil Side Effects and Weight Gain, posted by King Vultan on January 18, 2005, at 8:09:06
My weight gain from nardil was secondary to hypoglyemia. Nardil is know to impair the liver's ability to synthesize glucose ... sugar. You need to produce sugar for you brain in between meals or brain cells die (and fast-insulin coma-no sugar, dead brain cells). So I had tremendous carbohyrade craving between meals. All that sugar packed on 30 lbs of fat. Nothing resolved this problem except stopping nardil.
Hope this helped
Smith
Posted by gardenergirl on January 18, 2005, at 20:26:38
In reply to Re: Nardil Side Effects and Weight Gain, posted by smith562 on January 18, 2005, at 19:22:34
I've gained about 50 pounds on 60 mg of Nardil over the last year. I got pretty significant insomnia at doses over 60 mg.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 18, 2005, at 20:30:39
In reply to Re: Nardil Side Effects and Weight Gain, posted by smith562 on January 18, 2005, at 19:22:34
> My weight gain from nardil was secondary to hypoglyemia. Nardil is know to impair the liver's ability to synthesize glucose ... sugar. You need to produce sugar for you brain in between meals or brain cells die (and fast-insulin coma-no sugar, dead brain cells). So I had tremendous carbohyrade craving between meals. All that sugar packed on 30 lbs of fat. Nothing resolved this problem except stopping nardil.
Aha, this makes sense to me. I know from my own experience as well as my husband's, who is diabetic, that it takes time for food to alleviate hypoglycemia symptoms. That may be why I have been binging on Nardil when I did not before. Perhaps I keep eating until I feel the effect, even though I could have stopped and waited for my blood sugar to catch up.
This may give me something to use to work on reducing the binges.
Thanks!
gg
>
> Hope this helped
>
> Smith
Posted by smith562 on January 18, 2005, at 20:41:02
In reply to Re: Nardil Side Effects and Weight Gain » smith562, posted by gardenergirl on January 18, 2005, at 20:30:39
Yeah ... its very interesting. I finally found that out in a pharmacology book. I studied science and knew all about "gluconeogenesis" ... sugar made in the liver to provide a steady stream of glucose/sugar to the brain. I work in a hospital so I use to have the nurse check my blood sugar ... whenever I had a craving=low blood sugar. I actually would awake from ambien induced sleep every morning around 4 due to low blood sugar.
I guess the key is to feed yourself pure sugar .... like soda or orange juice. I think what got me fat was eating food high in carbs and *fat*. I was eatting hostess pies and donuts which are excellent to raise the sugar, but the fat just clogges your arteries and put on the pounds.
Thanks for your input
Smith
Posted by Euvega on January 18, 2005, at 22:23:11
In reply to Re: Nardil Side Effects and Weight Gain » gardenergirl, posted by smith562 on January 18, 2005, at 20:41:02
Thankyou so much everyone, you're input and experiences are amazing and valuable, even after 8 years I never was told what was causing the weight gain. Thanks so much :)
Posted by smith562 on January 19, 2005, at 6:57:05
In reply to Re: Nardil Side Effects and Weight Gain, posted by Euvega on January 18, 2005, at 22:23:11
BTW ... there is also another small component of weight gain I didn't talk about. As I mentioned previously, the hydrazine MAOIs (nardil and marplan) all cause mild inflamation in the liver. With any inflamation of liver, blood does not filter through as well and some people end up with edema (swollen) ankles.
So fluid retention in the ankles also adds to the weight gain.
Smith
Posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2005, at 10:49:24
In reply to Re: Nardil and Fluid Retention, posted by smith562 on January 19, 2005, at 6:57:05
Got that, too. Ugh. Makes me feel like an old lady.
gg
Posted by smith562 on January 19, 2005, at 14:03:43
In reply to Re: Nardil and Fluid Retention » smith562, posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2005, at 10:49:24
Despite all the side effects, I do feel the best on nardil. I saw that guru Dr Fredrick Quitken about nardil to ask him about the side effects. He did most of the pioneering work with nardil and panic/atypical depression. He told me, "Well, nardil works for 90% of patients, but 75% can not tolerate the side effects." He later told me he doesn't use it anymore ... uses prozac instead.
Smith
Posted by Tai Chi on January 19, 2005, at 19:12:05
In reply to Re: Nardil Side Effects and Weight Gain » gardenergirl, posted by smith562 on January 18, 2005, at 20:41:02
After several months of experimentation and reading about various diets, I finally managed to eliminate carbohydrate cravings and to minimize food cravings on Nardil by following a low carbohydrate diet: less than 30 grams of carbohydrate per day (from nuts and salad). The majority of my calories come from fat. With this regimen, I have absolutely no craving for carbohydrates. Cravings for food occasionally still occur, but I can satisfy them with a snack of nuts, with no measurable impact on my weight. I do a moderate amount of exercise (walking, Tai chi) every day. I have a sedentary job. My weight has stayed constant for 18 months on Nardil, following this strict regimen.
I realize that everyone has a unique metabolism and what may work for me may not work for another. However, I was inspired by the very low carbohydrate Inuit diet, especially the observations of Stefansson (see http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm). I did a lot of research on the web, trying to find solutions to food craving and weight gain with Nardil and other antidepressants. There really wasn’t much useful information from the conventional nutritional community, other than the suggestion to switch antidepressants! For me, this isn’t an option. I cannot function without medication, I’m treatment resistant, and now that I have finally found something that works well, I wouldn’t risk a change.
Posted by stresser on January 20, 2005, at 15:10:11
In reply to Re: Nardil ... the Best and Worst » gardenergirl, posted by smith562 on January 19, 2005, at 14:03:43
Why use Prozac? Does is not cause weight gain?-L
Posted by smith562 on January 22, 2005, at 22:22:22
In reply to Re: Nardil ... the Best and Worst » smith562, posted by stresser on January 20, 2005, at 15:10:11
I am just totally guessing, but I bet he uses Prozac because 1)it has been reported to be helpful for "atypical" depression ... Quitken really did alot of research into atypical depression. This has never been proven, while MAOIs have been shown to be superior in atypical patients. 2) Many docs in NYC at scared to use MAOI because of Libby Zion ... she died on an MAOI and the parent sued the pants off a bunch of docs in NYC.
Yes ... prozac can cause weight gain
Smith
> Why use Prozac? Does is not cause weight gain?-L
Posted by stresser on January 23, 2005, at 18:29:33
In reply to Re: Prozac because of Libby and Atypical » stresser, posted by smith562 on January 22, 2005, at 22:22:22
I read on the internet that prozac is sometimes used for people that have bulemia and can cause loss of appetite. That may be in just some cases. Is it know to cause weight gain in more people than weight loss?-L
Posted by smith562 on January 23, 2005, at 18:51:56
In reply to Re: Prozac because of Libby and Atypical, posted by stresser on January 23, 2005, at 18:29:33
I attended a talk about weight loss medications. Prozac was covered for about 10 minutes. The speaker said there were a few studies performed with Prozac and long term most patient gained about 5 lbs. Short term (1st six months) there was mild weight loss. Prozac has been abandoned as a weight loss medication.
Smith
> I read on the internet that prozac is sometimes used for people that have bulemia and can cause loss of appetite. That may be in just some cases. Is it know to cause weight gain in more people than weight loss?-L
Posted by stresser on January 24, 2005, at 10:49:11
In reply to Re: Prozac because of Libby and Atypical » stresser, posted by smith562 on January 23, 2005, at 18:51:56
Thank you so very much!! I appreciate your help.-L
This is the end of the thread.
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