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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by sabre on January 10, 2005, at 14:51:42
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day3, posted by darkhorse on January 10, 2005, at 6:38:40
Hi borderliner
Don't despair. Have you read this:
http://www.beatcfsandfms.org/html/NaStrategy.htmlWellbutrin is another drug you could consider if you think your problem is an NA and dopamine problem.
Have you looked at the Babble Alternative pages?
I have tried tryptophan and found it awful but my experiments with tryosine, phenylalanine and magnesium have yielded more positive results.This page lists some of the major neurotransmitters and associated supplements (although the table at the bottom doesn't list tyrosine as a supplement for NA):
http://incrediblehorizons.com/Balance1devel%20page.htm
Besides the obvious benefits of being natural, supplements seems to give you hints as to where your biochemistry might be failing without having to endure using the trial and error prescription drug pathway.
I hope things get better.
sabre
Posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2005, at 18:07:27
In reply to Re: Reboxetine » ed_uk, posted by borderliner on January 9, 2005, at 22:22:49
Hi,
>What are the usual drugs for augmentation with reboxetine?
It's much too early to being thinking about augmentation! You're still in the very early stages of treatment. It can take weeks for the therapeutic effect to stabilise. Don't give up hope :-) To be honest, since reboxetine is still so new, there aren't really any 'typical' drugs which are used to augment it. There are many options which you could try though.
>how would i know if it were my dopamine or serotonin levels that needed a boost?
There is no definate way that you can know. You can get a good idea of which type of med you would respond to based on which symptoms you have. What are your main symptoms?
Stay hopeful, it's still early days...
Ed.
Posted by borderliner on January 10, 2005, at 23:08:05
In reply to Reboxetine?, posted by borderliner on January 6, 2005, at 9:24:02
well its day four. i feel like crap. 5 hours sleep last night, an annoying cold and i feel like all my other problems have intensified. Yet they havent changed. its still the same, i gotta get back into gear, get a job and move out of this stress centre of a household. Somewhere along there i gotta quit smoking. and atm most of my anxiety(thats come out of no where today) is centred on not smoking. I want to give up but i fail. *scratches head* after hours of research over a long period of time on the subject of tobacco and nicotine withdrawal and meds to help, herbs to help, vitamins to help. Ive got them all up in my cupboard, to be used as i pleased but i dont seem to be able to.
i feel extremely hindered. an anxiety charged mind in a tired body isnt the greatest.
i really dunno anymore
Posted by cache-monkey on January 11, 2005, at 11:29:34
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day4, posted by borderliner on January 10, 2005, at 23:08:05
Hi Borderliner,
I just want to echo something that, I believe, has already been said in this thread. It's really important to get your mental health (primarily anxiety, right?) in order *before* a quit attempt.
It sounds like smoking is really contributing to your anxiety. So, I can understand the temptation to hurry up and quit. I was in the same boat a year and a few months ago. The thing for me was that quitting smoking really destabilized an already stressful situation. Sent me on a strong downward spiral into the depths of anxiety and panic. I started smoking again, and I have made a concious decision to wait until I'm in a stable place to try to quit again.
You should consider doing the same. The more anxiety you pack into your smoking habit, the harder it will be to recover mentally to a place where you're actually prepared to quit. (A kind of catch-22.) It might be useful to do something like telling yourself: this isn't a sign that I'm weak, it's just something I have to do for now. I think of it as a form of medicine almost.
Hopefully, you and I will both get medicines in place to get a basic stability from which a quit attempt seems reasonable. I, myself, am looking into Wellbutrin and low-dose selegiline. Wellbutrin (along with nortryptiline, the TCA) have been repeatedly demonstrated to show benefits for smoking cessation. There is starting to small-sampled clinical evidence on selegiline.
I don't know about Reboxetine, but since its mechanisms of action are similar to Wellbutrin it might help you out. I'd really suggest giving it a full trial, and then seeing how it's treating you once the start-up side effects diminish and it settles into whatever the therapeutic effect ends up being. This can take a few weeks, so be patient. (Which is often the hardest thing when you have so much anxiety, trust me, I know.)
Best of luck,
cache-monkey
Posted by borderliner on January 11, 2005, at 17:30:05
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day4 » borderliner, posted by cache-monkey on January 11, 2005, at 11:29:34
all of my problems are escalated by living here, i cant leave here until my head is in gear and im working... what do i do except run a warm bath and die it red with my own blood. i really dont think reboxetine is for me. im in too much of a state. i went and saw my GP yesterday and told him ive been feeling worse physically(flu symptoms) and mentally (am being pulled towards suicide by the second.
i dont know what to do.
Posted by borderliner on January 11, 2005, at 22:34:26
In reply to Reboxetine?, posted by borderliner on January 6, 2005, at 9:24:02
well i had a bad start but today has been ok i guess. still have this cold which the dr said will pass. i am really considering throwing the Reboxetine away and gettin some prozac. haveing borderline personality i dont think a simple NARI is going to cause too much remission. I dont think i can wait the time its going to take to have a serotonergic effect. my mood is at an all time low and i am becoming more and more aggressive.
what i would really like to do is get off all the drugs all together.
i really really really dont know anymore
Posted by cache-monkey on January 12, 2005, at 1:19:52
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day4 » cache-monkey, posted by borderliner on January 11, 2005, at 17:30:05
Dear borderliner,
I read your post directed to me and my heart goes out to you. I've had moments like that, but they have passed. If these are consistent thoughts of suicide, make sure you check in with someone regularly, and especially if you feel the need to act on them.
One option -- I don't know if it was already mentioned in this thread -- is hospitalization. Yeah, it seems like a last resort, you might not feel that you can take the time out right now, and maybe you feel a certain stigma associated with it.
But it can really help to get you settled down and on a med that actually helps you. The time is small in the grand scheme of things, if it can get you on a good path in your life. Also, you shouldn't let the stigma of it affect you. Mental imbalances are also a disease and people regularly go to the hospital and stay to have other diseases treated.
Others on this board have followed this path, and benefited greatly, I believe. Maybe they can chime in here?
Good luck,
cache-monkey> all of my problems are escalated by living here, i cant leave here until my head is in gear and im working... what do i do except run a warm bath and die it red with my own blood. i really dont think reboxetine is for me. im in too much of a state. i went and saw my GP yesterday and told him ive been feeling worse physically(flu symptoms) and mentally (am being pulled towards suicide by the second.
>
> i dont know what to do.
Posted by ed_uk on January 12, 2005, at 2:24:29
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day4 / visiting the hospital » borderliner, posted by cache-monkey on January 12, 2005, at 1:19:52
Hello,
I'm really worried about you. Have you contacted your pdoc to say how bad your feeling? Please don't hurt yourself. You will find a treatment that works for you.
Best Wishes,
Ed.
Posted by borderliner on January 12, 2005, at 2:57:43
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day4 / visiting the hospital » borderliner, posted by cache-monkey on January 12, 2005, at 1:19:52
my last overdose was an attempt to get myself into the hospital, i had to beg for a bed and didnt even get it. i also tried to get in today, no luck. the psychiatric department here is absolute b*llshit. i WISH i could be hospitalised. but theres simply not enough resources. last time i went during efexor withdrawal they told me to go home and rest, i caused a scene and took an overdose in the hospital toilets... they then decided to keep me OVER NIGHT in the emergency ward. its absolutely disgusting here. i had a psychiatrist at the hospital tell me that people like me often try these attention seeking overdoses to try and score a bed but it 'just doesnt work'.
Posted by darkhorse on January 12, 2005, at 5:53:11
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day4 / visiting the hospital » cache-monkey, posted by borderliner on January 12, 2005, at 2:57:43
I hope that Rebox is not affecting you in a negative way.You can just stop rebox for a few days and see if things are getting much better.
Take good care,and keep posting.Things can only get better.
Best wishes,
Dark Horse.
Posted by borderliner on January 12, 2005, at 20:50:37
In reply to Reboxetine?, posted by borderliner on January 6, 2005, at 9:24:02
NOTE:NOW TAKING FULL DOSE (8MG)
well well well, after the last 5 days of absolute sh*t, today im actually feeling ok. I have a recommendation, DO NOT DRINK ON REBOXETINE. i had 3 bourbans last night and was seeing double. i dont often drink so it pretty much went straight to my head, i also awoke this morning with a bit of a hangover and extremely sore legs, they were aching horribly. most likely a reaction from the alcohol and possibly dehydrating myself.
POSITIVE EFFECTS: i have been booming with energy and today for the first time i noticed a sense of inner peace when i was out. i guess i no longer have that fatigued melancholic like feeling through my body anymore. As far as anxiety go's, today it wasnt going at all, the anxious thoughts i had, i had the energy to shrug off. Maybe the light at the end of the tunnel is startin to shine through. When it comes to mornings, i no longer wake up, groan, toss and turn, try to get comfortable and think NOO NOT MORNING.
NEGATIVE EFFECTS: AVOID ALCOHOL. my sleepin pattern atm is 1am-5am and sometimes i can manage to squeeze in an extra couple of hours during the morning and another couple in the afternoon. Its a strange euphoric sensation when im a lil under slept and a lil over charged.I can defenetely say Reboxetine is going to benefit me, i think what happened in the beginning was just the panic of adjusting to the extra energy and me sort of re-realising the stressors in my life so i can begin to manage them differently, which i have. Im still quite moody however, and have slight bouts of anger. My general mood is still low, but im hopeful it will begin to improve now that the rebox has reached a stable state in my blood.
things are looking up!
Borderliner
Posted by sabre on January 12, 2005, at 21:05:08
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day6, posted by borderliner on January 12, 2005, at 20:50:37
Great news, borderliner.
sabre
Posted by ed_uk on January 13, 2005, at 5:55:49
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day6, posted by sabre on January 12, 2005, at 21:05:08
Hi!!
I'm so glad you're feeling better!!
Keep us updated!
Best Regards,
Ed.
Posted by borderliner on January 13, 2005, at 21:59:04
In reply to Reboxetine?, posted by borderliner on January 6, 2005, at 9:24:02
*cries*
Posted by ed_uk on January 14, 2005, at 11:33:59
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day7, posted by borderliner on January 13, 2005, at 21:59:04
Mr. B,
How are you? Please tell me.
Ed.
Posted by borderliner on January 15, 2005, at 23:35:52
In reply to Re: Reboxetine?/day7 » borderliner, posted by ed_uk on January 14, 2005, at 11:33:59
sorry guyz, to all that were following, but reboxetine was just to hectic for me, the flu like symptoms, the hot flashes, the coldness, the shrinkage of my 'extremeties' the mood swings. agitation and eventually suicidal ideation had to be stopped, it was getin progressively worse.
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT THAT THIS MEDICATION WOULD WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE WITH A MORE STABLE MENTALITY, BUT FOR OTHER PEOPLE ON THE BORDERLINE, CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE.
The activating effects of this medication were very evident, it did improve my mood towards gonig out from anxiety to acceptance and comfotability (apart from the above side effects that i experienced) the only reason this med was not right for me was because im way to unstable and constantly on edge.
To anyone interested in this NARI, i openly promote it to people who are allready functioning ok. it helps with energy and motivation. I just couldnt wait around for some serontinergenic effects to start.
Me and my dr have discussed many options and i have agreed to go back onto efexor xr. The only reason i stopped last time was the nausia and vomiting and dizzyness. i just dont think i was really giving it a chance. but this time i will be.
I am quite happy to continue posting on my efexor progress if anyone is interested. just let me know and ill keep doing daily postings on my progress. I have been perscribed 75mg of Efexor Xr. I will be stayin on this dose as i dont tolerate nausia well.
Thanks to everyone for their support on this reboxetine experiment...
BOTTOM LINE:
I dont recommended reboxetine for Borderline Personalities, or people with severe depression.
I recommend this med for people allready on the road to recovery who suffer melancholic depression or social anxiety and need some extra energy/motivation.
Posted by ed_uk on January 16, 2005, at 7:25:13
In reply to Re: Reboxetine - I'm Opting OUT!, posted by borderliner on January 15, 2005, at 23:35:52
Hi Mr. B,
It's a shame that it didn't work out for you- few people on this board have liked reboxetine.
>I am quite happy to continue posting on my efexor progress if anyone is interested. just let me know and ill keep doing daily postings on my progress.
Yes, please keep posting :-) I would like to hear how you do.
All the best,
Ed.
Posted by borderliner on January 16, 2005, at 7:31:11
In reply to Re: Reboxetine - I'm Opting OUT! » borderliner, posted by ed_uk on January 16, 2005, at 7:25:13
Efexor XR Day 1
i did experience a lil nausia and dizzyness, but thats about it.I have been on efexor before and last time it reduced my appetite to nothing and made me sick, this was in the 150mg dose range. So im on 75mg and wont be moving up too fast.
it may be hard for me to continue posting daily as i have just ended a relationship with my partner who was living with me, i suppose they will take the computer as they payed for it.
Ill see how it goes.
Borderliner
Posted by SLS on January 16, 2005, at 9:08:15
In reply to Re: Efexor XR - Day 1, posted by borderliner on January 16, 2005, at 7:31:11
Hi Borderliner.
I'm jumping a little late here, but I wanted to extend to you my congratulations on sticking with reboxetine as long as you did. I should think that anything that activates the autonomic nervous system and produces anxiety would be exactly what you wouldn't want.
I haven't read all of the posts along this thread (a difficult chore for me). Has anyone mentioned combining Zyprexa with DBT? Did Tegretol or Trileptal help?
Good luck with Effexor.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by borderliner on January 16, 2005, at 9:13:33
In reply to Re: Efexor XR - Day 1 » borderliner, posted by SLS on January 16, 2005, at 9:08:15
i wish u had said that on day 1. was a long week. havent tried the other meds u speak of. i think ill stay with efexor unless something major life threatening occurs.
do u know if Efexor is more suited to borderline personality?
thanx for the input
Borderliner
Posted by SLS on January 16, 2005, at 9:38:32
In reply to Re: Efexor XR - Day 1, posted by borderliner on January 16, 2005, at 9:13:33
> i wish u had said that on day 1. was a long week. havent tried the other meds u speak of. i think ill stay with efexor unless something major life threatening occurs.
> do u know if Efexor is more suited to borderline personality?
> thanx for the input
> Borderliner
I don't think Effexor is a bad choice at all, especially if dysthymia (minor depression) is present, but it might not be suited to address some of the behavioral and impulse-control problems associated with BPD. You would probably benefit from taking two or three medications at the same time. There is nothing at all wrong with combining Effexor and Zyprexa. The two together might benefit you more than either alone.Please continue to post of your progress.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on January 17, 2005, at 5:56:29
In reply to Re: Efexor XR - Day 1 » borderliner, posted by SLS on January 16, 2005, at 9:38:32
Hello Mr. B!
I'm glad to hear that you're not having many side effects from Efexor so far. I really hope it helps. How long did you take Efexor for when you took it before?
I hope you can continue to post. Can you get access to a computer in a library or anything?
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by lm on February 17, 2005, at 7:03:41
In reply to Re: Reboxetine - I'm Opting OUT! » borderliner, posted by ed_uk on January 16, 2005, at 7:25:13
I'v been on reboxetine for several months and consider it ok but I have not been able to get as much sleep as I think I need or at least as much quality sleep as I need. I wonder how common this really is. The literature suggests that this side-effects goes away in nearly all cases, even though sleep architecture is altered somewhat. One well-designed study suggests an increase in average number of hours in patients taking reboxetine for some time.
I think I want to stay on it but cannot imaging tolerating long term sleep deprivation. Is there a drug-free way of dealing with this? If medication is required, which will affect memory and concentration least?
Some background: I have been on many antidepressants over the course of last 10 years but, prior to reboxetine, have made signifnicant progress only on milnacipran. But I still felt that there is some room for improvment, particularly regarding energy and motivation. My symptoms are mostly ADD-like, but around them severe depressive and 'fibromyalgic' symptoms evolved as well (perhaps this is why milnacipran worked so well). To the extent to which I understanding technical literature on antidepressants, there is little evidence suggesting that serotonin is significantly involved in regulating cognition. This is why I switched to reboxetine.
Posted by lm on February 17, 2005, at 8:07:56
In reply to Reboxetine - Fine but not quite, posted by lm on February 17, 2005, at 7:03:41
Sorry, forgot to provide dose info: its 8mg.
I already tried taking the second dose earlier. Terrible idea: confusion and severely depressed mood.
I tired to lower the second dose: even worse idea because 6mg per day is just not enough for me and some original symptoms returned, while some intensified afternoon confusion and sadness ocurred anyway.
Posted by ed_uk on February 18, 2005, at 11:47:05
In reply to Reboxetine - Fine but not quite, posted by lm on February 17, 2005, at 7:03:41
Are you about?
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
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