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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 13:31:24
Anybody have suicidal thoughts after taking Klonopin?
Whenever I take Klonopin (even in small doses), I sink into a miserable depression that lasts at least a couple of days after the anti-anxiety effects of the drug wear off. And whenever I am in one of these Klonopin depressions I always think about suicide.
I would have thought the suicidal ideation was just a function of being in such a miserable depression, but another poster mentioned that he thinks about suicide after taking Klonopin even though his depression isn't that bad.
Anyone else experience suicidal thoughts after taking Klonopin?
Posted by linkadge on January 6, 2005, at 14:36:28
In reply to Klonopin and Suicidal ideation, posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 13:31:24
I certainly did feel some depression when I took clonazepam on a regular basis.
I found that taking folic acid (1mg) did improve the depression a notable amount. Folic acid is depleated by anticonvulsants, even marginal deficiancies can cause depression.
Linkadge
Posted by woolav on January 6, 2005, at 17:13:44
In reply to Klonopin and Suicidal ideation, posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 13:31:24
I take klonopin daily 3mg and I have suicdal thoughts about 1 time a month and i always attributed it to lamictal. How often do you take the klonopin???
Posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 17:19:30
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Suicidal ideation, posted by woolav on January 6, 2005, at 17:13:44
I never really took it on a regular basis, just from time to time. That's what allowed me to pinpoint the Klon as the cause of the suicidal thoughts b/c they always matched up with the times I took the Klon.
> I take klonopin daily 3mg and I have suicdal thoughts about 1 time a month and i always attributed it to lamictal. How often do you take the klonopin???
>
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2005, at 17:39:44
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Suicidal ideation, posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 17:19:30
I never liked Klonopin, and my previous pdoc would let me have whatever benzo I wanted. When he left his practice, I was forced to go to the only other pdoc in the area and he put me on just the Klonopin. I asked him about it depressing me more and he said "all benzos do that" It's not true. I believe Klonopin makes you feel not relaxed,but dopey and stupid. I also can't believe the .5 Klonopin is equal to 20mg of Valium. That means I am taking an incredible amt of a benzo that does not work for me (l.5MG) I used to take much lower doses of Xanax. How do you convince an idiot to change your benzo when he never listens to you? Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on January 6, 2005, at 18:15:11
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Suicidal ideation, posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2005, at 17:39:44
I was taking 3mg of clonazepam at one point.
I didn't feel depressed in the sence that I felt "hopeless" but more a feeling of incapability.
Linkadge
Posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 21:05:48
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Suicidal ideation, posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2005, at 17:39:44
How did the medical profession get so chock full of idiots?!?! What was the course they took in medical school that tought them to ignore side-effects, believe every scrap of information that the pharmaceutical sales reps tell them, and completely ignore and belittle input/feedback from their patients!?!?
> How do you convince an idiot to change your benzo when he never listens to you? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2005, at 21:21:11
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Suicidal ideation, posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 21:05:48
I have both Xanax, and Valium. I'm "such a good little pt. that I never take what the pdoc didn't rx." Do you think I should try one of them instead and then tell him if it works? Which one should I try? Phillipa
Posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 21:54:20
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Suicidal ideation » Dan Perkins, posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2005, at 21:21:11
As long as you have read the package inserts and have read a number of first-hand reports about these drugs from this and other message boards, then you will very likely know more about these drugs, practically speaking, than your pdummy does.
You could ask your pdope first and then take them anyway if his objections are dumb, or you could just pop them yourself if you know what you're doing.
I don't have any firsthand knowledge of either of these drugs and haven't read much about them, so I'm probably not the one to ask.
> I have both Xanax, and Valium. I'm "such a good little pt. that I never take what the pdoc didn't rx." Do you think I should try one of them instead and then tell him if it works? Which one should I try? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2005, at 22:26:59
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Suicidal ideation, posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 21:54:20
Thanks Dan; I'll "sleep on it", review my notes (yes I have 'charted' on myself since I was started on AD's 8yrs of notebooks), and then see what I come up with. Maybe some of the site's "Drug Experts" will be on tomorrow. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 23:09:38
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Suicidal ideation » Dan Perkins, posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2005, at 22:26:59
I would have so much of a better clue about what works for me and what doesn't if I had started keeping notes 10 years ago!
> review my notes (yes I have 'charted' on myself since I was started on AD's 8yrs of notebooks),
Posted by jasmineneroli on January 6, 2005, at 23:36:06
In reply to Re: Klonopin and Suicidal ideation, posted by Dan Perkins on January 6, 2005, at 23:09:38
I've taken clonazepam for more than 18 months straight. Starting at 1mg per day, now down to .25mg, because I find that low dose to be effective.
Zero problems whatsoever, only a good therapeutic effect.
I think there may be a "type" of person, and/or versions of mood disorders, that experience a depression response from benzo's, just as there are for other medications -including seemingly "common/simple" drugs, like acetaminophen and caffeine.
Sometimes, I think the response is psychological...the anxiety is the most acute or over-riding symptom, and once that has been removed by the benzo, the underlying depression is then revealed. The constant adrenaline of anxiety & stress also drives and energizes.
That's worth considering.
If you notice a correlation of bad s/e's to a drug or supplement........stop taking it!!! There are always alternatives.
Take care, all.
Jas
Posted by awatts on January 7, 2005, at 8:30:33
In reply to Nope, never had anything like that on Klon. ever, posted by jasmineneroli on January 6, 2005, at 23:36:06
> I've taken clonazepam for more than 18 months straight. Starting at 1mg per day, now down to .25mg, because I find that low dose to be effective.
Clonazepam can be wonderful for anxiety, but I think that many if not most people take too much. I had been taking 0.5 mgs twice a day for years with good results. Recently, I lowered my dosage to 0.25 mgs. twice a day. It works just as well, and now I am less tired. However, it did take my body a few weeks to adjust to the lower dosage. During the adjustment period, I experienced withdrawal (increased anxiety).
Posted by jasmineneroli on January 7, 2005, at 16:58:52
In reply to Re: Nope, never had anything like that on Klon. ever, posted by awatts on January 7, 2005, at 8:30:33
Yes, I do agree that people may be commonly prescribed doses higher than they need. Especially for chronic anxiety. I wonder if that is because, when used as an anti-seizure drug, quite high doses are used. So, with that dose as a benchmark, doctors prescribe too high (for anxiety).
I always try to start any drug, at the lowest possible dose and work up, but I was given what was an "average" dose of Klon. (1mg) initially. It seemed low to me, until I researched a bit, and found that quite typically, GAD responders needed less.
I had no trouble tapering down, at all.
Jas
Posted by darkhorse on January 10, 2005, at 8:57:45
In reply to Nope, never had anything like that on Klon. ever, posted by jasmineneroli on January 6, 2005, at 23:36:06
> I've taken clonazepam for more than 18 months straight. Starting at 1mg per day, now down to .25mg, because I find that low dose to be effective.
> Zero problems whatsoever, only a good therapeutic effect.
> I think there may be a "type" of person, and/or versions of mood disorders, that experience a depression response from benzo's, just as there are for other medications -including seemingly "common/simple" drugs, like acetaminophen and caffeine.
> Sometimes, I think the response is psychological...the anxiety is the most acute or over-riding symptom, and once that has been removed by the benzo, the underlying depression is then revealed. The constant adrenaline of anxiety & stress also drives and energizes.
> That's worth considering.
> If you notice a correlation of bad s/e's to a drug or supplement........stop taking it!!! There are always alternatives.
> Take care, all.
> Jas
I took lots and lots of different benzos (Ativan,Xanax,Valium,Frisium,Tranxene,Prazepam,Cloxazolam,Oxazepam,Rohyponol,Lormetazepam,and many many more)and Clonazepam was the only benzo that always gave from the first pill,no matter what the dose is, a blue feeling,helplessness,depressive thoughts....most benzos give depressive symptoms during withdrawal from medium - long use.....but nothing like clonazepam which has this severe symptoms while on the drug and after.........I noticed from some readings that clonazepam,unlike all other benzos, has some unknown serotonergic effects,and I suspect that it has to do with what lots of people experience as depression from clonazepam.
Just my experience and some thoughts about the cause...
Any I deas and input about Klon&depression?
Dark Horse
Posted by Ritch on January 10, 2005, at 9:59:35
In reply to Re: Klonopin/Depression,why?, posted by darkhorse on January 10, 2005, at 8:57:45
> > I've taken clonazepam for more than 18 months straight. Starting at 1mg per day, now down to .25mg, because I find that low dose to be effective.
> > Zero problems whatsoever, only a good therapeutic effect.
> > I think there may be a "type" of person, and/or versions of mood disorders, that experience a depression response from benzo's, just as there are for other medications -including seemingly "common/simple" drugs, like acetaminophen and caffeine.
> > Sometimes, I think the response is psychological...the anxiety is the most acute or over-riding symptom, and once that has been removed by the benzo, the underlying depression is then revealed. The constant adrenaline of anxiety & stress also drives and energizes.
> > That's worth considering.
> > If you notice a correlation of bad s/e's to a drug or supplement........stop taking it!!! There are always alternatives.
> > Take care, all.
> > Jas
>
>
> I took lots and lots of different benzos (Ativan,Xanax,Valium,Frisium,Tranxene,Prazepam,Cloxazolam,Oxazepam,Rohyponol,Lormetazepam,and many many more)and Clonazepam was the only benzo that always gave from the first pill,no matter what the dose is, a blue feeling,helplessness,depressive thoughts....most benzos give depressive symptoms during withdrawal from medium - long use.....but nothing like clonazepam which has this severe symptoms while on the drug and after.........
>
> I noticed from some readings that clonazepam,unlike all other benzos, has some unknown serotonergic effects,and I suspect that it has to do with what lots of people experience as depression from clonazepam.
>
> Just my experience and some thoughts about the cause...
>
> Any I deas and input about Klon&depression?
>
> Dark Horse
>
>
Don't know the particulars.. but I think clonazepam is supposed to be a modest "releaser" of serotonin-a property the other benzos are supposed to lack, also I think it does something a little "extra" at the BZD receptors the others don't (not sure here though). Another thing.. I don't like to take any clon in the daytime if I can avoid it precisely because of the mild depressogenic effects. If I'm panicky that's different for reasons similar to the above statements, but I don't take benzo just for pure anticipatory anxiety. There's something else too-it seems the first four or five hours after taking a dose (in the daytime), I notice that blue feeling you speak of.. but about six hours in I feel a definite improvement that lasts for several more hours-I wonder if there are metabolites that affect mood differently from the parent compound.. or secondary effects that take a few hours (maybe the serotonergic ones)?
Posted by Mr.Scott on January 12, 2005, at 0:06:53
In reply to Re: Klonopin/Depression,why? » darkhorse, posted by Ritch on January 10, 2005, at 9:59:35
I gotta say this post is a bit scarry. I've been taking clonazepam for 8 straight years. I currently take .5mg. As I lowered the dose I have felt better and now am actually anxious to get off of it. If I find out that in that period of time I spent 'tens of thousands of dollars' on other pills and therapy to help a depression that was caused by clonazepam I'll be awfully upset.
Scott
Posted by jasmineneroli on January 12, 2005, at 0:28:43
In reply to Re: Klonopin/Depression,why?, posted by Mr.Scott on January 12, 2005, at 0:06:53
This is really interesting.
I did know that clonazepam has a very slight serotonergic effect. That's why I think it helps those of us with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Perhaps when it's combined with an AD, it makes depression worse??
Slow metabolization of this drug in the liver, may well cause "toxic" effects, since the drug is around much longer and as you keep adding a dose it just builds up. I have this problem with drugs that require liver CYTP450 enzyme 2C19 (Celexa & Moclobemeide to name 2). I get really bad side effects from them and needed a very low dose to be therapeutic, in the end they made me depressed!!!
Perhaps something similar is going on with Clonazepam for some of you guys??I love clonazepam myself, but if you plot your reactions and feel it's making you worse, maybe it's time to change, just as you would for any other drug.
Wishing you guys luck!
Jas
Posted by MBAVON on January 12, 2005, at 18:11:06
In reply to Re: Klonopin/Depression,why?, posted by jasmineneroli on January 12, 2005, at 0:28:43
I think we hear too much about Klonopin causing depression. I think this is a highly individualized thing and if people would research some Pub Med studies and other research resources, Klonopin can actually augment antidepressants and make one feel better..It rids anxiety, there is less rumination and things seem to be much smoother.Some research even indicates it has some mood elevating properties. It has augmented my Parnate quite a bit. I only take 1.5 - 2 mgs a day. I was dead set against taking it daily. My doctor asked me to try a 3 week experiment and asked me to take Klonopin as I would my antidepressant, on a regular basis and it has really helped. People really need to express on this board that their results doesn't necessarily mean someone else will experience things the same way. There are so many factors involved in the causes and treatment of depression.
This is the end of the thread.
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