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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2004, at 7:37:53
Has anyone on babble ever taken an anabolic steroid? If so, did it have any psychological effects? eg. increased aggression, anxiety, depression, euphoria, irritability, mania, increased energy etc.
Examples of anabolic steroids include nandrolone, stanozolol and oxymetholone.
Ed.
Posted by Optimist on December 21, 2004, at 9:04:03
In reply to Anabolic Steroids, posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2004, at 7:37:53
> Has anyone on babble ever taken an anabolic steroid? If so, did it have any psychological effects? eg. increased aggression, anxiety, depression, euphoria, irritability, mania, increased energy etc.
>
> Examples of anabolic steroids include nandrolone, stanozolol and oxymetholone.
>
> Ed.
Hi Ed. I'm not very experienced with taking steroids although I have researched them extensively. I'm very active in working out and sports so the topic has always been a hobby of mine.Depending on the steroid it will give you different psychological effects. Methandrostenolone (Dianabol), tends to be a rather powerful mood brightener. It has some robust pro-dopamine qualities which tends to make the user feel more euphoric, prosocial, confident, energetic but may cause insomnia, and hypertension.
Testosterone tends to have the most applicable use for depression. It tends to have similar qualities to increased dopamine as testosterone indirectly increases it (increased sexual interest, confidence, energy, etc...). Testosterone therapy isn't really a great long term solution though as it down regulates your own production, but some men use it regardless as their own natural production is impaired.
Many of the other steroids you listed will impair mood, as they tend to decrease your own natural production over prolonged use. Nandrolone usually tends to cause sexual disfunction (also called Deca dick) after it's trade name Deca Durabolin. Stanozolol(Winstrol) and Oxymetholone(Anadrol) aren't very useful either as mood brighteners either. They are also hepatoxic over time which limits it's duration. Some of them are known for exacerbating depression as well.
So basically testosterone, and dianabol are the only useful moodbrighteners. Dianabol being an oral drug is also considered hepatoxic over time so it rather limits it's use as well. Usually only 6 weeks at a time, in order to provide recovery of the liver.
The mechanism in which these androgenic steroids increase mood is mainly through increased dopamine function. Increasing dopamine through prodopaminergic drugs, like wellbutrin, selegiline, amineptine, etc... will indirectly increase testosterone levels as their production is correlated. Serotonin in constrast as you know generally lowers dopamine function and thus also tends to lower testosterone as well. People on SSRI's tend to have blunted testosterone levels usually due to this effect. The solution is not always to add endogenous testostone to the mix first as an end organ hormone can have more widespread side effects, like cancer, etc... as they tend to promote tissue growth. The same with estrogen and breast cancer as you have probably heard before. So if one wants to increase their testosterone production it is usually best to check dopamine function first and start from there.
Are you interested in possibly using yourself to improve your mood Ed, or are you just curious?
Brian
Posted by linkadge on December 21, 2004, at 9:28:14
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on December 21, 2004, at 9:04:03
I've always known that SSRI's make me more girly.
I've started watching Oprah Winfrey religiously since starting celexa.
Linkadge
Posted by JackD on December 21, 2004, at 10:01:57
In reply to Anabolic Steroids, posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2004, at 7:37:53
A good friend of mine has been taking "juice" for quite some time, and has been on cycles on and off for the past few years. He says his sex drive is out of control when he's on them, and he feels a tremendous amount of aggression and feeling overall super-confident and powerful. No euphoria though, and no "roid rage". Then again he's real careful and knows exactly what steroids to avoid and how to come off them properly using anti-estrogen stuff. I could ask him more if you'd like, but I've asked him about how his mood is on it and aside from what I said he says he really doesn't feel that much different.
Posted by JackD on December 21, 2004, at 10:04:57
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids, posted by linkadge on December 21, 2004, at 9:28:14
linkadge, that has got to be THE most horrible side effect I've heard yet from using SSRI's.
Posted by linkadge on December 21, 2004, at 10:46:02
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids, posted by JackD on December 21, 2004, at 10:04:57
I guess it could be a bad one. I guess I'm so tired of being depressed that I really don't care as much as I should. I just kind've do what I feel.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2004, at 11:23:45
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on December 21, 2004, at 9:04:03
>Are you interested in possibly using yourself to improve your mood Ed, or are you just curious?
Hi,
Thank you for your detailed reply. I wasn't thinking of taking anabolic steroids, I was just interested in their effects. Keep up the exercise!!
All the best,
Ed.
Posted by Optimist on December 21, 2004, at 16:49:23
In reply to Re: Hello Optimist, posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2004, at 11:23:45
I've heard reports of anabolic steroids inducing mania/hypomania in some people as well. I guess that's not surprising since a lot of the effects are similar in that regard (increased sex drive, confidence, energy, etc...).
Posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2004, at 17:22:30
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on December 21, 2004, at 9:04:03
Hi Brian,
Have you ever taken methandrostenolone? ....or any of the other anabolic steroids that you discussed in your post. What effects did they have?
Ed.
Posted by lars1 on December 22, 2004, at 0:26:50
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on December 21, 2004, at 9:04:03
> Testosterone tends to have the most applicable use for depression. It tends to have similar qualities to increased dopamine as testosterone indirectly increases it (increased sexual interest, confidence, energy, etc...). Testosterone therapy isn't really a great long term solution though as it down regulates your own production, but some men use it regardless as their own natural production is impaired.
>Brian,
I also appreciated the detailed information. Do you happen to know if testosterone tends to "poop out" over time the way other dopaminergics do? (I'm assuming here that you would take enough to compensate for any downregulation of your own production.)
Lars
Posted by Optimist on December 22, 2004, at 7:56:06
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids » Optimist, posted by lars1 on December 22, 2004, at 0:26:50
> > Testosterone tends to have the most applicable use for depression. It tends to have similar qualities to increased dopamine as testosterone indirectly increases it (increased sexual interest, confidence, energy, etc...). Testosterone therapy isn't really a great long term solution though as it down regulates your own production, but some men use it regardless as their own natural production is impaired.
> >
>
> Brian,
>
> I also appreciated the detailed information. Do you happen to know if testosterone tends to "poop out" over time the way other dopaminergics do? (I'm assuming here that you would take enough to compensate for any downregulation of your own production.)
>
> LarsOver time I know your body downregulates it's own testosterone production but the receptors themselves are not supposed to downregulate from the literature I've been exposed to.
General replacement dosages are around 200mg per week of testosterone enthanate(sp). Androgel is supposed to be a better alternative since it lacks a lot of the conversion to estrogen and it tends to follow a more natural daily rythym similar to men's regular cycle. I'm not as familiar about replacement dosages for androgel but I do know that is the testosterone therapy that is most in vogue at the moment.
Posted by Optimist on December 22, 2004, at 9:02:09
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids » Optimist, posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2004, at 17:22:30
> Hi Brian,
>
> Have you ever taken methandrostenolone? ....or any of the other anabolic steroids that you discussed in your post. What effects did they have?
>
> Ed.Yes I have tried it, albeit for a short period of time. I noticed some increased confidence, energy, and wellbeing. It was hard to say though since I wasn't on it very long. That's the only androgen I've taken. I had to prematurely cut it short due to longstanding acne problems which the methandrostenolone was exacerbating.
IMO androgel or testosterone shots would be a better option as it isn't hard on your liver, and you're not replacing your testosterone with a synthetic analogue.
A good book I've read on hormones is the book "Hormonal Health" by Dr. Michael Colgan. It's very well written with lots of references. His stance is basically to start replacing at the top of the chain within the hormonal cascade i.e. Pineal gland --> hypothalamus --> pituitary gland --> testes, and adrenals etc... He says it's a lot more dangerous to play around with end organ hormones as they can cause unwanted tissue growth like cancer. He recommends supplementation with melatonin which comes from the pineal gland, low dose selegiline to increase dopamine function, and acetyl-L-Carnitine for increased acetylcholine function. Lastly he recommends DHEA, then testosterone as a last resort if everything isn't functioning properly upwards in the cascade.
It's interesting stuff, definitely worth a read. He says many times low testosterone can be increased by improving dopamine function. Sometimes that's all that's needed. The other way around, increasing testosterone to increase dopamine is an inefficient method that tends to cause more side effects. To increase mood you may be better off finding a drug that more directly increases dopamine, unless you specifically have a problem where your testes aren't producing enough testosterone at that point in the cascade even though there may be sufficient lutenizing hormone.
Brian
Posted by ed_uk on December 22, 2004, at 9:24:28
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids » ed_uk, posted by Optimist on December 22, 2004, at 9:02:09
Hi,
Thank you for the information. I used to have bad acne so androgens probably wouldn't be so great for my skin. Don't want to end up on Accutane again!
Ed.
Posted by Optimist on December 22, 2004, at 16:24:14
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids » Optimist, posted by ed_uk on December 22, 2004, at 9:24:28
> Hi,
>
> Thank you for the information. I used to have bad acne so androgens probably wouldn't be so great for my skin. Don't want to end up on Accutane again!
>
> Ed.I know what you mean. I've been on two courses of Accutane. The first course coincided with my first depression when I was 17 years old.
I've often wondered if I had never took Accutane whether I would have experienced depression at all. As I'm sure you've probably heard, accutane may cause depression.
I'm sure I'm genetically predisposed to depression as most of my extended family has had problems with it. The Accutane may have just brought the symptoms out earlier perhaps. I'll never know though, so it's best to not worry about it and look for a solution instead.
Posted by ed_uk on December 22, 2004, at 16:43:58
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids, posted by Optimist on December 22, 2004, at 16:24:14
Hi Brian,
I took Accutane when I was 17 and developed depression shortly after ending the treatment. I was already on Paxil for anxiety. I had a lot of problems with fatigue and excessive drowsiness after taking the Accutane.
Ed.
Posted by Rhapsody on December 22, 2004, at 19:28:23
In reply to Re: Anabolic Steroids, posted by linkadge on December 21, 2004, at 9:28:14
Linkadge, I thought your comment was hilarious! Thank you for the belly laugh. :-D
> I've always known that SSRI's make me more girly.
>
> I've started watching Oprah Winfrey religiously since starting celexa.
>
>
> Linkadge
Posted by blanding on December 22, 2004, at 20:37:23
In reply to Anabolic Steroids, posted by ed_uk on December 21, 2004, at 7:37:53
I've used metenolone for several periods of 5 - 7 weeks at a dose of 25-75 mg/d and experienced a subtle but definite antidepressant effect.
Because it seemed I was losing hair as a side effect I eventually decided to stop taking it.
This is the end of the thread.
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