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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jparsell82 on December 19, 2004, at 15:43:34
Well I'm now on Parnate now. I'm currently taking 20-30mg/day. I'll start off with side effects: horrible orthostatic hypotension(i think that's what it is, vision turns weird, my hearing starts to get drained out, i get dizzy and almost fall over, horrible feeling), constipation, trouble urinating, weird sleep patterns, very restless legs, dry mouth, occasional drowsiness, muscle weakness(sometimes severe), occasional cold chills, blood pressure bounces up and down, dialated pupils one night, etc. Overall, I've had more side effects so far on Parnate than I did on Nardil. But that doesn't matter because the most important thing is Parnate does cause me any cognitive problems or slowing of my metabolism. Anyways, here I start my complaint. The first four days I was on Parnate I felt great. It wasn't a placebo effect... perhaps it was just an initial response but I'm trying to get that feeling back. The first 4 days I was very talkative and my mood and anxiety were very good. I was almost a different person. For once, I was more concerned about others than myself. I was more confident, assertive, motivated, less fearful, etc. Then the 4th-5th day things changed and I became unmotivated again and tired. I was back to not really caring about conversing with anybody. I also started feeling weak in my muscles and I started isolating myself when anyone came over to the house. Anyone have any ideas of how I can get back to where I was when I started? Perhaps with more time I can acheive those effects again? Do you Parnate users feel this way on the med... motivated, talkative, assertive, not anxious, etc. Or was the first few days just an initial amphetamine-like response I experienced? Although I'd like to state that I've tried Adderall and it had this motivational effect like Parnate but along with it I was a lot more anxious unlike with Parnate. I also have Klonopin prescribed to me a 2mg a day but I quit taking it before I started the Parnate to see how it would act alone. And if necessary, I have Modafinil 200mg tabs I could augment the Parnate with. Anyways, I'm sorry this post got so long... it's just those first 4 days on Parnate were the best relief I've experienced for my Social Phobia(prominent), Depression, ADD, and GAD ever. And believe me I have tried about every single thing out there.
Posted by jclint on December 19, 2004, at 16:15:19
In reply to Parnate - Day 8... help please..., posted by jparsell82 on December 19, 2004, at 15:43:34
I have no experience here, but I've read a lot of anecdotes about the initial effects fading after a few days, but returning after a while. As you said, its most likely the inital amphetamine type effect wearing off.
Posted by djmmm on December 19, 2004, at 16:42:51
In reply to Parnate - Day 8... help please..., posted by jparsell82 on December 19, 2004, at 15:43:34
> Well I'm now on Parnate now. I'm currently taking 20-30mg/day. I'll start off with side effects: horrible orthostatic hypotension(i think that's what it is, vision turns weird, my hearing starts to get drained out, i get dizzy and almost fall over, horrible feeling), constipation, trouble urinating, weird sleep patterns, very restless legs, dry mouth, occasional drowsiness, muscle weakness(sometimes severe), occasional cold chills, blood pressure bounces up and down, dialated pupils one night, etc. Overall, I've had more side effects so far on Parnate than I did on Nardil. But that doesn't matter because the most important thing is Parnate does cause me any cognitive problems or slowing of my metabolism. Anyways, here I start my complaint. The first four days I was on Parnate I felt great. It wasn't a placebo effect... perhaps it was just an initial response but I'm trying to get that feeling back. The first 4 days I was very talkative and my mood and anxiety were very good. I was almost a different person. For once, I was more concerned about others than myself. I was more confident, assertive, motivated, less fearful, etc. Then the 4th-5th day things changed and I became unmotivated again and tired. I was back to not really caring about conversing with anybody. I also started feeling weak in my muscles and I started isolating myself when anyone came over to the house. Anyone have any ideas of how I can get back to where I was when I started? Perhaps with more time I can acheive those effects again? Do you Parnate users feel this way on the med... motivated, talkative, assertive, not anxious, etc. Or was the first few days just an initial amphetamine-like response I experienced? Although I'd like to state that I've tried Adderall and it had this motivational effect like Parnate but along with it I was a lot more anxious unlike with Parnate. I also have Klonopin prescribed to me a 2mg a day but I quit taking it before I started the Parnate to see how it would act alone. And if necessary, I have Modafinil 200mg tabs I could augment the Parnate with. Anyways, I'm sorry this post got so long... it's just those first 4 days on Parnate were the best relief I've experienced for my Social Phobia(prominent), Depression, ADD, and GAD ever. And believe me I have tried about every single thing out there.
Just stick with it..the orthostatic hypotension will go away. You may want to think about decreasing your dosage..some people take as little as 10mg...
Ive taken 50mg on a regular basis..and experienced similar side effects that lasted about 2 weeks, then went away. The positive, "amphetamine" like effects never went away (which was good). When I first started Parnate, I also experienced low blood pressure (resulting in chills, feeling cold, and tired at times)
How long were you taking 2mg of Klonopin? If you abruptly stopped, some of your parnate side-effects may actually be withdrawal effects from the Klonopin...try adding a small dose (.5 mg) and see what it does. I've been through Klonopin withdrawal, and the symptoms were so varied and severe, I couldn't even begin to list them here.
Posted by jparsell82 on December 19, 2004, at 20:43:53
In reply to Re: Parnate - Day 8... help please..., posted by djmmm on December 19, 2004, at 16:42:51
> > Well I'm now on Parnate now. I'm currently taking 20-30mg/day. I'll start off with side effects: horrible orthostatic hypotension(i think that's what it is, vision turns weird, my hearing starts to get drained out, i get dizzy and almost fall over, horrible feeling), constipation, trouble urinating, weird sleep patterns, very restless legs, dry mouth, occasional drowsiness, muscle weakness(sometimes severe), occasional cold chills, blood pressure bounces up and down, dialated pupils one night, etc. Overall, I've had more side effects so far on Parnate than I did on Nardil. But that doesn't matter because the most important thing is Parnate does cause me any cognitive problems or slowing of my metabolism. Anyways, here I start my complaint. The first four days I was on Parnate I felt great. It wasn't a placebo effect... perhaps it was just an initial response but I'm trying to get that feeling back. The first 4 days I was very talkative and my mood and anxiety were very good. I was almost a different person. For once, I was more concerned about others than myself. I was more confident, assertive, motivated, less fearful, etc. Then the 4th-5th day things changed and I became unmotivated again and tired. I was back to not really caring about conversing with anybody. I also started feeling weak in my muscles and I started isolating myself when anyone came over to the house. Anyone have any ideas of how I can get back to where I was when I started? Perhaps with more time I can acheive those effects again? Do you Parnate users feel this way on the med... motivated, talkative, assertive, not anxious, etc. Or was the first few days just an initial amphetamine-like response I experienced? Although I'd like to state that I've tried Adderall and it had this motivational effect like Parnate but along with it I was a lot more anxious unlike with Parnate. I also have Klonopin prescribed to me a 2mg a day but I quit taking it before I started the Parnate to see how it would act alone. And if necessary, I have Modafinil 200mg tabs I could augment the Parnate with. Anyways, I'm sorry this post got so long... it's just those first 4 days on Parnate were the best relief I've experienced for my Social Phobia(prominent), Depression, ADD, and GAD ever. And believe me I have tried about every single thing out there.
>
> Just stick with it..the orthostatic hypotension will go away. You may want to think about decreasing your dosage..some people take as little as 10mg...
>
> Ive taken 50mg on a regular basis..and experienced similar side effects that lasted about 2 weeks, then went away. The positive, "amphetamine" like effects never went away (which was good). When I first started Parnate, I also experienced low blood pressure (resulting in chills, feeling cold, and tired at times)
>
> How long were you taking 2mg of Klonopin? If you abruptly stopped, some of your parnate side-effects may actually be withdrawal effects from the Klonopin...try adding a small dose (.5 mg) and see what it does. I've been through Klonopin withdrawal, and the symptoms were so varied and severe, I couldn't even begin to list them here.Well I've been prescribed 2mg of Klonopin for a long time but I don't always take it. Sometimes I take one a day sometimes I take none. I would take 2mg a day because it's great for social anxiety & fear but I get pretty bad mental side effects from it plus Klonopin doesn't do anything for me in the pro-social area.
As far as the Parnate goes, the side effects haven't been as bad today. But I'm still not getting those initial effects I had of motivation, assertivenes, talkativeness, etc. Any ideas on how to get those effects back? I can handle the side effects. Should I wait a couple more days and raise the dose to 40mg? Are higher or lower doses of Parnate better pro-social effects? One more thing... I know it says not to take dextromethorphan with an Maoi. But, could perhaps an nmda antagonist help prevent tolerance to the stimulating effects of Parnate like they do with amphetamine? Has anyone tried this before?
Posted by MBAVON on December 20, 2004, at 14:47:32
In reply to Re: Parnate - Day 8... help please..., posted by jparsell82 on December 19, 2004, at 20:43:53
I've been on 40 mgs of Parnate since August 20th. With an increase to 60mgs for a few weeks. Parnate made me more anxious at 60mgs and the doctor cut me back to 40mgs with between .5 - 2mgs of Klonopin daily. The Klonopin has helped the anxiety. I would say as far as depression Parnate has been like a roller coaster ride. Some days up - some days down but the downs are not as bad. Thus far Parnate has given me bad insomnia and has done zip for anhedonia and motivation. I am looking for augmentation. I would like Wellbutrin because I did well on it before but my doctor is set against an MAOI and Wellbutrin yet he is willing to let me try Provigil.
Posted by jparsell82 on December 20, 2004, at 19:15:53
In reply to Re: Parnate - Day 8... help please..., posted by MBAVON on December 20, 2004, at 14:47:32
Do you guys have any comments to my first and second posts above? I'd like to hear some more opinions from veterans.
to MBAVON: I haven't experience any additional increase in anxiety from Parnate yet.
What's everyone's thoughts on taking Klonopin with Parnate. Browsing google, from one person I read it ruined Parnate's effects and combined badly. But from another person I read they synergized pretty well. Personally, I'd rather just get by on Parnate because Klonopin causes me memory problems and doesn't help my add. What's everyone's personal favorite insomnia treatment with Parnate? Anyone ever tried augmenting Parnate with Centrophenoxine or the similar DMAE? Centro is somewhat of a psychostimulant with anti-ADD properties.
Posted by MBAVON on December 20, 2004, at 20:09:00
In reply to Any comments to my above posts KVultan,Cybercafe, posted by jparsell82 on December 20, 2004, at 19:15:53
Klonopin has helped me. I still haven't found the perfect med for insomnia. I'd like 8 good hours of sleep and not feel groggy the next morning. Right now I switsh in between Ambien, Restoril, Trazadone and Benadyrl. Out of those the best seems to be Restoril 1-2 hours before bedtime. Trazadone has the worse grogginess the next morning.
Posted by King Vultan on December 21, 2004, at 0:33:49
In reply to Any comments to my above posts KVultan,Cybercafe, posted by jparsell82 on December 20, 2004, at 19:15:53
I've been on Parnate since August and have been on 60 mg/day now for about five weeks. My experience at the lower dosages was that it was also somewhat of a rollercoaster ride, but with more downs than highs. As I recall, I experienced significant depression for a period of time on some of these dosage increases, such as going from 30 to 40 mg/day. It was not real fun while in the midst of it, but I realized the Parnate was probably stimulating and downregulating some hypersensitive autoreceptors or some other blasted thing; I would have to say I had a certain amount of faith in the basic psychopharmacology of the drug, and this in itself was probably therapeutic and helpful.
I have noticed with both Nardil and Parnate that they seem to make me feel cold, but Parnate does not do this to the same extent Nardil did and also does not lower my blood pressure and heart rate nearly as much. The only real side effect I have suffered on Parnate is insomnia, which is very bad and even worse than it was on Nardil, and it's taken a lot of work to come up with a combination of sleep meds that works. I'm currently alternating back and forth between 0.25 mg triazolam one night and 5 mg Ambien + 25 mg Benadryl the next, augmented both nights with sleep/relaxation CDs.
I did feel there was a very worthwhile improvement for me personally going from 50 to 60 mg/day as far as motivation and drive. I am accomplishing more and feeling much better about my performance at work, not that it was necessarily all that terrible before, and with a similar improvement in my boldness and self-confidence, I believe I actually am going to bring up the issue of a raise at the first opportunity it seems appropriate to do so. Hopefully, some of the constructiveness I've learned in this forum will aid me in discussing this in a positive and diplomatic mannner.
Todd
Posted by cybercafe on December 21, 2004, at 7:13:42
In reply to Any comments to my above posts KVultan,Cybercafe, posted by jparsell82 on December 20, 2004, at 19:15:53
> Do you guys have any comments to my first and second posts above? I'd like to hear some more opinions from veterans.
Okay I know parnate was really good for the first few days. I increased to 30 mg maybe over a period of ... a week? ... and i felt good for about a month. Second month was good, but not as good. Still depressed, still kind of tough to stick out. Had to fight the urge to increase the dose. Third month the antidepressant effects kicked in.Second time on it... I didn't even get the initial boost, more of a gradual increase... and the depression didn't go away for about 4 months (now completely gone).
Both times I had to make lifestyle changes as well -- i.e. go out and do fun things! And socialize.... But my ADD is pretty bad so maybe that's just me.
Helps if you have money (family, disability, whatever).
Another Hint: Split the doses up. As each dose seems to enhance mood.
HYPOTENSION: yeah this is where maois seem different from SSRIs. With SSRIs the side effects seem to linger. But with parnate the hypotension completely disappeared in time.
Adding clonazepam to parnate seemed to really help a lot. I don't know why. I do have really bad anxiety (or am very tolerant to benzos).
I don't have any sleep problems. Abilify (really low dose too) caused insomnia, parnate caused insomnia, when taken together... I got a perfect 8 hours sleep. Not taking abilify anymore, but still sleep 8 hours no problem.
Unfortunately dude I don't think there's an easy answer... I just toughed out the 3 months. But by doing things like socializing, I would get a lot of temporary relief from my depression. Perhaps I didn't feel "good", but I felt "okay".
>
> to MBAVON: I haven't experience any additional increase in anxiety from Parnate yet.
>
> What's everyone's thoughts on taking Klonopin with Parnate. Browsing google, from one person I read it ruined Parnate's effects and combined badly. But from another person I read they synergized pretty well. Personally, I'd rather just get by on Parnate because Klonopin causes me memory problems and doesn't help my add. What's everyone's personal favorite insomnia treatment with Parnate? Anyone ever tried augmenting Parnate with Centrophenoxine or the similar DMAE? Centro is somewhat of a psychostimulant with anti-ADD properties.
This is the end of the thread.
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