![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tepiaca on December 10, 2004, at 23:07:41
.
Posted by Glydin on December 11, 2004, at 5:42:19
In reply to is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? (nm), posted by Tepiaca on December 10, 2004, at 23:07:41
I think the whole anxiety thing is a faulty fear response system. The "flight or fight" response goes wacky and basically the body pumps out adrenalin inapprioately --- it's like the regulatory system isn't regulating properly. This causes all those weird "feelings" and body sensations.
Fear is a normal and healthy part to life. Keeps us alert to possible dangers. Toxic anxiety and toxic fear is not "normal".
Just my take.....
Posted by Tepiaca on December 11, 2004, at 13:19:31
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? » Tepiaca, posted by Glydin on December 11, 2004, at 5:42:19
> I think the whole anxiety thing is a faulty fear response system. The "flight or fight" response goes wacky and basically the body pumps out adrenalin inapprioately --- it's like the regulatory system isn't regulating properly. This causes all those weird "feelings" and body sensations.
>
> Fear is a normal and healthy part to life. Keeps us alert to possible dangers. Toxic anxiety and toxic fear is not "normal".
>
> Just my take.....It is just that when I said my family thatI have social anxiety , they think this is something normal. I often hear many people to say that they feel anxious . That is why I prefer to tell my family that I´m afraid to death of people, so scared of everybody . I think saying anxiety is not the same than saying fear
is Social phobia a GAD by the way??thank you for your post!
Tep
Posted by Glydin on December 11, 2004, at 14:13:02
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? » Glydin, posted by Tepiaca on December 11, 2004, at 13:19:31
I actually get overly and inapproiately upset when I hear the flippant use of the words "anxiety" and "anxious" due to fact I and others have had a h*llish time dealing with a real disorder that contains those words. When I hear or read: "So and so had such anxiety over what shoes to wear with that dress"... shhheezah. It's my probelm, but the words have way too much negative meaning to me.
On the various types or categories of Anxiety Disorders --- I have a personal view on that and here it goes - I term myself as having an Anxiety Disorder - garden variety: mainly GAD, some Panic, periods of agoraphobia, rumminations... These wonderful symptoms at their peak can make me socially uncomfortable to the point of terrified thus avoident of social situations. Now, I realize the trend is to subcategorize, but to me - Anxiety Disorder covers it. Anyway you look at it or how you break down the "types", the treatment plan, including meds, is pretty much the same. The subcategories would be helpful to me only if the treatments were different.
Posted by Glydin on December 11, 2004, at 15:46:23
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? » Tepiaca, posted by Glydin on December 11, 2004, at 14:13:02
Regarding your family, do they not "get" the fact you have a medical problem that limits your social interaction?
Are they willing to try to learn about your problem?
Understanding really only comes if one has experienced it for themselves and then it's limited as we are all individuals. Some folks (families) are better than others at trying to be compassionate and understanding this IS a MEDICAL problem and the fact that the brain is an organ just as much as a heart, lung, kidney ....
I am sorry if your family doesn't "get" it.
Posted by cybercafe on December 12, 2004, at 1:19:44
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? » Tepiaca, posted by Glydin on December 11, 2004, at 5:42:19
> I think the whole anxiety thing is a faulty fear response system. The "flight or fight" response goes wacky and basically the body pumps out adrenalin inapprioately --- it's like the regulatory system isn't regulating properly. This causes all those weird "feelings" and body sensations.
>
> Fear is a normal and healthy part to life. Keeps us alert to possible dangers. Toxic anxiety and toxic fear is not "normal".
>
> Just my take.....
are all "anxiety disorders" adrenalin related?i was under the impression that the more bodily related ones (adrenalin) were treated with beta blockers whereas the more psychological ones (just over-firing of the ... amygdala or hippocampus or something ?) were to be treated with GABA-B agonists like benzos (or other psychiatric drugs like SSRIs etc) ?
if it is indeed an adrenal-related problem, i am wondering
a. is there a way to measure adrenalin levels?
b. are there any long term effects i should be trying to prevent?
c. are there any drugs/herbs that can compensate for high adrenalin or it's effects on other hormones, organs, etc etc?
Posted by Glydin on December 12, 2004, at 7:20:50
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ???, posted by cybercafe on December 12, 2004, at 1:19:44
>
> are all "anxiety disorders" adrenalin related?
>
> i was under the impression that the more bodily related ones (adrenalin) were treated with beta blockers whereas the more psychological ones (just over-firing of the ... amygdala or hippocampus or something ?) were to be treated with GABA-B agonists like benzos (or other psychiatric drugs like SSRIs etc) ?~~~Admittedly, I don't know all the psysiology involved. I feel mine is very related to adrenalin release. There may indeed be other systems at work.... I still think the "spin up stuff" is my problem and that's was just my take for me and my "stuff".
>
> if it is indeed an adrenal-related problem, i am wondering
>
> a. is there a way to measure adrenalin levels?I would not think so, but again, don't really know. It's a pretty "fluid" level of a hormone and would flucuate a great deal.
> b. are there any long term effects i should be trying to prevent?
Most sources will tell you that the "bursts" like in Panic attacks aren't harmful. Of course, "stress" as the catchall term is a risk factor for just about every disease, so it's a tough question to really know the answer to.
> c. are there any drugs/herbs that can compensate for high adrenalin or it's effects on other hormones, organs, etc etc?
I think it's so different for everyone. I guess whatever helps with emotional "over the top" responses - like stuff that works on the GABA system, is probably the best way to right things and reduce any ill effects long term.
Posted by pablo1 on December 13, 2004, at 18:25:02
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ???, posted by Glydin on December 12, 2004, at 7:20:50
Another component of anxiety is stress. I got diagnosed with 'repressed anxiety' which is sort of a made up term as far as I can tell. I don't get panic attacks, I do feel tense & stressed out. Psychologically, I'd say my problem is more with repressed anger than fear. How could you repress fear anyways? I guess it would look a lot like repressed anger if it were possible: it would stress you out.
Posted by Tepiaca on December 13, 2004, at 22:13:14
In reply to P.S., posted by Glydin on December 11, 2004, at 15:46:23
> Regarding your family, do they not "get" the fact you have a medical problem that limits your social interaction?
>
> Are they willing to try to learn about your problem?
>
> Understanding really only comes if one has experienced it for themselves and then it's limited as we are all individuals. Some folks (families) are better than others at trying to be compassionate and understanding this IS a MEDICAL problem and the fact that the brain is an organ just as much as a heart, lung, kidney ....
>
> I am sorry if your family doesn't "get" it.
Thank you GlydinMy parents dont know too much of what I have. But it is for sure that they are very worried with my life condition since I am a very lonely person. Thi has been in this way during the last 8 years of my life. Depression , pshycosis , suicide attempts have make them to understand in some way my suffering.
My brothers are careless about me , I don´t know if they have asked to parents why I am so rare.They just dont say nothing and treat me as if I were the same as when boy.
The rest of my family thinks I suffered a brief period of depression and that I have overcome it many years ago and that my social avoidance and insecurity is normal in most peopleAll I know is that I am still here because of them , I had killed myself in the past if I had had nobody who cares about me
again thanks for responding
Tep
Posted by Glydin on December 14, 2004, at 6:29:21
In reply to Re: P.S. » Glydin, posted by Tepiaca on December 13, 2004, at 22:13:14
>
> All I know is that I am still here because of them , I had killed myself in the past if I had had nobody who cares about me
I am very glad you have caring folks in your life. I have found people can care yet not really have a good understanding. It is better if they do "understand", but that isn't always possible. You keep fighting the good fight. I think those of us with mental health/emotional matters to deal with are some of the strongest people around - despite how we may be preceived by some uninformed parts of society. So, you keep looking for an answer to enable you to function as you would have youself function. I believe there is an answer.Take care.
Posted by ed_uk on December 14, 2004, at 7:57:43
In reply to Re: P.S. » Glydin, posted by Tepiaca on December 13, 2004, at 22:13:14
Hello Tep,
Are you still working? If you are, how is it going?
All the best,
Ed.
Posted by djmmm on December 14, 2004, at 9:18:43
In reply to is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? (nm), posted by Tepiaca on December 10, 2004, at 23:07:41
> .
no., "anxiety" generally comes in many forms...most people can "work through" anxiety. Fear is more closely associated with phobic states.
Certainly, something like a panic attack includes a false sense of fear, not unlike social phobia...but very different than "generalized anxiety," or "anxious isomnia"
The way I see it, anxiety is a part of the natural spectrum of emotion..but when anxiety becomes life altering, it becomes an "anxiety disorder," and when your anxiety disorder includes something that you yourself think is an "irrational" fear, it becomes a phobia (like social phobia..etc.
from http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Anxiety/definition.asp"Anxiety" is a word so commonly used that many people don't understand what it means in mental health care. Complicating matters is the fact that "anxiety" and fear are often used to describe the same thing. When the word "anxiety" is used to discuss a group of mental illnesses, it refers to an unpleasant and overriding mental tension that has no apparent identifiable cause. Fear, on the other hand, causes mental tension due to a specific, external reason, such as when your car skids out of control on ice."
Posted by Glydin on December 14, 2004, at 12:32:24
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ???, posted by djmmm on December 14, 2004, at 9:18:43
I think the way these words are used in terms of "clinical" status or how one, from a personal standpoint, sees these termed defined, the point is for you to use whatever terms feel correct and true for you to use as a description..... whatever will aid those you are trying to make your point to and help in their understanding.
I hope you are at least a little successful in that.
Posted by glenn on December 14, 2004, at 13:37:10
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? » Tepiaca, posted by Glydin on December 11, 2004, at 5:42:19
Very Good Question!
My experience suggested they can be different.
My "state" seemed to defy diagnosis. ADS did nothing and on Valium I experienced trembling, sweating and thumping heart.
I had no panic attacks or physical symptoms, obsessions or phobias ,"just" an overwhelming feeling of terror.
After 26 drugs and all the alternatives you can think of xanax sorted it in 30 minutes.
Interestingly enough my immune stystem was on overdrive during the bad time, no coughs colds or flu when everyone else was laid up.
However I now feel great ( cough ,cough)Glenn
Posted by jujube on December 14, 2004, at 16:19:34
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? » Glydin, posted by glenn on December 14, 2004, at 13:37:10
Glenn,
Your experience sounds a lot like mine (with the exception of my having only one panic attack). The sort of fear/terror feelings are weird and really bring me down. If you don't mind my asking, how long did you use Xanax? Are you still using it?
Thanks.
Tamara
Posted by glenn on December 14, 2004, at 17:47:45
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? » glenn, posted by jujube on December 14, 2004, at 16:19:34
Actually I use it in the method now thought of as best by Dr Stuart Shipko, the "inflammatory method"
Basically I have used it for only 3-5 days then given it a rest for 3-5 days.
I have done this for 3 years but over time my usage has declined massively.
I now only use it for "outbreaks", last time was 6 weeks ago and for 3 days only.
Even in the beginning I often left it for long periods between usage.
I now have to make myself take it on days 2 and 3.
Shipko likens it to an antibiotic, you have to take the full course, which in my case seems relatively short.
If you have never tried it have a look at his book "Surviving Panic Disorder"
Sounds like you and I do not have the classic version of this, so I was suprised when Xanax actually worked! But his book is full of good information.
Hope this helps, interesting that after 7 years of posting here you are the only person who has closely mirrored my symptoms.Glenn
Posted by jujube on December 14, 2004, at 18:09:03
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ???, posted by glenn on December 14, 2004, at 17:47:45
I have felt like a freak for a while now because of these fearful thoughts which always seem to come about after I have had what would appear to be a panic attack. I never seem to have another attack, but the feelings of terror do not subside, and I find myself avoiding certain situations. The last anxiety or panic attack I had was in early February, yet the "what if" mind set and feelings of terror/fear will not leave me, which has resulted in my becoming mildly to moderately depressed. The doctor put me on Effexor, but it only seemed to intensify the apprehensive feelings. I was finally referred to a pdoc in May. He continued me on Effexor, raising the dose to 225 mg. The higher the dose went, the more apprehensive I felt. The pdoc then switched my AD to Celexa and then to Anafranil (an old TCA). I have told him that Xanax at a very small dose (even 1/2 of a .25 mg pill helps me) for about week would probably get me out of the spin I was in. He insisted that I do not use any Xanax, but just work through the feelings. I have tried and tried, but nothing works. I do have Xanax on hand, but have resisted using it daily for a period of a week or two because I don't want to defy the doctor. However, at this point, I think I will use it and see if it helps me overcome these feelings.
Thanks for the reply. I feel better now knowing that someone else is out there and has gone through what I am going through.
Tamara
Posted by glenn on December 15, 2004, at 1:00:18
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? » glenn, posted by jujube on December 14, 2004, at 18:09:03
Glad it was of use, I don't want to make too much of the similarity but I also find a very low dose
(0.375 mg) does it for me and lasts at least 24 hours.
Xanax has I beleive a very short half life and usually needs to be taken 2-3 times a day so it does appear to be doing something for the likes of us that is different from its classical use.
Good luck with it.Glenn
Posted by jujube on December 15, 2004, at 14:46:56
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ???, posted by glenn on December 15, 2004, at 1:00:18
> Glad it was of use, I don't want to make too much of the similarity but I also find a very low dose (0.375 mg) does it for me and lasts at least 24 hours.
-- I'm the same, most of the time. 1/2 a pill and I'm good for the day and sometimes two days. I don't even recall ever experiencing rebound anxiety when its effects should have worn off.
> Xanax has I beleive a very short half life and usually needs to be taken 2-3 times a day so it does appear to be doing something for the likes of us that is different from its classical use.
> Good luck with it.
>
-- Thanks. I had an appointment with my gp today (follow-up bloodwork due to recurring iron deficiency), and filled her in on the med the pdoc had prescribed. At the same time, I told her I needed a refill for my Xanax. To heck with the pdoc. He keeps trying to uncover the reason for my anxiety (was it because of my raging, verbally and emotionally abusive father or my dysthymic mother? Neither have anything to do with my anxiety disorder. I am an adult, and have dealt with the disfunction of my childhood long ago.) If Xanax helps me, and I don't, and never have, abused it, then I think it is in my best interest to take the med that helps me remain functional. Whew! Sorry for the rant.Tamara
Posted by glenn on December 15, 2004, at 17:30:41
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ??? » glenn, posted by jujube on December 15, 2004, at 14:46:56
Hi ,
Yes I have also never experienced any rebound anxiety even after my longest spell on xanax (8 days)
The therapeutic approach is ok for some people but it neglects the possibility that for some people , even if childhood traumas etc caused anxiety or whatever, therapy may not be the right strategy to deal with it, especially if some sort of neurological/ biochemical change has taken place.
In my case it feels like ( sorry felt like) some kind of thermostat in my body and brain got turned up , and xanax gives both the opportunity to rest and reset themselves.
Ok the thermostat may go crazy again , so I just press the rest button again - xanax.Glenn
Posted by Tepiaca on December 16, 2004, at 20:47:17
In reply to Re: A little question for Tepiaca, posted by ed_uk on December 14, 2004, at 7:57:43
> Hello Tep,
>
> Are you still working? If you are, how is it going?
>
> All the best,
> Ed.hi ed_uk
Yes ed , I´m still working , today is my first month on the company. I have to confess something, I entered to that company because an uncle is friend of the General Director , so he asked him to give me an opportunity.
In some manner this condition has help me , because everybody knows I´m a friend of the Manager , they even think I´m blood related to him , so they all are very nice with me.
Nevertheless , I have problems talking to the bosses of the different departments. Im also much of the time sit in front of the PC cause I don´t like to walk and have to salute everybody and interact with all them.
I´m experimenting on something , I never did before. I´m starting and suspending the Nardil, because in this time it´s when I feel better. Just experimenting , maybe this is dangerous , that is why I asked in another post about this but nobody know exactly the answer.thank you very much for asking
=)
Greetings
TepThis
Posted by Tepiaca on December 16, 2004, at 20:50:52
In reply to Re: is ANXIETY the same than FEAR ???, posted by djmmm on December 14, 2004, at 9:18:43
Posted by ed_uk on December 17, 2004, at 4:10:33
In reply to Re: A little question for Tepiaca » ed_uk, posted by Tepiaca on December 16, 2004, at 20:47:17
Hi Tep,
Some people do get a temporary 'boost' when they stop an antidepressant or abrupty reduce the dose. Some people even experience full blown mania when they stop an AD!!
I hope you start to enjoy your job more as you get used to it and make friends with your colleagues.
All the best,
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.