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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pseudonym on November 15, 2004, at 18:12:43
For those of you using selegiline + DLPA to some success (Larry Hoover,Ame Sans Vie and nemesis come to mind), have you noticed any difference between the two forms in terms of effect (postive, neutral or negative)? I have been using about 2.5 mg selegiline hydrochloride (Jumex) along with 250 mg DLPA and am relatively pleased with the results.
Posted by Willyee on November 15, 2004, at 22:20:55
In reply to Selegiline Citrate vs selegiline hydrochloride, posted by pseudonym on November 15, 2004, at 18:12:43
> For those of you using selegiline + DLPA to some success (Larry Hoover,Ame Sans Vie and nemesis come to mind), have you noticed any difference between the two forms in terms of effect (postive, neutral or negative)? I have been using about 2.5 mg selegiline hydrochloride (Jumex) along with 250 mg DLPA and am relatively pleased with the results.
I cant compare both,but i personaly have used Liquid deprenyl,and it along with parnate and a short list of certain herbs/nutrients have been the only substances that ever actualy proved true to its title of ANTIDEPREASSANT.Deprenyl liquid at one time had an incredable synergy with klonopin and i belieave i had one of my greatest days of total remission relief using liquid deprenyl.
Unfortuantly it was to accumative for me to take as often as i needed,causing severe anxiety and agitation,and wasnt enough to take sparingly as in drop or two a day or days,but i rember hearing from quite a number of places that the liquid form was far superior to the pill form.
As for Aminos,i personaly was never a fan of Amino loading,in the long run it seemed to just imbalance and cause more problems,plus it never helped as much as specific meds have.Taurine and l-theanine are prob the only ones i still use.Just my two pennies
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 15, 2004, at 22:32:10
In reply to Selegiline Citrate vs selegiline hydrochloride, posted by pseudonym on November 15, 2004, at 18:12:43
> For those of you using selegiline + DLPA to some success (Larry Hoover,Ame Sans Vie and nemesis come to mind), have you noticed any difference between the two forms in terms of effect (postive, neutral or negative)? I have been using about 2.5 mg selegiline hydrochloride (Jumex) along with 250 mg DLPA and am relatively pleased with the results.
I'm having to back off from 5 mg/day due to side effects. I can't even find any evidence that others experienced this, but I've had severe acid reflux. Also, it appears to cause some brochospasm, making my asthma much worse than normal. I haven't routinely medicate these two things, (GERD) and asthma, over the last few years, despite prior serious problems with both. It might just be my body being weird, but I thought I had both under control with nutrients.
I want to stick with the selegiline, particularly as it shows evidence for stabilizing mitochondria. Mitochondrial dysfunction is a core issue in chronic fatigue syndrome, and likely, for depression, too.
Lar
Posted by hugo on November 16, 2004, at 0:06:28
In reply to Re: Selegiline Citrate vs selegiline hydrochloride » pseudonym, posted by Larry Hoover on November 15, 2004, at 22:32:10
Like Larry I had an acid reflux reaction to 5mg of selegiline with DLPA, severe enough to send me to the emergency room. Interesting to read someone else had that same reaction. I thought it was just my quirky G.I. tract or something. I've often wondered whether it was the selegiline, the DLPA or the combo that was the culprit...
Posted by pseudonym on November 16, 2004, at 11:22:27
In reply to Re: Selegiline Citrate vs selegiline hydrochloride » pseudonym, posted by Larry Hoover on November 15, 2004, at 22:32:10
Now, I would agree with the acid reflux issue regarding selegiline. Some may consider that a non-issue, but its not fun to have your stomach roiling.
That's why I reduced the selegiline hydrochloride from 10, down to 7.5, to 5, and finally to 2.5. My currentl form of selegiline (Jumex) does cause me stomach issues at 5mg and above.
Posted by Iansf on November 16, 2004, at 19:05:44
In reply to Re: Selegiline Citrate vs selegiline hydrochloride, posted by Willyee on November 15, 2004, at 22:20:55
> Unfortuantly it was to accumative for me to take as often as i needed,causing severe anxiety and agitation,and wasnt enough to take sparingly as in drop or two a day or days,but i rember hearing from quite a number of places that the liquid form was far superior to the pill form.
>If the liquid form indeed is superior to the pill form, might that be because more of the drug is actually getting into your system? And might that not mean that you should observe standard MAOI dietary restrictions even if the dose is technically below the threshold of risk? After all, if 10mg liquid selegiline is equivalent in mental effect to, say, 20mg in pill form, it might also be equivalent in physiological effect.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 16, 2004, at 23:10:28
In reply to my selegiline acid reflux reaction, posted by hugo on November 16, 2004, at 0:06:28
> Like Larry I had an acid reflux reaction to 5mg of selegiline with DLPA, severe enough to send me to the emergency room. Interesting to read someone else had that same reaction. I thought it was just my quirky G.I. tract or something. I've often wondered whether it was the selegiline, the DLPA or the combo that was the culprit...
I don't think it's DLPA related, as it happened to me when I restricted phenylalanine. One night I awoke from a dead sleep with my whole throat burning, and an evil taste in my mouth. Worst such attack I recall in many years.
I can't find a single reference to it in the literature. Nausea is mentioned, but not reflux.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 16, 2004, at 23:12:10
In reply to Re: Selegiline Citrate vs selegiline hydrochloride, posted by pseudonym on November 16, 2004, at 11:22:27
> Now, I would agree with the acid reflux issue regarding selegiline. Some may consider that a non-issue, but its not fun to have your stomach roiling.
>
> That's why I reduced the selegiline hydrochloride from 10, down to 7.5, to 5, and finally to 2.5. My currentl form of selegiline (Jumex) does cause me stomach issues at 5mg and above.I guess that's because it bypasses the stomach altogether. I just checked the Health Canada database, and there is no sublingual product similar to Jumex licensed for sale in Canada.
:-/
Lar
Posted by Willyee on November 17, 2004, at 12:37:37
In reply to Re: Selegiline Citrate vs selegiline hydrochloride » Willyee, posted by Iansf on November 16, 2004, at 19:05:44
> > Unfortuantly it was to accumative for me to take as often as i needed,causing severe anxiety and agitation,and wasnt enough to take sparingly as in drop or two a day or days,but i rember hearing from quite a number of places that the liquid form was far superior to the pill form.
> >
>
> If the liquid form indeed is superior to the pill form, might that be because more of the drug is actually getting into your system? And might that not mean that you should observe standard MAOI dietary restrictions even if the dose is technically below the threshold of risk? After all, if 10mg liquid selegiline is equivalent in mental effect to, say, 20mg in pill form, it might also be equivalent in physiological effect.I have gotten into the habbit of choosing a over all Maoi safe diet since i started parnate,this does not mean however my diet adhered even closly to the tight restrictions on the list,over time i found out what i truly needed to avoided,which for me ended up being only soy sauce,as for my diet in general,i had zero problems on parnate so i dident concern myself to much with deprenyl.
The main reason i dident try raising the dose is i noticed the most benifit from it at a smaller dose,at the higer doses it affected me differently,so when the lower dose stopped producing a benifit,i finished my last of supply and deceded it dident offer enough benifit over parnate which i was getting at a much lower cost,if however parnate and i hate to even say this theoreticaly was not avaialble,then i would consider liquid deprenyl as a possable replacment,one of the only ones actualy,however at this time its just too expensive.
Posted by pseudonym on November 19, 2004, at 17:03:38
In reply to Re: Selegiline Citrate vs selegiline hydrochloride, posted by Willyee on November 17, 2004, at 12:37:37
Sounds like more research on selegiline metabolites, mechanism, route and and form of administration is needed. I think the data is there on the net, I'll just need to scrutinize it.
Posted by jboud24 on November 20, 2004, at 18:43:15
In reply to Re: Selegiline Citrate vs selegiline hydrochloride, posted by Willyee on November 17, 2004, at 12:37:37
How about just taking 1/4 of the Jumex deprenyl tablets and let it dissolve under the tongue? This is the method I do, and the small amount of pill is completely non-visible under the tongue after about 2-3 minutes.
BTW, on another note, I just thought I should mention that on a mg per mg basis, there is 3x as much of the l-deprenyl active ingredient in 1mg of Selegiline HCl versus Selegiline citrate.
I think that's why the 'Zydis' sublingual Selegiline works so well, because it uses 1.25mg of the HCl salt instead of the citrate salt. The 1.25mg Zydis sublingual Selegiline produced plasma levels of l-deprenyl slightly greater than those of 10mg oral Selegiline HCl while substantially reducing the formation of the levo-amphetamine metabolic by-products.Just thought I'd pass that along. I don't know if this has really been covered before here, but there it is again, anyway.
Good Luck to all w/ the Selegiline whatever salt form. It's a really great drug that is way to commonly overlooked in the treatment of various psychological disorders. I'm sticking with my sublingual 1.25-2.5mg Jumex HCl for now as it is doing the trick great.
Justin
This is the end of the thread.
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