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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by bridgey1128 on October 21, 2004, at 11:03:52
In reply to Re: Topomax and bipolar II » rainy, posted by iris2 on October 21, 2004, at 10:32:34
First..what does being a Unitarian Universalist have to do with anything..I am confused about that one...but anyway..I hate to tell you Irene..but the angry outburst and all you said...that HONESTLY fits the bipolar II and you do NOT need to be on ritalin!!!!! WHY OH WHY are you on it? You have not explained this. If you are on it for an "upper" and you are not ADHD...it makes me wonder what purpose you would have this prescription, as this is an ADHD drug. If you are bipolar you cannot be ADHD. The two have similar symptoms but if actually NEEDED the ritalin it should not make you hyper. In fact, it seems to be putting you into a hypomanic state. The yelling and such is just that. If ritalin causes you to be hyper, you should not take it. IT"S SPEED MY DEAR!!! In people who genuinely NEED it, it should not cause you to be hyper. My son is ADHD, and because he is, his brain chemistry is wired differently. When he takes a stimulant drug, it causes him to be able to concentate, to CALM him. Of course, this can backfire, because too much of a drug like ritalin can make obsessive behaviors worse, because it can cause a child to concentrate on an obsessive behavior. If someone takes a stimulant drug who does not NEED one, it is QUITE obvious. If you are bipolar and take ritalin, it would most obivously give you the wired results you described. What you did describe is an addiction. You need to get OFF the ritalin and go to a psychiatrist and be diagnosed with the right diagnoses. I think you sound like you are definately bipolar II, NOT ADHD. Whereas, they have some similar characteristics, the fact that you are taking ritalin and it is putting you into a hypomanic state, tells me that you are NOT ADHD and, in fact, probably bipolar. If you are, being on the correct drug will help with the mood swings and energy level. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I am a self abuser too. I tend to hit myself in the head when I am angry and yell. I know when I need to go up on my meds too because I get frustrated and tend to throw things around as well. Things get "hidden" and "lost". Also, if you were taking too much Ritalin you wouldn't be hyper if you were ADHD, you would be sluggish and doped. The fact that you were extremely talkative when you were taking a lot of Ritalin also makes me think you shouldn't be taking it. Think about it. It's methylphenidate. It's essentially "speed". I don't know how you are getting it, or how you were prescribed it, but I think you really need to rethink taking it.
Posted by merry on October 21, 2004, at 11:34:59
In reply to Re: Topomax and bipolar II, posted by bridgey1128 on October 21, 2004, at 10:21:21
I was wondering about the welbutrin. I feel since I've been on it I've been bonkers. Because I am bipolar II wouldn't the darn doc know not to put me on that stuff it will irritate the heck out of me. I notice since i've been on it I've been angry all the time. My anger outburst are even worse than ever. I expressed my concerns to my doc and that I suspected that It was the Wella. and he just dismissed it and told me to take more xanax whenever I felt I was going to get angry. But I never new when that was going to happen because before I knew it the damage was done and I was patching another hole in the wall or cleaning up the broken nic nacs from the floor. So anyway, I am looking for another doc. and thanks for the advice about the topomax. I decreased it down by 25mg and I am feeling alittle better now. merry
Posted by redscarlet on October 21, 2004, at 11:43:10
In reply to Re: Topomax and bipolar II, posted by bridgey1128 on October 21, 2004, at 10:21:21
> People who have bipolar shouldn't take antidepressants and Welbutrin is one of them. I am assuming it might be the Welbutrin that is messing you up. How long have you taken it? Topomax shouldn't CAUSE irritability, it should help relieve it, especially since you are bipolar II and that is a symptom of it. I find that very confusing that it would cause something it is supposed to be relieving. Unfortunately, being bipolar, we don't have too many drugs that aren't straight antidepressants that we can take compared to the tons of antidepresants out there. Welbutrin made me BONKERS!!!! It did the same thing to me. I can't take antidepressants because they just don't work. I would be more likely to suspect the Welbutrin than I would the Topomax. Also, how slowly are you going up on the Topomax? If you are going up too fast, that can cause some wacky side effects. Going up any faster than 25mg every 2-3 weeks will do it. That could be a cause too.
***Sorry but this is just not true. Many, many people with bipolar (including myself) take antidepressants along with their mood stabilizer.
And just an F.Y.I., I'm on welbutrin & have been taking it for almost a year with no problems & I take 450mgs everyday.
Posted by Stressee on October 21, 2004, at 11:52:41
In reply to Re: Topomax and bipolar II » rainy, posted by iris2 on October 21, 2004, at 10:32:34
Woa! I have never been diagnosed as bipolar II, but what you just wrote is exactly how I act and feel. In fact, I am having one of those days now. I called a sub for my class because I just couldn't concentrate and felt like crying every moment this morning. My daughter and I weren't getting along this morning and when I get upset, I can't handle ANYTHING. I take Wellbutrin and I now realize it's not doing anything for me. I socially withdraw myself when things are getting stressful and I don't think that's normal after reading what everyone is writing these days. I also do much innapropriate yelling at kids and animals when I am upset, and also feel guilty as heck afterwards. The guilt then eats away at me and makes me more depressed. I sometimes don't want to get up in the morning because I just don't want to have to deal with the day. What do you think? -L
Posted by Stressee on October 21, 2004, at 12:28:29
In reply to Re: Topomax and bipolar II, posted by Stressee on October 21, 2004, at 11:52:41
My mind is off somewhere else......M increased her dosage to 150 mg per day of Topamax. We did have a small one question one answer disgussion last night (that's about all I can get),and she hasn't noticed it helping the binging yet. Should we stick with this? She has ringing in her ears, as well as tingling in the feet. I think I remember someone posted that the binging usually doesn't come under control until a large dose is taken. I don't think her DR. plans on titrating up anymore. I think it has controlled her moods a little more though. -L
Posted by rainy on October 21, 2004, at 14:46:48
In reply to Re: Topomax, posted by Stressee on October 21, 2004, at 12:28:29
I went to the grocery store and things sort of went in different directions while I was gone! Let me respond first to Bridgey, I think, who reminded me that going up too fast on Topomax can cause problems. Agreed. The thing is, I've been on this dose (300) since March or maybe I've gone down from (400) which is what's making me wonder about my big fat mouth.
And, I've been on Wellbutrin with first positive results and then a gradual zilch out sinc 1991. As for the Unitarian bit, I think I mentioned it just to indicate that for me to use "poop-head" in the Coming of Age class wasn't as horrible a transgression as it might have been in a less tolerant religious community, but it was unnecessary and I apologize.
A thought for Stressee and Iris. It took me years to be diagnosed. I began having what I now know are symptoms when I was about 15, but it wasn't until I was in my 50's that I finally sought psychiatric help for depression. That's what I was treated for until two years ago last summer, when the pdoc in a new community said "You are bipolar II, have some Lamictal."
My behavior hadn't changed all that much except I was more frantic, four days after moving in, when she first saw me. Since two other shrinks had missed the diagnosis, I think it would be hard for you or friendly strangers on the board to diagnose yourselves or anybody else. I'm still trying to rediagnose myself!
I don't want to sound unsympathetic, it's just that I can't say, yeah, it sounds like you've got bipolar II when I'm still trying to figure out if I've "got it" or if it's just me coming on too strong.
Am I making sense or sounding stuffy?
I think we all speak from our own experiences.(duh) I am really appreciating hearing from you--I felt, despite knowing better, that I was hanging in there by myself. I'm still not sure what racing thoughts are. I know I can't stop thinking sometimes. Is that it?
rainy
Posted by Stressee on October 21, 2004, at 15:49:28
In reply to Re: Topomax » Stressee, posted by rainy on October 21, 2004, at 14:46:48
Diagnosing myself has rubbed off from living with my hubby for so long. We laugh about him trying to diagonse himself and everyone else!! I am going to make an appt. with my dr to discuss these things. As for racing thoughts, I don't know what they are. Sometimes I fee as if my brain is frozen, and I can't concentrate or grasp what I am reading or trying to learn. Then again, that could be the "ditsy" coming out in me. As for foot in mouth; I am THE PROFESSIONAL! No kidding. Sometimes it's so bad that I come home and re-think about everything I said, worrying if someone would have taken it the wrong way. Many times they do, and tell me about it later. Why can't I just shut up when I'm ahead? -L
Posted by iris2 on October 21, 2004, at 16:11:39
In reply to Re: Topomax » Stressee, posted by rainy on October 21, 2004, at 14:46:48
Rainy,
We are all here well intentioned. I think it is wise to remember that we all come from our own experiences though. Also that symptoms are common to many different diagnosis. What might seem self evident to someone might not be the case because things are never as simple as they appear. Especially on a board like this where all we know about each other are what we selectively choose to type. Understood the religous reference.
Anyway I do not think the Ritalin makes me hyper or anything even remotely so. I have had drug addiction many years ago so it is not an unfamiliar thing to me. The Ritalin merely fills in some where an antidepressant might work better but unfortunately I am unable to take most antidepressants because of my bladder disease.
Thanks,
irene
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 21, 2004, at 17:19:28
In reply to Re: Topomax » rainy, posted by iris2 on October 21, 2004, at 16:11:39
I looked up Straterra..good news...its really an antidepressant! That would probably work better than the Ritalin. I had heard this before but hadn't looked it up until now. No wonder it didn't work on my son. He's not depressed, he's ADHD. :P I have no idea why it works. I have a theory and I share it with my son's Dr. Most kids who are diagnosed as ADHD and are on medication are neither ADHD nor need to BE on medication. If you pay attention to their parents you can clearly see WHY. Children with no boundaries act as if they have no impulses. Why? Because they have never been taught to control them. Parenting now is a horrible joke. Parents are too worried about being their child's friend instead of being their child's parent. I know so many kids that are SOOOO hyper and I have actually caught myself thinking, that kid needs some Ritalin. Then my son's NEW Dr sent me his 10 page research on ADHD. It was quite a wake up call. It made me rethink it and think about the parents of the children I knew whom I had thought about needing Ritalin. It was the PARENT'S fault the child had no inpulse control and couldn't sit still. THey had never been MADE to behave and they had never been MADE to have manners or have boundaries. No WONDER there is such a huge increase in the # of ADHD cases. It's the lack of parenting skills America has now. No one wants to actually discipline their children because they don't want to hurt their "self esteem". What a joke! Studies have shown again and again that these are the kids who grow up to be in jail and care about no one but themselves! They have no manners, have unstable relationships and don't do as well in school. And the worse part is, I know parents who home school their kids simply because they are afraid that the school will tell them their kids need to be on drugs. I am thinking...um..maybe if you had disciplined them a little more when they were younger and made them behave you wouldn't have nearly the problems you have now. Then you could actually SCREEN the ones who actually NEED to be on medication aside from the one's who just have behavior problems from lack of discipline. Our son is one of the actual like 4% who need to be on medication. We discipline, he does not have behavior problems. In fact, when we started telling people he was ADHD they were shocked because he was so well behaved. He just couldn't concentrate and gets EXTREMELY frustrated. That and we have to tell him things 15 times looking him dead in the face while his eyes wander all over the place. We literally would have to hold his head still and look him in the face and have to keep saying.."LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" because he would be SOOO distracted. He also has obessessive compulsive tendencies, which come with the territory. Other than the compulsiveness, distractability, and impulsiveness he is very well behaved and well mannered. Why? Well.. BECAUSE WE MAKE OUR CHILDREN BEHAVE! It's just that simple. They have no choice but to understand that we are the parents and they are the children. DO they doubt we love them? NO! In fact, My son will be 7 tomorrow and still tells me in FRONT of complete strangers in the middle of Walmart that he loves me. Not a single cuss word has ever come from his mouth. Nor my daughter's who is 3. Do we spank? You bet! Do we have to frequently? Not anymore. I'm not saying all this to brag on my parenting skills because GOD KNOWS I have my share of problems. I have mentioned them! I yell. I have a temper.(redhead thing)I don't spank in anger though..I make sure of that. Was there a purpose to my rant? I dunno..maybe I just wanted to get it off my chest. I think too many parents rely on drugs and not parenting skills or vice versa. There are kids who NEED medication and their parents are too proud to admit their child needs to be on medication! Thanks for divulging me. :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 21, 2004, at 23:35:16
In reply to Re: Topomax, posted by bridgey1128 on October 21, 2004, at 17:19:28
> Parenting now is a horrible joke.
> No one wants to actually discipline their children because they don't want to hurt their "self esteem".Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 22, 2004, at 9:03:33
In reply to Re: please be civil » bridgey1128, posted by Dr. Bob on October 21, 2004, at 23:35:16
I apologize. I wasn't trying to hurt feelings!
Posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 9:55:28
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by bridgey1128 on October 22, 2004, at 9:03:33
Stressee, this is message number three--they are getting shorter and shorter. Something about my registration.
1. I've been thinking about you and M. and wish you both well. My appetite began to change around 225 mgs. Soft drinks went flat at 300.
2.What are your impressions of Topamax now that you've read about several different experiences on the drug? If you haven't already, you might want to go all the way back to Ellen Brodie in 1999, top of the thread. Gobs of information. Similar issues, too.
3. I don't want to sound patronizing but: have questions or comments occured to you since the last round? They keep popping up in my head. I've only been on the stuff since 1992.
4. I'd reazlly like to talk with you about the eating disorder but I don't think this board is the place. I can say, though, that Topamax, finally, has helped me with mine.
Let's see if this goes through!
linda
Posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 9:58:13
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 9:55:28
Kat, how are you feeling?
rainy
Posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 10:39:35
In reply to Re: Topomax » rainy, posted by iris2 on October 21, 2004, at 16:11:39
Hi, Irene. I like what you said about us all being well intentioned. It fits right in with another example of my version of foot in mouth that I'd stewed about for over a week at the beginning of the month. A woman in a small group facilitators' meeting had had her feelings hurt because I had objected (unncessarily)colorfully? strongly? dark humoredly? to some words she'd used in a job description. She'd carried her hurt around for a month before letting me know indirectly. I was annoyed and embarrassesed and very sorry and again thought "stupid Topamax," "Stupid linda."
A good thing came of it, though--we agreed to assume good faith on the part of each other and the entire group. (She thought I was dissing her, I thought she was after me). I'm going to insert this good faith thing into my small group's covenant when we meet for the first time this coming Wednesday.
So thank you for reminding me of that. As for the ritalin, I'm so far from understanding it except as a drug for kids with an attention or hyperactivity disorder (I can't remember the acronym)that I can't for the life of me think that I referred to it. I know I've wondered, casting about for alternative diagnoses, if maybe I've got the adult form, but no.
Something else you wrote intrigues me--that you can't use antidepressants because of a bladder problem--that's got to be frustrating. I haven't heard of that barrier to AD use. (Mine's not wanting to gain weight! and the meds not working.) Is it a common problem?
linda
Posted by Stressee on October 22, 2004, at 10:48:34
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 9:55:28
Don't worry about being patronizing, I know I am here for advice and am happy to listen to whatever you have to say, negative or positive. I actually went back this morning and looked at some of the older posts, hoping to find more information. I do know that this drug may or may not help the BED, but for her sanity, she needs something. I know it's exasperating to not be able to help yourself, and I have a difficult time standing by and watching the pain. It's heartbreaking to listen to her say she can't stop even when she want's it so much. She says it's miserable, and I believe her. (Do you have children? I know I have not asked, or at least I don't think you have said) I think she may not be high enough just yet, or maybe never will be . I will be happy to give you my e-mail address if you would like. (let me know) That may be easier for you to ask the questions you are wanting to ask. I value your knowledge on this matter, and 12 yrs. on Topamax would give you quite a bit. -L
Posted by iris2 on October 22, 2004, at 12:09:02
In reply to Re: Topomax, posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 10:39:35
Linda,
It is my personal experience that most of the time what I or someone else says is well intentioned.
It was not you who brought up the Ritalin. If anyone wants to know I started taking it for hypotention for Parnate and continued to use it as a mood elevator a little and for my extreme fatigue.
Here is the explanation for all the strange meds I take. Each has a little effect on mood or energy but would not be anyone’s first choice in an arsenal for depression.
I have a rare bladder disease called interstitial cystitis or I.C. Luckily most of the time anymore I do not have symptoms except when I take antidepressants, especially ones that are stimulating that would likely help me. My symptoms are urinary frequency/urgency and sometimes extreme pain. I cannot take other types of medications too. I also cannot eat certain foods such as citrus, certain spices etc. I have a huge list of foods to avoid. My pdoc put me on Oxycontin for severe pain I started having from the I.C. which I still take for mood (another odd one). My brother is in naturopathic school and we spoke and decided to try an elimination diet and a regimen of supplements. For 9 months I stayed strictly on this diet and took all the supplements and every symptom disappeared. Except for when I took medications. I am kind of proud of myself that I had enough self disciplin to do this. If the symptoms come back to any great degree I will go back on the supplements and although I still am fairly strict with my diet I could do better. It was even more difficult because I have an eating disorder and messing with my diet is a big deal. I went off of the supplements because I was supposed to taper off of them after 6 months so I followed this whole thing perfectly. Because of the meds I am having some symptoms but not bad although I am taking the Oxycontine for them again. I used to have what is called DSMO therapy for my bladder. It is when the doctor distills a small amount of DSMO ( a chemical solvent) into my bladder. It worked but I think it might be the reason I started having pain with the disease as I had never had pain as a symptom before getting these treatments. I would rather go the natural route especailly since it worked so well and for so long. I know this is more detail than you wanted but I have a hard time knowing how much is enough. Sorry!
irene
Posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 12:22:37
In reply to Re: Topomax and bipolar II, posted by redscarlet on October 21, 2004, at 11:43:10
My posts keep flying away!! This is #2.
Sure, Stressee, let's exchange e-mail addresses. How to do? Flat out on the board? I've forgotten, how confidential is this site? It's important that this disorder remains undercover with my husband's employers for at least another year. Right now I hope they assume that I'm just odd, or difficult.
Let's see if there's a way we can do it confidentially. If not, maye you'd better give me your e-mail address. I'm sorry, I'd rather just splash it all over the board, but I'm a tiny tiny public figure in a benignly hostile enviornment.
Something else--A Big Mistake. (I sound like Pooh.) I've been on Wellbutrin since 2001, the year I stopped drinking, and Topamax since 2002. I've written other dates elsewhere but these are The Truth. I swear.
I've had anorexia/bulemia for 47 years and finally found help with Topamax 2 years ago. I will never go off, if I can help it, even if I insult people from here to wherever.
Dr. Bob, how do we exchange e-mails without blowing our cover?
rainy
Posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 12:41:35
In reply to Re: Topomax, posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 10:39:35
oopps. Sorry, Redscarlett, I was responing to stressee rather than you in that last post, although you have been on my mind.
You wrote a couple of days ago that a lot of bipolar II people take antidepressants as adjuncts to mood stabilizers--that's my understanding, too. Apparently, according to the literature, wellbutrin is one they're willing to try along with some others. The only ones that have worked for me have been wellbutrin, serzone and desyrel. I hope they keep working on some other good possibilities.
rainy
Posted by iris2 on October 22, 2004, at 12:47:47
In reply to Re being bipolar II, Civil and on Topamax » redscarlet, posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 12:22:37
Rainy,
If you change your profile so that you can recieve "Babblemail" then you do not have to post your email for all to see. I am interested in exchanging emails with you about the eating disorder stuff. I thought I had read you say something about an eating disorder. I am interested in conversing with someone else with this dreaded disease. I have had it for 30 years. If you are interested you can go to one of my posts (iris2) and afer the word post my nmae is in blue, just click on that to babble me and then you can write your email address. If you are not interseted with me you can also do this with anyone you choose if one of you can be babblemailed.One can exchange email addresses on the board if one choooses or you can change your profile so that someone can "Babblemail" you. That way knowone but the person "babblemailing" you, you and perhaps the administrators of the site will see your email address.
irene
Posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 13:24:42
In reply to Re: Re being bipolar II, Civil and on Topamax » rainy, posted by iris2 on October 22, 2004, at 12:47:47
OK, here is a seriously dumb question. Where do I find my profile to babble it? And Stressee, do you want to do this? I assume it means we can still post on the board. (Yes, sure, I'd like to Irene.)
rainy
Posted by Stressee on October 22, 2004, at 13:27:45
In reply to Re: Re being bipolar II, Civil and on Topamax » iris2, posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 13:24:42
I'm assuming we're both on here at the same time. I just figured out how to get babble mail, so that's done, I hope. I would love to do it, so please let me know if it doesn't work for you. This is open to the entire group, I will be happy to hear from you. -L
Posted by Stressee on October 22, 2004, at 13:29:19
In reply to Re: Re being bipolar II, Civil and on Topamax » rainy, posted by iris2 on October 22, 2004, at 12:47:47
Kat, I haven't seen any posting from you and am wondering if you are ok? -L
Posted by Stressee on October 22, 2004, at 13:33:56
In reply to bipolar and antidepressants, posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 12:41:35
Rainy, you have to go back to the registration and update it. They will then send you back a password to confirm the update,and you should be good -to- go. -L
Posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 13:38:06
In reply to Are you OK, Kat?, posted by Stressee on October 22, 2004, at 13:29:19
Yeah, I've been wondering about that, too. You seem to be really quiet.
Also, after having seen my profile four times too many today, I can't get the danged thing up again. And Iris, I wrote you a message, but you aint on! try try again. You next, stressee.
Nothing about topamax here.
rainy
Posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 13:49:13
In reply to Re: Are you OK, Kat? » Stressee, posted by rainy on October 22, 2004, at 13:38:06
Gaaaaaa!!!! I don't know how to do it. I can't get anybody's name to turn blue. I can't find my stupid profile. I have to go pick up some books. Maybe it'll be better when I get home. This #$%@#.
rainy
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