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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by L McLean on September 21, 2004, at 14:08:31
No More Anti-depressants
For Me!
Everyone Needs To Know
My name is Lenard. I have been dealing with major depression for about 3 years now, and I am going to win the fight! I have been hospitalized, and treated by several different mental health agencies. They all provide little counseling, and quick prescriptions. They tell you that Depression is a serious problem, (and it is). However, they tell almost everyone who has a mental disorder that the disorder is due to a chemical imbalance, and write out a prescription. Often the prescription is for a drug that is very new to the market, or has had little wide spread use.
However, from my experience, MOST people do not need these risky drugs. They talk of the amazing effectiveness of the drugs, but usually skip over the stories of the people who have had negative, and even deadly effects from the medications. Let me tell you, there are many problems with some of these substances!
I use the term SUBSTANCES because, often these drugs have delusional, and even addictive effects. At the same time, these drugs usually do not offer the groundbreaking results that the manufacturers boast of. You might even go as far as to say (some of the pharmaceutical companies) just out-right lie, or misrepresent there narcotic like products.
As I stated, I have battled depression for several years. I have been prescribed about three different Anti-depressants (who’s names for legal reasons, I cannot say). However, I can tell you not one of them have done me any good. They have even caused mind boggling heart rate fluctuations, and very disorienting euphoric delusions, and that’s just the “expected reactions” while you are using the drugs. It can be night-mayorish to withdraw from these substances. Hell in a Pill. That’s my view of these drugs now.
Just surf around the Internet, and you will quickly find message board upon message board telling of the horror stories of these drugs. Yet the drug companies keep pumping them out, doctors keep prescribing, and people keep taking these drugs. So, the hell continues, and usually, so does the problems. This is clearly a case of searching for that ideal quick fix. Courage in a pill, but that just isn’t what most people get.
I have said all of this, but I should say that there are a few people who are ravaged by mental illness who benefit from some of these drugs. However, the most common situation is people like me who just needed to change their living situations, and habits, and not the frightening side effects of some of these substances.
Posted by TomG on September 21, 2004, at 14:28:22
In reply to No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by L McLean on September 21, 2004, at 14:08:31
> I have said all of this, but I should say that there are a few people who are ravaged by mental illness who benefit from some of these drugs.
A few? Surely you must mean millions. I'm one of those millions by which these substances you speak of have given life back into a broken brain. Your bad experiences with drugs don't reflect the *masses* of those they have helped.
Posted by mcp on September 21, 2004, at 14:31:51
In reply to No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by L McLean on September 21, 2004, at 14:08:31
My life was a cup of tea until they started me on this junk. Man, would I ever love to give the doctors some of this crap and make them go through withdrawal. Anyways, I totally empathize with your story brother. Keep fighting. Have you looked into natural alternatives?
> No More Anti-depressants
>
> For Me!
>
> Everyone Needs To Know
>
>
> My name is Lenard. I have been dealing with major depression for about 3 years now, and I am going to win the fight! I have been hospitalized, and treated by several different mental health agencies. They all provide little counseling, and quick prescriptions. They tell you that Depression is a serious problem, (and it is). However, they tell almost everyone who has a mental disorder that the disorder is due to a chemical imbalance, and write out a prescription. Often the prescription is for a drug that is very new to the market, or has had little wide spread use.
>
>
>
> However, from my experience, MOST people do not need these risky drugs. They talk of the amazing effectiveness of the drugs, but usually skip over the stories of the people who have had negative, and even deadly effects from the medications. Let me tell you, there are many problems with some of these substances!
>
>
>
> I use the term SUBSTANCES because, often these drugs have delusional, and even addictive effects. At the same time, these drugs usually do not offer the groundbreaking results that the manufacturers boast of. You might even go as far as to say (some of the pharmaceutical companies) just out-right lie, or misrepresent there narcotic like products.
>
>
>
> As I stated, I have battled depression for several years. I have been prescribed about three different Anti-depressants (who’s names for legal reasons, I cannot say). However, I can tell you not one of them have done me any good. They have even caused mind boggling heart rate fluctuations, and very disorienting euphoric delusions, and that’s just the “expected reactions” while you are using the drugs. It can be night-mayorish to withdraw from these substances. Hell in a Pill. That’s my view of these drugs now.
>
>
>
> Just surf around the Internet, and you will quickly find message board upon message board telling of the horror stories of these drugs. Yet the drug companies keep pumping them out, doctors keep prescribing, and people keep taking these drugs. So, the hell continues, and usually, so does the problems. This is clearly a case of searching for that ideal quick fix. Courage in a pill, but that just isn’t what most people get.
>
>
>
> I have said all of this, but I should say that there are a few people who are ravaged by mental illness who benefit from some of these drugs. However, the most common situation is people like me who just needed to change their living situations, and habits, and not the frightening side effects of some of these substances.
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by AuntieMel on September 21, 2004, at 14:55:38
In reply to Couldn't agree with you more, posted by mcp on September 21, 2004, at 14:31:51
I ended up on the drugs because it was either that or die. I fought for years to handle it myself.
Why did you start taking meds in the first place? You say your life was a cup of tea.
Posted by karaS on September 21, 2004, at 15:23:20
In reply to No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by L McLean on September 21, 2004, at 14:08:31
> No More Anti-depressants
>
> For Me!
>
> Everyone Needs To Know
>
>
> My name is Lenard. I have been dealing with major depression for about 3 years now, and I am going to win the fight! I have been hospitalized, and treated by several different mental health agencies. They all provide little counseling, and quick prescriptions. They tell you that Depression is a serious problem, (and it is). However, they tell almost everyone who has a mental disorder that the disorder is due to a chemical imbalance, and write out a prescription. Often the prescription is for a drug that is very new to the market, or has had little wide spread use.
>
>
>
> However, from my experience, MOST people do not need these risky drugs. They talk of the amazing effectiveness of the drugs, but usually skip over the stories of the people who have had negative, and even deadly effects from the medications. Let me tell you, there are many problems with some of these substances!
>
>
>
> I use the term SUBSTANCES because, often these drugs have delusional, and even addictive effects. At the same time, these drugs usually do not offer the groundbreaking results that the manufacturers boast of. You might even go as far as to say (some of the pharmaceutical companies) just out-right lie, or misrepresent there narcotic like products.
>
>
>
> As I stated, I have battled depression for several years. I have been prescribed about three different Anti-depressants (who’s names for legal reasons, I cannot say). However, I can tell you not one of them have done me any good. They have even caused mind boggling heart rate fluctuations, and very disorienting euphoric delusions, and that’s just the “expected reactions” while you are using the drugs. It can be night-mayorish to withdraw from these substances. Hell in a Pill. That’s my view of these drugs now.
>
>
>
> Just surf around the Internet, and you will quickly find message board upon message board telling of the horror stories of these drugs. Yet the drug companies keep pumping them out, doctors keep prescribing, and people keep taking these drugs. So, the hell continues, and usually, so does the problems. This is clearly a case of searching for that ideal quick fix. Courage in a pill, but that just isn’t what most people get.
>
>
>
> I have said all of this, but I should say that there are a few people who are ravaged by mental illness who benefit from some of these drugs. However, the most common situation is people like me who just needed to change their living situations, and habits, and not the frightening side effects of some of these substances.
>
>
>
>
These medications and the system we have for prescribing them are far from perfect. It's hit or miss and the consequences/side effects can be quite bad. I can appreciate your decision to never use antidepressants again based on your experience but I don't think it's fair to generalize so much about the ramifications for others. There are tons of people for whom these medications have been life savers. Many of them post on this board and I have known quite a few myself. Many of these people had horrific reactions to medications before they found one or a combination of ones that worked for them. Maybe all you needed was to change your lifestyle. That doesn't mean that is the answer for everone else though. It's a very personal decision to keep trying medications with all of the possible side effects - a constant cost/benefit analysis that each individual has to make for themselves.
Posted by Emme on September 21, 2004, at 16:43:14
In reply to No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by L McLean on September 21, 2004, at 14:08:31
>
> My name is Lenard. I have been dealing with major depression for about 3 years now, and I am going to win the fight! I have been hospitalized, and treated by several different mental health agencies.I'm sorry you have had such difficulties. It's good that you have such strong perseverence.
> They all provide little counseling, and quick prescriptions. They tell you that Depression is a serious problem, (and it is).
Counseling is important. Research has shown that the best results come from receiving both medicine and counseling. Many on this board do both.
I can't help but wonder if your strong opinions against medication are the result of having received poor care. You've said you've been treated by different agencies and you probably didn't get the most consistent care and may not have gotten the most knowledgable pharmacologists. And as you said, not enough counseling.
> However, from my experience, MOST people do not need these risky drugs.
It's problematic to generalize from your experience to the general population.
> They talk of the amazing effectiveness of the drugs, but usually skip over the stories of the people who have had negative, and even deadly effects from the medications. Let me tell you, there are many problems with some of these substances!
On a logical basis, most of those who have had good and ongoing success are not posting on the internet. They're going about their lives. On an anecdotal basis, I have personally known a number of people whose lives have been enourmously improved or even saved by either the temporary or ongoing use of psychotropic medications. From an epidemiological point, one of our members has summarized the results of studies tracking suicides with antidepressant use. Check out the above threat on AD use and suicide.
> I use the term SUBSTANCES because, often these drugs have delusional, and even addictive effects.
The difference between addiction and physiological dependence has been discussed many times on this forum. You might wish to check the archives to see what's been said in the discussions.
> At the same time, these drugs usually do not offer the groundbreaking results that the manufacturers boast of.
Again, sampling effects (populations on internet boards). Even for those of us that do not have miraculous results, the partial responses that we get are crucial. I personally owe my diploma to an antidepressant restoring my mental and emotional capabilities.
> misrepresent there narcotic like products.
The antidepressants, benzodiazapenes, anticonvulsants, and antipsychotics prescribed for our conditions are not narcotics. It is unclear what you mean by narcotic-like.
> As I stated, I have battled depression for several years. I have been prescribed about three different Anti-depressants (who’s names for legal reasons, I cannot say).Is there a reason you can't tell us? We discuss specific drugs here all the time. Actually, three tries isn't that many. It's tiring to try a lot of different drugs, but sometimes you do hit pay dirt after several attempts.
> However, I can tell you not one of them have done me any good. They have even caused mind boggling heart rate fluctuations, and very disorienting euphoric delusions, and that’s just the “expected reactions” while you are using the drugs.
Without knowing what you were on, it's hard to comment, but the disorienting delusions makes me wonder if there's a bipolar issue that wasn't caught.
> This is clearly a case of searching for that ideal quick fix. Courage in a pill, but that just isn’t what most people get.
We are not simply looking for a quick fix or courage in a pill. We don't *want* to take them. We are looking to stop the mental torture so that we can do the work of regaining healthy lives. The decision to take medication is done with careful thought and discussion with a mental health professional.
> I have said all of this, but I should say that there are a few people who are ravaged by mental illness who benefit from some of these drugs.I suspect that few would number in the millions.
> However, the most common situation is people like me who just needed to change their living situations, and habits, and not the frightening side effects of some of these substances.
Again, it's not informative to generalize from yourself to other people. If you get remission from changes in your life situation alone, that's wonderful. As you noted above, depression is a serious illness. The only people to judge the correct treatment for someone is that person and their doctor. Remember, everyone here is pretty well versed in the pharmacology and we're already familiar with the pros and cons of psychotropic medications.
Posted by mcp on September 21, 2004, at 17:02:29
In reply to Re: Silly question? » mcp, posted by AuntieMel on September 21, 2004, at 14:55:38
I was exagerating to make a point. My life wasn't a cup of tea. HOwever, it was manageable. Now, I have to stay in bed half the time because these "nonaddictive" meds have screwed up my brain so bad. Look, I get the fact that these meds are lifesavers for many. I truly do believe that they harm as many as they help, sometimes in a catastrophic fashion. Perhaps my zeal is matched by someone who has had a good experience with ADs and APs. Nonetheless, I think they are overprescribed and dangerous. Furthermore, the medical community and the public needs a much greater education on these meds that goes beyond propoganda spewed by the pharmaceutical industry. There has to be a good middle-ground here.
> I ended up on the drugs because it was either that or die. I fought for years to handle it myself.
>
> Why did you start taking meds in the first place? You say your life was a cup of tea.
Posted by Camille Dumont on September 21, 2004, at 17:23:21
In reply to No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by L McLean on September 21, 2004, at 14:08:31
I had similar reactions when I was on antidepressants and antipsychotics I didn't need. I was very angry at my doctor, especially when I had seizures and then when I was going through Effexor withdrawal but as it got better I tried to understand the Dr.'s point of view.
I mean when the depression is very severe, which is worse? The medications side effects ... unplesant or otherwise or the very potential untreated depression side effect called suicide. Sometimes it is the crutch you need to get you through the worse.
Posted by SLS on September 21, 2004, at 17:27:55
In reply to No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by L McLean on September 21, 2004, at 14:08:31
Mentally healthy people get major depression and bipolar disorder too.
- Scott
Posted by Waki on September 21, 2004, at 18:49:28
In reply to Re: No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by Camille Dumont on September 21, 2004, at 17:23:21
Meds help so many people get their life back if not save it.everyone has a uniqe issue which is why people keep trying new meds.
i feel so much better on meds i could care less if i am on them the rest of my life.
people blame doctors because they can't figure it out, however mental illness is barely measurable as compared to a fever, blood count, low blood pressure.
to even compound what you say, i am in a research program that they try these new meds out and combine them with old meds sometimes. i feel better, so why would i take another position?
it's a trial and error game for now and i like to consider myself a major player.meds are an individual decision, there is no right or no wrong.
Posted by mcp on September 21, 2004, at 19:21:36
In reply to Re: I dissagree, posted by Waki on September 21, 2004, at 18:49:28
I am glad to hear meds have helped you so much. THat is great. That would explain your adamance in espousing the virtues of these meds. On the other hand, I have been seriously damaged by antidepressants. I have been off of Lexapro for two months and I am still sick as a dog unable to function on many levels. That would probably explain my vehemence in what I am saying. You are right. It is a trial and error thing. The problem is that the errors often lead to devastating results. My case, while horribly debilitating on a personal level, pales in comparison to the more serious cases where meds have driven people to even worse circumstances. Like I said, there needs to be a happy middle ground. THe problem is that we will never find one while the pharmaceutical industry yields the enormous power that they do. All the best.
> Meds help so many people get their life back if not save it.everyone has a uniqe issue which is why people keep trying new meds.
>
> i feel so much better on meds i could care less if i am on them the rest of my life.
>
> people blame doctors because they can't figure it out, however mental illness is barely measurable as compared to a fever, blood count, low blood pressure.
>
> to even compound what you say, i am in a research program that they try these new meds out and combine them with old meds sometimes. i feel better, so why would i take another position?
> it's a trial and error game for now and i like to consider myself a major player.
>
> meds are an individual decision, there is no right or no wrong.
Posted by Catgirl on September 21, 2004, at 19:32:22
In reply to Re: I dissagree, posted by Waki on September 21, 2004, at 18:49:28
The decision to take these medications is, and must be, an individual one.
My experience is that I am very glad I have found a medication that works. My anxiety/depression was almost crippling me into staying inside all the time. My life literally felt like it was on the verge of shattering.
I know that it is hard to start and stop these medications, but there was no workable alternative for me and I am finally feeling close to normal again thanks to the medicine in combination with therapy.
Posted by ron1953 on September 23, 2004, at 0:44:43
In reply to Re: I dissagree, posted by Catgirl on September 21, 2004, at 19:32:22
McLean:
You seem to be absolutely positive that the medications have caused your debilitating condition. I certainly respect your opinions and empathize with your suffering. But I wonder if your conviction may be affecting your judgement and consideration of other possible causes and treatments for your condition.
Posted by ants on September 23, 2004, at 11:33:51
In reply to No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by L McLean on September 21, 2004, at 14:08:31
I tend to agree with you. I only recently got onto meds (effexor) and while I do have a great little buzz going, I am thinking maybe I should get off while I can. I think my problems now stem from feeling stuck in a job that I hate! On the other hand, when I have had "fun, exciting" jobs, I spent a lot of time making plans that I never follow through on, feeling like there was something more for me to do but I couldn't go do it, so maybe I am sort of crazy after all...
I don't know what the answer is, but I don't like the direction the health world is headed, with everyone just sitting around stoned all the time with a goofy grin on their face. Who is going to be left to make positive changes if we all drug ourselves into being happy with the staus quo?
Posted by L McLean on September 23, 2004, at 14:07:17
In reply to Re: I dissagree, posted by ron1953 on September 23, 2004, at 0:44:43
I don't want to sound rude but, I know that the meds caused the problems because, after I quit the meds, the problems go away. This stuff does not work for many of us. If it works for you, I am sincerely happy but, no more for me!!
Posted by L McLean on September 23, 2004, at 14:22:02
In reply to Re: No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by ants on September 23, 2004, at 11:33:51
Ants:
While I must admit, I have had the same thoughts, I must say, while meds aren't right for everyone, they are right for SOME! My big problem is with the docs that talk to you for about 2 minutes, and then write out a scrip. I have met many docs like that, and that does not help anyone. However, you should evaluate your situation carefully with a considerate doc, and look at all the options. Maybe meds are right for you, Maybe Not! I simply say, consider ALL of the options, and don't let your doc substitute counseling with a scrip. Because, no matter if meds work for you, or not, we ALL need the counseling most of all. Please act carefully, and use good judgement. Good luck!!
Posted by paulbwell on September 23, 2004, at 23:15:38
In reply to Re: No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by L McLean on September 23, 2004, at 14:22:02
Yer Mclean,
gota say I agree I'm currently on my third! trial of celexa! (God knoes why){2 weeks}and i'm more Depressed than b4 I started it. Tried
Prozac-major cortisol increase
Paxil-major weird out
Serzone-Space cadetThe best 'AD' Iv tried is Ritalin!
Lets turn things back 40 years, where if you had a problem, you got quick fix for it, no 4-6 week BS wait for relief
Times when if you cldn't sleep you got
-Seconal
-numbutal
-Qualuude
and you got good heavy sleep from night onewhen Depressed, you got
-Dexedrine
-Ritalin
-Desoxyephidrine Desoxyn
and got instant relief in 1-2 days, not the 'latest' hotshot SSRI,(whichever 1 the Doc is getting the best kickback from the Dope company from) with the encouragement of the doctor, to "give it another week" everytime you speak to him.Try giving a car crash patient a medication which 'may ease pain in 2-4 weeks!!
Yer makes as much sense.
I'm stopping this Celexa Sh*t and getting my Rit back or hopefully Dex. Good thing I have an 'ADHD' diagnosis.
Peace
Posted by L McLean on September 24, 2004, at 7:57:26
In reply to Re: No More Anti-Depressants for Me, posted by paulbwell on September 23, 2004, at 23:15:38
Ah, You raise a good point as well Paul. A LoT of docs do work with the drug companies, and prescribe the latest fad, and the docs get major bling bling out of it. I'm not saying all, but from my experience, MANY! I feel it should be illegal for the drug companies to basically pay the docs to promote their junk, which often times, they know little to nothing about the effectiveness, or side effects of. I mean, we already have this cursed thing called depression. We don't want to be depressed lab rats! Oh, and when there is a complication with the med, the docs usually say, We don't feel it will be a long lasting problem. (HA) I was started on ADs because I was suicidal, and the meds they continue to give me each time simply add to the problems. I wonder if they call increased suicidal feelings "a long lasting problem!
I should say, Not all docs are this way, I'm sure, but all that I have been treated by have been. I have had plenty of people get angry with me about my opinions, but I have to be honest.!
Good luck Paul, and remember, you can win this battle with depression, and mad scientists (some call P'docs)!
This is the end of the thread.
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