![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 1:15:09
In reply to Re: Tried everything for insomnia - nothing works.... » KaraS, posted by jerrympls on August 2, 2004, at 23:23:58
Yes, you can get tryptophan in the U.S. Some doctors offices sell it - generally the more holistic doctors. Also, you can order it from abroad legally without a script or you can order it from veterinary supply places. Larry Hoover mentions a vet supply place that he orders from in one of his posts. It's really a good product because as he put it "no one gives cheap crap to very expensive horses". If you're interested, do a search here.
Posted by SLS on August 3, 2004, at 6:02:48
In reply to Sinequan or Surmontil?, posted by Sad Panda on August 2, 2004, at 22:55:54
> I'm not sure that Barbs should be considered anymore, I think a high doseage of Benzos is just as sedating without respiratory depression.
You are absolutely right - as long as it works.
Because my history demonstrates such a lack of success using the more routine treatments, I'm a little more apt to consider as viable tools drugs that have fallen out of favor simply because they have to be administered more carefully - MAOIs for example. I would hate to see barbiturates vanish. I'm sure there are some people who still need them. There is one poster here in particular who seems to thrive on them. He appears to me to be a reliable and responsible reporter. I can't, however, produce him for scrutiny, of course.
- Scott
Posted by Sad Panda on August 3, 2004, at 7:36:16
In reply to Re: Sinequan or Surmontil?, posted by SLS on August 3, 2004, at 6:02:48
> > I'm not sure that Barbs should be considered anymore, I think a high doseage of Benzos is just as sedating without respiratory depression.
>
> You are absolutely right - as long as it works.
>
> Because my history demonstrates such a lack of success using the more routine treatments, I'm a little more apt to consider as viable tools drugs that have fallen out of favor simply because they have to be administered more carefully - MAOIs for example. I would hate to see barbiturates vanish. I'm sure there are some people who still need them. There is one poster here in particular who seems to thrive on them. He appears to me to be a reliable and responsible reporter. I can't, however, produce him for scrutiny, of course.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Hi Scott,
My understanding of barbiturates is that they are so dangerous that you really can't give a months supply to a person who is depressed. If I had a bottle of them 12 months ago, I would have swallowed the lot in one go. Am I being Barbophobic? or do they really have a legitimate useage still?
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by SLS on August 3, 2004, at 11:58:38
In reply to Benzos v Barbs. » SLS, posted by Sad Panda on August 3, 2004, at 7:36:16
> My understanding of barbiturates is that they are so dangerous that you really can't give a months supply to a person who is depressed. If I had a bottle of them 12 months ago, I would have swallowed the lot in one go. Am I being Barbophobic? or do they really have a legitimate useage still?
I really don't know enough about all of the aspects of this issue to offer a debate, although it certainly deserves one. The most practical place to start is to list the barbiturates that we currently still need. I think phenobarbital would qualify.
- Scott
Posted by Racer on August 3, 2004, at 12:00:22
In reply to Benzos v Barbs. » SLS, posted by Sad Panda on August 3, 2004, at 7:36:16
Just as a knee jerk reaction, I'd say that they do still have a good use -- but only in people who don't really need them ;-) You know, people who are not depressed enough to take the whole bottle in one go.
I'm guessing insomnia is one of the more common symptoms of mood disorders, and I know that it's a big problem for me. Believe it or not, the Provigil seems to be helping regulate my sleep patterns better than anything else ever has, with fewer side effects, etc. Then again, I'm weird -- ask anyone.
The other thing that has helped a lot, though, is the whole low-tech behavioral routine: no caffeine after whatever time, resist napping during the afternoon, some sort of regular exercise, etc. I can't say it's as easy as meds, and I certainly won't tell you it's anywhere near as reliable, but it really seems to be working for me as well as anything else has overall. ("Overall" is a relative term here: I'm sleeping at least five or six hours virtually every night, so not necessarily as many hours as I really need, but at least it's consistently close enough for government work; and even if I'm tired the next day, I'm not feeling doped up and groggy -- just tired. For me, that's an improvement, but for someone else, it might not be.)
Since this was a drug question, I'll add that Xanax has always worked for me at high enough doses, so I have nothing to base any recommendations on. Except, of course, that the Provigil really seems to help regulate my circadian rhythms. If the sleeping meds themselves aren't working out, maybe a waking med in the day might be worth a try?
Posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 14:21:09
In reply to Benzos v Barbs. » SLS, posted by Sad Panda on August 3, 2004, at 7:36:16
> > > I'm not sure that Barbs should be considered anymore, I think a high doseage of Benzos is just as sedating without respiratory depression.
> >
> > You are absolutely right - as long as it works.
> >
> > Because my history demonstrates such a lack of success using the more routine treatments, I'm a little more apt to consider as viable tools drugs that have fallen out of favor simply because they have to be administered more carefully - MAOIs for example. I would hate to see barbiturates vanish. I'm sure there are some people who still need them. There is one poster here in particular who seems to thrive on them. He appears to me to be a reliable and responsible reporter. I can't, however, produce him for scrutiny, of course.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
> >
>
> Hi Scott,
>
> My understanding of barbiturates is that they are so dangerous that you really can't give a months supply to a person who is depressed. If I had a bottle of them 12 months ago, I would have swallowed the lot in one go. Am I being Barbophobic? or do they really have a legitimate useage still?
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>Panda,
Benzos, or any psychotropic meds for that matter, would be extremely dangerous if you took the whole bottle. Why are barbs any different here?Kara
Posted by Sad Panda on August 4, 2004, at 1:50:08
In reply to Re: Benzos v Barbs. » Sad Panda, posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 14:21:09
> > > > I'm not sure that Barbs should be considered anymore, I think a high doseage of Benzos is just as sedating without respiratory depression.
> > >
> > > You are absolutely right - as long as it works.
> > >
> > > Because my history demonstrates such a lack of success using the more routine treatments, I'm a little more apt to consider as viable tools drugs that have fallen out of favor simply because they have to be administered more carefully - MAOIs for example. I would hate to see barbiturates vanish. I'm sure there are some people who still need them. There is one poster here in particular who seems to thrive on them. He appears to me to be a reliable and responsible reporter. I can't, however, produce him for scrutiny, of course.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> > My understanding of barbiturates is that they are so dangerous that you really can't give a months supply to a person who is depressed. If I had a bottle of them 12 months ago, I would have swallowed the lot in one go. Am I being Barbophobic? or do they really have a legitimate useage still?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Panda.
> >
>
> Panda,
> Benzos, or any psychotropic meds for that matter, would be extremely dangerous if you took the whole bottle. Why are barbs any different here?
>
> Kara
>
>I pretty sure, but not certain that you can take a 1 month supply of Benzos & survive, while less that two weeks worth on Babiturates will kill you. Both groups do essentially the same thing, except, the Barbiturates depress the breathing centre of the brain stem much more severely & have a drastically lower therapeutic index.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 3:37:00
In reply to Re: Benzos v Barbs., posted by Sad Panda on August 4, 2004, at 1:50:08
> > > > > I'm not sure that Barbs should be considered anymore, I think a high doseage of Benzos is just as sedating without respiratory depression.
> > > >
> > > > You are absolutely right - as long as it works.
> > > >
> > > > Because my history demonstrates such a lack of success using the more routine treatments, I'm a little more apt to consider as viable tools drugs that have fallen out of favor simply because they have to be administered more carefully - MAOIs for example. I would hate to see barbiturates vanish. I'm sure there are some people who still need them. There is one poster here in particular who seems to thrive on them. He appears to me to be a reliable and responsible reporter. I can't, however, produce him for scrutiny, of course.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Scott,
> > >
> > > My understanding of barbiturates is that they are so dangerous that you really can't give a months supply to a person who is depressed. If I had a bottle of them 12 months ago, I would have swallowed the lot in one go. Am I being Barbophobic? or do they really have a legitimate useage still?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Panda.
> > >
> >
> > Panda,
> > Benzos, or any psychotropic meds for that matter, would be extremely dangerous if you took the whole bottle. Why are barbs any different here?
> >
> > Kara
> >
> >
>
> I pretty sure, but not certain that you can take a 1 month supply of Benzos & survive, while less that two weeks worth on Babiturates will kill you. Both groups do essentially the same thing, except, the Barbiturates depress the breathing centre of the brain stem much more severely & have a drastically lower therapeutic index.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>
>
>Panda,
I meant to ask you in a previous post why you prefer to stay away from dopaminergic meds? Why do you personally feel that they may be unsafe?
Kara
Posted by Sad Panda on August 4, 2004, at 23:20:02
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics? » Sad Panda, posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 3:37:00
>
> Panda,
> I meant to ask you in a previous post why you prefer to stay away from dopaminergic meds? Why do you personally feel that they may be unsafe?
> Kara
>
>Hi Kara,
Altering dopamine levels can lead to problems like Parkinsons & Psychosis. Altering 5-HT & NE doesn't seem to lead to any long term problems. The only Dopamine drugs I would use are the MAOI's. Other dopaminergics should be left to diseases that actually require it like ADD & even then ADDers seem to prefer there drugs to be skewed towards NE.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 2:28:13
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics? » KaraS, posted by Sad Panda on August 4, 2004, at 23:20:02
> >
> > Panda,
> > I meant to ask you in a previous post why you prefer to stay away from dopaminergic meds? Why do you personally feel that they may be unsafe?
> > Kara
> >
> >
>
> Hi Kara,
>
> Altering dopamine levels can lead to problems like Parkinsons & Psychosis. Altering 5-HT & NE doesn't seem to lead to any long term problems. The only Dopamine drugs I would use are the MAOI's. Other dopaminergics should be left to diseases that actually require it like ADD & even then ADDers seem to prefer there drugs to be skewed towards NE.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>But it's the loss of dopamine neurons (not reuptake inhibition) that causes Parkinsons and it's an excessive amount of dopamine that causes psychosis, so doesn't that leave plenty of room for a therapeutic window?
Also, wouldn't you include selegiline in with your safe group? It is neuroprotective in that it may help slow the process of dopamine neuronal death that occurs as we age. (Maybe you were including it when you said MAOIs?)
Posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 2:48:21
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 2:28:13
> > >
> > > Panda,
> > > I meant to ask you in a previous post why you prefer to stay away from dopaminergic meds? Why do you personally feel that they may be unsafe?
> > > Kara
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Hi Kara,
> >
> > Altering dopamine levels can lead to problems like Parkinsons & Psychosis. Altering 5-HT & NE doesn't seem to lead to any long term problems. The only Dopamine drugs I would use are the MAOI's. Other dopaminergics should be left to diseases that actually require it like ADD & even then ADDers seem to prefer there drugs to be skewed towards NE.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Panda.
> >
>
> But it's the loss of dopamine neurons (not reuptake inhibition) that causes Parkinsons and it's an excessive amount of dopamine that causes psychosis, so doesn't that leave plenty of room for a therapeutic window?
>
> Also, wouldn't you include selegiline in with your safe group? It is neuroprotective in that it may help slow the process of dopamine neuronal death that occurs as we age. (Maybe you were including it when you said MAOIs?)
In addition, too much serotonin can lead to serotonin syndrome and too much NE can lead to racing heartbeat and dangerously high blood pressure. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't use meds to adjust serotonin or NE...
Posted by linkadge on August 5, 2004, at 17:21:42
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 2:48:21
I have no problem with dopimanergics. I do think, however, they can induce very *deep* moods. If you are very apathetic then dopimanergics might help. If, however you are in deep melancholy then dopimanergics can make the mood even deeper.
One other thing to consider. Some people have what I call "religious depression" where they often feel very guilty, like they have committed an unfogivable sin or something like this. This is a branch of psychotic depression and these people should avoid dopimanergics as they often make the thinking much worse.
Linkadge
Posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 22:17:28
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by linkadge on August 5, 2004, at 17:21:42
> I have no problem with dopimanergics. I do think, however, they can induce very *deep* moods. If you are very apathetic then dopimanergics might help. If, however you are in deep melancholy then dopimanergics can make the mood even deeper.
>
> One other thing to consider. Some people have what I call "religious depression" where they often feel very guilty, like they have committed an unfogivable sin or something like this. This is a branch of psychotic depression and these people should avoid dopimanergics as they often make the thinking much worse.
>
>
> LinkadgeGood to know. I am of the anergic, apathetic variety so I don't think that dopaminergics are contraindicated for me. Despite Panda's depth of knowledge and my respect for his opinions, I am not yet convinced yet that I should stay away from them in the future.
-K
Posted by Sad Panda on August 5, 2004, at 23:06:10
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 22:17:28
>
> Good to know. I am of the anergic, apathetic variety so I don't think that dopaminergics are contraindicated for me. Despite Panda's depth of knowledge and my respect for his opinions, I am not yet convinced yet that I should stay away from them in the future.
>
> -K
>Hi Kara,
If you were to lay face down in a bath tub full of my knowledge, you would have no risk of drowning. :)
I think increasing dopamine levels is overrated for depression & also more risky. When you raise neurotransmitter levels you get receptors downregulating in an attempt to balance out the excess which in effect means less receptors. I don't know, but I would suspect that some many never come back & since Parkinson's & Psychosis are the kind of things that happen when the dopamine system goes wrong, then it's something that I wish to avoid.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Sad Panda on August 5, 2004, at 23:08:13
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by KaraS on August 5, 2004, at 2:48:21
>
> In addition, too much serotonin can lead to serotonin syndrome and too much NE can lead to racing heartbeat and dangerously high blood pressure. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't use meds to adjust serotonin or NE...
>
>They are both temporary problems & curable.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by KaraS on August 6, 2004, at 0:01:00
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics? » KaraS, posted by Sad Panda on August 5, 2004, at 23:06:10
> >
> > Good to know. I am of the anergic, apathetic variety so I don't think that dopaminergics are contraindicated for me. Despite Panda's depth of knowledge and my respect for his opinions, I am not yet convinced yet that I should stay away from them in the future.
> >
> > -K
> >
>
> Hi Kara,
>
> If you were to lay face down in a bath tub full of my knowledge, you would have no risk of drowning. :)
>
> I think increasing dopamine levels is overrated for depression & also more risky. When you raise neurotransmitter levels you get receptors downregulating in an attempt to balance out the excess which in effect means less receptors. I don't know, but I would suspect that some many never come back & since Parkinson's & Psychosis are the kind of things that happen when the dopamine system goes wrong, then it's something that I wish to avoid.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>
>
Panda,
You are way too modest!
Kara
Posted by linkadge on August 6, 2004, at 7:45:56
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by KaraS on August 6, 2004, at 0:01:00
I think that SSRI/SNRI meds do totally and permantently screw up the serotogenic and norepinephrine system. I just don't think we have a name for what sorts of things the SSRI/SNRI's do.
For instance.
1) I am addicted to SSRI's for life
2) I have headaches since taking them
and worse ones if I ever stop
3) I am probabllt in a permanent state of kinling.
4) I believe they have destroyed my short
term memory.
5) Going off of them makes me psychotic
altering serotonin can profoundly alters
dopamine function.
6) My head twiches every two seconds
7) I believe they have destroyed my short
term memory.
8) I have facial grimmaces and shoulder
movements that appeared months after
starting celexa and get worse if I stop them.
9) Some report that serogenic drugs may dammage the heart in the same way that fenfluramine did.
In my oppinion
I don't think that messing with dopamine is any more risky than messing with serotonin. I am a beleiver that SSRI's can permantly alter serotonin receptor function and can lead to equally devastating side effects. I've heard reports that SSRI's which generally depleate dopamine can cause just as profound changes in the dopaminergic system than do neuroleptics.
A lawsuit was won the other day with a lady suffering apparent permanant distonic/dyskinsic movements from prozac use.Plus you alter dopamine levels every time you have a cup of coffee :)
I say: try what you think will work.
Linkadge
Posted by KaraS on August 6, 2004, at 8:34:34
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by linkadge on August 6, 2004, at 7:45:56
> I think that SSRI/SNRI meds do totally and permantently screw up the serotogenic and norepinephrine system. I just don't think we have a name for what sorts of things the SSRI/SNRI's do.
>
> For instance.
>
> 1) I am addicted to SSRI's for life
> 2) I have headaches since taking them
> and worse ones if I ever stop
> 3) I am probabllt in a permanent state of kinling.
> 4) I believe they have destroyed my short
> term memory.
> 5) Going off of them makes me psychotic
> altering serotonin can profoundly alters
> dopamine function.
> 6) My head twiches every two seconds
> 7) I believe they have destroyed my short
> term memory.
> 8) I have facial grimmaces and shoulder
> movements that appeared months after
> starting celexa and get worse if I stop them.
> 9) Some report that serogenic drugs may dammage the heart in the same way that fenfluramine did.
>
>
> In my oppinion
> I don't think that messing with dopamine is any more risky than messing with serotonin. I am a beleiver that SSRI's can permantly alter serotonin receptor function and can lead to equally devastating side effects. I've heard reports that SSRI's which generally depleate dopamine can cause just as profound changes in the dopaminergic system than do neuroleptics.
> A lawsuit was won the other day with a lady suffering apparent permanant distonic/dyskinsic movements from prozac use.
>
> Plus you alter dopamine levels every time you have a cup of coffee :)
>
> I say: try what you think will work.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>So you weren't kidding on the alternate board when you said that you think you have brain damage from all of the meds you've taken...
Now you've got me wondering whether my anergic/low dopamine symptoms are a result of long-term Effexor use.
Posted by zeugma on August 6, 2004, at 9:35:07
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics? » linkadge, posted by KaraS on August 6, 2004, at 8:34:34
So you weren't kidding on the alternate board when you said that you think you have brain damage from all of the meds you've taken...
Now you've got me wondering whether my anergic/low dopamine symptoms are a result of long-term Effexor use.
Kara,
What sort of symptoms led you to take Effexor in the first place? No anergia or apathy?
Linkadge,
What sort of reaction do you have to caffeine? Caffeine has been shown to be neuroprotective, probably because of the indirect dopamine stimulation. Another possibility is provigil, which is also neuroprotective. I read parts of Glenmullen's book and though he exaggerates there is a very real possibilty of dystonias and other Parkinson's-like symptoms on SSRI's. But I think that the potential for neurological damage on SSRI's might depend on the nature of the dysfunction you are treating.
For example, I read a study in which fluoxetine attenuated cocaine-induced positive responding in rats, suggesting that fluoxetine interfered with dopaminergic-mediated responses. But in rats that suffered from an animal model of depression, fluoxetine had an opposite effect. the authors of the study concluded that fluoxetine's effects on dopamine were at least partially dependent on the 'hedonic set-point' of the animal.
I read the post that Kara referred to on the alternate board where you said you had brain damage. I think that this is a symptom of depression interfering with self-perception. A lot of times I feel like I damaged my brain from avoiding meds for many years.
-z
Posted by KaraS on August 6, 2004, at 22:30:58
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by zeugma on August 6, 2004, at 9:35:07
> So you weren't kidding on the alternate board when you said that you think you have brain damage from all of the meds you've taken...
>
> Now you've got me wondering whether my anergic/low dopamine symptoms are a result of long-term Effexor use.
>
> Kara,
>
> What sort of symptoms led you to take Effexor in the first place? No anergia or apathy?
>
> Linkadge,
>
> What sort of reaction do you have to caffeine? Caffeine has been shown to be neuroprotective, probably because of the indirect dopamine stimulation. Another possibility is provigil, which is also neuroprotective. I read parts of Glenmullen's book and though he exaggerates there is a very real possibilty of dystonias and other Parkinson's-like symptoms on SSRI's. But I think that the potential for neurological damage on SSRI's might depend on the nature of the dysfunction you are treating.
>
> For example, I read a study in which fluoxetine attenuated cocaine-induced positive responding in rats, suggesting that fluoxetine interfered with dopaminergic-mediated responses. But in rats that suffered from an animal model of depression, fluoxetine had an opposite effect. the authors of the study concluded that fluoxetine's effects on dopamine were at least partially dependent on the 'hedonic set-point' of the animal.
>
> I read the post that Kara referred to on the alternate board where you said you had brain damage. I think that this is a symptom of depression interfering with self-perception. A lot of times I feel like I damaged my brain from avoiding meds for many years.
>
> -z
True, there was some apathy and anergia to begin with - though not nearly as much as there is now. I don't really think that the Effexor is the cause.
Posted by linkadge on August 7, 2004, at 8:21:25
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics? » zeugma, posted by KaraS on August 6, 2004, at 22:30:58
That is what most people say, you are depressed and this is why you think you are brain dammaged.
The first thing is the dystonia/dyskinsia. I have what appears to be permanant invaulentary movememts in various locations on my body that both I, and my family notes started about 5 months after starting SSRI's. After reducing/eliminating the dose, most of the syptoms remained unchanged, and some actually got worse which is generally a hallmark of some type of permanent dyskinsia from psychotropics.
I have developed a doctor recognised tremor (I am only 21) which is completeltly unreleated to anxiety, and worsens after discontinuation (or dose increase) I also have vision problems (eye movement) which arose after initiation of tretment etc etc.
Sure I suppose it could all be conicidental, but after doing some extensive reading people who had severe movement dysorders presumably linked ot SSRI's, I have come to accept that my hand, eye and body dyskinsias are much more common than drug companies care to admit.
But as long as I continue to take them, I am not terribly bitter about it all.
Linkadge
Posted by KaraS on August 7, 2004, at 14:40:36
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by linkadge on August 7, 2004, at 8:21:25
> That is what most people say, you are depressed and this is why you think you are brain dammaged.
>
> The first thing is the dystonia/dyskinsia. I have what appears to be permanant invaulentary movememts in various locations on my body that both I, and my family notes started about 5 months after starting SSRI's. After reducing/eliminating the dose, most of the syptoms remained unchanged, and some actually got worse which is generally a hallmark of some type of permanent dyskinsia from psychotropics.
>
> I have developed a doctor recognised tremor (I am only 21) which is completeltly unreleated to anxiety, and worsens after discontinuation (or dose increase) I also have vision problems (eye movement) which arose after initiation of tretment etc etc.
>
> Sure I suppose it could all be conicidental, but after doing some extensive reading people who had severe movement dysorders presumably linked ot SSRI's, I have come to accept that my hand, eye and body dyskinsias are much more common than drug companies care to admit.
>
> But as long as I continue to take them, I am not terribly bitter about it all.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>Linkadge,
How long have you gone without being on an SSRI? Since some of them have long half-lives, you could still have some symptoms even if you're not taking any medication for a while. You have probably considered this already though I thought I'd bring it up just to make sure. I developed a tremor while taking Prozac though it did go away when I stopped the medication. I realize that this is not necessarily your situation. Also, have you had a thorough physical to rule out any other type of condition that might be causing your symptoms?-K
Posted by linkadge on August 7, 2004, at 16:39:09
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics? » linkadge, posted by KaraS on August 7, 2004, at 14:40:36
I have been completely off of SSRI's for 4-5 months at a time. The tremor worsens for about 3 weeks after stopping, and then stays that way for a while. When I resume the AD 5 months later the symptoms subside somewhat. It could be someting else, but it seems this is just my experience and my intuition.
Linkadge
Posted by KaraS on August 7, 2004, at 17:16:45
In reply to Re: Why stay away from dopaminergics?, posted by linkadge on August 7, 2004, at 16:39:09
> I have been completely off of SSRI's for 4-5 months at a time. The tremor worsens for about 3 weeks after stopping, and then stays that way for a while. When I resume the AD 5 months later the symptoms subside somewhat. It could be someting else, but it seems this is just my experience and my intuition.
>
> Linkadge
I'm sure you know your own body. I just wish something could help you with that symptom (besides more the SSRIs).-K
Posted by Waki on August 9, 2004, at 23:52:18
In reply to Tried everything for insomnia - nothing works...., posted by jerrympls on August 2, 2004, at 21:17:17
I had/have the same problem you have. I also tried every drug on the market.
I chart my sleep habits everyday. Hours slept total per day, amount and duration of naps, amount of times I wake up at night. Duration of the times I wake up. Amount of time it takes me to fall a sleep. Amount of time earlier I wake up before I am supposed.
It was not uncommon for me to be up 40 hours straight.
I ended up solving 80% of the problem on my own. Well not just me. I spend time every day talking to very old people who lived during the depression. It's amazing what these people know! Their advise really works!
I eliminated refined sugar, fried foods, high fat foods, alcohol, high frustose, and caffeen from my diet. If you smoke, quit.
I replaced them with good clean natural food. If you don't know what to eat, pretend you live on a farm and only buy food that you would grow or raise. I drink over a gallon of water a day and eat fruit through out the entire day.
My meals have decreased in size but increased in meals. IE: went from 2 large meals a day to 10 very small meals per day. I work my butt off in the gym or outside. I restrain from a nap during the day.
The result:
At night I am tired as a one man farm worker on a 10,0000 acre ranch and sleep like a new born baby.Without this sleep I would become severely depressed and fatigued about every 4 days for a duration of about 3 days.
Believe me, medication has saved my life. However, I also believe the person being medicated needs to help the process.
If you are physically tired, have no garbage & crap in your system, commit to a rigid sleep schedule. You will fall a sleep. It just takes hard work. I mean literally "hard work".
Good luck!
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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