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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by badmood on July 26, 2004, at 23:59:44
Riltilin is infamous for it, i also take adderall and felt zombied out, like I took shot of thorazine or something......
I heard low doses do this by slowing the impluses down, higher doses do the opposite by increasing impulses and dopamine firing, maybe this is what causes Euphoria. Is this True, ill have to go back and look up where i read it from....
Do ADHD have too MUCH dopamine firing?
Well if you dont know a clue to what i just wrote, nevermind it, just put what you know.
MATT
Posted by MattW84 on July 27, 2004, at 1:05:47
In reply to Why do ADHD meds cause a zombie effect?-sometimes-, posted by badmood on July 26, 2004, at 23:59:44
The thing about adderall and ritalin and other stimulants, is that their is no complete explanation for why they work and what exactly they do... It is generally believed that ADD is caused by a deficiency in dopamine. The idea is that the Basal ganglia is underactive and hence does not produce enough dopamine to "drive" the prefontal cortex. So stimulants then must increase dopamine production to counteract that. Perhaps the zombie effect is from over "stimulation" of the PF Cortex? Or tolerance to the stimulant?I haven't been able to find an answer to this one yet either, but I occasionally have the "zombie" effect. (adderall) Taking weekend holidays from the meds seems to help though.
That doesn't answer your question... but that's what i know... Post that link if you find it again!
Matt
Posted by pablo1 on July 28, 2004, at 13:30:30
In reply to Re: Why do ADHD meds cause a zombie effect?-sometimes-, posted by MattW84 on July 27, 2004, at 1:05:47
Great explanation! I'd just add that the zombie effect is from too high a dose and especially on hyper ADHD folks versus the non-hyper ones. I'd think the zombie effect is basically a little kid's way of saying "stoned". It also sounds like how SSRI people describe having their feelings removed but in this case it takes away their energy and life. Zombie sufferers are the ADD kids who say they don't like taking their meds because it makes them listless.
Oh and the way I'd explain the "too much dopamine" idea is no, it's not enough dopamine so the person has to compensate by becoming hyper to try to get excited. They may use other parts of their brain to do that or do silly/dangerous/disruptive/hyperfocusing things to get an adrenaline rush to pull them through so yes at that moment it's an excess of dopamine perhaps.
Posted by Kacy on July 29, 2004, at 18:09:28
In reply to Re: Why do ADHD meds cause a zombie effect?-someti » MattW84, posted by pablo1 on July 28, 2004, at 13:30:30
>…it's not enough dopamine so the person has to compensate by becoming hyper to try to get excited. They may use other parts of their brain to do that or do silly/dangerous/disruptive/hyperfocusing things to get an adrenaline rush to pull them through so yes at that moment it's an excess of dopamine perhaps.
Thanks, Pablo. I’ve never seen that information before. I have ADD-inattentive. Do you know anything about that?
Posted by pablo1 on July 29, 2004, at 19:22:47
In reply to and the inattentives, pablo 1?, posted by Kacy on July 29, 2004, at 18:09:28
I'm inattentive ADD (if ADD at all) though I'm not sleepy or particularly inactive, I'm definitely the daydreaming type. So my mind races, wanders or soars when it's bored. I multi-task for stimulation also... or hyperfocus/obsess but that's maybe another issue. I am impatient; if I'm not interested (at that point I'll daydream instead) and obsessive if it is interesting (or maybe obsessing to avoid things). If a conversation is boring, I'll think about something else (or a dozen other things)& then have no idea what was just said to me!
None of the meds I've tried seem to help me focus on the mundane tasks at hand except maybe marijuana but then I can't do serious thinking like balancing a checkbook, just boring physical tasks which are normally too tedious like cleaning. Well I guess the ritalin does that too and makes me obsessive and kind of stoned too. When I'm sober, I intermittantly feel spacey and kind of an unpleasant stoned feeling which is probably lurking anxiety, depression, emotional issues as best I can tell working with my shrink. Or maybe that's just the spacey feeling associated with ADD. I'm not sure.
Inattentive ADDers generally respond to the regular stimulants like ritalin just like the hyper types but less reliably. I never heard of a special med for inattentive type. It's a little more ambiguous and some experts say it's not even ADD but something else. Obviously it's less obnoxious so gets less attention. Maybe just a different personality response to the same condition though because women are much more likely to be inattentive type.
Another thing is that ADD thinking is in many ways identical to normal creative thinking. Instead of calm linear thinking the creative mind soars off in all directions looking for possibilities and unique connections. It's not easy to get along in the world of responsibilities when you are always trying to break things down and find new ways and people just want you do do your job and obey orders!
The ADDers I know who respond well to stimulants are able to calm down enough and feel less frazzled but still be creative, just without the frenzied (hyper) or aimless (inattentive) excesses. Some people get the zombie effect and feel robbed of their vitality and socially withdrawn. Some people get more socially withdrawn but feel OK with that.
Ack, stop me before I write a book here! I can feel my self induced adrenaline rush just from trying to put this all together. Thank goodness for cigarretes! Still feeling kinda different after coming off the effexor.
This is the end of the thread.
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