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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JayDee on June 26, 2004, at 0:41:43
Hey, new poster here.
I'm considering trying Nardil for SD and general anxiety. I consider my SD and anxiety to be fairly strong...I only recently found out that both are 'treatable' illnesses. since then I have done alot of research and all signs point to Nardil helping the specific symptoms(or used to?) that I commenly experience.
But I've read some conflicting reports that recently Nardil has been changed and its effictivness with SD has been reduced.
one says it was a 'bad batch' and has since been fixed, another: that the manufacturer has (permanently?) changed it.can anyone clarify the current state of Nardil for me???
if it has been changed, why? what alternatives are suggested? also can anything be done? (another manufacturer?)thanks!!!
Jon
Posted by King Vultan on June 26, 2004, at 12:14:54
In reply to Nardil, new formula???, posted by JayDee on June 26, 2004, at 0:41:43
Yes, the formula was changed in 2003. Pfizer ran into some difficulties making the traditional version and had to recall 19,013 bottles in September, 2002, because it was subpotent due to some kind of stability/shelf life problem. I believe it was in the fall of 2003 when they made the formulation change. The active ingredient, phenelzine sulfate, is identical, but a number of the "excipients", that is, the inert ingredients, were changed.
One would think this wouldn't matter too much, but unfortunately, it appears to have changed the manner in which the drug is absorbed for many people, causing a reduction in effectiveness. There are tons of anecdotes out there on this (I did a Google search on the web yesterday and put in Nardil Pfizer and the first one then came up had some informative ones), and people have complained both to Pfizer and the government. I'm not aware at this point of any intent by Pfizer to return to the original formula, particularly since the pills are now being made in France.
So how good is the stuff? It's still a very effective antidepressant and is particularly good on anxiety and social phobia. Just considering the antidepressant class, it probably still is the best one for social phobia, but that is just my opinion. I am taking 90 mg/day, which is the traditonal maximum dose, and have found it to be clearly superior to any other med I've tried (about 10) for social phobia. However, it seems that I may not be at the optimum therapeutic level, but rather, right on the edge of it, and I've made an appointment with my pdoc to inquire about going up to 105 mg/day, which I am sure he will let me do. I've seen one person who has looked into this estimate that the new version is perhaps only 60-70% as effective as the old, and it also seems like more people are going up to 120 mg/day. In my mind, perhaps 120 should be tentatively considered as a new maximum, but my opinion may change on that depending on how I do at 105.
Todd
Posted by JayDee on June 26, 2004, at 18:16:58
In reply to Re: Nardil, new formula???, posted by King Vultan on June 26, 2004, at 12:14:54
Thank you for the info.
Please keep us updated on how you do on 105mg. ill be watching for your post.thanks!
Posted by psychodad on June 27, 2004, at 0:57:57
In reply to Nardil, new formula???, posted by JayDee on June 26, 2004, at 0:41:43
I've heard that the only people which really were affected by this change were those who have been on the old Nardil for a while before the sudden, no notification switcheroo. Everyone was like ahhhhh!!! what's happening to me!!! before they realized Nardil had changed. The way in which the body metabolized the drug affected the way the the active substance was dispersed therefore the body reacted to this change, and in this case negatively for many folks.
Many people who stuck with the change in formula for a couple months ended up getting back a large percentage of the effectiveness, again, so I've heard, but then I've read in other posts that it just isn't the same as before.
From what I understand if you are going to start taking Nardil (new formula) for the first time, now, the chances of you having a positive response to the drug are no different than if you were starting on the old Nardil. It is still a very effective AD and I would think worth a try.
I seriously considered Nardil but decided (was persuaded) to start an SSRI first, than that could be a next step. Was also told by the pdoc that Nardil is still a very effective AD.
Anyway, good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by JayDee on June 27, 2004, at 1:29:07
In reply to Re: Nardil, new formula???, posted by psychodad on June 27, 2004, at 0:57:57
> I've heard that the only people which really were affected by this change were those who have been on the old Nardil for a while before the sudden, no notification switcheroo. Everyone was like ahhhhh!!! what's happening to me!!! before they realized Nardil had changed. The way in which the body metabolized the drug affected the way the the active substance was dispersed therefore the body reacted to this change, and in this case negatively for many folks.
>
> Many people who stuck with the change in formula for a couple months ended up getting back a large percentage of the effectiveness, again, so I've heard, but then I've read in other posts that it just isn't the same as before.
>
> From what I understand if you are going to start taking Nardil (new formula) for the first time, now, the chances of you having a positive response to the drug are no different than if you were starting on the old Nardil. It is still a very effective AD and I would think worth a try.
>
> I seriously considered Nardil but decided (was persuaded) to start an SSRI first, than that could be a next step. Was also told by the pdoc that Nardil is still a very effective AD.
>
> Anyway, good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!that's good news! I had a feeling that this may be the case... however the fact that old-new nardil transitioners are increasing dosage to get similar effect still says something to me.
Ive actually stumbled on a formula for making my own Liquid Nardil... im considering trying that now.
Posted by psychodad on June 27, 2004, at 20:03:48
In reply to Re: Nardil, new formula???, posted by JayDee on June 27, 2004, at 1:29:07
Yeah, just don't stick it in a needle.
Posted by greg rizzo on January 5, 2020, at 14:11:12
In reply to Nardil, new formula???, posted by JayDee on June 26, 2004, at 0:41:43
Anybody know formula and percentage of each excipient in old nardil?
Thanks!! Greg
Posted by MightyKondrian on February 19, 2020, at 20:54:07
In reply to Re: Nardil, new formula???, posted by King Vultan on June 26, 2004, at 12:14:54
That was a long time ago.
I'd like to add that near the end of last year, I was FORCED off of Nardil!
I was actually waiting for my doc to agree to get me back on Marplan (isocarboxazid) but I never thought that the stock of Nardil would run out.here in the UK our Nardil was coming from China. Then the supply completely stopped. Why? Ell knows.
Man, I was ill! Stopping an MAOI cold turkey ain't fun.
Well, I'm back on Marplan, along with dex, clonazepam, quetiapine, amitriptyline & bupropion.
But it has been difficult.First post for a looong time. I'm back! :D
Posted by MightyKondrian on February 19, 2020, at 20:57:23
In reply to Re: Nardil, new formula???, posted by greg rizzo on January 5, 2020, at 14:11:12
> Anybody know formula and percentage of each excipient in old nardil?
> Thanks!! GregWhatever it is, the old Nardil needs refrigeration.
This is the end of the thread.
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