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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cherylann on May 2, 2004, at 19:27:07
I was doing ok on remeron then read something about fish oil. After a couple days of adding it to my daily remeron, I noticed a huge improvement. No anxiety, no depression, happy, upbeat. Then I thought "Hey, I probably don't need the remeron anymore and I'll just take fish oil!". Add to that I started reading Depression is a Choice, and thought I had all the answers.
Well, after tapering off the remeron, panic attacks just suddenly popped up outa nowhere and sleep became almost impossible (unless I was driving, then I could barely keep my eyes open).
I decided to add 1 mg of klonopin. That worked great! Then it stopped working and I didn't want to keep upping my dose.
Now the doc's trying me on zoloft and doxepin at night. The zoloft is making me feel kinda crazy and I'm giving it one more week.
I'm so afraid that if I go back on the remeron it's not going to work again like it used to, and there's really nothing else that has worked for me (I've only had success with sedating AD's)
I think I made a horrible mistake!
Posted by Civ on May 2, 2004, at 19:32:43
In reply to Oh, what have I done?!, posted by cherylann on May 2, 2004, at 19:27:07
Maybe you really don't need the Remeron. If you discontinued it so quickly, your symptoms will obviously be more severe. If you try a gradual taper, perhaps you'll feel better. Or just stay on it if it's not bothersome to you and continue to take the fish oil. You may be able to lower your dose a bit and there's certainly good.
Posted by chemist on May 3, 2004, at 1:51:29
In reply to Oh, what have I done?!, posted by cherylann on May 2, 2004, at 19:27:07
> I was doing ok on remeron then read something about fish oil. After a couple days of adding it to my daily remeron, I noticed a huge improvement. No anxiety, no depression, happy, upbeat. Then I thought "Hey, I probably don't need the remeron anymore and I'll just take fish oil!". Add to that I started reading Depression is a Choice, and thought I had all the answers.
> Well, after tapering off the remeron, panic attacks just suddenly popped up outa nowhere and sleep became almost impossible (unless I was driving, then I could barely keep my eyes open).
> I decided to add 1 mg of klonopin. That worked great! Then it stopped working and I didn't want to keep upping my dose.
> Now the doc's trying me on zoloft and doxepin at night. The zoloft is making me feel kinda crazy and I'm giving it one more week.
> I'm so afraid that if I go back on the remeron it's not going to work again like it used to, and there's really nothing else that has worked for me (I've only had success with sedating AD's)
> I think I made a horrible mistake!cherylann, chemist here....don't beat yourself up over this.....first off, omega-3 fatty acids (in the correct ratio) are quite well documented for mood stabilizing properties (up to 18000 mg/day): i take 6000 mg/day, and it works - for me. as Civ notes, maybe remeron was not a good fit for you. sound to me like the problem is not so much modd-stabilization but GAD/panic attacks. as for klonopin having ``stopped working,'' give it some time, or go to a faster-acting as-needed benzo like ativan, valium, or xanax - and i do mean *as needed*. reevaluate your condition - perhaps with a second opinion? - and see if it makes you straight.......all the best, chemist
Posted by Escher Dementian on May 3, 2004, at 3:31:20
In reply to Oh, what have I done?!, posted by cherylann on May 2, 2004, at 19:27:07
You said "the zoloft is making you feel kinda crazy" ?
Isn't that one of the troubles with SSRIs if a person is BiPolar?
Posted by crazychickuk on May 3, 2004, at 5:56:36
In reply to Re: Oh, what have I done?!, posted by Escher Dementian on May 3, 2004, at 3:31:20
Hi, i have same prob as you, I started taking fish oil with my rem and i felt good, so i decided to stop my rem for a few days see how i got otn, well i was just panicky and feaking out it was awfull, BUT i took it again and i am ok again, remeron is different to other meds, i too can not take a nything else only sedating meds, i am also taking b vitamins...
YOu dont know till you try..
Thanks
Posted by cherylann on May 3, 2004, at 9:01:07
In reply to Re: Oh, what have I done?!, posted by Escher Dementian on May 3, 2004, at 3:31:20
I'm definitely not BP. My main problem seems to be severe depression with a side dish of panic.
When I say the zoloft makes me feel crazy, I mean in a "I feel really weird" kinda way. Almost like smoking pot (which I have not done since high school and never will again).
Thanks
Posted by cherylann on May 3, 2004, at 9:06:58
In reply to Re: Oh, what have I done?! » cherylann, posted by chemist on May 3, 2004, at 1:51:29
If I may ask, what kind of fish oil do you take and what is the ratio? I have a hard time finding good fish oil that has higher epa, which I've heard is the good stuff.
My main problem, besides the depression/anxiety, is that I cannot sleep. Klonopin works, but only for about a week, then I have to "up" the dose. Something I don't want to do. It's funny, though. When I take the klonopin at night, the next day I have very little depression, and a lot more drive to get things done. I didn't think klonopin itself could act as an AD.
Thanks for the advice!
Posted by chemist on May 3, 2004, at 17:58:56
In reply to Re: Oh, what have I done?! » chemist, posted by cherylann on May 3, 2004, at 9:06:58
> If I may ask, what kind of fish oil do you take and what is the ratio? I have a hard time finding good fish oil that has higher epa, which I've heard is the good stuff.
> My main problem, besides the depression/anxiety, is that I cannot sleep. Klonopin works, but only for about a week, then I have to "up" the dose. Something I don't want to do. It's funny, though. When I take the klonopin at night, the next day I have very little depression, and a lot more drive to get things done. I didn't think klonopin itself could act as an AD.
> Thanks for the advice!hello, chemist here...first off, sounds like when you take klonopin at night, the next day you have a bit of a hangover, if you will, so an approach might be to take it in divided doses, early in the day and in the early evening....now, about omega-3: i have read and been told (nutritionist and a friend who is a medicinal chemist) that the opimum ratio of EPA to DHA is 3:2. i want to make it clear that this is not something i follow extensively and have a few references if you need them. i also want to make it clear that i do not have any financial interest (or any other, for that matter) in recommending the following products by name. if you have the money, i believe that Carlson Labs. is the best; second-up would be Spectrum; and third is the one i take, Country Life. the reasoning for stating that one is ``better'' than the other is as follows: the best sources of DHA/EPA are from salmon and tuna, cold-water fish. now, heavy metals (lead, cadmium, mercury, to name a few) partition into the fatty parts of the fish if the pH of the environment (and a few other variables) is not particularly acidic, and fish oil from deep-dwelling fish OR those from places where the shallow aquatic environment will have less contamination, even though acidification during a rainfall event, for instance, might acicify the waters for a time (if the system is not buffered, i.e., not metamorphic/igneous rock vs. carbonates). back to the point: Carlson Labs tells you from whence their fish come - e.g., Norwegian salmon oil - as does Spectrum. Country Life does not, and is cheaper than the other two. the reason - i have been told - is that the cheaper alternatives use discarded parts of the fish and that the fish remains that are used come from different sources, so there might be some nasties lurking in there. then, there is the fact that if you buy an american-made supplement, it is not controlled by the FDA (the DSHEA does not come close to the toughness applied to prescription drugs), so you have to trust that your brand is a good one and performs QA/QC on their products. now, i do not know if this is true in norway, sweden, or anywhere else, for that matter, but Canada does regulate supplements in a manner similar to the FDA. that is why i purchase Natural Factors for MSM and other supplements, as Natural Factors is (one of many) companies based in Canada. sorry for the long story...in summary: i take 6000 mg/day of Country Life Omega-3 Fish Body Oils, with an EPA:DHA of 3:2 and have found it to be of help....all the best, chemist
Posted by MrSandman on May 4, 2004, at 2:02:52
In reply to Oh, what have I done?!, posted by cherylann on May 2, 2004, at 19:27:07
Cherylann:
Take heart.
Any experiment that yields a promising result can hardly be called a "horrible mistake", even if the result wasn't the monotherapy you were looking for. That's the way science goes.
Doctors routinely combine one antidepressant with another antidepressant or with a mood stabilizer, a strategy called "augmentation". They will also augment an antidepressant with fish oil (ratio of 3EPA:2DHA), a substance suggested by clinical evidence to have both antidepressant and mood stabilizing effects.
You might have stumbled upon a winner. I would consider the combination of fish oil and an antidepressant. You could add fish oil to the Zoloft right away. If that doesn't work, your best move might be the combo that seemed to work in your "experiment"-- EPA fish oil plus Remeron.
Good Luck,
Mr.S
Posted by cherylann on May 4, 2004, at 20:24:49
In reply to Antidepressant (e.g. Remeron ) PLUS EPA Fish Oil » cherylann, posted by MrSandman on May 4, 2004, at 2:02:52
This is the end of the thread.
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