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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on April 1, 2004, at 19:50:58
Ok, this is what has happened on my last 3 episodes of depression whilst on Nardil
1. Added Reboxetine to 60 Nardil- within 2 doses of Reboxetine I was squirming on my bed depressed. Cessation of Reboxetine brought relief with 2 days (i only had 2 doses of 4mg Reboxetine)
2. Adding Pindolol to 90mg Nardil- within 3 days I was once again very depressed and ceased Pindolo and lowered Nardil down to 60. I took 3 days worth Of Pindolol and relief was gained after 3 days after stopping it (and lowering Nardil to 60)
3. This is killing me right now. I was on DLPA for a week with Nardil at 60mg. Withing 4 days of raising Nardil to 90 (along with 1 and a half gram DLPA) a serious depression kicked in. It is yet to resolve. I have lowered Nardil to 60, and ceased DLPA. But I am very depressed at the moment.
Can anyone make sense of this? Too much of any particular neurotransmitter stimulation?
Help!
Ace.
Posted by snapper on April 1, 2004, at 21:40:19
In reply to Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again, posted by ace on April 1, 2004, at 19:50:58
Hey Ace, I have followed your posts for sometime now and I want to let you know I find them interesting and intriguing . I dont' want to come across harsh,but let me ask you a question ? Since most of your posts make it apparent that you are a pretty significant responder to Nardil-I mean from what I have read, this drug is the king of kings, for Social Phobia and Depression. I, like you am on a quest for a drug, or combination of drugs/and nutrients/supplements that will chase away the demons of depression away-however have you ever considered that just because you don't feel good everyday-that this may be normal, and that perfect remission might not be totally attainable?
Again, I do not want to come across as harsh or unsympathetic, but man if I was getting the kind of responses to an AD that most of your posts imply-I would be absolutley, without a dought, and fantastically happy as a flying pig!!!!
I know Nardil rules for you, but I hope you are at least under the care of a very competant p-doc,
with all the add ons' augmentations, and potentially risky interactions with the combo of meds can have with each other- esp. the maoi's!!! I gotta say you remain determined to feel the best you possibly can- but DUDE PLEASE BE CAREFUL!
Very Best Wishes
Snapper
Posted by ace on April 2, 2004, at 0:31:39
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again, posted by snapper on April 1, 2004, at 21:40:19
> Hey Ace, I have followed your posts for sometime now and I want to let you know I find them interesting and intriguing . I dont' want to come across harsh,but let me ask you a question ?
You don't sound harsh at all, and thankyou so much for caring.
Since most of your posts make it apparent that you are a pretty significant responder to Nardil-I mean from what I have read, this drug is the king of kings, for Social Phobia and Depression. I, like you am on a quest for a drug, or combination of drugs/and nutrients/supplements that will chase away the demons of depression away-however have you ever considered that just because you don't feel good everyday-that this may be normal, and that perfect remission might not be totally attainable?This is the thing. My first 3 months on Nardil were breathtaking. Depression 110% alleviated....i remember writing in my mood journals that i was feeling 'brilliant'. I was euphoric. But I had to be silly. I stopped Nardil to attain a greater anti-OCD response via Anafranil. When this failed, I went back to Nardil. After about a week it was breathtaking again. Then stopped. Then after 2 weeks, for a period of a month it was once again brilliant. After that it faded. at times it still works really well, but I am yearning, absolutely yearning for that euphoric effect. Thats why I have tried these add-ons.
But, unfortunately they havent helped. I am trying L-tryptophan 2 grams next, with Nardil at 60mg (once I have recovered from this depression now)
> Again, I do not want to come across as harsh or unsympathetic, but man if I was getting the kind of responses to an AD that most of your posts imply-I would be absolutley, without a dought, and fantastically happy as a flying pig!!!!
I admit, I am a greedy pig! But I so so yearn for that previous brilliance. Maybe one day I will just have to accept what I get. Right now, I just can't accept it.
> I know Nardil rules for you,It still does, but not as much as before.
but I hope you are at least under the care of a very competant p-doc,
No! I am being my own doctor. My doctor is my drug supplier (within limits)!
> with all the add ons' augmentations, and potentially risky interactions with the combo of meds can have with each other- esp. the maoi's!!! I gotta say you remain determined to feel the best you possibly can- but DUDE PLEASE BE CAREFUL!
> Very Best Wishes
> Snapper
>Thankyou Snapper for your kind and intelligent comments. Guys like you really help during the bad times. I really hope you achieve the most happiness possibel!
Ace
Posted by snapper on April 2, 2004, at 1:26:34
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again » snapper, posted by ace on April 2, 2004, at 0:31:39
Ace, I'm glad that you responded back to me. It helps to know that everyone is truly trying to help everyone-- I do have to ask this though---- Is it possible that Nardil made you - HYPO-MANIC-so to speak, for a period and then peetered out then you resumed it and it gave you AD effects but not that 110% response that you originally experienced.. I say this because I experienced this on doxepin , and parnate!! It was really not full blown mania -but God I felt great then crashed and have been pursuing that same feeling for along time now to no avail--I guess what I am looking for now is euthymia not depressed like I am now and not super hyped up!! I hope its' possible! let me know and keep in touch!
Clint
Posted by shadows721 on April 2, 2004, at 1:31:59
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again, posted by snapper on April 2, 2004, at 1:26:34
Ace,
Are you bipolar? It seems like you go high and then crash down. You may need a mood stabilizer.
Posted by Sad Panda on April 2, 2004, at 2:46:31
In reply to Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again, posted by ace on April 1, 2004, at 19:50:58
Hi Ace,
Please read this as constructive critisism, my opinion is that you don't try things for long enough. I think you need to be on a med combo for atleast 4 to 6 weeks before you can begin to pass judgement on it unless it makes suicidal or psychotic. When I have increased my Effexor dosage, the first week I am agitated & irritable & I take Valium to smooth it out. The second week I am very nearly in a state of hypomania, I am extremely happy & I am far too talkative. During the 3rd week things start to settle out. The point is, if I based my feelings about Effexor on the first or second weeks after a doseage increase, then, I would have chucked it in the bin along time ago.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by rod on April 2, 2004, at 3:52:29
In reply to Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again, posted by ace on April 1, 2004, at 19:50:58
> Ok, this is what has happened on my last 3 episodes of depression whilst on Nardil
>
> 1. Added Reboxetine to 60 Nardil- within 2 doses of Reboxetine I was squirming on my bed depressed. Cessation of Reboxetine brought relief with 2 days (i only had 2 doses of 4mg Reboxetine)
>
>
> 2. Adding Pindolol to 90mg Nardil- within 3 days I was once again very depressed and ceased Pindolo and lowered Nardil down to 60. I took 3 days worth Of Pindolol and relief was gained after 3 days after stopping it (and lowering Nardil to 60)
>
>
> 3. This is killing me right now. I was on DLPA for a week with Nardil at 60mg. Withing 4 days of raising Nardil to 90 (along with 1 and a half gram DLPA) a serious depression kicked in. It is yet to resolve. I have lowered Nardil to 60, and ceased DLPA. But I am very depressed at the moment.
>
>
> Can anyone make sense of this? Too much of any particular neurotransmitter stimulation?
>
>
> Help!
>
>
> Ace.Why do you lower the nardil to 60mg when you get depressed? Sounds strange to me. Like Scott once said, dont jojo your Nardil dose up and down all the time. This just messes up you brain IMO
Roland
Posted by gardenergirl on April 2, 2004, at 10:29:25
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again » ace, posted by rod on April 2, 2004, at 3:52:29
I have to admit, I got more depressed at 60 mg of Nardil, and then felt much better again when I lowered it to 45 mg. I don't know if I was feeling so lethargic due to sedating effects at times, or what, but I feel much better. No euphoria, but no depression as well.
Good luck, Ace!
gg
Posted by ace on April 2, 2004, at 23:11:37
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again, posted by snapper on April 2, 2004, at 1:26:34
> Ace, I'm glad that you responded back to me. It helps to know that everyone is truly trying to help everyone--
I agree bro! And thanks again to you for talking to me!
I do have to ask this though---- Is it possible that Nardil made you - HYPO-MANIC-so to speak, for a period and then peetered out then you resumed it and it gave you AD effects but not that 110% response that you originally experienced..
I know exactly what you mean, but NO! It was simply a breathtaking AD effect...and Im sure, a year and a bit later, it would still be here if I wasn't a pumpking head by stopping it!
I say this because I experienced this on doxepin ,hmmmm....doxepin + Nardil- you have given me an idea!!!!!!!
and parnate!! It was really not full blown mania -but God I felt great then crashed and have been pursuing that same feeling for along time now to no availIts so frustrating isn't it...it is like a baby losing its favourite toy!
--I guess what I am looking for now is euthymia not depressed like I am now and not super hyped up!! I hope its' possible! let me know and keep in touch!
> ClintClint, what you are looking for is 100% possible....tell me what your on now bro, and what you have tried...i'll throw in some ideas...
Cheers again man,
Ace.
PS- Im feeling better as the blood levels of Nardil lower- I am no longer in a fetal position in depression...
Posted by ace on April 2, 2004, at 23:16:33
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again, posted by shadows721 on April 2, 2004, at 1:31:59
> Ace,
>
> Are you bipolar? It seems like you go high and then crash down. You may need a mood stabilizer.No, Im not bi polar. Maybe a tiny bit, but nowhere near enough to warrant a diagnosis.
I have tried Lithium and will try some more stabilizers with my Nardil.
Thanks for the response mate,
Ace.
Posted by ace on April 2, 2004, at 23:22:52
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again » ace, posted by Sad Panda on April 2, 2004, at 2:46:31
> Hi Ace,
>
> Please read this as constructive critisism, my opinion is that you don't try things for long enough. I think you need to be on a med combo for atleast 4 to 6 weeks before you can begin to pass judgement on it unless it makes suicidal or psychotic. When I have increased my Effexor dosage, the first week I am agitated & irritable & I take Valium to smooth it out. The second week I am very nearly in a state of hypomania, I am extremely happy & I am far too talkative. During the 3rd week things start to settle out. The point is, if I based my feelings about Effexor on the first or second weeks after a doseage increase, then, I would have chucked it in the bin along time ago.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>Thanks heaps Panda. I usually try to wait it out. But this time I was on my bed in the fetal depression thinking of suicide. And I hate that feeling....but i know what you mean...and i agree, maybe i am not patient enough some times.
Thanks for the input buddy!
Ace.
Posted by ace on April 2, 2004, at 23:51:29
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again ?ace, posted by rod on April 2, 2004, at 3:52:29
> > Ok, this is what has happened on my last 3 episodes of depression whilst on Nardil
> >
> > 1. Added Reboxetine to 60 Nardil- within 2 doses of Reboxetine I was squirming on my bed depressed. Cessation of Reboxetine brought relief with 2 days (i only had 2 doses of 4mg Reboxetine)
> >
> >
> > 2. Adding Pindolol to 90mg Nardil- within 3 days I was once again very depressed and ceased Pindolo and lowered Nardil down to 60. I took 3 days worth Of Pindolol and relief was gained after 3 days after stopping it (and lowering Nardil to 60)
> >
> >
> > 3. This is killing me right now. I was on DLPA for a week with Nardil at 60mg. Withing 4 days of raising Nardil to 90 (along with 1 and a half gram DLPA) a serious depression kicked in. It is yet to resolve. I have lowered Nardil to 60, and ceased DLPA. But I am very depressed at the moment.
> >
> >
> > Can anyone make sense of this? Too much of any particular neurotransmitter stimulation?
> >
> >
> > Help!
> >
> >
> > Ace.
>
> Why do you lower the nardil to 60mg when you get depressed? Sounds strange to me. Like Scott once said, dont jojo your Nardil dose up and down all the time. This just messes up you brain IMO
>
>
> RolandMy depression correlates with an increased Nardil dose + concomitant medication...its like i put TOO MUCH stuff in their!
Within a few days of lowering it settles down
But when just Nardil MONOTHERAPY i can raise Nardil to 90mg no probs...Wierd!
Ace
Posted by ace on April 2, 2004, at 23:55:36
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again » rod, posted by gardenergirl on April 2, 2004, at 10:29:25
> I have to admit, I got more depressed at 60 mg of Nardil, and then felt much better again when I lowered it to 45 mg. I don't know if I was feeling so lethargic due to sedating effects at times, or what, but I feel much better. No euphoria, but no depression as well.
>
> Good luck, Ace!
>
> gg
Thanks to you mate!Ace.
Posted by linkadge on April 3, 2004, at 7:00:56
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again » gardenergirl, posted by ace on April 2, 2004, at 23:55:36
I tried a combination of DLPA and exercise (known to extend and enhance PEA activity). This made me *very* depressed. What people don't understand is that too much dopimanergic activity will make people feel depressed. It made me feel as if I'd entered a rhelm that I could't get out of. It made me feel that tests and exams were universally important. It made me feel very guilty and jealous (too much dopamine does this).
This is why antipsychotics help somtimes, because they reduce the dopamine load.
Anyhow, I would get 1mg of folic acid, and STICK WITH IT. This is my personal gold standard augmentaion stradegy that I have been preaching for the last 2 years. I don't can what other drug augmentation you choose, but take 1mg of folic acid daily.
Linkadge
Posted by nicky847 on April 3, 2004, at 17:53:43
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again » gardenergirl, posted by ace on April 2, 2004, at 23:55:36
Ace-
Although I am on Lexapro not Nardil I do follow your posts...just want to say that I really admire the way you always have a plan..that is the best way to manage anxiety/depression or any other problem..as long as we have hope that is really all we need..and you seem to have that in abundance..good luck to you!
nick> > I have to admit, I got more depressed at 60 mg of Nardil, and then felt much better again when I lowered it to 45 mg. I don't know if I was feeling so lethargic due to sedating effects at times, or what, but I feel much better. No euphoria, but no depression as well.
> >
> > Good luck, Ace!
> >
> > gg
>
>
> Thanks to you mate!
>
> Ace.
>
Posted by snapper on April 3, 2004, at 20:48:58
In reply to DLPA made me very depressed, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2004, at 7:00:56
> I tried a combination of DLPA and exercise (known to extend and enhance PEA activity). This made me *very* depressed. What people don't understand is that too much dopimanergic activity will make people feel depressed. It made me feel as if I'd entered a rhelm that I could't get out of. It made me feel that tests and exams were universally important. It made me feel very guilty and jealous (too much dopamine does this).
>
> This is why antipsychotics help somtimes, because they reduce the dopamine load.
>
> Anyhow, I would get 1mg of folic acid, and STICK WITH IT. This is my personal gold standard augmentaion stradegy that I have been preaching for the last 2 years. I don't can what other drug augmentation you choose, but take 1mg of folic acid daily.
>
>
> LinkadgeLinkadge, I know everybody is very different in their needs , but what is special about 1 mg of folic acid?
thanks
snapper
Posted by gardenergirl on April 3, 2004, at 21:20:47
In reply to DLPA made me very depressed, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2004, at 7:00:56
LOL,
I guess it pays to be a woman of childbearing age. My OB-GYN prescribes prenatal vitamins which include 1 mg folate acid in order to prevent spina bifida. I did notice that when I take it regularly now, (thanks to Nardil dosing sched. I need an alarm and a plan to sort everything out) I do generally feel better.gg
Posted by ace on April 3, 2004, at 23:08:31
In reply to DLPA made me very depressed, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2004, at 7:00:56
> I tried a combination of DLPA and exercise (known to extend and enhance PEA activity). This made me *very* depressed. What people don't understand is that too much dopimanergic activity will make people feel depressed. It made me feel as if I'd entered a rhelm that I could't get out of. It made me feel that tests and exams were universally important.
THIS IS VERY MUCH THE WAY I FELT!It made me feel very guilty and jealous (too much dopamine does this).
>
> This is why antipsychotics help somtimes, because they reduce the dopamine load.
>
> Anyhow, I would get 1mg of folic acid, and STICK WITH IT. This is my personal gold standard augmentaion stradegy that I have been preaching for the last 2 years. I don't can what other drug augmentation you choose, but take 1mg of folic acid daily.How soon does the folic acid kick in...and you notice a big difference??
>
>
> LinkadgeThanks bro!
Ace.
Posted by ace on April 3, 2004, at 23:10:44
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again, posted by nicky847 on April 3, 2004, at 17:53:43
> Ace-
> Although I am on Lexapro not Nardil I do follow your posts...just want to say that I really admire the way you always have a plan..that is the best way to manage anxiety/depression or any other problem..as long as we have hope that is really all we need..and you seem to have that in abundance..good luck to you!> nick
>Thanks for the kind comments Nick! I am almost obsessive with lucid medication plans. I am actually doing a degree in science with a view to being a psychiatrist! But, yeah, to a certain extent people have to take the initiative themselves and make some plans and stragedies...
Thanks again mate, take care!
Andrew (Ace)
Posted by ace on April 3, 2004, at 23:51:12
In reply to Re: DLPA made me very depressed » linkadge, posted by gardenergirl on April 3, 2004, at 21:20:47
Do you guys take the 1mg as a single dose or 500mcg twice daily or what???????
Ace.
PS- do you take it with anything else to help it pass the BB barrier?
Posted by linkadge on April 5, 2004, at 7:57:21
In reply to Re: FOLIC ACID 1mg question!!!!, posted by ace on April 3, 2004, at 23:51:12
Here in canada you can get 1mg tablets, but I think in the states the larges is 500 mg, so sure take it twice a day, or once a day (it has a fairly long half life so it probably doesn't matter too much)
Also, folic acid crosses the BBB well. I would just take it with juice or something.
I'd say that after two weeks you should see improvement. There are quite a few studies that
showed positive augmentation at about two weeks of use.Linkadge
Posted by nicky847 on April 5, 2004, at 10:58:57
In reply to Re: Help Needed Quick- Im depressed again » nicky847, posted by ace on April 3, 2004, at 23:10:44
Ace-
Hey you know what I know you switch meds alot but like i said before more power to you...anxiety/depression can only beat you if you feel like you are powerless over it..there are so many treatment options that none of us are truly powerless..just by laws of probability there is SOMETHING out there for everyone that can help..
nick> > Ace-
> > Although I am on Lexapro not Nardil I do follow your posts...just want to say that I really admire the way you always have a plan..that is the best way to manage anxiety/depression or any other problem..as long as we have hope that is really all we need..and you seem to have that in abundance..good luck to you!
>
> > nick
> >
>
> Thanks for the kind comments Nick! I am almost obsessive with lucid medication plans. I am actually doing a degree in science with a view to being a psychiatrist! But, yeah, to a certain extent people have to take the initiative themselves and make some plans and stragedies...
>
> Thanks again mate, take care!
>
> Andrew (Ace)
>
Posted by noa on April 5, 2004, at 13:53:14
In reply to Re: FOLIC ACID 1mg question!!!!, posted by linkadge on April 5, 2004, at 7:57:21
I take it in liquid form--ends up being a lot cheaper.
This is the end of the thread.
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